dont mess with Texas...

[delemorte]

I understand his standpoint but hes going to be very lucky if he does not spend the rest of his life in prison.
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2007/11/20/tuchman.houston.shooting.cnn

[topless]

I hope not. If there were more people like him, there would be less crime.

[topless]

You understand his viewpoint? The guy was looking to shoot somebody and he did. Good for him. He can go to the place where people go that are looking to kill somebody, prison. Game over, drive home safely.If they weren't burglarizing the house, he wouldn't have had to make that decision. I bet if they dropped the goods, he wouldn't have shot them either.

[Jbb]

Bang....Bang......

[topless]

Yeah, because prison and the death penalty have always been such great deterrents. :rolleyes: You know what's a deterrent to crime? Education. Don't roll your eyes at me mister.:sqeyes:

[delemorte]

i can understnad wanting to protect your neighborhood and your freinds. but no possessions are worth me having to answer to the police about me killing some bastards..
However it is noteworthy had they not been burglarizing a house they would not have found them selves in that situation.

[Sweet Addiction]

God Bless Texas.

[delemorte]

They were breaking into the house NEXT DOOR at 2PM. He went OUTSIDE to shoot them. It was approximately 1.7 seconds from the "Move, you're dead" until the first of three shots.
If you think vigilante justice is cool, than just say so. Don't try to convince an educated adult that they are wrong. I know right from wrong, this was blatantly wrong. It scares me that some people will never see that. THAT'S what wrong with our country.
Did you read the first part of my comment? i said no possiesions where worth what he did.... or is the educated adult just selective in what he reads?
damn my spelling suxs...

[ratso]

Shoot the thievin' bastards... kill em. This country has turned into a bunch of wimps that have no fukkin' rights! No property is worth it? Typical mindset! :rolleyes: Criminals should have no rights, except the right to be put to death!:mad:

[HM]

You know what's a deterrent to crime? Education.
It is a proven fact that everyone with an education has never committed a crime. Also, women's brains are 1/3 the size of man...it's science.

[topless]

They were breaking into the house NEXT DOOR at 2PM. He went OUTSIDE to shoot them. It was approximately 1.7 seconds from the "Move, you're dead" until the first of three shots.
If you think vigilante justice is cool, than just say so. Don't try to convince an educated adult that they are wrong. I know right from wrong, this was blatantly wrong. It scares me that some people will never see that. THAT'S what wrong with our country.
He said he wasn't going to let them get away with it and he didn't. I never said that what he did was right, I said that if there were more people like him, there wouldn't be as much crime. If people thought that they might be killed they might think twice. Now being as uneducated as I am, I'm sure you will be so kind as to correct me if I'm wrong.

[ratso]

That's a good point. However, I don't believe that even in the great state of Texas, death is the recommended punishment for residential burglary.
...unless your wife and children are home. I guess they need to rape and kill people first, so just keep slapping them on the wrist in the meantime...

[ratso]

Well, I guess Mr. Horn has nothing to worry about with a jury of his peers. Call us back when somebody shoots you because you stole their wife. ;)
I don't steal... just borrow.;)

[topless]

...unless your wife and children are home. I guess they need to rape and kill people first, so just keep slapping them on the wrist in the meantime...That's right, no wife is worth getting raped over.......or is that shot over?????

[delemorte]

I quoted Topless, not you. Your spelling doesn't suck so much as your ability to follow along. ;)
It's too bad that's your only consideration. Having to answer to the police. Have you ever looked down the barrel of a gun pointed at another human being and pulled the trigger?
And no i have never had the misfortune of ever having to kill someone. But as an armed ameican and as someone who carries every day of his life i have considered it and have taken the appropriate steps to ensure i will survive such an ecounter both physicly finacially and legally.. I dont know about mentally but we will see. I hope i never have to do that.
bottom line is he wa snot in any iminent danger so i dont think legally he had the right ot engage them.. he let his emotions over take him.. i hope he does not spend the rest of his days in jail.. but then again it is Texas.

[topless]

I stand corrected. You're right. People should just go around shooting anybody they think is committing a crime, justice system be damned. You know what I think is a crime? People with 15 items in the 12 item or less express lane at Ralph's. Do you really want me armed to the teeth and waiting for you outside the doors?
Joe Horn did not just THINK those guys were committing a crime, those guys WERE committing a crime and it's not against the law to have 15 items in a 12 item or less lane.

[topless]

Also, who gets to decide what crimes are shootable and which aren't? Obviously, residential burglary at your neighbor's house is one. How diligent should you be in your investigation? What if you see some shady looking guy coming out of the garage with a wheelbarrow full of stuff, like garden tools? Do you shoot them first or should you find out if maybe they're the gardeners? I'm just trying to get in line with the new program.
I don't think the gardeners would start running running away.

[ratso]

You're right, we should kill people before they have a chance to commit other, more serious crimes.
What was the name of the town in Arizona a few years back, I think August 18th??? Guy went on a shooting spree and killed 5 people, 2 of them cops. Plenty of warning signs... All I'm saying is if someone is breaking into my home, business, car... they are nothing but trash.Could I pull a trigger? Not too sure about that. I'd probably just whip their ass and then I'd be up on felony assault charges. The bad guys will keep winning if they have nothing top lose...

[ULTRA26 # 1]

They were breaking into the house NEXT DOOR at 2PM. He went OUTSIDE to shoot them. It was approximately 1.7 seconds from the "Move, you're dead" until the first of three shots.
If you think vigilante justice is cool, than just say so. Don't try to convince an educated adult that they are wrong. I know right from wrong, this was blatantly wrong. It scares me that some people will never see that. THAT'S what wrong with our country.
I agree completely. Judge, Jury and Executioner.

[ratso]

Well, I guess Mr. Horn has nothing to worry about with a jury of his peers. Call us back when somebody shoots you because you stole their wife. ;)
...also Bob, those are usually "inside jobs" and it takes two.

[HM]

when obviously her only intent was to squirrel away the info to use it against me three years later. :rolleyes:
Now look at who needs an education....dumbass. :D

[Run_em_Hard]

I would have to say that I have mixed feelings over this, as I bet many people do. I don't think that he should have ran out there and shot them the way he did. But confronting them and defending himself as needed is brave.
As bad as it sounds, these two men that were killed needed to be taken off the streets, maybe not killed but that was the risk that they took when they entered the house.
Also I can see how that man got frustrated waiting for the police. That was way too long.

[topless]

Wow, is that a veiled threat? That seems so beneath you.
I don't remember ever saying that I had not committed a crime in my life. I certainly don't run around burglarizing people's home or killing people.
If anybody would like to know what "crime" I committed, for which I was never charged, PM me and I'll gladly tell you all about it. I made the mistake of confiding in Ali, thinking she was offering support, when obviously her only intent was to squirrel away the info to use it against me three years later. :rolleyes:You posted it and if you are referring to something else, I have no clue what it is. Furthermore, you stated that eduatetion cuts crime, not ciminals being afraid of the consequenses of their actions. Nuff said and for the record, I deleted that statement but you were a little too quick to quote me.

[Jbb]

If you burst from your house with a shotgun pointed at me yelling "Move You're Dead!" you're gotdamned right I'd be running away. :D
For a few steps...anyway...

[HM]

She seemed so sincere at the time.
A woman that brings something up from the past to use against you....that is so novel!!!!!!! Let's hope that doesn't become the smo. :idea:

[Jbb]

Now look at who needs an education....dumbass. :D
:D :D

[ratso]

You're right. I'd shoot both of you. I would never leave a witness. ;)
I'm more of the "good riddance" type when it comes to cheating women... It's a lot better doing it to them than having it done to me, but then that's a whole nother thread.

[Tremor Therapy]

Also, who gets to decide what crimes are shootable and which aren't? Obviously, residential burglary at your neighbor's house is one. How diligent should you be in your investigation? What if you see some shady looking guy coming out of the garage with a wheelbarrow full of stuff, like garden tools? Do you shoot them first or should you find out if maybe they're the gardeners? I'm just trying to get in line with the new program.
While I see both sides of the argument, having spent all of my life in southern California, I can tell you that half of my neighbors have Mexican gardeners, and many of them speak almost no English. And without a doubt I will tell you that if someone came out with a gun pointed at them they would run like hell.
Now if I witnessed the same thing, you could bet your ass I would get my shotgun and head to my neighbors house to try and stop a burglary, but I don't know if I could shoot them. That is something I hope I never have to experience. But I will tell you, if you break into my house while me and my family are there....you are going to f*cking die! I am going to keep shooting until the clip is empty, then load in the second. Nobody is going to put my family in jeapardy, and I will sleep safe and sound knowing I put your ass 6 feet deep.

[Jbb]

Hey Bob..:D ...Dont messs with Texas...:p

[Jbb]

Texas can kick rocks and eat a dick. :D
:D

[ratso]

Yes, waiting on the police can be frustrating. I like to blow off a little steam by killing people while waiting. :D
lmao...:D

[Tremor Therapy]

That is what I was getting at Bob. While I can agree with the sentiment of everyone....good, 2 scumbags that will never steal again, based on my life exepriences I don't know that I would react that way.

[topless]

Texas can kick rocks and eat a dick. :D
Uh oh, you've done it now!:eek:

[ULTRA26 # 1]

While I see both sides of the argument, having spent all of my life in southern California, I can tell you that half of my neighbors have Mexican gardeners, and many of them speak almost no English. And without a doubt I will tell you that if someone came out with a gun pointed at them they would run like hell.
Now if I witnessed the same thing, you could bet your ass I would get my shotgun and head to my neighbors house to try and stop a burglary, but I don't know if I could shoot them. That is something I hope I never have to experience. But I will tell you, if you break into my house while me and my family are there....you are going to ****ing die! I am going to keep shooting until the clip is empty, then load in the second. Nobody is going to put my family in jeapardy, and I will sleep safe and sound knowing I put your ass 6 feet deep.
TT,
I don't think anyone I know of wouldn't fire at someone breaking into their own home. Shooting and killing a couple of burglars, at a neighbors, where there was no evidence of anything other a couple of assh*les taking some stuff was wrong, IMO. Earlier someone suggested that this guy wouldn't have fired had the burglars dropped the property. From the sound of the call, these two guys were going to get shot, no matter what they did or didn't do. Redneck rule. I don't buy it.

[topless]

TT,
I don't think anyone I know of wouldn't fire at someone breaking into their own home. Shooting and killing a couple of burglars, at a neighbors, where there was no evidence of anything other a couple of assh*les taking some stuff was wrong, IMO. Earlier someone suggested that this guy wouldn't have fired had the burglars dropped the property. From the sound of the call, these two guys were going to get shot, no matter what they did or didn't do. Redneck rule. I don't buy it.That was me who said that.:D

[Devilman]

But I will tell you, if you break into my house while me and my family are there....you are going to f*cking die! I am going to keep shooting until the clip is empty, then load in the second. Nobody is going to put my family in jeapardy, and I will sleep safe and sound knowing I put your ass 6 feet deep.
Click! (http://www.moviewavs.com/php/sounds/?id=gog&media=MP3S&type=Movies&movie=Big_Lebowski&quote=click.txt&file=click.mp3)
Your name's not Jesus, by chance.... is it? lol..... :D

[stoker22405]

Now thats one hell of a neighborhood watch system....I want neighbors like that.....

[ULTRA26 # 1]

That was me who said that.:D
Maybe it's to do with being born and raised in Southern California, but this type of Redneck rule, doesn't sit right with me.
The man with the shotgun became the Judge, the Jury and the Executioner. There is something uncivilized about this. :confused: I'm glad I didn't do it.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

OK, I always love "discussing" stuff with you guys. But, now I'm off to pick up 550 sq ft of special order flooring that was supposed to be here on the 10th and see if I can get it installed by Thursday morning. :D
Good Luck :D

[soupersonic]

Here I sit, my cheeks a flexin
Just gave birth to another Texan
http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/7554/cigarcowboyig8.gif (http://imageshack.us)
:D :D :D
You can tell a Texan a mile away,you just can't tell em anything up close :D :D

[snake321]

I'll bet the neighbor brought back all the hedgetrimmers and saws that he borrowed a year and a half ago.....

[delemorte]

That is something I hope I never have to experience. But I will tell you, if you break into my house while me and my family are there....you are going to f*cking die! I am going to keep shooting until the clip is empty, then load in the second. Nobody is going to put my family in jeapardy, and I will sleep safe and sound knowing I put your ass 6 feet deep.
I love this statement... remember dont reload. just use larger ammo.

[ratso]

Maybe it's to do with being born and raised in Southern California, but this type of Redneck rule, doesn't sit right with me.
The man with the shotgun became the Judge, the Jury and the Executioner. There is something uncivilized about this. :confused: I'm glad I didn't do it.
And them breaking into somones home wasn't uncivilized???:rolleyes:
Years back, a very prominemt businessman and very good friend of mine named Jerrel Bolton was at his Chevy Dealership in West (that is a town just ouside of Waco)... It was around mid morning and a couple of thieving pricks pulled up to his home which sat way off the road... easy pickings for a burglary. Well, they hadn't planned on his wife being home at the time, so after they broke in, they tied and bound her and left her brains splattered on the wall from a shotgun blast to her head. I don't think they ever killed anyone in the past... just a couple of small time thieves robbing a house that don't deserve to die...
http://www.vicfeazell.com/news.shtml?art76.html

[Old Texan]

The man stands a very good shot at being nobilled by the Grand Jury. The perps weren't just suspected of B&E, they were witnessed performing the B&E. Joe Horn was on his own property when the "known" burgulars exited the neighbor's property and approached him on "his" property. He gave fair warning in his judgement and did what he felt he had to do. I will not judge him as I wasn't present but a jury of his peers will.
These 2 lowlifes made a very bad decision and paid the ultimate price. Horn may have ended the incident, but he damn sure didn't play in the decison of 2 "professional" thieves to commit a felony.
Like it or not, Texas ain't taking invasion of personal space and endangerment from hoodlums lightly. Killing isn't by any means to be taken lightly, but the state of Texas and several states are fed up with crimes against the citizens and the below Castle Doctrine was put into place to allow honest citizens to protect themselves and their property, including their friends and neighbors from the lowlife basturds of society.
Below is Texas' "Castle Doctrine" which allows deadly force to protect you and yours. What is to be questioned is in consideration of your neighbor's property.
A BILL TO BE ENTITLED
AN ACT
relating to the use of force or deadly force in defense of a person.
BE IT ENACTED BY THE LEGISLATURE OF THE STATE OF TEXAS:
SECTION 1. Section 9.01, Penal Code, is amended by adding Subdivisions (4) and (5) to read as follows:
(4) "Habitation" has the meaning assigned by Section 30.01.
(5) "Vehicle" has the meaning assigned by Section 30.01.
SECTION 2. Section 9.31, Penal Code, is amended by amending Subsection (a) and adding Subsections (e) and (f) to read as follows:
(a) Except as provided in Subsection (b), a person is justified in using force against another when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to protect the actor against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful force. The actor's belief that the force was immediately necessary as described by this subsection is presumed to be reasonable if the actor:
(1) knew or had reason to believe that the person against whom the force was used:
(A) unlawfully and with force entered, or was attempting to enter unlawfully and with force, the actor's occupied habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment;
(B) unlawfully and with force removed, or was attempting to remove unlawfully and with force, the actor from the actor's habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment; or
(C) was committing or attempting to commit aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery;
(2) did not provoke the person against whom the force was used; and
(3) was not otherwise engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating traffic at the time the force was used.
(e) A person who has a right to be present at the location where the force is used, who has not provoked the person against whom the force is used, and who is not engaged in criminal activity at the time the force is used is not required to retreat before using force as described by this section.
(f) For purposes of Subsection (a), in determining whether an actor described by Subsection (e) reasonably believed that the use of force was necessary, a finder of fact may not consider whether the actor failed to retreat.
SECTION 3. Section 9.32, Penal Code, is amended to read as follows:
Sec. 9.32. DEADLY FORCE IN DEFENSE OF PERSON.
(a) A person is justified in using deadly force against another:
(1) if the actor would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.31; and when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to protect the actor against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful deadly force; or
(B) to prevent the other's imminent commission of aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery.
(b) The actor's belief under Subsection (a)(2) that the deadly force was immediately necessary as described by that subdivision is presumed to be reasonable if the actor:
(1) knew or had reason to believe that the person against whom the deadly force was used:
(A) unlawfully and with force entered, or was attempting to enter unlawfully and with force, the actor's occupied habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment;
(B) unlawfully and with force removed, or was attempting to remove unlawfully and with force, the actor from the actor's habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment; or
(C) was committing or attempting to commit an offense described by Subsection (a)(2)(B);
(2) did not provoke the person against whom the force was used; and
(3) was not otherwise engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating traffic at the time the force was used.
(c) A person who has a right to be present at the location where the deadly force is used, who has not provoked the person against whom the deadly force is used, and who is not engaged in criminal activity at the time the deadly force is used is not required to retreat before using deadly force as described by this section.
(d) For purposes of Subsection (a)(2), in determining whether an actor described by Subsection (c) reasonably believed that the use of deadly force was necessary, a finder of fact may not consider whether the actor failed to retreat.
SECTION 4. Section 83.001, Civil Practice and Remedies Code, is amended to read as follows:
Sec. 83.001. CIVIL IMMUNITY. A defendant who uses force or deadly force that is justified under Chapter 9 Penal Code, is immune from civil liability for personal injury or death that results from the defendant's use of force or deadly force, as applicable.
SECTION 5.
(a) Sections 9.31 and 9.32, Penal Code, as amended by this Act, apply only to an offense committed on or after the effective date of this Act. An offense committed before the effective date of this Act is covered by the law in effect when the offense was committed, and the former law is continued in effect for this purpose. For the purposes of this subsection, an offense is committed before the effective date of this Act if any element of the offense occurs before the effective date.
(b) Section 83.001, Civil Practice and Remedies Code, as amended by this Act, applies only to a cause of action that accrues on or after the effective date of this Act. An action that accrued before the effective date of this Act is governed by the law in effect at the time the action accrued, and that law is continued in effect for that purpose.
SECTION 6. This Act takes effect September 1, 2007.

[delemorte]

The man stands a very good shot at being nobilled by the Grand Jury. The perps weren't just suspected of B&E, they were witnessed performing the B&E. Joe Horn was on his own property when the "known" burgulars exited the neighbor's property and approached him on "his" property. He gave fair warning in his judgement and did what he felt he had to do. I will not judge him as I wasn't present but a jury of his peers will.
These 2 lowlifes made a very bad decision and paid the ultimate price. Horn may have ended the incident, but he damn sure didn't play in the decison of 2 "professional" thieves to commit a felony.
If in fact he was on his property and they came at him when he came out then i think he was justified. I dont know about Texas but in NC the first warning is when the first bullet hits their chest.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

And them breaking into somones home wasn't uncivilized???:rolleyes:
Years back, a very prominemt businessman and very good friend of mine named Jerrel Bolton was at his Chevy Dealership in West (that is a town just ouside of Waco)... It was around mid morning and a couple of thieving pricks pulled up to his home which sat way off the road... easy pickings for a burglary. Well, they hadn't planned on his wife being home at the time, so after they broke in, they tied and bound her and left her brains splattered on the wall from a shotgun blast to her head. I don't think they ever killed anyone in the past... just a couple of small time thieves robbing a house that don't deserve to die...
Of course it was.
Last I heard, the death penalty didn't apply to B&E.
What happened to your friend's wife and this case aren't related.
Tex, based on the information that you posted, and the fact that Joe Horn was instructed not to go outside, IMO, he is probabally gonna get nailed. The only issue is to what degree. We are talking about TX, and I understand that.

[Jbb]

Joe Horn was on his own property when the "known" burgulars exited the neighbor's property and approached him on "his" property. He gave fair warning...
Bang!.....Bang!

[brianthomas]

They were breaking into the house NEXT DOOR at 2PM. He went OUTSIDE to shoot them. It was approximately 1.7 seconds from the "Move, you're dead" until the first of three shots.
If you think vigilante justice is cool, than just say so. Don't try to convince an educated adult that they are wrong. I know right from wrong, this was blatantly wrong. It scares me that some people will never see that. THAT'S what wrong with our country.
You said "don't try to convince an educated adult that they are wrong?" He didn't, he showed them they were wrong. "I know right from wrong, this was blatently wrong." Yep, and now they KNOW they are wrong. "It scares me that some people will never see that." Those boys see that, and certainly won't do it again! "That's what is wrong with our country." And that is what makes our country so great!

[delemorte]

Bang!.....Bang!
K.I.S.S. at its finest

[Sleek-Jet]

Didn't we already discuss this??

[delemorte]

Didn't we already discuss this??
I dont know but was the audio tape on the last one?

[Sleek-Jet]

I dont know but was the audio tape on the last one?
No, I don't think so... I thought maybe another old guy in Texas went after some nerdowells with his Remington 870...

[4trax]

I hope not. If there were more people like him, there would be less crime.
DITTO!!! If they would of listened to the man with the gun they would still be alive and we would be stuck supporting them:mad:

[ratso]

Of course it was.
Last I heard, the death penalty didn't apply to B&E.
What happened to your friend's wife and this case aren't related.
Tex, based on the information that you posted, and the fact that Joe Horn was instructed not to go outside, IMO, he is probabally gonna get nailed. The only issue is to what degree. We are talking about TX, and I understand that.
You're right... it is unrelated, although breaking and entering is breaking and entering. Just in this case nobody innocent was killed, just the ones that rightly should have been.

[Tremor Therapy]

Ratso,
Like I said, I see both sides of the issue. As a person who has been burglarized in the past, I can definately understand the passion one might have when they head out the door to stop a crime from happening to their neighbors property. But I just don't feel I could pull the trigger if I caught some teenage punk stealing a car stereo out of someone's car, or someone crawling out a window with someone's dvd player. Now don't think for one moment that I am liberal towards criminals. No chance. If I heard it correctly, I think Texas is the state with the "3 credible witness" law when it comes to murder, and I applaud it. I think we need more laws to that effect, or that we actually start enforcing the penalties as provided by the law.
But IMHO, based on what I have heard, he knew what he was going to do with that shotgun the moment he set down the phone, and it wasn't to just hold them there. He may not get any time, and everyone may martyr him as a hero, but I think he may be in trouble.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

You're right... it is unrelated, although breaking and entering is breaking and entering. Just in this case nobody innocent was killed, just the ones that rightly should have been.
Joe Horn took it upon himself to be the Judge, the Jury and the Executioner.
If I hadn't heard the tape I might feel differently but knowing what I do, there is little doubt that Joe Horn was not in danger and took the law into his own hands after being specifially told by 911, not to go outside and not to shoot. Just my opinion
It's up the the jury to decide if this was justified or not.
Ratso,
Like I said, I see both sides of the issue. As a person who has been burglarized in the past, I can definately understand the passion one might have when they head out the door to stop a crime from happening to their neighbors property. But I just don't feel I could pull the trigger if I caught some teenage punk stealing a car stereo out of someone's car, or someone crawling out a window with someone's dvd player. Now don't think for one moment that I am liberal towards criminals. No chance. If I heard it correctly, I think Texas is the state with the "3 credible witness" law when it comes to murder, and I applaud it. I think we need more laws to that effect, or that we actually start enforcing the penalties as provided by the law.
But IMHO, based on what I have heard, he knew what he was going to do with that shotgun the moment he set down the phone, and it wasn't to just hold them there. He may not get any time, and everyone may martyr him as a hero, but I think he may be in trouble.
I completely agree.
BTW, I have been the victim of burglary 4 times in my life, so I do know what it feels like.

[topless]

DITTO!!! If they would of listened to the man with the gun they would still be alive and we would be stuck supporting them:mad:Maybe they no speak english.:idea:

[Old Texan]

Joe Horn took it upon himself to be the Judge, the Jury and the Executioner.
If I hadn't heard the tape I might feel differently but knowing what I do, there is little doubt that Joe Horn was not in danger and took the law into his own hands after being specifially told by 911, not to go outside and not to shoot. Just my opinion
It's up the the jury to decide if this was justified or not.
I completely agree.
BTW, I have been the victim of burglary 4 times in my life, so I do know what it feels like.
Joe Horn specifically stated he was not going to allow a crime to be committed in front of him in his neighborhood, he specifically said he had knowledge of the law and what he interpreted his rights were, and he specifically stated he was not going to allow himself to be harmed by these criminals. It's easy to read premeditation into what you "heard" on the tape, but in reality one had to be there to actually understand exactly the circumstances. Joe Horn from his statements and what happened is not some "redneck" as suggested. He's an intelligent honest moral man that, as he has stated afterwards, will have to live with the death of 2 human beings for the rest of his life. This also wasn't some "ghetto" or low income neighborhood where crime runs rampant. It was an upscale subdivision full of hard working citizens that had been chosen as victims by lowlifes. I in no means am trying to imply that the Horn neighborhood is above society or above the law, just that the Horn neighborhood is tired of being attacked by a system which shows no just punishment nor effective deterrent to the dregs of society.
If these thieves had been shot in a lower class neighborhood I guarantee we wouldn't be having this discusssion. Why because we as a society and in particular certain segments of society have allowed burgulary, open drug sales, and other crimes to happen outside their front doors with out fighting back. Last Wednesday Joe Horn said very violently, "Not in my neighborhood and most definitley not in my presence." I truly believe from the local talk that he felt he was in danger and acted accordingly to how he viewed the situation. If he had hid inside and allowed the burgulars to come and go, he felt he would have failed himself and his neighborhood and was no better than the neighborhoods overridden with crime.
Opinion aside, this is a case of a citizen defending his rights to a safe neighborhood in which a legal, tax paying, law abiding , and proud citizen with good morals can expect to leave their home at 7 in the morning and return at 5 in the evening and have things as they were left. Do as you will in your neighborhood but, as you always say there Ultra, "the majority" of Americans are tired of worthless thieves and if during the course of an intervention the crime perpetrating thieves lose their lives, so be it for bad choices of "occupation".
For those whose opinion that your neighborhood isn't "valuable" enough to be defended, wake your dumbasses up. These 2 lowlifes if given the gun wouldn't hesitate in second to shoot a citizen if they saw the opportunity to escape. And they would most likely not have the stated remorse Joe Horn has spoken in the press, they would be sitting with their "homies" braggin' about their cowardly deed.
So if you choose, give your neighborhoods and family's safety up in the name of PC or whatever indifference you phrase it to be, but learn quickly there are a helluva lot more Joe Horns out there not about to give up what they've lived their lives for to a bunch of lowlife scum.

[bonechip]

Oh to bad, two less modakkas,to steal from you and I. Mr Horn was just thinning the herd of a couple of pieces of trash.

[ratso]

Joe Horn took it upon himself to be the Judge, the Jury and the Executioner.
If I hadn't heard the tape I might feel differently but knowing what I do, there is little doubt that Joe Horn was not in danger and took the law into his own hands after being specifially told by 911, not to go outside and not to shoot. Just my opinion
It's up the the jury to decide if this was justified or not.
I completely agree.
BTW, I have been the victim of burglary 4 times in my life, so I do know what it feels like.
I'm sure OJ would agree...;)

[Wet Dream]

Quit arguing about the little things!!! :mad: Can't anyone see the positive in this whole thing? Two less ******* in the world. Oh, the beauty. :D
You can create your own wording for the *'s. :D

[Tremor Therapy]

Old Texan,
Please don't mis-understand my point. I too would have grabbed my shotgun and headed over to my neighbors, but as I sit here, I don't know if I could have just shot them out right if they started to run. And I know that it would be a heavy burden on my sole had I chosen to do so.
Believe me, I understand the sentiment. I have had my home broken into twice, I have had my car stereo stolen, and I have had 2 vehicles stolen. I know how pissed off he probably was to see scum bags stealing from a law abiding neighbor again, and he was tired of it. I just don't know that I could pull the trigger on a crime of theft. Now I don't want it to escalate to what if they had a gun, etc, etc, and I am not passing judgement on what he did. All I was trying to point out is that I do not think I could pull the trigger on that type of crime, and that based on my beliefs, he may have gotten himself into trouble.
While I applaud him for taking action, I just do not know if that action was the best course of action....2 scum bags off the streets or not, and believe me, I won't miss the scum bags!

[ratso]

Old Texan,
Please don't mis-understand my point. I too would have grabbed my shotgun and headed over to my neighbors, but as I sit here, I don't know if I could have just shot them out right if they started to run. And I know that it would be a heavy burden on my sole had I chosen to do so.
Believe me, I understand the sentiment. I have had my home broken into twice, I have had my car stereo stolen, and I have had 2 vehicles stolen. I know how pissed off he probably was to see scum bags stealing from a law abiding neighbor again, and he was tired of it. I just don't know that I could pull the trigger on a crime of theft. Now I don't want it to escalate to what if they had a gun, etc, etc, and I am not passing judgement on what he did. All I was trying to point out is that I do not think I could pull the trigger on that type of crime, and that based on my beliefs, he may have gotten himself into trouble.
While I applaud him for taking action, I just do not know if that action was the best course of action....2 scum bags off the streets or not, and believe me, I won't miss the scum bags!
I have stated that myself, although I can't codemn him for doing it. Had they pulled a gun on me first then no problem, and hopefully I'd live to see another day. Criminals today have too many rights, and they are coming across our border in droves... It is going to get a lot worse...

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Joe Horn specifically stated he was not going to allow a crime to be committed in front of him in his neighborhood, he specifically said he had knowledge of the law and what he interpreted his rights were, and he specifically stated he was not going to allow himself to be harmed by these criminals. It's easy to read premeditation into what you "heard" on the tape, but in reality one had to be there to actually understand exactly the circumstances. Joe Horn from his statements and what happened is not some "redneck" as suggested. He's an intelligent honest moral man that, as he has stated afterwards, will have to live with the death of 2 human beings for the rest of his life. This also wasn't some "ghetto" or low income neighborhood where crime runs rampant. It was an upscale subdivision full of hard working citizens that had been chosen as victims by lowlifes. I in no means am trying to imply that the Horn neighborhood is above society or above the law, just that the Horn neighborhood is tired of being attacked by a system which shows no just punishment nor effective deterrent to the dregs of society.
If these thieves had been shot in a lower class neighborhood I guarantee we wouldn't be having this discusssion. Why because we as a society and in particular certain segments of society have allowed burgulary, open drug sales, and other crimes to happen outside their front doors with out fighting back. Last Wednesday Joe Horn said very violently, "Not in my neighborhood and most definitley not in my presence." I truly believe from the local talk that he felt he was in danger and acted accordingly to how he viewed the situation. If he had hid inside and allowed the burgulars to come and go, he felt he would have failed himself and his neighborhood and was no better than the neighborhoods overridden with crime.
Opinion aside, this is a case of a citizen defending his rights to a safe neighborhood in which a legal, tax paying, law abiding , and proud citizen with good morals can expect to leave their home at 7 in the morning and return at 5 in the evening and have things as they were left. Do as you will in your neighborhood but, as you always say there Ultra, "the majority" of Americans are tired of worthless thieves and if during the course of an intervention the crime perpetrating thieves lose their lives, so be it for bad choices of "occupation".
For those whose opinion that your neighborhood isn't "valuable" enough to be defended, wake your dumbasses up. These 2 lowlifes if given the gun wouldn't hesitate in second to shoot a citizen if they saw the opportunity to escape. And they would most likely not have the stated remorse Joe Horn has spoken in the press, they would be sitting with their "homies" braggin' about their cowardly deed.
So if you choose, give your neighborhoods and family's safety up in the name of PC or whatever indifference you phrase it to be, but learn quickly there are a helluva lot more Joe Horns out there not about to give up what they've lived their lives for to a bunch of lowlife scum.
Let the jury decide.
Tex, is that how you handle the exact same situation?
I could not kill someone for stealing something.
I'm sure OJ would agree...;)
You don't agree that a jury should determine if this was justified?

[cave]

God Bless Texas.:D

[ratso]

Let the jury decide.
Tex, is that how you handle the exact same situation?
I could not kill someone for stealing something.
You don't agree that a jury should determine if this was justified?
I would agree that it's a waste of taxpayers money.;)

[ratso]

I'd have rather heard on the tape "Bang! Bang! Bang!...uh...er...I mean stop!":D

[Schiada76]

The dirtbags lived in Texas and they knew the law.
It was their choice to die. Good fcking riddance.;)

[Old Texan]

Let the jury decide.
Tex, is that how you handle the exact same situation?
I could not kill someone for stealing something.
You don't agree that a jury should determine if this was justified?
I'll put it this way Ultra. I've had a gun pulled on me twice in my life. Both times I'd let my guard down and faced punks with the intentions to rob me. At both times I was single and without family responsibilties to anyone but my mother or I "may" have acted differently.
"Junkie Punk No. 1" decided he believed my summation of the facts that at the distance I was gradually increasing between himself and me, his accuracy was not good enough and he believed that if I wasn't mortally wounded, I would indeed follow up on my promise to rip his worthless noggin off and cram his cheap little Saturday night .22 down his bloody windpipe. He wisely retreated with dignity and his life.
"Worthless Cowardly Punk No. 2", fumbled the cheap little .32 "lady's" purse gun he pulled and today I imagine he still walks with a limp with his artificial knee, has a pain in his left side 'cause the charity ward doctor didn't get the broken ribs set quite right before they threw him in jail, and everytime he wants to eat an apple, he has to reapply a dose of Supergrip Denture Adhesive to secure his front teeth which had to have the roots removed after he was force fed the lil' .32.
You tell me how you think I would handle 2 lowlife thieves coming out of my neighbor's broken window. Life's full of decisions, you just have to know you can live with the ones you make. The material objects being stolen aren't what I care about, sorry you can't see that.
By the way I'm betting on the Grand Jury to understand the situation.
Also Tremor T, I like Joe Horn, don't carry weapons into a situation unclear of my abilty to commit. And I understand your position of doubt, therefore you will choose what is best for you. I just don't feel from what I've heard and from the situation's public reports that Horn acted with hate or recklessness. He felt he had to make a stand for his own self worth as a person and duty as a citizen. Only he can tell us for sure. I do know that I will believe what he says.

[ratso]

I'll put it this way Ultra. I've had a gun pulled on me twice in my life. Both times I'd let my guard down and faced punks with the intentions to rob me. At both times I was single and without family responsibilties to anyone but my mother or I "may" have acted differently.
"Junkie Punk No. 1" decided he believed my summation of the facts that at the distance I was gradually increasing between himself and me, his accuracy was not good enough and he believed that if I wasn't mortally wounded, I would indeed follow up on my promise to rip his worthless noggin off and cram his cheap little Saturday night .22 down his bloody windpipe. He wisely retreated with dignity and his life.
"Worthless Cowardly Punk No. 2", fumbled the cheap little .32 "lady's" purse gun he pulled and today I imagine he still walks with a limp with his artificial knee, has a pain in his left side 'cause the charity ward doctor didn't get the broken ribs set quite right before they threw him in jail, and everytime he wants to eat an apple, he has to reapply a dose of Supergrip Denture Adhesive to secure his front teeth which had to have the roots removed after he was force fed the lil' .32.
You tell me how you think I would handle 2 lowlife thieves coming out of my neighbor's broken window. Life's full of decisions, you just have to know you can live with the ones you make. The material objects being stolen aren't what I care about, sorry you can't see that.
By the way I'm betting on the Grand Jury to understand the situation.
Also Tremor T, I like Joe Horn, don't carry weapons into a situation unclear of my abilty to commit. And I understand your position of doubt, therefore you will choose what is best for you. I just don't feel from what I've heard and from the situation's public reports that Horn acted with hate or recklessness. He felt he had to make a stand for his own self worth as a person and duty as a citizen. Only he can tell us for sure. I do know that I will believe what he says.
Exactly... Some people just don't get "the point" of it at all...

[Sweet Addiction]

Damn this thread got long. :D

[Sleeper CP]

Joe Horn took it upon himself to be the Judge, the Jury and the Executioner.
If I hadn't heard the tape I might feel differently but knowing what I do, there is little doubt that Joe Horn was not in danger and took the law into his own hands after being specifially told by 911, not to go outside and not to shoot. Just my opinion
It's up the the jury to decide if this was justified or not.
I completely agree.
BTW, I have been the victim of burglary 4 times in my life, so I do know what it feels like.
Ultra,
I'm not going to tell you that I absolutely applaud Mr. Horn's actions but I do understand them. I hate thieves.:mad:
I've had more than a few things stolen from me and my family over the year's and most of the stuff was stolen by POS White trash tweaker's. Thugg's,punks and crook's come in all color's.
The thing about the guy's he shot, do you think that was the first and only house they ever broke into:confused: I doubt it.:idea:
Mr. Horn's legal problem is going to be two fold if not more:
First ;his life and his property were not in danger. ( I think if someone is stilling your car,truck, motorcycle, or bike & if that is your transportation you should be able to blast them)
Secondly; on the tape at 1:18 before he went out side he said " you wanna bet, I'm gonna kill'em". The "I'm gonna kill'em statement is "gonna" be a problem for him.
But the Grand Jury is going to have to decide. It will be interesting, but more than likely they will look at it as : if they hadn't been doing what they were doing they would still be a live.
Sleeper CP
Big Inch Ford Lover

[Schiada76]

Let the jury decide.
Tex, is that how you handle the exact same situation?
I could not kill someone for stealing something.
You don't agree that a jury should determine if this was justified?
Screw the jury! This country needs more of this, a lot more. It's time honest citizens take their cities back, the politicians certainly don't have the balls.:mad:

[ratso]

Screw the jury! This country needs more of this, a lot more. It's time honest citizens take their cities back, the politicians certainly don't have the balls.:mad:
Amen... Things are out of control! Had Horn NOT gone outside and confronted these pieces of shit, I wonder just how hard the police would have looked for them? After all, it's just breaking and entering... no big deal to them. I tell you, I've been broken into, ripped off more times than I care to count! How many times have the police caught any of these criminals? Not once. Seems they need a hand... Mr Horn gave them a hand. People need to stop being pussys and stand up for their rights! Nobody else is going to!

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Tex, is this the way you would have handled this situation?
Screw the jury! This country needs more of this, a lot more. It's time honest citizens take their cities back, the politicians certainly don't have the balls.:mad:
You have the right to your opinion and I have the right not to agree.
Ultra,
I'm not going to tell you that I absolutely applaud Mr. Horn's actions but I do understand them. I hate thieves.:mad:
I've had more than a few things stolen from me and my family over the year's and most of the stuff was stolen by POS White trash tweaker's. Thugg's,punks and crook's come in all color's.
The thing about the guy's he shot, do you think that was the first and only house they ever broke into:confused: I doubt it.:idea:
Mr. Horn's legal problem is going to be two fold if not more:
First ;his life and his property were not in danger. ( I think if someone is stilling your car,truck, motorcycle, or bike & if that is your transportation you should be able to blast them)
Secondly; on the tape at 1:18 before he went out side he said " you wanna bet, I'm gonna kill'em". The "I'm gonna kill'em statement is "gonna" be a problem for him.
But the Grand Jury is going to have to decide. It will be interesting, but more than likely they will look at it as : if they hadn't been doing what they were doing they would still be a live.
Sleeper CP
Big Inch Ford Lover
Scp,
It's not something I could have done myself. I understand why he did what he did, and I don't like thieves either. I have no doubt that these guys has done this before.
We all have to remember that this took place in TX. It is very possible that he may not face charges.
Again, we have a process and system that we all must live within. It's up to the jury

[WestTNRiverRat]

When you partake of activities that may wind up getting you killed...my sympathy meter don't move off the ZERO. Good riddance.

[delemorte]

Quit arguing about the little things!!! :mad: Can't anyone see the positive in this whole thing? Two less ******* in the world. Oh, the beauty. :D
You can create your own wording for the *'s. :D
Could it be NAGGERS ? (Obvious South Park reference.) See vdeo below.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1fhxl_nggers_fun

[delemorte]

If you listen to all of the report these two guys were repeat offenders..
And I agree, if you break the law, run from the cops, fight with the cops or any other stupid/illigal activity you forfit your right to my sympathy and get what you deserved.
and might i add that this thread went way farther than i ever thought it might...

[Sleeper CP]

If you listen to all of the report these two guys were repeat offenders..
And I agree, if you break the law, run from the cops, fight with the cops or any other stupid/illigal activity you forfit your right to my sympathy and get what you deserved.
and might i add that this thread went way farther than i ever thought it might...
You should have named it "thieves on a treadmill" and it would have exploded:idea:
I think I read somewhere that the typical crook is a head of the cops better than 20:1 so I wonder how many times these POS' had been into people's houses and yes after they leave the cops have almost zero chance of catching them.
Sleeper CP
Big Inch Ford Lover

[Old Texan]

Tex, is this the way you would have handled this situation?
If you are referring to your "judge, jury, executioner" rhetoic, an emphatic "Hell No". Nor will I get into another of your little holier than thou mind games. I stated early on that the GJ will make the proper decision. Horn's decision was based on how he viewed an immediate situation involving a crime being performed virtually under his nose. And Horn being the man I suspect he is will honor the GJ's findings. You paint him as a redneck Texas Psychopath, I paint him as a man willing to stand up against a threat to the fabric of his and society's existance.
I handle and evaluate situations as they occur. Joe Horn did what he had to do according to how he evaluated his situation. There's obviously major points you choose not to agree with and choose or perhaps refuse to acknowledge. Nothing new as again you live without fear and will sit and wait for a solution to remove crime from your country all the while sitting in judgement of those that realize society needs to take responsibility for their actions. Some believe in feel good activities to take their minds off the reality of situations, some believe in action.
Though we could never know what these 2 scoundrels may have become, it's better than even odds if they escaped and lived, they would have continued to commit crimes and likely one day been responsible for an innocent's harm or death. Now they won't and don't make it sound as if Joe Horn reigned down as the jury, Joe Horn was only preventing that which he saw as a crime needing to be stopped, and without justifying 2 deaths, the world is a bit safer for his action and neither will be missed by the majority.
Somewhere we need to remember that our personal safety isn't possible when we just let criminals take over our country, neighborhood by neighborhood. Don't think by hiding inside when the wolf is at your door, you won't eventually get eaten, you're gonna run out of neighbors.
Also don't think I walk around in fear of this bad element, I don't and I won't. But if they want to stay healthy, they all might take a close look at what happened in Pasadena, TX, Wed. last, because Joe Horn ain't alone.

[Moneypitt]

I think it may be safe to say that Mr Horn has no clue as to current laws. He more than likely grew up during the great depression when a man's possessions could mean the difference between life or death for him and his family...........Is it still on the books in Texas that stealing a man's horse is a hanging offense? This gentleman reacted to a situation in a mind set that none of us ever had, and he never grew out of.......Was it wrong? I wasn't there, I didn't see it, so I can't answer that....Would I have killed in that circumstance, I doubt it, but right and wrong are a generational reaction, in his generation material things meant different things than most of us feel now.....We are in a bit of a realestate fiasco, back up 70 years when farmers were losing farms, people were jumping out of windows, soup kitchens, and of course chicken thieves.....Catch a man stealing chickens?......Like the farmers sign said, "If you are found here at night you will be found here in the morning"............A different generation, and I'll bet he had no clue what the law said he could or couldn't do, nor did he care........MP

[ratso]

If I was your neighbor, and caught someone breaking into your home, stealing your vehicle, potentially harming your family or even kicking your dog... yes, I'll be there to lend a hand or try to stop it...
Thank God some of you clowns aren't my neighbors because you'd probably have your wimp asses cowering under the bed until it's all over and the "bad guys" leave... after all, it doesn't affect you.:rolleyes:
Maybe it's the years being a bouncer... maybe it's the way my parents raised me to be a fukkin' man... maybe it's because I work damn hard for what I have as a lot of people do and some low life pricks aren't going to run over what I believe in... It's about standing up for your rights as well as your "brother"... The politicians turn their heads while more trash comes across our border on a daily basis... Like they give a fukk...
They need to give Horn a medal...

[WishIknew]

Amen... Things are out of control! Had Horn NOT gone outside and confronted these pieces of shit, I wonder just how hard the police would have looked for them? After all, it's just breaking and entering... no big deal to them. I tell you, I've been broken into, ripped off more times than I care to count! How many times have the police caught any of these criminals? Not once. Seems they need a hand... Mr Horn gave them a hand. People need to stop being pussys and stand up for their rights! Nobody else is going to!
The same goes for people stealing boats in Havasu and when your finished with it just leave it at site 6 ???? I vote for shoot the FOCKERS!!!!!!

[Devilman]

Some of the posts in this thread remind me of this joke, lol.... :D
Self Defense Quiz...
Question: You're walking down a deserted street with your wife and two small children. Suddenly, a dangerous looking man with a huge knife comes around the corner and is running at you while screaming obscenities. In your hand is a Glock .40 and you are an expert shot. You have mere seconds before he reaches you and your family. What do you do?
Liberal Answer: Well, that's not enough information to answer the question! Does the man look poor or oppressed? Have I ever done anything to him that is inspiring him to attack? Could we run away? What does my wife think? What about the kids? Could I possibly swing the gun like a club and knock the knife out of his hand? What does the law say about this situation? Is it possible he'd be happy with killing just me, and not my whole family? Does he definitely want to kill me or would he just be content to wound me? If I were to grab his knees and hold on, could my family get away while he was stabbing me? This is all so confusing! I need to debate this with some friends for a few days to try to come to a conclusion.
Conservative Answer: BANG!
Texan's Answer: BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG!BANG! BANG! *click* (sounds of magazine being ejected and fresh magazine installed)
Wife: "Sweetheart, he looks like he's still moving, what do you kids think?"
Son: "Mom's right Dad, I saw it too..."
BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG!BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG!
Daughter: "Nice grouping Daddy!"
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/101582812rofl3-thumb.gif http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/101582812rofl3-thumb.gif http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/101582812rofl3-thumb.gif

[ratso]

Some of the posts in this thread remind me of this joke, lol.... :D
Self Defense Quiz...
Question: You're walking down a deserted street with your wife and two small children. Suddenly, a dangerous looking man with a huge knife comes around the corner and is running at you while screaming obscenities. In your hand is a Glock .40 and you are an expert shot. You have mere seconds before he reaches you and your family. What do you do?
Liberal Answer: Well, that's not enough information to answer the question! Does the man look poor or oppressed? Have I ever done anything to him that is inspiring him to attack? Could we run away? What does my wife think? What about the kids? Could I possibly swing the gun like a club and knock the knife out of his hand? What does the law say about this situation? Is it possible he'd be happy with killing just me, and not my whole family? Does he definitely want to kill me or would he just be content to wound me? If I were to grab his knees and hold on, could my family get away while he was stabbing me? This is all so confusing! I need to debate this with some friends for a few days to try to come to a conclusion.
Conservative Answer: BANG!
Texan's Answer: BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG!BANG! BANG! *click* (sounds of magazine being ejected and fresh magazine installed)
Wife: "Sweetheart, he looks like he's still moving, what do you kids think?"
Son: "Mom's right Dad, I saw it too..."
BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG!BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG!
Daughter: "Nice grouping Daddy!"
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/101582812rofl3-thumb.gif http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/101582812rofl3-thumb.gif http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/101582812rofl3-thumb.gif
lmao...:D

[westair]

Yeah, because prison and the death penalty have always been such great deterrents. :rolleyes: You know what's a deterrent to crime? Education.
Who gives a shit if prison and the death penalty are deterrents, it keeps them off the streets.

[Jbb]

If I was your neighbor, and caught someone breaking into your home, stealing your vehicle, potentially harming your family or even kicking your dog... yes, I'll be there to lend a hand or try to stop it...
Thank God some of you clowns aren't my neighbors because you'd probably have your wimp asses cowering under the bed until it's all over and the "bad guys" leave... after all, it doesn't affect you.:rolleyes:
Maybe it's the years being a bouncer... maybe it's the way my parents raised me to be a fukkin' man... maybe it's because I work damn hard for what I have as a lot of people do and some low life pricks aren't going to run over what I believe in... It's about standing up for your rights as well as your "brother"... The politicians turn their heads while more trash comes across our border on a daily basis... Like they give a fukk...
They need to give Horn a medal...
Did you take your medication this morning Ratso....:D
BTW...this post is right on the money....

[Schiada76]

Tex, is this the way you would have handled this situation?
You have the right to your opinion and I have the right not to agree.
Then please put up a "Burglers Welcome sign" on your roof. As a matter of fact all liberals should honor their conviction and do the same.:idea: :jawdrop: :rolleyes:

[Schiada76]

When I was a kid we didn't need to lock our doors here in the SFV. We could leave the house at 6:00am and not come home until dark. We could leave our bicycles unlocked in deserted areas all day long come back and ride them home. No deadbolts, no alarms no guard dogs no FEAR.
What now?
Kiss the criminals ass and triple lock your doors.
Liberals are SCUM.:devil:

[westair]

If I was your neighbor, and caught someone breaking into your home, stealing your vehicle, potentially harming your family or even kicking your dog... yes, I'll be there to lend a hand or try to stop it...
Thank God some of you clowns aren't my neighbors because you'd probably have your wimp asses cowering under the bed until it's all over and the "bad guys" leave... after all, it doesn't affect you.:rolleyes:
Maybe it's the years being a bouncer... maybe it's the way my parents raised me to be a fukkin' man... maybe it's because I work damn hard for what I have as a lot of people do and some low life pricks aren't going to run over what I believe in... It's about standing up for your rights as well as your "brother"... The politicians turn their heads while more trash comes across our border on a daily basis... Like they give a fukk...
They need to give Horn a medal...
Also agree, this post is right on ..... I would hope most people think this way, but there are those few libs on here who always believe the person committing the crime is the victim!

[Tremor Therapy]

If I was your neighbor, and caught someone breaking into your home, stealing your vehicle, potentially harming your family or even kicking your dog... yes, I'll be there to lend a hand or try to stop it...
Thank God some of you clowns aren't my neighbors because you'd probably have your wimp asses cowering under the bed until it's all over and the "bad guys" leave... after all, it doesn't affect you.:rolleyes:
Maybe it's the years being a bouncer... maybe it's the way my parents raised me to be a fukkin' man... maybe it's because I work damn hard for what I have as a lot of people do and some low life pricks aren't going to run over what I believe in... It's about standing up for your rights as well as your "brother"... The politicians turn their heads while more trash comes across our border on a daily basis... Like they give a fukk...
They need to give Horn a medal...
Ratso,
Like I said, I don't know if I could have pulled the trigger, but it seems we were raised by the same parents.

[ratso]

lol Jbb... no meds here, just a Red Bull.:D
Tremor Therapy, I will tell you... my dad was always my hero...;)
I believe SWB stated earlier that education is the answer, yet some of the biggest crooks ever were very well educated. I guess it just makes a crook a smarter criminal, at least as far as knowing how not to get shot.:idea:

[ULTRA26 # 1]

If you are referring to your "judge, jury, executioner" rhetoic, an emphatic "Hell No". Nor will I get into another of your little holier than thou mind games. I stated early on that the GJ will make the proper decision. Horn's decision was based on how he viewed an immediate situation involving a crime being performed virtually under his nose. And Horn being the man I suspect he is will honor the GJ's findings. You paint him as a redneck Texas Psychopath, I paint him as a man willing to stand up against a threat to the fabric of his and society's existance.
I handle and evaluate situations as they occur. Joe Horn did what he had to do according to how he evaluated his situation. There's obviously major points you choose not to agree with and choose or perhaps refuse to acknowledge. Nothing new as again you live without fear and will sit and wait for a solution to remove crime from your country all the while sitting in judgement of those that realize society needs to take responsibility for their actions. Some believe in feel good activities to take their minds off the reality of situations, some believe in action.
Though we could never know what these 2 scoundrels may have become, it's better than even odds if they escaped and lived, they would have continued to commit crimes and likely one day been responsible for an innocent's harm or death. Now they won't and don't make it sound as if Joe Horn reigned down as the jury, Joe Horn was only preventing that which he saw as a crime needing to be stopped, and without justifying 2 deaths, the world is a bit safer for his action and neither will be missed by the majority.
Somewhere we need to remember that our personal safety isn't possible when we just let criminals take over our country, neighborhood by neighborhood. Don't think by hiding inside when the wolf is at your door, you won't eventually get eaten, you're gonna run out of neighbors.
Also don't think I walk around in fear of this bad element, I don't and I won't. But if they want to stay healthy, they all might take a close look at what happened in Pasadena, TX, Wed. last, because Joe Horn ain't alone.
WTF are you babbling about mind games. I asked a simple question. I don't see the burglars as victims. What I have said is that I could not kill someone for stealing. "Texas Psychopath" is a bit of a stretch don't you think? Horn's own words on the 911 tape "I'm gonna kill um"
Right wrong or otherwise, in most parts of the country, people don't shoot other people except in the case of self defense. Clearly TX is different. It always has been. Redneck rule is how I view this. Sorry if this description bothers you.
Many of the folks here question whether of not they would have been able to pull the trigger. I have stated without doubt that I could not. Are you capable of shooting someone under similar circumstances? Not a mind game it is a simple question that should have a yes, no or I don't know answer. If your answer was "Hell No" please disregard. Whether I would have acted in the same manner or if I believe Horn was justified, isn't the issue. The GJ will will determine if Horn's actions were justified.
Then please put up a "Burglers Welcome sign" on your roof. As a matter of fact all liberals should honor their conviction and do the same.:idea: :jawdrop: :rolleyes:
Someone breaking into my home is a different story. Call me what you want, but I could not shoot someone who I thought broke iinto my neighbors house. That's just the way it is.
You ever kill or shoot anyone Schiada? You talk a mean game, but I suspect that's all it is.

[sam pioske]

million years ago i was stationed in your town [victoria] and was told shoot the SOB and try to drag him back in the house. That would have helped Mr Horn ? just don't keep dispatch on the line while draging the scum bag....

[WestTNRiverRat]

If I was your neighbor, and caught someone breaking into your home, stealing your vehicle, potentially harming your family or even kicking your dog... yes, I'll be there to lend a hand or try to stop it...
Thank God some of you clowns aren't my neighbors because you'd probably have your wimp asses cowering under the bed until it's all over and the "bad guys" leave... after all, it doesn't affect you.:rolleyes:
Maybe it's the years being a bouncer... maybe it's the way my parents raised me to be a fukkin' man... maybe it's because I work damn hard for what I have as a lot of people do and some low life pricks aren't going to run over what I believe in... It's about standing up for your rights as well as your "brother"... The politicians turn their heads while more trash comes across our border on a daily basis... Like they give a fukk...
They need to give Horn a medal...
Ding,ding,ding,ding....we have a winner. Fock those pieces of shat.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

The entire 911 call
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7jqLie6-Y0

[rrrr]

million years ago i was stationed in your town [victoria] and was told shoot the SOB and try to drag him back in the house. That would have helped Mr Horn ? just don't keep dispatch on the line while draging the scum bag....
The law changed September 1st this year......you can shoot 'em in the yard and leave them there. :D :D

[Jbb]

The law changed September 1st this year......you can shoot 'em in the yard and leave them there. :D :D
....Bang!......:jawdrop:
:D

[ratso]

The entire 911 call
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7jqLie6-Y0
I listened to that last night numerous times on the news...
They were criminals, scum, trash, thieves... They put theirselves in a position to die. Maybe they should have brushed up on the laws before breaking into someone elses home.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

I listened to that last night numerous times on the news...
They were criminals, scum, trash, thieves... They put theirselves in a position to die. Maybe they should have brushed up on the laws before breaking into someone elses home.
I'm not disputing that these guy's weren't P'sOS. Does some a**hole driving through a school zone at 100 mph, deserve to be shot and killed? Does a shoplifter deserve to be shot and killed? Does a man who has an affair with another mans wife deserve to be shot and killed? You might answer yes to all of these, but the law doesn't support death as punishment for these crimes as it doesn't for B&E. I wasn't there so I will not pass judgement but based on the 911 tapes, it didn't sound if Horn's safety was as risk.
Again, I'm not stating that I don't understand Horn's anger or that he viewed these guy as criminals, scum, trash, thieves. I think we all do. Horn was depending of the new TX law, when he fired his gun. He stated so on 911 tape. If what Old Texan posted is the new TX statute, I believe that Horn may be in some trouble with the law.
The TX GJ will decide if Horn's actions were justifiable.

[Schiada76]

lol Jbb... no meds here, just a Red Bull.:D
Tremor Therapy, I will tell you... my dad was always my hero...;)
I believe SWB stated earlier that education is the answer, yet some of the biggest crooks ever were very well educated. I guess it just makes a crook a smarter criminal, at least as far as knowing how not to get shot.:idea:
Right, educate scum like that how?:rolleyes:
They had a chance at a decent education just like the rest of society.
In fact they ignored a very simple lesson that got them killed.
Lesson #1 for Texans:
If you steal from people in Texas it's legal to kill you. Don't steal.:D

[Jbb]

I'm not disputing that these guy's weren't P'sOS. Does some a**hole driving through a school zone at 100 mph, deserve to be shot and killed? Does a shoplifter deserve to be shot and killed? Does a man who has an affair with another mans wife deserve to be shot and killed? You might answer yes to all of these, but the law doesn't support death as punishment for these crimes as it doesn't for B&E. I wasn't there so I will not pass judgement but based on the 911 tapes, it didn't sound if Horn's safety was as risk.
Again, I'm not stating that I don't understand Horn's anger or that he viewed these guy as criminals, scum, trash, thieves. I think we all do. Horn was depending of the new TX law, when he fired his gun. He stated so on 911 tape. If what Old Texan posted is the new TX statute, I believe that Horn may be in some trouble with the law.
The TX GJ will decide if Horn's actions were justifiable.
Hey Ultra.....lol...Dont mess with Texas....:D

[Schiada76]

WTF are you babbling about mind games. I asked a simple question. I don't see the burglars as victims. What I have said is that I could not kill someone for stealing. "Texas Psychopath" is a bit of a stretch don't you think? Horn's own words on the 911 tape "I'm gonna kill um"
Right wrong or otherwise, in most parts of the country, people don't shoot other people except in the case of self defense. Clearly TX is different. It always has been. Redneck rule is how I view this. Sorry if this description bothers you.
Many of the folks here question whether of not they would have been able to pull the trigger. I have stated without doubt that I could not. Are you capable of shooting someone under similar circumstances? Not a mind game it is a simple question that should have a yes, no or I don't know answer. If your answer was "Hell No" please disregard. Whether I would have acted in the same manner or if I believe Horn was justified, isn't the issue. The GJ will will determine if Horn's actions were justified.
Someone breaking into my home is a different story. Call me what you want, but I could not shoot someone who I thought broke iinto my neighbors house. That's just the way it is.
You ever kill or shoot anyone Schiada? You talk a mean game, but I suspect that's all it is.
Ya got me there, but not for lack of trying and I have tried believe me.
There's two lowlife scumbags that may still be alive that used to think they could attack/intimidate people with knives. Neither would be alive if there hadn't been enough people around to stop and restrain me, neither eats with their own teeth and I bet they remember me everytime they get out of bed.:devil:
I didn't need a weapon either.

[Schiada76]

Any of you libs here think the actual ramifications of burglary through in this day and age? They don't just steal your junk anymore they steal your life with identity theft.

[ratso]

Glenn Beck on Prime News had a good segment on this last night... He interviewed a Texas Congressman that didn't think this would ever see the Grand Jury. I hope he is right.

[Dave C]

as I read this its sounds like Mr. Horn will be aquitted and the 911 tape will prove it.
I don't see a problem with it..... Everyone knows the rules of engagement in Texas SO the robbers then decided to take their lives into their own hands by committing the robbery knowing full well someone could LEGALLY come out blasting. THEREFORE IMHO the robbers killed themselves.
Ignorance of the law is no defense ;) ;)
Everyone in Texas probably knows about the redneck laws so only a dumbass would commit a crime that could result in getting themselves shot..;)
Shiat we need this law in Cali. We can't even carry a loaded gun in Cali let alone discharge one. In Frisco you now have to let the robber shot you first before you are justified in defending yourself.
Texas is right... the "smart" crooks will think twice before committing a property crime. and the dumb-ass crooks will just be used for target practice.....:devil:
SECTION 3. Section 9.32, Penal Code, is amended to read as follows:
Sec. 9.32. DEADLY FORCE IN DEFENSE OF PERSON.
(a) A person is justified in using deadly force against another:
(1) if the actor would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.31; and when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to protect the actor against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful deadly force; or
(B) to prevent the other's imminent commission of aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery.
(b) The actor's belief under Subsection (a)(2) that the deadly force was immediately necessary as described by that subdivision is presumed to be reasonable if the actor:
(1) knew or had reason to believe that the person against whom the deadly force was used:
(A) unlawfully and with force entered, or was attempting to enter unlawfully and with force, the actor's occupied habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment;
(B) unlawfully and with force removed, or was attempting to remove unlawfully and with force, the actor from the actor's habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment; or
(C) was committing or attempting to commit an offense described by Subsection (a)(2)(B);
(2) did not provoke the person against whom the force was used; and
(3) was not otherwise engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating traffic at the time the force was used.
(c) A person who has a right to be present at the location where the deadly force is used, who has not provoked the person against whom the deadly force is used, and who is not engaged in criminal activity at the time the deadly force is used is not required to retreat before using deadly force as described by this section.
(d) For purposes of Subsection (a)(2), in determining whether an actor described by Subsection (c) reasonably believed that the use of deadly force was necessary, a finder of fact may not consider whether the actor failed to retreat

[Nicked prop]

Can't say I would have shot those two guys, but it sounds to me like they thought what they were stealing was worth dying for. I guess they were right.

[Tremor Therapy]

Can't say I would have shot those two guys, but it sounds to me like they thought what they were stealing was worth dying for. I guess they were right.
This is the best line in this thread for sure!

[Sleeper CP]

I'm not disputing that these guy's weren't P'sOS. Does some a**hole driving through a school zone at 100 mph, deserve to be shot and killed? Does a shoplifter deserve to be shot and killed? Does a man who has an affair with another mans wife deserve to be shot and killed? You might answer yes to all of these, but the law doesn't support death as punishment for these crimes as it doesn't for B&E. I wasn't there so I will not pass judgement but based on the 911 tapes, it didn't sound if Horn's safety was as risk.
.
As a matter of fact yes, If some a$$hole is driving in a school zone at 100mph I'll shoot the bastard. In the Lakeside area about 8 yrs. ago two kids about 9 yrs(3rd-4th grade) old got killed walking home from school because some POS was joy riding in a stolen truck. He hit them at about 65 mph about 4 blocks from school. YES I WOUlD SHOOT THE POS DEAD. I'll even pay for the bullet's.
Well, if you catch a man in your house in bed with your wife, yes they both might get shot. But the same would then hold true if she caught you. So you
better understand the rules of the game before the wedding day.:idea:
Sleeper CP
Big Inch Ford Lover

[ULTRA26 # 1]

As a matter of fact yes, If some a$$hole is driving in a school zone at 100mph I'll shoot the bastard. In the Lakeside area about 8 yrs. ago two kids about 9 yrs(3rd-4th grade) old got killed walking home from school because some POS was joy riding in a stolen truck. He hit them at about 65 mph about 4 blocks from school. YES I WOUlD SHOOT THE POS DEAD. I'll even pay for the bullet's.
Well, if you catch a man in your house in bed with your wife, yes they both might get shot. But the same would then hold true if she caught you. So you
better understand the rules of the game before the wedding day.:idea:
Sleeper CP
Big Inch Ford Lover
Scp,
That's why I brought up the school zone example. I am extremely protective of children, and I have felt like shooting someone a few times for doing this Although you say "If some a$$hole is driving in a school zone at 100mph I'll shoot the bastard" I seriously doubt that you would. I don't see you as the type to spend years in prison.

[Biglue]

Man I miss his place. :D

[asch]

Shoot the thievin' bastards... kill em. This country has turned into a bunch of wimps that have no fukkin' rights! No property is worth it? Typical mindset! :rolleyes: Criminals should have no rights, except the right to be put to death!:mad:
That's some good ol' common sense right there!
Oh yeah....God Bless Texas!

[ratso]

Man I miss his place. :D
Rarely a dull moment...:D

[Old Texan]

After thinking this over, I've come to a conclusion on the difference of having Joe Horn for a neighbor here in TX or my Liberal friend Ultra John in CA. If my house was burglarized, both would help me out, just in different ways.
Joe Horn would shoot the thieves on the spot and save my possesions and a long wait for insurance money. People would know thieves weren't welcome in our neighborhood and we would live a more peaceful existance.
UJ26 would quicly hire a moving van and a couple of strong backed movers to help the thieves get away safely through the school zones eliminating needing a speeding getaway car, the hired labor would keep the thieves from hurting their backs and suing me for "too heavy loot", and after the fact UJ would be their to recommend a good counselor to help me deal with the trauma of having my domain violated and to help me understand F---ing Thieves have feelings too and I should be considerate of their tough upbringing and I really do have enough stuff that I should learn to share.......And for good measure UJ would help me locate a good civil law attorney in case the thieves took me to court when they found some of my stuff was "Made in China" and didn't bring top dollar on the Black Market meaning the poor basturds would have to increase their average breakins per day to maintian a solid growth in their bottom line.
That folks is the difference between living in TX and CA......Happy Thanksgiving to all.:D :devil:

[Devilman]

Old Texan, that sounds just about like the joke I posted in #105...:D :D
"Made in China"
lol :D

[Old Texan]

Old Texan, that sounds just about like the joke I posted in #105...:D :D
"Made in China"
lol :D
That wasn't a joke, that was real.:D :D
Your post was my inspiration to see the reality of it all.:devil:

[4trax]

After thinking this over, I've come to a conclusion on the difference of having Joe Horn for a neighbor here in TX or my Liberal friend Ultra John in CA. If my house was burglarized, both would help me out, just in different ways.
Joe Horn would shoot the thieves on the spot and save my possesions and a long wait for insurance money. People would know thieves weren't welcome in our neighborhood and we would live a more peaceful existance.
UJ26 would quicly hire a moving van and a couple of strong backed movers to help the thieves get away safely through the school zones eliminating needing a speeding getaway car, the hired labor would keep the thieves from hurting their backs and suing me for "too heavy loot", and after the fact UJ would be their to recommend a good counselor to help me deal with the trauma of having my domain violated and to help me understand F---ing Thieves have feelings too and I should be considerate of their tough upbringing and I really do have enough stuff that I should learn to share.......And for good measure UJ would help me locate a good civil law attorney in case the thieves took me to court when they found some of my stuff was "Made in China" and didn't bring top dollar on the Black Market meaning the poor basturds would have to increase their average breakins per day to maintian a solid growth in their bottom line.
That folks is the difference between living in TX and CA......Happy Thanksgiving to all.:D :devil:
LMFAO:D Well said!

[ULTRA26 # 1]

After thinking this over, I've come to a conclusion on the difference of having Joe Horn for a neighbor here in TX or my Liberal friend Ultra John in CA. If my house was burglarized, both would help me out, just in different ways.
Joe Horn would shoot the thieves on the spot and save my possesions and a long wait for insurance money. People would know thieves weren't welcome in our neighborhood and we would live a more peaceful existance.
UJ26 would quicly hire a moving van and a couple of strong backed movers to help the thieves get away safely through the school zones eliminating needing a speeding getaway car, the hired labor would keep the thieves from hurting their backs and suing me for "too heavy loot", and after the fact UJ would be their to recommend a good counselor to help me deal with the trauma of having my domain violated and to help me understand F---ing Thieves have feelings too and I should be considerate of their tough upbringing and I really do have enough stuff that I should learn to share.......And for good measure UJ would help me locate a good civil law attorney in case the thieves took me to court when they found some of my stuff was "Made in China" and didn't bring top dollar on the Black Market meaning the poor basturds would have to increase their average breakins per day to maintian a solid growth in their bottom line.
That folks is the difference between living in TX and CA......Happy Thanksgiving to all.:D :devil:
I wouldn't have shot them. You are right about that part, at least
Happy Thanksgiving oh great man of comedy from Texas :D :D

[3 daytona`s]

Don't roll your eyes at me mister.:sqeyes:
Really very interesting? I read once about this deal called White Collar Crime,or maybe heard it on the internet.

[Oldschool427]

This is what happens when cops CAN'T do there job there job. The where waiting for permission from the ACLU, before leaving station.

[sorry dog]

I'd like to know what Brown thinks about this one....
Most points on the issue have been covered but I gots a couple to add...
One thing that makes breaking into a home different is that those who are going to do it (even the dumb ones) know that there is potential for confrontation. The less violent ones may choose to take the risk or hit targets where there is less chance of this, BUT some of crazier theives may choose to arm themselves in case this happens. I've met enough young and dumb low lifes that place low value on their own life and throw guns around like they are badasses.
The homeowner (or neighbor in this case) usually doesn't have a way to determine what kind of person they are dealing with...and the way the law reads it's better to killem dead and only leave one side of the story.
Anybody here read the bible... go take a look in Genesis... One of the women of Jacob's clan got raped and her brothers later planned and killed every guy in the whole damn town the raper was from. Yet...God Blessed them again and again.
BTW - if I lived in Houston...I'd have a much more aggressive mindset. That place near got out outta control New Orleans style a few years back.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Anybody here read the bible... go take a look in Genesis... One of the women of Jacob's clan got raped and her brothers later planned and killed every guy in the whole damn town the raper was from. Yet...God Blessed them again and again. .
Somehow I find it absurd for you to claim that God blesses anyone for killing innocent men.

[ratso]

Somehow I find it absurd for you to claim that God blesses anyone for killing innocent men.
Wait til B&B gets hold of this...:D

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Wait til B&B gets hold of this...:D
:D :D

[Tremor Therapy]

Wait til B&B gets hold of this...:D
Oh Ratso, you bastard! ;) :D

[sorry dog]

Somehow I find it absurd for you to claim that God blesses anyone for killing innocent men.
Not what I said.
I said they were blessed afterward.
...but still happens today... don't we bless people right before zap'em to death in electric chairs?
Be Blessed my Brother.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Not what I said.
I said they were blessed afterward.
...but still happens today... don't we bless people right before zap'em to death in electric chairs?
Be Blessed my Brother.
Anybody here read the bible... go take a look in Genesis... One of the women of Jacob's clan got raped and her brothers later planned and killed every guy in the whole damn town the raper was from. Yet...God Blessed them again and again. .
This is what you said. Sorry if I misunderstood.

[westair]

Just heard an update on Joe Horn: No charges have been filed yet and they don't know if they will. His only problem is that in Texas it is legal to shoot someone for burglarizing property but only at night. This was at 2:00 pm,
however finding a jury to convict him in Texas will be difficult. He has since left town with his wife. Good luck Joe

[Devilman]

Just heard an update on Joe Horn: No charges have been filed yet and they don't know if they will. His only problem is that in Texas it is legal to shoot someone for burglarizing property but only at night. This was at 2:00 pm,
however finding a jury to convict him in Texas will be difficult. He has since left town with his wife. Good luck Joe
Only at night? :confused:
LOL, I'm pretty sure you can waste somebody (under the proper circumstances, of course) no matter what time of day it is... :idea:

[Old Texan]

Just heard an update on Joe Horn: No charges have been filed yet and they don't know if they will. His only problem is that in Texas it is legal to shoot someone for burglarizing property but only at night. This was at 2:00 pm,
however finding a jury to convict him in Texas will be difficult. He has since left town with his wife. Good luck Joe
It's the "5 O'clock somewhere law", or in Texas, "It's nighttime somewhere"....:devil:

[westair]

Only at night? :confused:
LOL, I'm pretty sure you can waste somebody (under the proper circumstances, of course) no matter what time of day it is... :idea:
I didn't quite understand the night thing either, but if you feel your life is in danger I'm sure it doesn't matter what time of day it is in Texas. The only problem with Joe was his life was never in danger but had he shot them at night he would have been better off, but hey get em when you can!!