Sean Taylor, Strong words by Jason Whitlock

[thatguy]

Pretty interesting and provacitive read. And SO true, IMHO.
Tommy
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7499442?MSNHPHCP&GT1=10637

[Trailer Park Casanova]

Quote:
"No disrespect to Taylor, but he controlled the way he would be remembered by the way he lived. His immature, undisciplined behavior with his employer, his run-ins with law enforcement, which included allegedly threatening a man with a loaded gun, and the fact a vehicle he owned was once sprayed with bullets are all pertinent details when you've been murdered."
Well written, well said very good points.

[thatguy]

I like Jason Whitlock, but he tends to paint every situation with the same wide brush.
Agreed, But I did find his connection about rap "glorifying" the very problems that are hurting his race to be on the mark.
My teenage stepkids play it and I find it very disturbing and anti-progressive. There is no doubt that the only ones who benifit from rap are the so called artists. My generation had rock and my parents HATED my Led Zep, Sabbath, etc. BUT that music did not glorify abuse to women, murder and cop killing.
We got jobs, spoke english and eventually even quit smoking pot!
(And our pants more or less fit us) I feel rap is a big reason that kids today have no concept of mortality. That and "Grand theft auto" on the playstation.
Tommy

[you gots 2 chill]

I agree with Jason and Bill Cosby. I also agree with Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson (If you ever listen to there entire speeches and not soundbites, you find that that they agree with Jason and Bill Cosby as well. The difference being that they also include the role white people play).
I also agree about the negative influences in Hip-Hop, but if you think the artists are the only ones capitolizing you are sadly mistaken. The record companies (owned by white people) are making a killing.
What happened to Sean Taylor is still a shame.

[pancho]

Wow,provocative and i`m sure dimissed in the long run,probably hurt the man`s career, too bad!i think the envy road is open to all,most peeps dont resort to violence to make themselves feel like things are square again but who am i to say,i can say i`ve seen plenty of instances where someone tried to take down someone else just to feel better about themselves.

[thatguy]

I agree with Jason and Bill Cosby. I also agree with Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson (If you ever listen to there entire speeches and not soundbites, you find that that they agree with Jason and Bill Cosby as well. The difference being that they also include the role white people play).
I also agree about the negative influences in Hip-Hop, but if you think the artists are the only ones capitolizing you are sadly mistaken. The record companies (owned by white people) are making a killing.
What happened to Sean Taylor is still a shame.
I was refering to the end user. My Zep and whatnot meant the world to me growing up. I gleaned insight and perspective, in many ways, listening to my headphones. It was a little ugly in my parents house and my music and headphones were my sanctuary. I always viewed Ozzy's music as warnings, not persuasion. Zepplin had a song to explain to me almost every situation I found myself in. If not, I could always drop the needle on "The Wizard" by Uriah Heep and sleep comforably knowing someone was up there. What positive influence can cop-killer rap possibly have for todays youth?
I know that you agree about rap, just clarifying.
Tommy

[CornWater]

That's a perfect comparison, two of the whitest black people in the world. ;)
Speaking proper english makes you one of the whitest black people in the world? Pretty much the foundation for the article. Keepin' it real... real dumb.
:rolleyes:

[rrrr]

I agree with Jason and Bill Cosby. I also agree with Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson (If you ever listen to there entire speeches and not soundbites, you find that that they agree with Jason and Bill Cosby as well. The difference being that they also include the role white people play).
I also agree about the negative influences in Hip-Hop, but if you think the artists are the only ones capitolizing you are sadly mistaken. The record companies (owned by white people) are making a killing.
What happened to Sean Taylor is still a shame.
So your statements prove what Whitlock is saying......deflect responsibility away from the facts. Blame it on Whitey.
Are the record company owners the ones writing the lyrics, calling woman w hores and bitches and talking about murder? Are the record company owners pulling the trigger?
You need to read the article and take a look around you.

[you gots 2 chill]

So your statements prove what Whitlock is saying......deflect responsibility away from the facts. Blame it on Whitey.
Are the record company owners the ones writing the lyrics, calling woman w hores and bitches and talking about murder? Are the record company owners pulling the trigger?
You need to read the article and take a look around you.
I'm not deflecting anything. Read my comments again. I said I agree with him and Cosby. I just added others I agree with, because it is not a simple problem. The problem has to be fixed from within first but whitey does hold some responsiblilty. And the people around me are all moral god fearing and quite successful.

[BajaMike]

Pretty interesting and provacitive read. And SO true, IMHO.
Tommy
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7499442?MSNHPHCP&GT1=10637
Great, well writen article!
:idea:

[thatguy]

That's a perfect comparison, two of the whitest black people in the world. ;)
I think that statement sort of sums up his point. If a black man chooses not to be a "gangsta", then he is called a "whitey" or "Uncle Tom". If He chooses to be mainstream or succesful he is a "sellout".
Bill Cosby can be pretty condemming of his own race, but I think He is sincere in his frustration about it. It is the "gangsta" attitude that prolongs segregation of the races and promotes the continuation of racism, IMHO.
Tommy

[WestTNRiverRat]

He hit the nail on the head....with a sledgehammer.
Too bad the ones that need to read this probably can't read.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

If you've ever read anything by Jason Whitlock, you know he's called Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton terrorists. I read Jason all the time. I find him exploitive of his own people in reverse of what Jackson and Sharpton are doing. I guess everybody has to make a buck their own way.
Here's the difference, in my mind. Sean Taylor basically had one run in with the law, two years ago, as a 22 year old. He was charged with brandishing a weapon at a guy that had supposedly stolen his quad. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but just about everybody on ***boat would have actually killed the person that stole their quad, not just pulled a gun on them. That charge, incidentally, was eventually pled out as a misdemeanor. So, it's alright for white, boat owners to kill a thief or shoot an unarmed, suspected burglar of their neighbors home in the back with a shotgun, but a 22 year old black NFL player can't protect his property with a gun. That other stuff that Whitlock talks about is hyperbole. The car that was "riddled" with bullets didn't even belong to him anymore. His on the field "problems" included hitting people too hard with his helmet, so he's basically Rodney Harrison.
Jason Whitlock did his usual slash and burn, tabloid style of journalism using a dead father as his subject and interjecting whatever "facts" he found appropriate to prove his point. I've said many times that education is the key and I agree with many of the points he made in that regard. The fact is, I don't know what happened to Sean Taylor, neither does Jason Whitlock. I didn't know the man, and neither did Jason Whitlock.
SWB, good post

[DEMOMAN]

SWB, pretty much hit the nail on the head.

[WestTNRiverRat]

I've never read any Jason Whitlock and don't know anything about the personal life of Sean Taylor but what the man wrote about the Black KKK is right on the money. Memphis is a city of about 700,000 people about 60% black. Last year we had over 140 murders. All black on black crime except for 2 white kids that were killed by their crackhead cousin for some money the girl had inherited. So far this year 126 murders, all black on black except for one white guy that was murdered with another black guy by a black guy in a drug deal gone bad. Never hear anything from our black mayor or the black city council members about this black on black crime. As a matter of fact the FBI just named our city the second most dangerous city to live in and our mayors' response "We don't have a crime problem."
Back this summer a cop in West Memphis,AR right across the river, answered a call about a possible burglary. It's just after midnight when the officer makes the scene and catches two suspects at the rear of the house. They flee and the officer tells them to halt. One of the suspects stops, turns and pulls a gun on the officer and he fires killing the suspect. Turns out it is a 12 year old kid with a toy pistol. Well the blacks went on a riot, boycotted the schools for 3 days, Al Sharpton came to town and gave a hate filled speech,
blah,blah,blah.
Nevermind that 5 miles away 10 blacks a month are being murdered. That's different, whitey ain't killing them, black people are.
So now the boy's momma is suing the city for 125 million.
The boys daddy, that had not seen the boy for 10 years, is suing for 150 million
And the parents of the 14 y/o that was with him is suing for 100 million.
And last week the official investigation ruled the shooting justifiable.
So yea, I agree 100% with his view of the problem.
Lack of a structured family and lack of education being the main problems.
But I'm sure that can be blamed on whitey too. :(

[Old Texan]

If you've ever read anything by Jason Whitlock, you know he's called Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton terrorists. I read Jason all the time. I find him exploitive of his own people in reverse of what Jackson and Sharpton are doing. I guess everybody has to make a buck their own way.
Here's the difference, in my mind. Sean Taylor basically had one run in with the law, two years ago, as a 22 year old. He was charged with brandishing a weapon at a guy that had supposedly stolen his quad. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but just about everybody on ***boat would have actually killed the person that stole their quad, not just pulled a gun on them. That charge, incidentally, was eventually pled out as a misdemeanor. So, it's alright for white, boat owners to kill a thief or shoot an unarmed, suspected burglar of their neighbors home in the back with a shotgun, but a 22 year old black NFL player can't protect his property with a gun. That other stuff that Whitlock talks about is hyperbole. The car that was "riddled" with bullets didn't even belong to him anymore. His on the field "problems" included hitting people too hard with his helmet, so he's basically Rodney Harrison.
Jason Whitlock did his usual slash and burn, tabloid style of journalism using a dead father as his subject and interjecting whatever "facts" he found appropriate to prove his point. I've said many times that education is the key and I agree with many of the points he made in that regard. The fact is, I don't know what happened to Sean Taylor, neither does Jason Whitlock. I didn't know the man, and neither did Jason Whitlock.
SWB's quote in the previous thread "Redskin's Player Shot":
I guarantee you, if Sean Taylor was involved, they weren't robbers or burglars. He knew them and he probably deserved to get shot.
Now Jason Whitlock's the "Tabloid Journalist" being blasted for "not knowing Sean Taylor" and jumping to conclusions???????
SWB I'll give you that later in the thread you somewhat recanted when you heard he died, but I spy a bit of hypocrisy in your accessment of Whitlock and personally feel Black men like him speaking out against the problems within the Black community are the only way those problems will be solved. He is a "journalist" and he is entitled to his opinions being used to make a living. In your view the only black voices that should be heard are those with no financial stake to their comments?
Jackson and Sharpton whether taken out of context or not, aren't the solutions for the problems facing the Black community and they do far more to widen the void between races than they do to bring everyone together. Plus they both seem to be exploiting the racial tension for personal gains far more than Whitlock.

[thatguy]

SWB, I always respect your posts and think your points are usually very knowledgeable and informative.
I think that if you re-read mine, you will see that I don't think I mention Sean Taylor, except for the title.
Yes, Whitlock used him as the catalyst for his "editorial", and that is typical of him. But the substance of his words are what I am commenting on. :)
Tommy
PS- Racism and shakedowns is Jesse Jacksons business. I believe him to be an enemy of his race. He uses his own people to sensationalize for profit. IMHO

[OKIE-JET]

SWB's quote in the previous thread "Redskin's Player Shot":
Now Jason Whitlock's the "Tabloid Journalist" being blasted for "not knowing Sean Taylor" and jumping to conclusions???????
SWB I'll give you that later in the thread you somewhat recanted when you heard he died, but I spy a bit of hypocrisy in your accessment of Whitlock and personally feel Black men like him speaking out against the problems within the Black community are the only way those problems will be solved. He is a "journalist" and he is entitled to his opinions being used to make a living. In your view the only black voices that should be heard are those with no financial stake to their comments?
Jackson and Sharpton whether taken out of context or not, aren't the solutions for the problems facing the Black community and they do far more to widen the void between races than they do to bring everyone together. Plus they both seem to be exploiting the racial tension for personal gains far more than Whitlock.
Exactly what I was thinking.:idea:

[rrrr]

The problem has to be fixed from within first but whitey does hold some responsiblilty.
You know, at some point the black community needs to draw a line and say "This is OUR fualt, and WE have to fix it". These vague references that whites are responsible for everything are crap.
Assuming the murderer(s) were black, how would white people have anything to do with Taylor being shot? How was racism involved?
There are some asshole racists out there, but there are many more people that look at a person and don't see a color.

[thatguy]

I agree with Jason and Bill Cosby. I also agree with Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson (If you ever listen to there entire speeches and not soundbites, you find that that they agree with Jason and Bill Cosby as well. The difference being that they also include the role white people play).
I also agree about the negative influences in Hip-Hop, but if you think the artists are the only ones capitolizing you are sadly mistaken. The record companies (owned by white people) are making a killing.
What happened to Sean Taylor is still a shame.
Oh, you must mean like this record company?
Authorities Raid Rap Record Company In Murder Investigation
November 14, 2002
ABCNews.com
Rap music mogul Marion "Suge" Knight's record company was raided by authorities Thursday as they served 17 warrants in two states related to several homicides and conspiracy to commit murder.
"The kinds of people that we have warrants for are wanted for very serious crimes. There is some connection to Tha Row Records." said sheriff's deputy Darren Harris.
Knight, who runs the record company formerly known as Death Row Records, was not considered a suspect in the investigation, said Los Angeles County sheriff's spokeswoman Alba Yates.
However, he and his record label have been at the center of an East Coast-West Coast rap feud that police believe has led to the unsolved shooting deaths of two major stars over the past six years.
Knight was riding with Shakur in a car after attending a 1996 Mike Tyson fight at a Las Vegas hotel when another vehicle pulled alongside and someone opened fire, killing Shakur. Knight has said he couldn't see who fired the shots.
Now I don't know "Suge" but I have seen him in pictures. He is the Blackest white record company owner I have ever seen. Your statement above is ridiculous. It is that very type of rhetoric that Whitlock is talking about. The fact is Rap, and hip hop, are being run if possible by Black owned labels. A rap "artist" will be scorned if signing with "whitey", maybe even shot.
Just another tool in the black racist handbook.

[MBlaster]

Sorry SWB, Taylor had no right to pull out the heater on the quad thief. And if you think the majority of HB'rs would aim down on a quad thief you are wrong. I'd think we have more sence than to go gangsta over some "thing".
Unless my life or the life of a family member was at stake I would never go to battery.

[77Woodbridge]

You know, at some point the black community needs to draw a line and say "This is OUR fualt, and WE have to fix it". These vague references that whites are responsible for everything are crap.
Assuming the murderer(s) were black, how would white people have anything to do with Taylor being shot? How was racism involved?
There are some asshole racists out there, but there are many more people that look at a person and don't see a color.
Just what i was thinking.

[you gots 2 chill]

Oh, you must mean like this record company?
Authorities Raid Rap Record Company In Murder Investigation
November 14, 2002
ABCNews.com
Rap music mogul Marion "Suge" Knight's record company was raided by authorities Thursday as they served 17 warrants in two states related to several homicides and conspiracy to commit murder.
"The kinds of people that we have warrants for are wanted for very serious crimes. There is some connection to Tha Row Records." said sheriff's deputy Darren Harris.
Knight, who runs the record company formerly known as Death Row Records, was not considered a suspect in the investigation, said Los Angeles County sheriff's spokeswoman Alba Yates.
However, he and his record label have been at the center of an East Coast-West Coast rap feud that police believe has led to the unsolved shooting deaths of two major stars over the past six years.
Knight was riding with Shakur in a car after attending a 1996 Mike Tyson fight at a Las Vegas hotel when another vehicle pulled alongside and someone opened fire, killing Shakur. Knight has said he couldn't see who fired the shots.
Now I don't know "Suge" but I have seen him in pictures. He is the Blackest white record company owner I have ever seen. Your statement above is ridiculous. It is that very type of rhetoric that Whitlock is talking about. The fact is Rap, and hip hop, are being run if possible by Black owned labels. A rap "artist" will be scorned if signing with "whitey", maybe even shot.
Just another tool in the black racist handbook.
Rappers and record companies that profit from irresponsible and violent images are all part of the problem. There is no black owned record label that isn't distributed by a white parent company. NONE.
While some hip hop is contributing to the problem it is by no means the only contributing factor. As I said, I agree with most of what Jason Witlock and Bill Cosby have said about what needs to be done in the black community. I know that there are also external factors invoved. The problems facing the Black community are the same problems facing the American culture at large.
That comment about being shot if you sign with "whitey" is the dumbest shit I have ever heard.
A man being killed while at home with his girlfriend and child is sad and has nothing at all to do with rap music.

[Moneypitt]

I think I read where there was a previous break in, nothing taken, but a knife left on the bed.......The name Bobbit ring any bells?......Then he gets shot in the groin, and bleeds out due to Artery damage.....I don't recall any other break ins where the home owner was shot in the groin lately......Maybe we're overlooking the possibilty it was a female shooter.......With a mission.....MP

[Old Texan]

I think I read where there was a previous break in, nothing taken, but a knife left on the bed.......The name Bobbit ring any bells?......Then he gets shot in the groin, and bleeds out due to Artery damage.....I don't recall any other break ins where the home owner was shot in the groin lately......Maybe we're overlooking the possibilty it was a female shooter.......With a mission.....MP
I've heard this same theory several times now. Someone claimed a little extra curricular activity had been going on. But that's all rumor and we won't know until the police do their thing. Sad story anyway it plays out.
I also heard that during the first breakin some lock drawers and doors had been "jimmied" using a knife. My thought was the burglar had the kitchen knife in the bedroom for that purpose and just left it behind.
The problem with fame is the media won't go away even when you're gone.

[77Woodbridge]

I agree with most of what has been said here. IMHO, situations like this wrench out such strong emotions because of the frustration that everyone posting...black, white and other :D have over trying to rationalize an irrational subculture.
A subculture that has many advocates doing all that they can to propogate drug use/sales, abuse of women, disregard for human life, disrespect for authority, work as a means to an end and you write in any other fundamental building block for a healthy society.
A sane person can not rationalize what is insane.
Do not support any music, video, games or other subversive "art forms", by allowing your children to purchase, listen to, view or play it.
Obviously when you aren't around you have no control, but make it known that it's a cancer that will pioson them.

[OutCole'd]

Anyone see the interview of Quinton "Rampage" Jackson about this? Talking about if you're Black and call 911, you better sound white or you're going to die. He was saying that "who dies from a gun shot to the leg?" It was a pretty funny interview. The guy has no clue.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Sorry SWB, Taylor had no right to pull out the heater on the quad thief. And if you think the majority of HB'rs would aim down on a quad thief you are wrong. I'd think we have more sence than to go gangsta over some "thing".
Unless my life or the life of a family member was at stake I would never go to battery.
Apparently you haven't read the threads about Joe Horn, the guy from TX who recently shot and killed 2 guys who had robbed his neighbors house. SWB, was referring to the 95% of all of the folks on HB who refer to Mr Horn as a hero. Mr. Horn fired his shotgun 3 times at the burglars after being to told not go outside or to shoot over 10 times by the 911 operator. SWB no doubt agrees with your position, as do I.
http://www.***boat.com/forums/showthread.php?t=170727&highlight=texas

[thatguy]

Rappers and record companies that profit from irresponsible and violent images are all part of the problem. There is no black owned record label that isn't distributed by a white parent company. NONE.
While some hip hop is contributing to the problem it is by no means the only contributing factor. As I said, I agree with most of what Jason Witlock and Bill Cosby have said about what needs to be done in the black community. I know that there are also external factors invoved. The problems facing the Black community are the same problems facing the American culture at large.
That comment about being shot if you sign with "whitey" is the dumbest shit I have ever heard.
A man being killed while at home with his girlfriend and child is sad and has nothing at all to do with rap music.
I see that we are basically in agreement, with just some arguing about details. I do feel that there is more to the Sean Taylor incident than we know. I am not trying to connect him and rap in the least. Whitlock just used this as a jumping in point for his statements.
I was just reading an article yesterday about the business of rap labels. It showed examples and had some quotes from those in the "Biz" about how White owned companies were trying to, and succeeding in, profiting from Black artists. Just as you stated. There was some very strong statements from Black producers and also Black rappers about how any Black artists signing a deal with a White owned interest would be thought of, and also how they would be "discouraged" from doing so. (If I can find the link I will post it)
So my statement about possibly getting shot is by no means dumb or ignorant.
Even if your statement is true about White distribution, and I have no evidence to the contrary, it only reinforces the sentiment that Black on Black crime is racially self depreciating. ESPECIALLY when Whites with less than average moral fiber can profit from it.
So, is it really "Whiteys' fault if Blacks are enabling it? Or am I thinking backwards here?
I am not quite as good as some on here at writing my thoughts, and sometimes they come across inaccurate. I am pretty confidant that this is one of those times!:)
Tommy

[SHOTKALLIN]

That's a perfect comparison, two of the whitest black people in the world. ;)
IMO They are not white or acting white. Thats a statement that an ignorant black person would say right before calling them Uncle Toms. There are plenty of blacks that agree with Cosby and Whitlock and disagree with Sharpton and Jackson. The media focuses on the ignorance of blacks so often that it seems that blacks that have common sense are not the norm.
just my .02;)