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dirty old man
12-11-2007, 07:56 AM
So slow here, boring threads. So lets shake it up a little. What boat builders will be gone by '08 or at least by the Boat Show in LA? Not fair to vote on the few who have already pulled the plug

phebus
12-11-2007, 07:58 AM
Wow, that's only a two month window.
I'm sure that if someone speculates on a company folding, the thread will get pulled.

HM
12-11-2007, 07:59 AM
Let's start to name BNB's personalities....:) :) :)

C-2
12-11-2007, 08:08 AM
So slow here, boring threads. So lets shake it up a little. What boat builders will be gone by '08 or at least by the Boat Show in LA? Not fair to vote on the few who have already pulled the plug
If you wanna start a fight, ya gotta throw the first punch.
Who is your pick?:jawdrop:

boatsntoys
12-11-2007, 08:13 AM
Bayliner. If I mention anyone else this thread will get deleted QUICK!

OGShocker
12-11-2007, 08:15 AM
Let's start to name BNB's personalities....:) :) :)
LMFAO!!!

cxr133
12-11-2007, 08:30 AM
So slow here, boring threads. So lets shake it up a little. What boat builders will be gone by '08 or at least by the Boat Show in LA? Not fair to vote on the few who have already pulled the plug
How about this then...
who are the few that have already pulled the plug???
:idea:

dirty old man
12-11-2007, 09:31 AM
I'd predict that any manufacturer in Havasu for over 2 years is safe, a couple in So Cal are edgy including a few prominent names

shippingguy
12-11-2007, 09:35 AM
I'd predict that any manufacturer in Havasu for over 2 years is safe, a couple in So Cal are edgy including a few prominent names
You seem pretty sure some are going under why don't you name one or two?:idea:

Cole Trickle
12-11-2007, 09:42 AM
Did Commander move?
I drive by there shop to work everyday and there are no longer boats under the canopys between the building and the freeway. Shop looks very quiet?
Perhaps they moved them inside for the winter season?

HM
12-11-2007, 09:45 AM
Did Commander move?
I drive by there shop to work everyday and there are no longer boats under the canopys between the building and the freeway. Shop looks very quiet?
Perhaps they moved them inside for the winter season?
The banner on the side of the building says they moved to Perris which is where their factory is.

Cole Trickle
12-11-2007, 09:47 AM
The banner on the side of the building says they moved to Perris which is where their factory is.
Gotcha....I typically see the boats and the huge Got Cats banner. I haven't noticed the other:)

shippingguy
12-11-2007, 09:49 AM
Did Commander move?
I drive by there shop to work everyday and there are no longer boats under the canopys between the building and the freeway. Shop looks very quiet?
Perhaps they moved them inside for the winter season?
If you are gonna want to trade that Sleek in on a new Commander or just kick some tires you will have to drive to Perris now.:) :D

boatsntoys
12-11-2007, 09:52 AM
Lavey, Carrera, DCB, Essex, Howard, Advantage, Magic, Nordic, Caliber1, Cheetah, Adrenaline, Hallett, Placecraft, Dominator, renegade, Warlock, Commander, American offshore, Laser,e-ticket, HTM, Genesis, Cobra, Lightning, Dana, Ultra, aftershock, shockwave, Sleek, B+H Waterrod (isn't he gone already?)
Everyone except Trident, anyone who made it the last 5 years, spending gobs of money and only selling a few boats should have an easy time staying afloat the next 2 months.
There, that should end this thread

Brewzed
12-11-2007, 09:55 AM
I'll throw one out. I drive by this place at least 5 times a week. Team Hawaiian or as they are now known as "Powerboat Inc." I don't know how Wayne keeps it going over there. Looks like the inventory never move, always the same stuff out in the yard. I guess you can only change the name so many times before you have to drop Hawiian. Team Hawaiian, Hawaiian Power Boats, etc, etc. Now its just Powerboats.

Cole Trickle
12-11-2007, 10:06 AM
If you are gonna want to trade that Sleek in on a new Commander or just kick some tires you will have to drive to Perris now.:) :D
Thanks for the info...lol
No new boats for now...my equity line is already maxed out on Rhino bling and christmas decorations;)
Is perris out in the sticks by Murietta?:idea: :D

Froggystyle
12-11-2007, 10:10 AM
Lavey, Carrera, DCB, Essex, Howard, Advantage, Magic, Nordic, Caliber1, Cheetah, Adrenaline, Hallett, Placecraft, Dominator, renegade, Warlock, Commander, American offshore, Laser,e-ticket, HTM, Genesis, Cobra, Lightning, Dana, Ultra, aftershock, shockwave, Sleek, B+H Waterrod (isn't he gone already?)
Everyone except Trident, anyone who made it the last 5 years, spending gobs of money and only selling a few boats should have an easy time staying afloat the next 2 months.
There, that should end this thread
You see! My business philosophy of rarely selling but spending a ton of money is paying off! :D
Now, onto the next phase... the stock market.

HM
12-11-2007, 10:12 AM
You see! My business philosophy of rarely selling but spending a ton of money is paying off! :D
Now, onto the next phase... the stock market.
I got some real estate investments for ya. :D

shippingguy
12-11-2007, 10:13 AM
Thanks for the info...lol
No new boats for now...my equity line is already maxed out on Rhino bling and christmas decorations;)
Is perris out in the sticks by Murietta?:idea: :D
Up north more actually closer to Corona:D
BTW I feel you on the Christmas decorations:)

boatsntoys
12-11-2007, 10:15 AM
You see! My business philosophy of rarely selling but spending a ton of money is paying off! :D
Now, onto the next phase... the stock market.
Im right with you. but first, build some spec homes in Moreno Valley this year, then the stock market:D

dirty old man
12-11-2007, 10:20 AM
Forgot to throw Phoenix into the mix

Froggystyle
12-11-2007, 10:21 AM
Im right with you. but first, build some spec homes in Moreno Valley this year, then the stock market:D
I was actually thinking of some condo conversions first.
Funny thing, when I was raising money about four years ago for a manufacturing company (sustained return if successful) everyone I knew with money said "I am doubling my money every seven months doing condo conversions... can you match that return?"
Of course I said no.
Four years later, when we were raising money for the next phase of the project I went to the same folks and asked again. Now it was "Holy shit! I would love to, but I am about two million upside down in a condo project that I can't sell... we are thinking of turning them back into apartments in fact..."
Such is life...

boatsntoys
12-11-2007, 10:32 AM
Lavey, Carrera, DCB, Essex, Howard, Advantage, Magic, Nordic, Caliber1, Cheetah, Adrenaline, Hallett, Placecraft, Dominator, renegade, Warlock, Commander, American offshore, Laser,e-ticket, HTM, Genesis, Cobra, Lightning, Dana, Ultra, aftershock, shockwave, Sleek, B+H Waterrod (isn't he gone already?)
Everyone except Trident, anyone who made it the last 5 years, spending gobs of money and only selling a few boats should have an easy time staying afloat the next 2 months.
There, that should end this thread
I really don't believe anyone will go down before the boat show. A month or two after the show is a different story.

ChumpChange
12-11-2007, 10:53 AM
I was actually thinking of some condo conversions first.
Uh Oh!!!! :eek:

Froggystyle
12-11-2007, 11:19 AM
For everyone looking to go under there is a wealthy enthusiast sick of doing whatever they are doing right now, and is convinced that getting into the boat business is the right move. Pick up a company for the price of the debt essentially and start building boats.
There is a lot of money out there, and shortly there are going to be quite a few manufacturers that are sick of being COD, not being able to build boats, tired of a down market with no reserves and find themselves out of airspeed, altitude and ideas. Someone will come along as Johnny on the spot with about 1/10 of what they thought they could sell their molds and their dreams for, but they are willing to leverage their spotless credit and capital against the debt, and start building under new management.
It is the way of things, and the way MANY builders got into business.

pvhca
12-11-2007, 04:30 PM
Hate to say it but no chance Hallett will close, Nick Barron owns just about all of Irwindale(real estate I mean), the new location is free-n-clear. Building boats is a mere hobby I.M.O. he's got a sick collection of cars, bikes, toys etc. Not the most approachable old coot either. As for Eliminator, Bob and Co. will be just fine, I'd keep an eye out on the likes of Warlock if Carter Reed still runs it, can't believe they haven't closed yet. Let's hope they all make it through this rough period sucks to see anyone lose their business.

Froggystyle
12-14-2007, 09:02 AM
Hate to say it but no chance Hallett will close, Nick Barron owns just about all of Irwindale(real estate I mean), the new location is free-n-clear. Building boats is a mere hobby I.M.O. he's got a sick collection of cars, bikes, toys etc.
That is one inescapable factor in this market is that a large number of the actual owners of the companies are either independently wealthy or are directly tied to huge money. They may struggle along with everyone else, but with resources to keep it going, lean out, continue marketing and making good business decisions... they will cruise right through it. Or sell... they are usually the folks who have sense enough to have built the company for sale.
The folks who aren't in it as a hobby, or enterprise but are IN the business are going to have a tougher time. We count on volume to buoy expenses, and without volume there is no income.
Right now the problem with the market is stagnation. As I mentioned, I am fortunate to have built a boat that is the next step for many deckboaters, so those with money will be very interested in getting the next killer thing... which is us right now. If I was down in the knife fight with everyone else... we would have probably rolled down the doors and waited it out while building shower stalls for a living or something... :D
We are a composites construction and rigging business at the heart of it. I have put enough energy into other aspects of the business outside of pleasure boats that we are doing pretty well actually. I certainly can't wait for Trident to start really cranking out boats, but neither am I hanging my hat only on that hook.

Big Warlock
12-14-2007, 09:11 AM
Soooooooooooo, what your saying is there are other markets? Trident coolers? Trident bathrooms? Trident playpens???
Kind of like a mold popped out and the details glassed in? :D
I am teasing you brother!!! It's a tough market no matter what business your in!! I hope things will turn around after the new year!!
Have a good X-Mas!!

Jbb
12-14-2007, 09:15 AM
Soooooooooooo, what your saying is there are other markets? Trident coolers? Trident bathrooms? Trident playpens???
Kind of like a mold popped out and the details glassed in? :D
I am teasing you brother!!! It's a tough market no matter what business your in!! I hope things will turn around after the new year!!
Have a good X-Mas!!
Stay tuned for the revolutionary, dual jet spa tub......available with a variety of billet accessories...!

Mandelon
12-14-2007, 09:27 AM
Lmao....lots of billet... :D

Keith E. Sayre
12-14-2007, 09:50 AM
Froggy is right on the money when he says "wealthy owners". Take a look at
Lake Havasu Avenue and 3 of the 4 builders are off the charts. Whoever
said something about Hallett couldn't have been more wrong. Their clientele
isn't affected by blips in the local economy and will continue to buy big very
expensive boats no matter what the economy is doing.

Big Warlock
12-14-2007, 10:01 AM
Froggy is right on the money when he says "wealthy owners". Take a look at
Lake Havasu Avenue and 3 of the 4 builders are off the charts. Whoever
said something about Hallett couldn't have been more wrong. Their clientele
isn't affected by blips in the local economy and will continue to buy big very
expensive boats no matter what the economy is doing.
I am going to say this is more than a "blip" on the economy! I know everyone is hurting. The strong will survive. It is really tough out there in certain industries. This thing is not contained to on or another segment of the market. I predict 2008 is going to be rough. Recover sometime in the second half of 2009. And I am not talking about just the housing market.
You have airlines in trouble, construction companies in trouble, home builders in trouble, financial institutions in trouble, inflation around the corner, dollar weak, consumer confidence down and an election in which Democrats have a chance. Get ready for a rough ride folks. Your kidding yourselves if you think otherwise.
Anyone that knows me knows I am very positive. Sorry to say the factors are there. Without some major action by the feds, this economy may go by the wayside.
What can the feds do?
Lower interests rates on short term notes.
Contain treasury bills where they are.
Put into place infrastructure projects that have been on hold. (Yes, you have to go into debt, but will recover a majority in taxes.)
Lower or keep Capitol Gains taxes as they are.
Eliminate the "death tax."
Put conditions on AID and other monies we give to foreign nations that they have to be spent here in the USA. IE., they must hire American companies for their overseas construction projects that we fund.

EAZYKILLER2006
12-14-2007, 10:14 AM
I'm inn with spoon in hand!
Stir or spank? I do both pretty well
my true skill, is who're N up threads
SO WHERE DO WE BEGIN?

Riverkid
12-14-2007, 10:17 AM
Someone will come along as Johnny on the spot with about 1/10 of what they thought they could sell their molds and their dreams for, but they are willing to leverage their spotless credit and capital against the debt, and start building under new management.
It is the way of things, and the way MANY builders got into business.
Sy did this when he bought Commander from Ed Ferro.
Some computer type guy bought Crusader a ways back and that didn't last long...
When Gene bought Howard he was a rookie to boats...
Works for some of them...;)

Havasu_Dreamin
12-14-2007, 10:21 AM
When Gene bought Howard he was a rookie to boats...
I could be wrong, but I think Gene raced boats in the 70's. He may have been new to owning a boat company but he was not new to boats in general...

Riverkid
12-14-2007, 10:40 AM
I could be wrong, but I think Gene raced boats in the 70's. He may have been new to owning a boat company but he was not new to boats in general...
:D

Froggystyle
12-14-2007, 10:45 AM
I am going to say this is more than a "blip" on the economy! I know everyone is hurting.
Maybe so, but the last boat and the next three boats I am building are in excess of $170K, and none of them are financing. All until recently owned other boats, or are planning on keeping their boats until the season.
The money is there, and a lot of people are making a killing, or are about to in this tough time.
I have said a million times, the people with real money have it for a reason. They have correctly predicted cycles and rode them to full advantage. My real estate guy bought the hell out of local houses in 98-02 and sold them all in '05. Doubled, tripled etc... on all of them. I think he owned over 45 houses at one time. Now he is buying foreclosures and renting them to people who are getting foreclosed on! Stay in your house, pay me rent to the tune of a bit more than your mortgage, but not as much as it was going to correct to...
Not his first rodeo...