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Trailer Park Casanova
08-15-2003, 08:59 AM
First change is coming to scoreing.
Old Man France, the guy who owns NASCAR says now a point leader can take it all without ever winning a race. He wants to give more advantage to 1st place race winners.
Second, Toyota will be entering their Tundra trucks in the Crapsman series.
First time for Rice burners.
I'd hate to see it get like Formula where just a few dominate the circuit. I'd hate to see NASCAR have that happen. But maybe not.
Just seems like the smaller NASCAR racers have a bit more of a chance with the current scoreing system.
But then, the winner should get a big plus too (or a small one)
This is what I've read in the Fishwraps. Hell, I dunno.
Whaddya think about these changes?
Whats going to happen??
[ August 15, 2003, 10:59 AM: Message edited by: Trailer Park Casanova ]

HighRoller
08-15-2003, 09:16 AM
You want to see two guys go at it?Make the win worth twice as much.Actually,the current points system hurts the small teams because even if a small team wins,they get 5 points more than 2nd place.Meanwhile another team could lead the most laps and pick up 10 points,therefore scoring as many points or more than the winner.And we all know the guys who get the lap leading points are guys who run up front all the time.(not the little guys)The whole system is designed so that the popular drivers and big teams are protected.Currently,there is no way for a top team to miss a race.If they qualify bad they take a provisional.So they are guaranteed to make every race.Meanwhile a guy who outran them in qualifying goes home.As far as Toyota,they are just getting their feet wet on their way to the top level where they will outspend everyone,dominate the series and drive it into the crapper.Remember CART?It almost died because nobody could spend as much as Toyota in the engine game.I'm sure Toyota greased the rails with a big check made out to Bill France so they could compete.If anyone hasn't noticed,there is nothing you can't have,sponsor or display in NASCAR if you got the money to buy them off.Current teams spend 10-15 million a year on a Cup car and the rumors are that Toyota has budgeted 100 million to run 3 cars in 2005 or 2006.Better learn how to speak japanese if you wanna go to a race pretty soon.........

Fufu Queen
08-15-2003, 09:18 AM
You might be a red neck if you watch NASCAR. NHRA is the E-Ticket. Go forward fast.

Jordy
08-15-2003, 09:22 AM
As soon as they put a triple jump in the front straight away and a rhythm section in the back straight I might gain some interest. Way too flat and round for my tastes. I'd rather watch LPGA. :D

twistedpair
08-15-2003, 09:23 AM
Toyota in Nascar......Sheesh. They better get bullet proof haulers, can you imagine if their first win is somewhere like Martinsville or Talledega? Don't think them hardcore southern boys are gonna take too kindly to that!

burbanite
08-15-2003, 09:26 AM
Don't know if I should get too involved in this, but...
Sure, give the winner a few more points, the reality is that most people watching a NASCAR race don't give two hoots as to whether it is a good race or not, (and they generally aren't).
As far as Toyota is concerned, I'm pretty much out of that discussion except to say that $100,000,000, err...I don't think so...

WaterBox
08-15-2003, 09:56 AM
NASCAR's always screwing with something; I think they should leave it like it is.. NO wait. I think they should git rid of the restricter plate's. Send the japcrap back where it came from. [ On a clear night you can smell the rice burning for mile's..]

blownmoney
08-15-2003, 10:00 AM
Sure, give the winner a few more points, the reality is that most people watching a NASCAR race don't give two hoots as to whether it is a good race or not, (and they generally aren't).
wow..what have you been watching?..as per your racing collection i can see your a cart,champ car, irl or what ever ya wanna call it this year, wanna talk about boring, paul tracy going to rcr hmmmmmm.... maybe he see's something or knows that cart, champ or irl won't be around long... why cause it has no appeal , no excitement, i can't believe that 43 cars side by side at 200 mph is boring , please see this in person!!... i've been to the race's at long beach many times and its pretty much,,, zoom, zoom, zoom, "okay, there they go"..as far as most fans not caring weather its a good race or not? why is it the "most " popular form of motorsports in the world right now?..some one must care?
[ August 15, 2003, 11:03 AM: Message edited by: blownmoney ]

Trailer Park Casanova
08-15-2003, 10:01 AM
WaterBox:
I think they should git rid of the restricter plate's. Yep,, thats a good thought too..

Jordy
08-15-2003, 10:04 AM
blownmoney:
i can't believe the 43 cars side by side at 200 mph is boring , has no pulse!!! please see this in person!!... I saw it in person and it was cool for the first couple laps. By lap 34987 I was pretty much over it. Turn left here... :D :D :D

blownmoney
08-15-2003, 10:05 AM
last time i was at the races in long beach , i spent more time on the pier drinking beers with the hotties than i did watching the race, course the beers on the pier were only 2.50 not 6.50 like inside the gates!!

blownmoney
08-15-2003, 10:07 AM

burbanite
08-15-2003, 10:13 AM
blownmoney:
wow..what have you been watching?..All of it, it's what I do for a living.
blownmoney:
as per your racing collection i can see your a cart,champ car, irl or what ever ya wanna call it this year, wanna talk about boring Did you bid on any of it or was it too boring for you? :(
blownmoney:
please see this in person.. I have, a lot. :D
blownmoney:
why is it the "most " popular form of motorsports in the world right now?.. Well actually that would be Formula One. :p

Tom Brown
08-15-2003, 10:18 AM
burbanite:
blownmoney:
why is it the "most " popular form of motorsports in the world right now?.. Well actually that would be Formula One. :p Ah yes... Formula 1. At least there is one formula that isn't mired in controversy. :D :D :D
[ August 15, 2003, 11:19 AM: Message edited by: Tom Brown ]

HighRoller
08-15-2003, 10:20 AM
43 cars side-by-side at 200mph is racing?You must be the guy who gets off on crashes,because that's what you get in plate racing.Ask the drivers,they don't like it.Those guys aren't out there moving around to pass,they are trying not to crash!!!You could make those guys all race governed go karts and they'd be bunched up too.If you want to re-introduce racing in NASCAR do the following:
Softer tires
3-5 sets of tires for the whole weekend.
No provisionals
Practice,qualify and race in one day or maybe occasionally 2 days.
Mandatory DQ for 1st offense rules infraction.
Loss of all season points for 2nd offense.
Season DQ for 3rd offense.
Bias ply tires on short and intermediate tracks.
All engines run on pump gas(no restrictor plates)
Organization independant of NASCAR provides rules enforcement and inspections.(like F1)
You make these changes and it would transform the face of NASCAR.

blownmoney
08-15-2003, 10:21 AM
Did you bid on any of it or was it too boring for you? actually i would of bid $200 for the crew shirt but it had "toyota" on it and no "coors light" patch on it.. :D
All of it, it's what I do for a living maybe thats why its boring to "you"
Well actually that would be Formula One. give it a few yrs, especially if m .shumacher keeps dominating,
I have, a lot.
lucky you... i hope to see more soon!!

HighRoller
08-15-2003, 10:21 AM
Oh,and if people knew about the favoritism and politics that goes on inside NASCAR it wouldn't be popular for long.

Blown 472
08-15-2003, 10:21 AM
Fufu Queen:
You might be a red neck if you watch NASCAR. NHRA is the E-Ticket. Go forward fast. Can I get a hell yeah?? no bullshit, no games just lights camera nitro.

blownmoney
08-15-2003, 10:25 AM
43 cars side-by-side at 200mph is racing? actually yes i do... watch this from the in -car camera.. it'll take your breath away!!!

blownmoney
08-15-2003, 10:27 AM
Oh,and if people knew about the favoritism and politics that goes on inside NASCAR it wouldn't be popular for long.
where does this not happen? :D

blownmoney
08-15-2003, 10:28 AM
kinda like barrichelo stepinng on the brakes to let shumacher win?.. is that what yer talking about?

Tom Brown
08-15-2003, 10:28 AM
Trailer Park Casanova:
I'd hate to see it get like Formula where just a few dominate the circuit.I take it you mean Formula 1.
Personally, I don't care for formulas that try make winning a lottery. It makes me wonder why they don't pick the winner's name from a hat instead of racing. I'd rather see the best package win.

SBullet
08-15-2003, 10:44 AM
Trailer Park Casanova,
I agree with you with on the Toyota Issue. This an American sport with american cars not imports. Has far as the points leader it's all about being consistant on the track every week!!

burbanite
08-15-2003, 10:44 AM
blownmoney:
Oh,and if people knew about the favoritism and politics that goes on inside NASCAR it wouldn't be popular for long.
where does this not happen? :D To the degree that it exists in NASCAR, no-one else is even remotely close. :)

blownmoney
08-15-2003, 10:54 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by blownmoney:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh,and if people knew about the favoritism and politics that goes on inside NASCAR it wouldn't be popular for long.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
where does this not happen?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To the degree that it exists in NASCAR, no-one else is even remotely close burb , come on ,man when have you seen jimmie johnson step on the brake to let jeff gordon win?, or kurt busch to let mark martin win?...
f-1 is twice as bad as nascar, if you ain't ferrari,mclaren, or williams you ain't shit!

Trailer Park Casanova
08-15-2003, 10:55 AM
Trailer Park Casanova:
This is what I've read in the Fishwraps. Hell, I dunno.
At least this thread has gotten off politics or cop bashing

burbanite
08-15-2003, 11:19 AM
SBullet:
Trailer Park Casanova,
I agree with you with on the Toyota Issue. This an American sport with American cars not imports. Has far as the points leader it's all about being consistent on the track every week!! I believe there was a thread a few days ago pointing to the fact that companies such as Toyota have a higher content of American made parts than those that are traditionally considered "American".
jawdrop
The points system was devised to reward consistency and often took the championship down to the wire (along with a few cunningly placed caution periods) - smart marketing. wink

burbanite
08-15-2003, 11:21 AM
blownmoney:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by blownmoney:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh,and if people knew about the favoritism and politics that goes on inside NASCAR it wouldn't be popular for long.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
where does this not happen?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To the degree that it exists in NASCAR, no-one else is even remotely close burb , come on ,man when have you seen jimmie johnson step on the brake to let jeff gordon win?, or kurt busch to let mark martin win?...
f-1 is twice as bad as nascar, if you ain't ferrari,mclaren, or williams you ain't shit! There is way more to favoritism and politics than just what happens within any one team... wink

blownmoney
08-15-2003, 12:14 PM
There is way more to favoritism and politics than just what happens within any one team... true.... i agree jr & gordon might get some extra benny's being there probably the biggest stars in their sport, but not any more than schumacher & barrachelo in f-1 , castronevas & tracy in champ cars, etc., and maybe they do show some favortism to the owners that have been in the sport 30 yrs, again the same for f-1 with williams , ferrari, and mclaren,same for champ car like ,ganassi, rahal, penske, as you would know! favortism is in any form of sport, unfortunaley! frown

burbanite
08-15-2003, 12:53 PM
blownmoney,
from your list of examples, I've only worked for McLaren and Ganassi. In both cases it seems that the "help" we received from the respective governing bodies was the opposite of favoritism, in fact, in a lot of cases it seemed like they were "out to get" us.
The more successful we became the bigger target we were. One area where favoritism is rife is when it comes to technical inspection, particularly in NASCAR. That is a long, long contentious issue!
I remember so many times in CART where we were stuck in tech while they searched and searched for something illegal - never did find anything because we weren't.
Winston Cup tech is laughable along with their stance on track safety. Have we tried to change that? A big resounding yes but it doesn't fit on the agenda I'm afraid.
It's all entertainment, every series has it's good races and bad, at least during a NASCAR race I can leave, mow the lawn, come back and not miss anything. :p
When people say the best part about racing are the crashes then that tells me all I need to know. wink

burbanite
08-15-2003, 12:57 PM
Trailer Park Casanova:
Trailer Park Casanova:
This is what I've read in the Fishwraps. Hell, I dunno.
At least this thread has gotten off politics or cop bashing For now!!!! :D :D :D

twistedpair
08-15-2003, 12:59 PM
Why is every thread turning into a pissin' match lately? If it hauls ass and makes lots of noise, I'm all for it. C'mon peeps, it's boating season, no excuse for cabin fever, lighten up.
My .02 (before taxes) wink :D

schiada96
08-15-2003, 01:06 PM
When I lived in NC I went to a few races and Lowes motor speedway sure looks fast. And both short tracks looked cool to me, quarter mile drags with a 180 degree turn in the middle

burbanite
08-15-2003, 01:15 PM
twistedpair:
Why is every thread turning into a pissin' match lately? If it hauls ass and makes lots of noise, I'm all for it. C'mon peeps, it's boating season, no excuse for cabin fever, lighten up.
My .02 (before taxes) wink :D Sorry if you think that, it certainly is not my intent. Just discussing some things that were brought up and gave my opinion, didn't think I was pissy about it but back to the original questions:
Trailer Park Casanova:
Whaddya think about these changes?
Whats going to happen?? 1. I'm all for them, it's about time the "good old boys club" was opened up to new members.
2. NASCAR will eat itself within five years the way it is so I think it will help strengthen it's position both here and internationally. Look at how huge the import scene has become (not that I am a fan, too "buzzy" for me). :D
Not that I know anything...and I said I wasn't going to get too involved.. :rolleyes:

twistedpair
08-15-2003, 01:21 PM
Burbanite, my comments were not necessarily directed at you, in fact I think you kinda got jumped in this thread. I was just commenting on the general tone of the board lately.

burbanite
08-15-2003, 01:40 PM
twistedpair:
Burbanite, my comments were not necessarily directed at you, in fact I think you kinda got jumped in this thread. I was just commenting on the general tone of the board lately. I do agree with what you say though, the aura isn't quite the same as it used to be... wink
I don't know that I was "jumped", blownmoney is obviously passionate about his enjoyment of NASCAR and was expressing that. I love it when people have true feeling for something. I was merely (and probably knew better) trying to project the viewpoint of someone on the other side of the fence, it's hard to do without causing a defensive reaction, that goes back to the passion thing.
Nothing is as we see it, there is always another side to things. Mostly, it would be better if we never knew the whole story, it can tend to spoil our enjoyment - segway - I'm all for haulin' ass, makin' noise and boating! :cool:
Trailer Park Casanova, did we scare you away? wink

Trailer Park Casanova
08-15-2003, 02:00 PM
burbanite:
Trailer Park Casanova, did we scare you away? wink Nah, I had to log off.
I took the day off and drove out to pick up some go ped parts for my sons Go Peds. We ride them by Mbrown2's house up the street and wake him up.
I think my comment on the Toyota was misunderstood. I have no opinion,, I was wondering what others thought. Their full size tucks are built here in the US I understand, and Chrysler uses Toyota HD transmissions in several of its Jeep models (I'm told).
NASCAR is bigger than non fans realize.
The new Guiness Book of world records puts it at the number 1 in attendance spectator event in the US.

blownmoney
08-15-2003, 03:22 PM
blownmoney,
from your list of examples, I've only worked for McLaren and Ganassi. In both cases it seems that the "help" we received from the respective governing bodies was the opposite of favoritism, in fact, in a lot of cases it seemed like they were "out to get" us.
The more successful we became the bigger target we were. One area where favoritism is rife is when it comes to technical inspection, particularly in NASCAR. That is a long, long contentious issue!
I remember so many times in CART where we were stuck in tech while they searched and searched for something illegal - never did find anything because we weren't.
Winston Cup tech is laughable along with their stance on track safety. Have we tried to change that? A big resounding yes but it doesn't fit on the agenda I'm afraid.
It's all entertainment, every series has it's good races and bad, at least during a NASCAR race I can leave, mow the lawn, come back and not miss anything.
When people say the best part about racing are the crashes then that tells me all I need to know. well its obvious burb that you've worked for these guys' that your gunna know a hell of a lot more than i about what goes on on the inside of racing,so i won't argue that at all, and i didn't mean to jump you at all, maybe i was alil sensitive to nascar being called "boring", i used to think the same way.. if i watched on race a yr i would still think the same way, but when you watch a favorite driver week in and week out, it becomes very intense!, i mean heck to the average guy sitting down to watch the brickyard 400 , would he care if jimmy spencer put matt kenseth into the wall, naw, but too a jr fan that would be "HUGE", seen the commercials "how bad have ya got it?" well i guess i got it bad..lol... as i'm sure you feel the same way about f-1 , cart..on another note , why do you think that toyota wouldn't spend 100 mill on nascar?...they do seem pretty interested, iu can see that being a pretty accurate sum for all classes, i.e. truck , busch, and cup cars..?

burbanite
08-15-2003, 04:20 PM
blownmoney:
maybe i was alil sensitive to nascar being called "boring", i used to think the same way.. Like I said, I love it when people are passionate about something, it shows they care.
I used to watch NASCAR when I was young, Parsons, Petty, Earnhart Snr, etc. etc. To me, they really were the "good old days", I don't think I'm not interested because I'm around it all of the time, I certainly have a different perspective knowing what I know and there is no arguing it's success.
Andy Graves runs our NASCAR operation, he went to Winston Cup with Jeff Gordon from Sprint Cars and worked at Hendricks until we nabbed him, I've thanked him before for allowing me to get my lawns mowed on a Sunday...he pissed himself laughing... :D
With a company like ours, the way it is set up with transfer of information and technology when one division wins we all win and that is part of our philosophy. Many of the cup guys are my friends.
blownmoney:
on another note , why do you think that toyota wouldn't spend 100 mill on nascar?...they do seem pretty interested, iu can see that being a pretty accurate sum for all classes, i.e. truck , busch, and cup cars..? The funding for Toyota Racing Developments (TRD) comes from Toyota Motor Sales (TMS).
I know what it cost them to fund the CART now IRL program and how much we get in terms of help from them. It is not anywhere near that kind of money.
I guess if you could put a dollar figure on all of the previous R&D from over the many years and included capital costs of manufacturing in several countries and countless engineers working on projects you might come up with a figure like that. Really though, true costs are not going to be as high over a period of time like you were describing.
After all, they would have to sell a hell of a lot of cars/trucks here in the States to justify that king of expenditure.
For all three series it would certainly add up over a period of time there is no doubt about it.
Nascar with Toyota has always been in our plan from the beginning of our foray into that series, NASCAR insists that you prove yourself in the lower ranks first, can't just jump straight in. :)

blownmoney
08-15-2003, 04:58 PM
what team are you working with now?... will townsend bell ever see a champ car again?...(local guy from my area)

HighRoller
08-15-2003, 06:36 PM
Burbanite,it's nice to see someone who also has some inside knowledge on this.I have friends who have business relationships with several top Cup drivers and it's amazing what comes out of the driver's mouths about NASCAR.I too have worked in racing,and have experienced the same thing as you.We were blowing everyone's doors off in sprint cars and the officials gave us not one spare inch of room in any way.Anyone who doubts what I'm saying needs to read Smokey Yunick's book"Sex,lies and superspeedways"and you'll see what I'm talking about.He outlines first hand how Big Bill France favored certain drivers by looking the other way on things and how Bill Jr. has continued that tradition.It's a very entertaining read and funny as hell!As far as Toyota spending 100 million on three teams in Cup,why is this so hard to believe?Sponsorship prices in cup have doubled in the last 5 years and they'll probably double again by the time Toyota moves up.Anyways...I'm gonna go crack open a River Soda and fire up Colin McRae's Rally game on the PS2.Nothin like a good 4 wheel drift to clear your mind.Just hope the damn hood doesn't come off this time.........DOH!!

burbanite
08-16-2003, 07:09 AM
blownmoney:
what team are you working with now?... will townsend bell ever see a champ car again?...(local guy from my area) blownmoney,
I still work for Ganassi, my eighth year here...that would be nearly twice as long as any past tenure... :) In that respect, racing isn't much different from most major sports, people move around, it's the nature of the game.
I don't think Townsend did himself any favors when he drove in CART, kind of used to run out of talent at inopportune moments... wink

burbanite
08-16-2003, 07:13 AM
HighRoller:
We were blowing everyone's doors off in sprint cars and the officials gave us not one spare inch of room in any way.HighRoller,
who did you work with and when? Sprint cars are :cool:

blownmoney
08-16-2003, 04:49 PM
burb, since you have the insiders scoop, whadda ya think about the possibility of chip& felix goin' the "toyota" rout when there in the cup series? since they already have strong ties with toyota in the cart series.. it's obvious that bill davis is already working the angle, but i think he might have "shot his load " early..lol, wahts your thinking in this?, also heard bad news about cart today as far as the financial probs,if cart does go away, will you work with the nascar teams?, if so can you get me bristol night race tickets..hahaaha..j\k

playdeep
08-16-2003, 05:46 PM
Excellent thread gentleman... :D
My problem with CART is I guess that I like my hero's,home grown.
Kinda hard to root for a skinny french guy with glasses.
Ever run into Paul Tracy in Havasu?,every time he shows up he about gets his arse kicked because of his arrogance...
In all forms of racing there are drivers and then there are RACERS.
In my (humble) opinion NASCAR has more racers than any other form of racing,except for SPRINT CARS.Stewart,J Gordon,R Gordon,Newman,Earnhardt jr.,Martin,et al are Racers
Anybody remember when John Andretti lost his CART ride and jumped into a Top Fuel dragster?
He made the semi's at an NHRA national event eek! .
I was in the pit area the first night Al Unser jr. strapped into a sprint car...He needed 2 phone books under his butt to see over the hood riser.
His father AL sr. had him go into Sprints as opposed to formula driving schools because he wanted his kid to learn how to be a RACER...
Sorry for the long post but I enjoy this type of racing bantor.
Gotta go...Knoxville is on Speedchannel tonight :D

HighRoller
08-16-2003, 10:18 PM
OUCH!Some scrub in the D-main just left the facilities without using the exit gate!!I would agree that there are a lot of racers in NASCAR but they don't really race hard anymore.To win your car has to be perfect or close to it and if it's even a little bit off you can't make up for it.I think Sprints and midgets will always be the hardest racing cars around because no matter what you do the driver is the most important part.In Today's NASCAR a good car can win with a mediocre driver,but a good driver cannot win with a mediocre car.

058
08-16-2003, 11:02 PM
I miss the old NASCAR when it was called "Grand National" Back in the days of real stock cars when you could go into any Dodge/Plymouth, Ford or GM dealership and buy a car and have it be competitive with a couple of weeks of work. I miss the days of the 7 liter limit, 427s, 426s 421s and whatever else someone could run as long as it was under 7 liters and had a single 4 barrel on it. I miss the days when they ran the "modified" cars, with late model engines but the bodys had to be 5 years or older. I miss the days when Curtis Turner had a cigerette lighter in his race car so he could smoke during the race. I miss guys named "Fireball" and "Cotton" and Ned, Freddy & Tiny. Guys like Junior Johnson and Little Joe Weatherly...those were real racecar drivers. Damn I guess I'm just gettin' too old.

HighRoller
08-17-2003, 12:53 AM
YEEHAW!I'm glad the Dude won Knoxville even with a broken shock mount on the left rear.Tony Stewart was there and I'm sensing all is not well with he and Joe Gibbs.First he was asked if he would race there after he retired from NASCAR and he said that you might not have to wait that long for him to leave Joe Gibbs.He also said he didn't care if he was hungover tomorrow at Michigan,after telling the Dude"we're ****in proud of you"right on TV.
I like watching old NASCAR races on ESPN Classic where they were up on the wheel with the rear end hangin out and drivin the shyt out of those things every lap.Now it's all about waiting til the last 100 laps and hoping you have a good pit stop.Whoopee.

burbanite
08-17-2003, 08:18 AM
blownmoney:
burb, since you have the insiders scoop, whadda ya think about the possibility of chip& felix goin' the "toyota" rout when there in the cup series? blownmoney,
burbanite:
Nascar with Toyota has always been in our plan from the beginning of our foray into that series, NASCAR insists that you prove yourself in the lower ranks first, can't just jump straight in. :) This year we have concentrated on IRL only, no CART.
We have a responsibility to our 87 employees in Indy and the 110 in Charlotte to ensure we continue to run a financially viable business, we need to be where the best interests of the company are regardless of our personal preferences.
Each series is in a state of flux at present, including NASCAR, and it is difficult to predict the future exactly. We have always tried to make decisions based on the future, these days the manufacturers control the environment even more than they did before so it only makes sense to align yourself with someone who is prepared to invest in long term development, for us, that meant forming a relationship with Toyota.
TRD struggled in the early stages of their foray into CART. It wasn't until we signed on with them while they were not the thing to have and helped them with their development program that things started to change. You have to really push to get ahead and we are prepared to do just that.
Now, to move this back to TPC's original objective when he started this topic, change is inevitable, sometimes it works and other times it doesn't. Sometimes those changes don't sit well with the spectator but suit the competitors, sometimes it is the reverse.
These days decisions are based on things other than pure competition, it is the way of the world.
What will happen is anyones guess. Will it drive away the traditional fans or will it bring in new ones?
NASCAR is expanding it's demographic, it's popularity is extending a little beyond where it was five years ago and has to capitalize on that for it's future existance. Is that good? Don't know, but we as a company would rather be at the front of that wave than trying to catch it.
playdeep mentioned the lack of American drivers in open wheel racing, this is the single biggest obstacle in promoting those series and the single biggest reason for the popularity of NASCAR.
Too many opportunities to do too many things growing up in this country, not enough focus motor racing to make a difference. South Americans on the other hand have a real passion for racing and as a result have extensive programs for young kids, it is therefore easier to extract and nurture talent.
As a race team that is results driven we don't care how much money a prospective driver has... we pay him, he does not bring money to us so all we care about is how many races is he going to win for us.
Other teams may need drivers to bring sponsors to help them survive, once again, the ladder system through the Sth. American racing programs often carries with it support from local cpmpanies wishing to advertise in a larger market i.e. the US.
Many people don't like F1 because the drivers are all "foreign". Well, it is an International series and is supposed to be that way. If you think NASCAR fans are passionate about a particular driver you might want to attend a Formula One race in Europe....talk about the definition of jingoism... :D
Anyway, I'm rambling...

playdeep
08-17-2003, 09:40 AM
A couple of random thoughts..
It is a a fact that Daimler-Chrysler wants a Winston cup title ASAP.
Anybody notice the Mopar logo on the Lasoski's nose wing?,the car owned by Tony Stewart.
Mopar also sponsors All of Stewarts short track programs (Sprints,Midgets,Silver Crown etc.)
Joe Gibbs begrudgingly tolorates Stewart's passion for racing anything with wheels,No INDY.
Gannassi reminds me of Raider's owner Al Davis...Just win baby!.
Gannassi fields Mopars in the cup series and has a strong Indy program.
Kinda makes you wonder what will happen here.
Knoxville was as always Knoxville,Drama,great racing,Racers pushing the envelope...Great stuff!
BTW,Last year's coverage of the Knoxville sat. night finals drew a larger T.V. audience than any CART race (according to Speed Sport news)
Burb,thanks for the factual info as it pertains to Motorsports..it is fascinating to get an insiders perspective.
[ August 17, 2003, 10:47 AM: Message edited by: playdeep ]

carreraelite
08-17-2003, 10:30 AM
Quote:
"companies such as Toyota have a higher content of American made parts than those that are traditionally considered "American"."
But the profits from the sales of these cars ,still goes back to japan!! :mad: :rolleyes: idea
[ August 17, 2003, 11:31 AM: Message edited by: carreraelite ]

AzDon
08-17-2003, 03:27 PM
I preferred the days when the cars were required to be based on American, rear-wheel-drive 2 door sedans with bodies that couldn't be altered except by the manufacturer making the modifications available to the general public! The Superbird, Daytona Charger, Talladega Torino, Chevy Laguna, Grand-am and Monte SS and last 2 generations of t-bird were all great representation of the cars running in Nascar, thanks to Nascar rules. Now any 4 door, front-wheel-drive piece of crap that's aerodynamic can become nascar material if the basic body size fits the program! The bodies are so heavily modified that it's hard to distinguish between Ford, Chevy, Pontiac, and Dodge!
I think Nascar is making another tragic mistake by letting foreign nameplates in because it will futher erode the aura of it being an American series. They have more than enough teams willing to put good American representations on the track, so why do they need to do this?

TheLurker
08-17-2003, 05:00 PM
Az,
I could not agree with you more! The cars should
be based on actual production models, not a
template.
Richard Petty's Superbird now that was a car.
Go Mopar!

DaveA
08-17-2003, 07:16 PM
Burb,
I was at the windtunnel a couple of weeks ago when a black hauler pulled by a black Dodge Ram dually pulled up and unloaded a strange looking black primer NCTS truck...Ah so! Down from High Point...Hmmmm...wonder who THAT could be...Of course, everyone there's sworn to secrecy.
Tokyota...they're serious, folks. Get used to it.
Another interesting thing happened down here recently:
Brooke Gordon just bought Rusty Wallace's old (huge, tremendous, beautiful)house on the lake (went for 4.5mil, according to reports). It's on the end of the road where she and Jeffy used to live before they became state income tax dodgers and moved to Florida. :D Guess she liked the old neighborhood after all.
Rubberhead used to complain how folks used to float up to his house and shine their spotlights in the windows, so he moved into the middle of a huge piece of ground out in the country. I suppose stuff like the Hendrick/Roush/Gibbs, et al, fans taking a leak on his seawall broke the camel's back.
Now Brooke will have to contend with the same from the Jeff Gordon fans. :D
Guess I'll have to hang out and see if Brooke shows up...ooops...I mean I hope she has better success at privacy!! Yea. That's what I meant... wink
If you get sent to Mooresville to do R&D, lemme know. It'd be good to meet someone from the boards.
DaveA

Tom Brown
08-17-2003, 07:26 PM
carreraelite:
Quote:
"companies such as Toyota have a higher content of American made parts than those that are traditionally considered "American"."
But the profits from the sales of these cars ,still goes back to japan!! :mad: :rolleyes: idea How do you know where the profit of a publicly traded organization goes?
What makes you think profit earned by the big three is staying in the USA, or even North America?
I'm pretty sure Nissan is mostly owned by Renault. These days, the trail of money can be tough to follow.
[ August 17, 2003, 08:29 PM: Message edited by: Tom Brown ]

TheLurker
08-17-2003, 08:09 PM
Tom Brown:
carreraelite:
Quote:
"companies such as Toyota have a higher content of American made parts than those that are traditionally considered "American"."
But the profits from the sales of these cars ,still goes back to japan!! :mad: :rolleyes: idea How do you know where the profit of a publicly traded organization goes?
What makes you think profit earned by the big three is staying in the USA, or even North America?
I'm pretty sure Nissan is mostly owned by Renault. These days, the trail of money can be tough to follow. While we cant say where all of the profits from the “Big Two”go, Ford and GM (Chrysler was bought by DalmerBenz years back) go, One thing is for sure, the taxes they pay on earnings goes to Uncle Sam.

burbanite
08-17-2003, 08:53 PM
playdeep:
A couple of random thoughts..
Hmmm, someone has been watching... wink
Let's throw this in the mix just for fun...
playdeep:
Gannassi fields Mopars in the cup series and has a strong Indy program.
Kinda makes you wonder what will happen here.
We will do whatever is necessary to remain competitive... :)
playdeep:
It is a a fact that Daimler-Chrysler wants a Winston cup title ASAP.
Anybody notice the Mopar logo on the Lasoski's nose wing?,the car owned by Tony Stewart.
Mopar also sponsors All of Stewarts short track programs (Sprints,Midgets,Silver Crown etc.)
Joe Gibbs begrudgingly tolorates Stewart's passion for racing anything with wheels,No INDY.
Gannassi reminds me of Raider's owner Al Davis...Just win baby!.
Gannassi fields Mopars in the cup series and has a strong Indy program.
Kinda makes you wonder what will happen here.
This union has been predicted since Tony drove for us at Indy in '01. Chip likes Tony. Tony, being the true racer that he is, wants to do everything he can, including Indy.
playdeep:
Joe Gibbs begrudgingly tolorates Stewart's passion for racing anything with wheels,No INDY.
The fact that Roger Penske, (one of our closest competitors in the IRL), is on the board of directors of Home Depot plays no small part in the fact that Tony has not driven for us at Indy since that first time... :confused: .. idea
playdeep:
BTW,Last year's coverage of the Knoxville sat. night finals drew a larger T.V. audience than any CART race (according to Speed Sport news)
That does not surprise me in the least.

burbanite
08-17-2003, 09:20 PM
AzDon:
The bodies are so heavily modified that it's hard to distinguish between Ford, Chevy, Pontiac, and Dodge!
Agreed.
Nowadays the engines are heavily regulated, it's hard to make that big old ancient air pump more efficient and still comply with the regs.
Therefore, aerodynamics are the name of the game and, unfortunately, if it were just a head to head amongst manufacturers you would see one or the other running away with the races. Not good from a marketing standpoint.
The answer is..cloning! Same body dimensions with decals for lights and "distinguishing" features, same suspension (buy it from any of the approved suppliers) and the list goes on.
Now we have a "spec" series with different manufacturers involved. :confused: , Hmmm, that doesn't sound right but hey, throw in a few colorful characters, a mix of veterans and young guns, the occasional "NASCAR yellow" and a huge marketing machine and pretty soon you have one hell of a successful form of entertainment.

burbanite
08-17-2003, 09:30 PM
DaveA:
Burb,
I was at the windtunnel a couple of weeks ago when a black hauler pulled by a black Dodge Ram dually pulled up and unloaded a strange looking black primer NCTS truck...Ah so! Down from High Point...Hmmmm...wonder who THAT could be...Of course, everyone there's sworn to secrecy.[/b] More info on the NCTS project (http://www.toyota.com/motorsports/news/dash/2003/07-15-01.html)
DaveA:
If you get sent to Mooresville to do R&D, lemme know. It'd be good to meet someone from the boards.
DaveA Sure will.

Tom Brown
08-17-2003, 09:33 PM
TheLurker:
While we cant say where all of the profits from the “Big Two”go, Ford and GM (Chrysler was bought by DalmerBenz years back) go, One thing is for sure, the taxes they pay on earnings goes to Uncle Sam. Both Toyota Motor Manufacturing North America, Inc. and Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc. are American companies. Sure, they use offshore technology and have offshore ownership but GM & Ford use offshore technology and are, at least partially, owned by offshore interests. Any profit made by Toyota * USA. is taxed by the same laws that govern GM & Ford.

burbanite
08-17-2003, 09:51 PM
Tom Brown:
Any profit made by Toyota * USA. is taxed by the same laws that govern GM & Ford. Yep.

Just Tool'n
08-17-2003, 09:57 PM
But lets go back in time a little.
Did not USAC govern indy car racing till the rules broke apart the org apart. Then Roger Penshe took the the leadership and formed CART!
Was quite successful till someone with more money & the biggest track & the prestige that went along with it got his panties all up in a bunch, F*cked up on good racing series, I know I went to 12 diffrent Indy 500 till the mid 90's when Tony George screwed with the concept,started the Indy Racing League.
Now talk about boring, no name drivers racing just so they can race the Indy 500.
Cart was a success til Penske left to go to IRL, now the whole thing is close to BK, or for sale!
Then there was sprint car racing, did not USAC govern it also, pissed a bunch of owners & drivers off, so they went off & started World of Outlaws.
Now is not this venue successful?
So maybe the Frances need to read my letter here, look at what the hell they are doing, review history a little, & see that a successful series can go upside down when they make it unfavorable to race teams & drivers. There can be alternatives too NASCAR.
Shit Tony george could do it!
Stranger thingfs have happened!

Seadog
08-18-2003, 06:27 AM
While I agree that it is hard to tell the cars apart anymore because they are more like funny cars than stock cars, lets face it, the Superbird was an attempt to get around the rules. They only made enough of them to meet the regulations, they were not a 'production' car. Its like the aluminum front Fairlanes a few years before and several other models that were built for a race series. Interestingly enough, Ford had a Torino that was more aerodynamic than the Superbird, but when they killed the rules that allowed the SB, Ford killed the modified Torino. Pity because it was a classy design that I would have loved.

HighRoller
08-18-2003, 06:43 AM
In the current rules,the four brands are cross checked using 33-35 templates,depending on the track.Only 5 templates differ between the four brands.I think the reason NASCAR is so popular is because the fans are ignorant,i.e. not real racers.Anybody who is hardcore or has worked in racing can see within 5 seconds that NASCAR is not"racing".It is a"show",with lots of noise and colors and big name drivers.Arbitrary rule enforcement,rule modification by the sanctioning body and rules that reward past performance in a current race are all examples of how NASCAR"shapes"the look of their racing.As far as the IRL"hurting"racing,I disagree.Tony George obviously saw the writing on the wall and had a vision for a series that would allow REAL racers to compete in a top division by earning it.You made a reference to"no-name"drivers,and I have to remind you that A.J. Foyt,Mario Andretti and Parnelli Jones weren't born as superstars.They too were no-name drivers at one time but they still raced hard.In fact,some of the best racing you'll see is from the no-name guys because they have something to prove.Al Unser Jr. got lazy and comfy in his life because he assumed his name would always guarantee him a ride.Then he got canned and sat at home for a while.Now he drives his ass off again.(In the IRL,by the way.)Being unemployed always makes you get up on the wheel!!!

rrrr
08-18-2003, 08:40 PM
burbanite:
This year we have concentrated on IRL only, no CART.
We have a responsibility to our 87 employees in Indy and the 110 in Charlotte to ensure we continue to run a financially viable business, we need to be where the best interests of the company are regardless of our personal preferences.
Jesus H. Christ burb, what do you guys do with 87 employees, LOL? We have uh, 15 maybe. I keep looking for your lazy azz at the track, I guess that dinner at 6 stuff has spoiled you.
BTW, I was pretty jazzed about our giant killer qual run at Kentucky, unfortunately we got behind a slow car and lost a bunch of spots so the race result kinda sucked.
I still think that for $/finishing spot we are kicking butt....

HighRoller
08-18-2003, 09:04 PM
I think it goes like this.Used to have one guy to do the tires.Now one guy is the tire supervisor,oversees everything.One guy checks pressure.Another guy checks stagger.A third guy writes the info on the tire.The fourth and fifth guys wipe sweat off the guys and get them water.A sixth guy runs to and from the tire trailer with new tires.The seventh guy carries the tire from the pit to the car during the stop.An eighth guy handles press releases from the tire crew and a ninth guy drives the tire crew to and from the track.Sometimes a tenth guy is called in to videotape the tire guys so they can analyze their performance and take IR readings.Oh,forgot about the guy who takes tire temps and the guy standing next to him that writes them down....Now,on to the engine department.......I know this is an exagerration but a lot of Cup teams have this kind of setup.They figure if they hire three guys to do the small stuff,the important guys can concentrate on the big jobs.

burbanite
08-19-2003, 05:39 AM
rrrr:
I guess that dinner at 6 stuff has spoiled you.
:D :D

DaveA
08-21-2003, 07:16 PM
burbanite:
This union has been predicted since Tony drove for us at Indy in '01. Chip likes Tony. Tony, being the true racer that he is, wants to do everything he can, including Indy.
[/b]
Yes, he's a true racer...I just recalled that back in the early nineties, I was at the Ranier-Walsh Busch shop talking to one of the head guys that worked for Harry at the time (Waddell Wilson's stepson, FWIW). They had Greg Sacks in the car at the time (Pontiac of course) and were agonizing over its performance. He said just that week they let this open wheel kid climb in the car right after Sacks finished testing, and were blown away when he began cutting major tenths off of Sack's time just after 5-6 laps in the car (at Charlotte, if memory serves). Whoziz kid, I ask. "Tony Stewart. Incredibly natural driving talent..."
[/QUOTE]The fact that Roger Penske, (one of our closest competitors in the IRL), is on the board of directors of Home Depot plays no small part in the fact that Tony has not driven for us at Indy since that first time... :confused: .. idea
That's the Captain's style. Quietly, below the radar, and in the boardroom...His being on the board of Philp Morris all these years has paid off well for him too. Rusty oughta be glad.

blownmoney
08-21-2003, 08:06 PM
Anybody who is hardcore or has worked in racing can see within 5 seconds that NASCAR is not"racing".It is a"show",with lots of noise and colors and big name drivers. "highroller".. please tell me which of these drivers are putting on a show and not racing to win? jeff gordon, dale jr, rusty wallace,tony stewart,bobby labonte,sterlin marlin,matt kenseth,kurt busch,mark martin,dale jarrett,ryan newman,jimmie johnson,elliot sadler, bill elliot,kevin harvick? please let us all know from the allmighty " highroller" which one of these guys drives around in circles to entertain you and i?.... you must be smoking some good shit to believe that!!!.. if you think these guys arn't racing every week then you need to hit that bong one more time,oh by the way just cause you've strapped your self into a sprint car for a season ,just proves that you can call yourself a racer and be ignorant aswell!

HighRoller
08-22-2003, 02:43 AM
Well,if you knew anything about "real"racing,you'd know that in racing there is no such thing as a level playing field.Only the parts and pieces are the same,it's the people who make the cars fast.NASCAR does everything they can to negate any advantage gained by any team.Instead of starting with one set of rules and letting the teams decide who wins,NASCAR steers the outcome by arbitrary rules changes and penalty enforcement.The ONLY people who can level the playing field in real world racing are the teams and the driver.In the real world of racing you don't go bitch about how the rules are unfair,because racing is inherently unfair!Somebody is always gonna beat you no matter how fast you are.If you get beat,don't go bitch about how the rules are unfair.Go back to the dyno or the fab shop and find more speed.
I never claimed to know everything about racing but I do know enough about it to see what nascar is doing.When two of the past five series champions say racing there is so scripted it's like the WWF,do you think they made it up?

blownmoney
08-22-2003, 07:33 AM
When two of the past five series champions say racing there is so scripted it's like the WWF,do you think they made it up?
like to know which two these were?, where there championships scripted aswell?, is that what there saying , somebody wrote down at the beginning of the season that they would win this yr?..hmmmm i think not..

HighRoller
08-24-2003, 05:52 PM
I think you misunderstand what I'm saying.It's not "fixed"because there are too many variables. But I'll give you an example.Tony Stewart gets penalized 5 spots for driving beneath the yellow line at Daytona.Dale Jr. does the same thing and he skates.He wins the race and Tony finishes 3rd but gets credited with 8th.Jeff Gordon won no less than 5 races in his heyday with cars that were found to be blatantly illegal with regards to ride height and valance flare out.He only paid a fine but no points were taken.Mark Martin was fined 35 points last year for a coil spring issue. And my favorite,Kurt Busch willfully and intentionally tries to crash Jimmy Spencer last week and crows on the radio about it.Jimmy Spencer punches him after the race.Spencer gets suspended and Busch gets probation.Busch could have killed another driver on purpose and he skates with probation.Why?His main associate sponsor is Sharpie.The title sponsor of this week's race is Sharpie.Busch wins the race and Spencer sits at home.You don't think decisions like that affect the outcome of races and championships???Wake up!!

mickeyfinn
08-24-2003, 06:38 PM
I can't believe any of this is any surprise to anyone who watches nascar. I am a huge fan, but I realize that it is not true stockcar racing. The main fuction of the governing body of NASCAR is to bring in the almighty dollar. If allowing someone to cause a yellow on the track by crashing into someone else intentionally sells tickets or advertising time then they will allow it. I don't believe the outcomes of the race are scripted but if you ask me which of those names are not racing to win I would answer ALL OF THEM.All you have to do is listen to the drivers speak. It is all about points. Why don't you see the mad dash for 1st place when a lot of cars are in the hunt? Simply because a racer can come in second and not take the lead but he will get his points. It is a money making machine that still makes for great entertainment. It may not be pure racing but it is "Pure competition" More than just a driver and a car. It is the whole package. Car setup, Fuel consumption, when to pit, when to charge for the checkered and when to hold what you got and take the points. Personally I would love to see a return to true stockcars but unfortunately that would mean watching a bunch of front wheel drive cars doing the old round and round. Since that is not likely to happen I will continue to support and be a fan of NASCAR. It is still good entertainment. It is just not "stock car racing"

1980SANGERV-DRIVE
08-24-2003, 07:00 PM
TONY STEWART DID IT TO PASS AND GAIN A SPOT, DALE JR WAS FORCED DOWN AND MAD A PASS FOR A POSITION

HighRoller
08-24-2003, 07:08 PM
Speaking of yellow flags,I don't know if anyone noticed Matt Kenseth's slick move last night.He went into the corner and slid up the track.RR tire was flat.Instead of immediately going to the bottom of the track and heading to the pits,he slowed to a crawl in the middle of the track, causing a huge pile-up behind him.Yellow flag comes out,he gets to pit without losing a spot!!

HighRoller
08-25-2003, 12:44 AM
TONY STEWART DID IT TO PASS AND GAIN A SPOT, DALE JR WAS FORCED DOWN AND MAD A PASS FOR A POSITION You just proved my point.Both drivers were forced beneath the line while passing but only one was penalized.See,without nascar's help Dale Jr couldn't even finish in the top ten.Tony Stewart beat the nation's best drivers to win championships in four different racing series before nascar.Dale Jr could only manage to win three times in 200 starts in a weekly late model series. But what are the odds that nascar would let the son and the legacy of their biggest hero fall on its ass?Not likely.Compared to guys like Stewart,Gordon and Newman,Dale Jr couldn't drive a dog off the porch.Let me know if you need proof of this....

058
08-25-2003, 09:02 AM
I think it would be pretty tough to decide the outcome of the races before the finish but I do think the rules and regulations are slanted towards the "fair haired" boy of the hour. Be it Jeff Gordon, or Dale Jr. I do think NASCAR gives little breaks to people like Jr. as they are trying to create a suitable replacement hero for their biggest box office draw, Dale Sr. Proof of this is evident when they focus TV coverage in on a battle for, say 4th and 5th place when our "hero" is involved when there is just as exciting battle for 1st & 2nd or 2nd and 3rd among two or 3 "unknowns". Its show business, nothing more.

BLUBYU
08-25-2003, 06:08 PM
HUFFPOWER:
i love nascar and have for years,but it is slowly starting to sour, mike helton and the france's only have one main agenda, "be politically and corporate correct" !!! get all the media you can, but by god the drivers best be on thier best behavior, boring !!, and if your a driver don't rock the boat,it's suppose to be an american series !! keep it that way, toyota / honda/ nissian can compete in irl/ indy/ world sports car,look at darlington, they moved it for another race in cali, shame on nascar for ruining tradition, i hope it snows in nov !!!!!! the best deal in racing is NHRA,at least you can see and speak to the drivers and team members !!!! the best old series for pure thunder was the can-am series with chapparal/ mclaren cars !!!!! keep it up helton and company, your messing with a good thing, STOP BEING SO GREEDY !!!!!!!!!!! YEA, what he said. Was a Nascar fan for 25 years but now have more interest in NHRA. If you didn't know better, you'd think Nascar was being run by the WWF.

burbanite
10-06-2003, 12:55 PM
Just to keep things moving as the season end draws closer here is an article I came across recently...
--------------------
NASCAR has global dreams
--------------------
Ed Hinton
October 3, 2003
"NASCAR International" read the original company logo. The second part, in small print, seemed pretentious. NASCAR was barely interstate.
But such was the ambition of Bill France Sr., "Big Bill," the founder of what has turned out to be "the most American of sports," as Manhattan marketers like to call it now.
He thought beyond the borders, constantly courted the Federation Internationale de l'Automobile in Paris, touted his version of racing as far away as Brazil, and took his biggest stock-car star, Fireball Roberts, to Le Mans to drive a Ferrari in 1958.
Then under Big Bill's less-visionary, more-pragmatic son, Bill France Jr., "International" disappeared from the logo. NASCAR tucked cautiously within the borders. Beyond them lay international law, where all sorts of sea monsters might dwell.
Now comes third-generation Brian France to the throne, as chairman and CEO. He and his chief lieutenants have been dropping the I-word again, albeit carefully.
They disclaim notions of actually racing abroad -- for now. What they covet, it seems, is a global audience like that of Formula One, which drew more than 400 million viewers worldwide for last Sunday's U.S. Grand Prix at Indianapolis, compared to 9 million American viewers of the NASCAR race at Talladega.
But the real sea change in attitude is not here, so much as on the other side of the pond -- rather, the other sides of both ponds.
Just a few years ago, F1 racers didn't even consider NASCAR real racing. It was but a bump-and-grind show unworthy of attention. And the moguls of Grand Prix racing hadn't a clue of the NASCAR explosion in the United States, which began in the '90s. They thought CART was the most popular form of U.S. racing.
"And then there's NASCAR, which nobody sees," a powerful if unofficial F1 figure said to me at the Grand Prix of Monaco, dismissing the ruffians out of hand. She finally took my word for it that NASCAR's audience was a little more than "nobody," and visited a Daytona 500, after which she was breathless on the phone about all the profits evident everywhere, from TV to a level of merchandising she had never imagined.
By last weekend's USGP at Indy, NASCAR's new international image was evident time and again, anecdotally.
"If they were to announce a race at Rockingham Park [a new oval in England], they'd sell it out like that," a British journalist friend said with a snap of his fingers. He is perhaps the United Kingdom's best authority on motor racing.
"Exactly the same in Germany," a German writer said of EuroSpeedway, an oval near Lausitz where CART tried but petered out.
Most telling was the attitude of Jacques Villeneuve, the Quebec-born, European-raised driver who is now 32 and has wasted several seasons with a lackluster team since he won the world F1 championship in 1997. He is running out of options in F1. But he won't return to CART (where he won the Indy 500 and the CART championship in '95, before the disastrous Indy car split) and absolutely will not drive in the Indy Racing League, which he blames for ruining open-wheel racing in North America.
Just for fun, on a long shot, expecting a scoffed dismissal, I threw out the question: Would Villeneuve remotely consider driving in NASCAR?
"Why not?" he said with sincerity in his eyes. He said he knows little or nothing about it, other than watching on TV occasionally, but he can see the crowds and the opulence that make it "something worth looking into."
Europeans have gotten the message that CART is dying, and the IRL has drawn nothing like CART once did. Europeans now realize NASCAR is the big deal in American racing, and they're beginning to pay more and more attention.
Then there's the Pacific Rim. "They're showing NASCAR on television in Indonesia now," an Asian reporter noted when, after the USGP was over, a lot of journalists from around the world gathered by TV monitors to watch the Talladega finish.
Toyota is well on its way into NASCAR, somewhat at the behest of Brian France when he was a vice president concerned with marketing and media. This appears to be a precedent for welcoming international manufacturers, where NASCAR previously was a club open only to Detroit.
Just how all of these situations and conditions will converge in the next several years isn't clear. What's certain is that somewhere in the archives, there's a sketch of Big Bill France's old logo: "NASCAR International" ... and that somebody had better dust it off.
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