When will diesels become more popular in performance boating?

[MagicMtnDan]

Diesel technology has been moving forward quickly especially since the first Gulf War.
I know diesels are used in a variety of ships and boats and I did see some (a first for me) at the boat show in LA in performance boats.
Audi just introduced their race diesel engine, a V10, that has the potential to set the racing world on it's ear (see below).
What's the future hold for diesels in performance boating?
The heart of the Audi R10 is a completely new V12 TDI engine with a cubic capacity of 5.5 litres – the maximum permitted at Le Mans. Audi ventures into previously unexplored diesel-engine terrain with power exceeding 650 hp and torque of more than 1100 Newton metres from the V12 power plant.
http://highlands.tbo.com/photos/HL0120AUDIR10.jpg
http://www.audi.com/etc/medialib/cms4imp/audi/emotion/motorsport/paris.Par.0018.Image.jpg.......................... .................................................. ......................................... http://www.audi.com/etc/medialib/cms4imp/audi/emotion/motorsport/paris.Par.0019.Image.jpg
Link to article (http://info.mgnetwork.com/printthispage.cgi?url=http%3A//www.highlandstoday.com/MGBRVI3MNIE.html&oaspagename=www.highlandstoday.com/story.htm&image=tbologo80x60.jpg)

[prosthogod]

I think when somebody comes up with a transmission small enough for a boat and that can handle the HP. Speed needs RPMs. my .o2

[Jordy]

I think when somebody comes up with a transmission small enough for a boat and that can handle the HP. Speed needs RPMs. my .o2
That and a drive that will handle 800+ ft lbs of torque at 2500 rpms. I looked into going that route with a Gun and Yanmars. Figure to get that boat moving, I'd be looking at #6's or Arnesons and would have more tied up in engines and drives than the boats I was looking at. Hard to justify it when you look at it that way. ;)

[buzzaro]

I was wondering this as well, and the initial cost may be higher. However the longevity and reliability might pay for itself down the road. With a diesel you prolly wont need a rebuild after 300hrs or less. And i would suspect that a diesel would get 30% better fuel economy. My full size diesel truck gets over 18mpg on the freeway while my toyota 4banger I had before it barely squeaked out 20mpg for 1/2 the weight. Will be interesting if any of the boat manufacturer start looking at it seriously and really testing and comparing different setups vs gasoline powerplants. Although the sound of a nice V8 will always be tough to beat.

[Jbb]

Bill Mazzoni in Delray Beach has a MTI with twin diesels and Arnesons.....runs over 100.....and he always brags about using less than a few hundred gallons of fuel during an entire Poker Run Weekend ....lol.....and they do A LOT of running.,..I will post pics of it later.....sounds and smells kinda funny Idling out of the marina though....lol

[Jordy]

Bill Mazzoni in Delray Beach has a MTI with twin diesels and Arnesons.....
My point exactly. Thanks JBB. ;)
p.s. RD SUX!!! :D

[Jbb]

My point exactly. Thanks JBB. ;)
p.s. RD SUX!!! :D
He also has...or had ...a big Fountain with Diesels/Arnesons...
Yes.......RD SUX!.....lol

[ROZ]

Hey, I heard somewhere that RD Sux... True? :D

[burtandnancy]

Majic, did you see the IMCO 44 at the boat show? Twin 480 HP Yanmars with their new SC1000 drives. With the trick bottom and all that torque it ought to run pretty well...

[LakeTrash]

I am in process of installing a 02 Cummins out of a Dodge in my 31' Warlock. Using a 2 speed ZF tranny and the #2 speedmaster off of the Eagle. Was going to use the Arneson shown in the pic but it had to move to the Eagle to handle the new turbine power.
We are hoping to build a nice cruiser that will stay together.
Should have it running in a month.
LT
http://airmasterstab.com/Cummins-2.JPG

[Tom Brown]

LT, are you going to run a linkage from the top of that shift handle to the cockpit? :D
Cool project. I hope you share some details of the work as it goes. :)

[Jbb]

This was Bill's diesel MTI at the Jacksonville Poker run....
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/860DSCF0043j4.JPG
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/860DSCF0060ll.JPG
Everybody was checkin it out.......Till this non diesel pulled in next to him... :p
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/860DSCF0049j4.JPG

[Jordy]

Those boats suck JBB. They're not even on a tilt trailer. :D :D :D

[DEEZ NUTTS]

I think about this too. Seems that a 2 speed tranny would be the ticket. The smell will be a problem but sound isnt if built on a Powerstroke or Duramax platform. Turbo V8 sound out the back.

[YeLLowBoaT]

http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/860DSCF0049j4.JPG
you Have too much spare cash lieing around.... :crossx:

[Jbb]

Those boats suck JBB. They're not even on a tilt trailer. :D :D :D
True......but the new one is!......coming to a Desert Heat near you... :)

[SoCalSouthpaw]

http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/860DSCF0049j4.JPG
WHAT IN THE F**K IS THAT??

[Jbb]

WHAT IN THE F**K IS THAT??
Its Miss Nortech.....of course.... :rolleyes:

[roostwear]

I worked with the inventor of the (what is now called) CVVT backin the 80s and that is perfect for a marine diesel application. Diesels don't like to be throttled just by their nature, so setting a fixed rpm and gearing to it works best. Changing the output rpm and using the torque of the engine would make bigger boats fly. Want more speed? Build more torque and increase your gearing.

[LakeTrash]

Don't need no 40 footer to have a tilt trailer.
http://airmasterstab.com/ET-154a.JPG

[RiverOtter]

Powerboat (or maybe it was ***boat) just did a test with 3 Eliminator 280 Eagles. 1 with a 350, 1 with a 496 and 1 with a Yanmar. At cruising speed the Yanmar got 6 mpg :jawdrop: . They still said the best overall buy was the 496 HO Mag though. Had WAY more topend than the others.

[MagicMtnDan]

WHAT IN THE F**K IS THAT??
OK, I'm not afraid to admit I'm not sure what's going on here (in this pic). I assume it's got two powerplants and each one has two drives. If that's correct, how does each motor connect to two drives? :confused:

[LUVNLIFE]

A few of us at work were talking about this at work. When you buy diesel at the dock is it red dye or do you not pay the highway tax and how much is it at the dock? Also wasn't there an Eliminator at the boat show with diesels? Does anyone remember the number they had up for mph?

[buzzaro]

Powerboat (or maybe it was ***boat) just did a test with 3 Eliminator 280 Eagles. 1 with a 350, 1 with a 496 and 1 with a Yanmar. At cruising speed the Yanmar got 6 mpg :jawdrop: . They still said the best overall buy was the 496 HO Mag though. Had WAY more topend than the others.
This was in the current issue of powerboat. And as far as the 496, it was really the only realistic choice as this was a 25' eagle. The 350 used was the 250hp (on a 25' boat?) the diesel they used had 315hp and the 496 was the 425hp version. I dont know if this made a difference or not, but with these two completely different motors they used the exact same prop. Im not a prop expert so this may have been the correct choice for both motors, but it just seemed strange. Givin the choices of power used in this test it would seem that 23' boats would have been a better choice. I was in Eliminator's showroom this weekend and the diesel powered boat is in there.

[RiverOtter]

This was in the current issue of powerboat. And as far as the 496, it was really the only realistic choice as this was a 25' eagle. The 350 used was the 250hp (on a 25' boat?) the diesel they used had 315hp and the 496 was the 425hp version. I dont know if this made a difference or not, but with these two completely different motors they used the exact same prop. Im not a prop expert so this may have been the correct choice for both motors, but it just seemed strange. Givin the choices of power used in this test it would seem that 23' boats would have been a better choice. I was in Eliminator's showroom this weekend and the diesel powered boat is in there.
I agree, why not a 350 Mag? Why not the 415 hp Yanmar? I guess gas mileage was the main point of the article. Even though the Yanmar got 6 mph compared to the 496's 3 mpg at cruising speed. I'd still opt for he 496. Hell, I'm used to getting 3 mpg.

[buzzaro]

I agree, why not a 350 Mag? Why not the 415 hp Yanmar? I guess gas mileage was the main point of the article. Even though the Yanmar got 6 mph compared to the 496's 3 mpg at cruising speed. I'd still opt for he 496. Hell, I'm used to getting 3 mpg.
No kidding, but to give the mileage a reasonable comparison they should give similar performance otherwise no ones gonna consider the better mileage if the performance gap is unreasonably large. A better comparison would have been perhaps a blown small block, the 415 yanmar, and the 496 HO. Three totally different approaches to get similar performance, that would have been a comparison that would have given useful information. With this comparison why didnt they test a wooden paddle too, im sure that would get awesome mileage, but the time to plane would leave something to be desired.

[RiverOtter]

No kidding, but to give the mileage a reasonable comparison they should give similar performance otherwise no ones gonna consider the better mileage if the performance gap is unreasonably large. A better comparison would have been perhaps a blown small block, the 415 yanmar, and the 496 HO. Three totally different approaches to get similar performance, that would have been a comparison that would have given useful information. With this comparison why didnt they test a wooden paddle too, im sure that would get awesome mileage, but the time to plane would leave something to be desired.
Coulda used a sail. Maybe even an egg beater :idea:

[spectras only]

My boat had a couple of merc diesels in it [ promo gig] . First set was 250's ,second set 300's . Engines went back to merc and I now have 6.2 MX's with the Bravo 1 X diesel drives. With the 1.65 ratio I run true 26 P Bravo 1 props no prob.
Wouldn't mind having the diesels [ to much $$$$$$] .http://www3.telus.net/spectrasonly/12001sidneypokerrun016-thumb.jpg
BTW , boat did 66 mph with the 300 hp diesels , a tad over 70 with the gas .
Boat is 25'7 8' beam with swimgrid , over 6500 lbs.

[Jbb]

OK, I'm not afraid to admit I'm not sure what's going on here (in this pic). I assume it's got two powerplants and each one has two drives. If that's correct, how does each motor connect to two drives? :confused:
Negative.....50 Nortech cat 4 1100's 4 #6 drives...a few more pics...
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/860DSCF0039.JPG
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/860DSCF0040j4.JPG
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/860DSCF0058ll.JPG
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/860DSCF0076j4.JPG
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/860DSCF0080j4.JPG
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/860DSCF0084j4.JPG
The guy who owns this boat made his fortune building hydraulic goodies to help those who are paralyzed cope with life better....in the next pic you will see a joystick....full hydraulic steering control thru that joystick,so his paralyzed friends could drive his boat...
comes in handy when docking too...He now ons a 50 ft cat with twin turbines...
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/860DSCF0051j4.JPG
Miss Nortech Video.. (http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/181DSCF0052.AVI)

[Froggystyle]

I think when somebody comes up with a transmission small enough for a boat and that can handle the HP. Speed needs RPMs. my .o2
That and a drive that will handle 800+ ft lbs of torque at 2500 rpms. I looked into going that route with a Gun and Yanmars. Figure to get that boat moving, I'd be looking at #6's or Arnesons and would have more tied up in engines and drives than the boats I was looking at. Hard to justify it when you look at it that way. ;)
and make it a dry sump so it can take the heat... If only...

[INSman]

There was a 50" Hustler with trip Yanmar diesels at Miami and it is supposed to be a runner !!! They better start putting diesel at the marinas !!

[Jordy]

They better start putting diesel at the marinas !!
The ocean marinas all have them, at least the ones I've been to as all the big fishing boats and yachts run on diesel. If you're trailering your rig and fill it up before you launch, with better mpg, how much fuel will you burn on a weekend? ;)

[INSman]

(4) Nortech 625's, unless he recently upgraded.
http://www.pokerrunsamerica.com/speedzone/SpeedZone_58.html

[Instigators]

Gale Banks is now building a twin turbo 6.6 Duramax based on the 2005 Duramax ( GM RPO Code LBZ ). Ported and Polished heads, new cam and remapped Bosch ECM. It Dynoed 748 HP @ 2850 RPM and 1178 lbs/ft torque @ 1600 RPM.
Here's my .02. Theoretically if you ran a 3-speed transmission due to lower engine RPM Band available from the engine ( 750-3250 RPM ), you should be able to run a Bravo Style drive as long as the transmissions high gear was a 50% overdrive. The 2 major problems will be, 1-will the drive and transmission take that much torque if you nail it and 2-Can you Not Nail It ? I wonder if an IMCO gear splitter would help solve part of the problem by transferring the torque to two drives instead of one?
The biggest problem I see so far is by the time I get all the Gear Splitters and Transmissions and Turbos and heavy diesel engine bolted in, Where the heck is all the Beer and Biatches going to sit ?

[Jordy]

Gale Banks is now building a twin turbo 6.6 Duramax based on the 2005 Duramax ( GM RPO Code LBZ ). Ported and Polished heads, new cam and remapped Bosch ECM. It Dynoed 748 HP @ 2850 RPM and 1178 lbs/ft torque @ 1600 RPM.
We had that conversation already today. Try and keep up:
http://www2.***boat.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107849
As far as the beers and biatches, they can sit in my boat. I've got all kinds of room. :D :D :D

[Instigators]

We had that conversation already today. Try and keep up:
http://www2.***boat.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107849
As far as the beers and biatches, they can sit in my boat. I've got all kinds of room. :D :D :D
Thanks Jordy. I think I had the mechanicals figured out but I knew you would certainly handle the logistics with the Biatches. That's your job and you do it very well.:rollside:

[Jbb]

(4) Nortech 625's, unless he recently upgraded.
http://www.pokerrunsamerica.com/speedzone/SpeedZone_58.html
those pics were from 2003

[HTRDLNCN]

I know of a 38' Magnum that was converted from side by side twin
425hpMercs/bravos to staggered triple 300hp Merc diesels (Powerstroke) +
Bravo3s . Maybe its because its a big,wide heavy boat but speed went from
the low 60ss to the mid 60s, cruising range almost tripled and time to plane is
roughly the same.Sound of all those turbos at full song is pretty neat as well.
You have to remember we have year round boating and a lot of people down
here cruise to the Bahamas or down to the Keys ,etc. Putting couple hundred
miles on an offshore speedboat in a typical weekend is not that uncommon.
At that point diesels make a whole lot more sense. I think in the coming years
at least on real offshore speed boats youll see a lot more diesels especially
with the newer lighter high speed diesels..
Diesel is available at almost all marinas here and there are also delivery
trucks that will fuel you up at home so long as you buy a set minimum (usually 150-200gal)

[centerhill condor]

hell of a boat.. nice pics and thank for posting them... :)

[buzzaro]

Unfortunately, if youre stick strictly to lakes it might be a while before you can get diesel at the marinas, most of them up north only carry one grade also, the bigger ones might have two grades.

[Jbb]

Couple of vids...Nice rooster tail.. (http://turbinemarine.se/filmer.html)

[572Daytona]

I'm thinking some of those big yellow guages would look good in the Cobra, what do you think, JBB?

[Jbb]

I'm thinking some of those big yellow guages would look good in the Cobra, what do you think, JBB?
What Cobra?.

[572Daytona]

What Cobra?.
Sold it already? What project are you working on now. How about project 572 Daytona?

[Jbb]

Sold it already? What project are you working on now. How about project 572 Daytona?
What Cobra?....who are you anyway...? :220v:

[572Daytona]

What Cobra?....who are you anyway...? :220v:
Hmm...maybe if I post some pictures I took over at Pro Boat it might help refresh your memory :boxed: So is the lawn green yet, or is it still dead, er dormant?

[Jbb]

Hmm...maybe if I post some pictures I took over at Pro Boat it might help refresh your memory :boxed: So is the lawn green yet, or is it still dead, er dormant?
oh.....That Cobra.......Yeah ..I went with the Rex marine multicolor display digital EMO series gauges...
Pics from Proboat ....of me yelling at the owner...lol no posting necessary
I still have to paint a boat for him...I will be ready for Project 572 within a month...or so...I got a plastic media blaster Im trying to make work....
....The grass is still brown.....just the way I like it....

[Keith E. Sayre]

the last time I rode in a diesel powered boat, I remember thinking that the
smell would be very unpleasant and the black sooty yuck on the back of the
boat seemed terrible to deal with. With the new improved injection and turbo
systems, are these two problems still issues? The last thing I want on a pleasure boat of anykind is to not be able to climb up on the back due to
too much greasy black oily stuff. Just wondering.
Keith Sayre

[572Daytona]

oh.....That Cobra.......Yeah ..I went with the Rex marine multicolor display digital EMO series gauges...
Pics from Proboat ....of me yelling at the owner...lol no posting necessary
I still have to paint a boat for him...I will be ready for Project 572 within a month...or so...I got a plastic media blaster Im trying to make work....
....The grass is still brown.....just the way I like it....
Blackmail will do it all the time. It will be a bit before I can take the cover off of the boat anyway, currently having part of the basement finished and there's about an inch of sawdust in the part where the boats are parked. Before that there was sheetrock dust everywhere. Damn wife and her projects :p
Good choice on the guages btw.

[Jbb]

Blackmail will do it all the time. It will be a bit before I can take the cover off of the boat anyway, currently having part of the basement finished and there's about an inch of sawdust in the part where the boats are parked. Before that there was sheetrock dust everywhere. Damn wife and her projects :p
Good choice on the guages btw.
"Blackmail"...Is such a strong word........BTW .....I have a few.....persuasion photo's of you ....and your buddie Sorry Dog in stock....from Gadsden....remember.... :p

[spectras only]

the last time I rode in a diesel powered boat, I remember thinking that the
smell would be very unpleasant and the black sooty yuck on the back of the
boat seemed terrible to deal with. With the new improved injection and turbo
systems, are these two problems still issues?
Keith Sayre
The diesels were in my boat a year before I bought it. However I remember , there wasn't any soot on the transom at all [ through hub exhaust ] when I checked it out during one of our pokerruns. Matter of fact , if it wasn't for the Mercruiser Diesel sticker on the side , no one realized that ,it was a diesel until it was pointed out. With through hub exhaust , it was quiet like a gas plant .
Back in the 80's a fellow I knew had a 38 Bertram ,he put diesels in and was smoking so bad [ through transom exhaust] you needed a mask :rolleyes: .
The same boat is owned by another guy now ,he keeps the boat in a slip down from my place .He replaced the smokers with newer Man diesels and KaMeWa jets . Don't see smoke out of it now. Awesome go anywhere/anytime boat ;)

[Twice]

http://www.turbinemarine.se/bilder/rearside.jpg
But is back in Florida for an extreme makeover.
The mission:
Replace the four V8:s with two High Performance turbines.
Year: 2002
Make: Nor-Tech
Model: Cat
Size: 50
Hours: 30
Hull Construction: Fiberglass
Hull Type: Cat
Cockpit: Pleasure
# of engines: 4
Engine (Make/Model): Nor-tech 925
Horsepower X 4: 925
Drive System: #6 Dry Sump
Fuel Capacity: 500 gallons
Fuel Type: Gas
Cruise Speed: 100 MPH
Top Speed: 140 MPH
Water Capacity: 65 gallons
L. O. A.: 50 ft
Beam: 12 ft
Draft: 3 ft 6 in
Weight: 16,000 lbs
Accommodations Layout:
3/4 cabin with twin berth over tunnel, Air Conditioning, STBD side head with shower and sink.
Electronics & Navigation Equipment:
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Mechanical Equipment & Engineering Details:
Stelling header with Borla in-line mufflers, Computer balanced drivelines, Bam Dry Sump transmissions,
battery charger with 110 volt shorepower, Gaffrig gagues, throttles and shifters, FOUR #6 dry sump drives, Lab finished five blade props.
Other Features:
ABSOLUTELY NO EXPENSE SPARED!
Visit for some movies and photos.
The site is under construction, an english version is on it´s way,
or just check out [URL=]http://www.turbinemarine.com (]http://www.turbinemarine.se[/URL)

[framer1]

Powerboat (or maybe it was ***boat) just did a test with 3 Eliminator 280 Eagles. 1 with a 350, 1 with a 496 and 1 with a Yanmar. At cruising speed the Yanmar got 6 mpg :jawdrop: . They still said the best overall buy was the 496 HO Mag though. Had WAY more topend than the others.
If I remember correctly the diesel top in was only in the forties. That a little to slow :)

[HTRDLNCN]

If I remember correctly the diesel top in was only in the forties. That a little to slow :)
Powerboat Magazine
March 2006
Page 72
350 / 250 hp gas 48mph / 2.7mpg@30 / 2.4mpg@48
254 / 315hp Diesel 52.6mph / 6mpg@30 / 3.5@52.6
496 / 425hp gas 68.2mph / 3mpg@30 / 2.5@68.2
Diesel was slower because they used an underpowered one for the boat.
Had they used a 400 Yanmar it would have been much closer.
In fact the whole test was skewed to the 496.
had they used a 300hp 5.7 or a 325hp 6.2 the 350
would have shown much better numbers as well.
Still for a 254 cubic inch V6 the diesel did pretty well.
Guess a lot of it would be determined by how much time you
spend total driving every weekend and how much at wot and how much cruising.
Diesels have good fuel effiency till almost WOT while gas
engines fall off sharply past 60-70%.
This means you can cruise at higher speeds for a longer time
even though your top end wont be as great.
Diesels can be run WOT all day long,and I do
mean all day long. Try that in a 496 and youll be
picking up pieces before very long.
They are both great tools for different jobs.
Diesels are more popular in offshore boats because unless its a very
calm day out there is no way you could run wot all the time in the
ocean and trips are a lot longer than just running down to the next cove.
I agree on a lake where your whole day might never exceed
an hour or two of runtime it doesnt make sense.
On my buddies 38 he used to spend $350 in fuel going from Miami
to Key West every other weekend, with the diesels he spends $90
and gets there quicker since he can run them harder for a longer time..
Adds up quick when boating weather is year round.
;)
PS: I cant afford the 496 or the diesel so Ill just stick with
my po ole 350... :D