PDA

View Full Version : Do You Take Your Business Clients Boating?



Boatcop
01-18-2003, 08:04 PM
Got this through one of my sources:
New U.S. Customs Regulation Interpretation May Wreak Havoc with Boat Use for Business Entertainment
All recreational and commercial boats used for business entertainment may require Coastal Trade Endorsement.
All boats may require licensed captains
Foreign-built boats may be barred from business entertainment use in U.S. waters. Many may lose boatÂ’s business entertainment tax deductions
The United States Custom Service recently has made changes in its interpretation of the definition of “passengers” that may negatively impact boatbuilders selling to the U.S. market; United States service and repair facilities, retail sellers, lenders and insurers; and U.S. boat owners who use their sail or powerboats for business entertainment purposes.
The United States Customs Service now interprets the definition of a “passenger” on a vessel being used for business or business entertainment purposes to mean any person onboard a boat while under way who is not directly involved in the operation, ownership, or navigation of the boat. Vessels carrying “passenger(s)” must be under the command of properly licensed operators.
Under the new interpretation, to carry a business guest (passenger), a boat must be registered in the United States Documentation System with a “coastal trade endorsement;” such an endorsement allows for the carriage of passengers for hire with a licensed captain in command. Only U. S.-built boats qualify for this “trade endorsement,” and must be of at least five net tons in its measurement, which is usually around 26' in length. Any boat built outside of the United States—whether considered recreational or commercial—could not be used for business entertainment purposes, as it would not qualify for a trade endorsement.
If this interpretation—and subsequent enforcement—of these regulations stand, it also calls into question the status of the business expense tax deductions for boats legitimately used for business entertainment.
At this time, the U. S. Coast Guard Documentation Office may not even be able to process the volume of boats that will require conversion into the United States Documentation system under the new interpretation. And, it is also questionable as to whether the licensing branch of the Coast Guard could process the number of applications needed for captainÂ’s licenses.
In English, this means if you take a client, potential client, or business associate boating (or fishing, or a cruise to Calalina, or....?), and claim that trip on your expense account, or report it to the IRS as a "Business Expense", you will be required to have the boat inspected and certified by the Coast Guard, and to have a Coast Guard Captain's License.
If the boat is eligible for certification (ie. over 5 net tons/26 feet) the IRS may require proof of proper certification and licensing before it will accept the expense as deductible.
Also, if your boat (Yacht?) was built in another country (Canada included), you won't be eligible for the certification/License, and therefor precluded from using it for business entertainment.
There are Maritime Attorneys investigating this ruling, and I'm awaiting an explanation from the Customs Service, Coast Guard and IRS.
As soon as I get word of the responses, I'll let everyone know.
[ January 18, 2003, 08:08 PM: Message edited by: Boatcop ]

JetBoatRich
01-18-2003, 09:27 PM
I didn't know!
Thanks for the update Alan, I'm sure this will be news to a lot on here
[ January 18, 2003, 09:28 PM: Message edited by: JetBoatRich ]

locogringo
01-18-2003, 09:41 PM
Why not just go and get your Captain's lic.?
That way you would also be allowed to park your 36 or bigger boat in the Channel at Havasu.

got river?
01-18-2003, 10:03 PM
Alan,
If I use my shop boat (made in the US, 23') for people to demo our products, does that count as entertainment? Or are we excused because our boat is under the 26' requirement? Does this mean I have yet another thing to worry about?
Thanks for the help!

Moomawnster
01-19-2003, 01:34 AM
Hmmm... what is it with lawmakers ? they don't even do the job they HAVE but they keep coming up with more ..... I wouldn't worry about it because I think this sounds un-enforcable like a good many other "laws" we get saddled with .....I guess the goal is to make criminals of the entire population ? WTF! ..... :mad:

Rayhill
01-19-2003, 07:24 AM
Moomawnster:
Hmmm... what is it with lawmakers ? they don't even do the job they HAVE but they keep coming up with more ..... I wouldn't worry about it because I think this sounds un-enforcable like a good many other "laws" we get saddled with .....I guess the goal is to make criminals of the entire population ? WTF! ..... :mad: 5 for that!!! Moo.

Moomawnster
01-19-2003, 07:51 AM
Thanks Rayhill ....I'm on a rant this morning! :D Now picture this , I get my captains license after years of study ,the license I earn gives me the qualifications to navigate an ocean going vessel measured by gross tonnage in any country in the world ...... all so I can make a few hundred bucks towing skiers on my home lake In a 16 ft Tahiti!!???? eek! , Aye Aye captain ! :rolleyes:

wsuwrhr
01-19-2003, 07:52 AM
I gave you 5 for that bullshit too. Soon enough we won't leave the house in fear of going to jail.
Brian

Moomawnster
01-19-2003, 08:09 AM
Hmmm ... maybe make the "passenger" part owner for the duration of the trip ? Let them "navigate" ? Hell if you play observer for a waterskier you are part of the crew ! surely someone will drive a tank through the loopholes in this dumb shit ! :D On the other hand.. we all have stories about the "captain" who hasn't got a clue ... and there are quite a few who I will NOT ride with ! eek!

gnarley
01-19-2003, 11:03 PM
I just dosen't seem right that many dealers who take out "passengers" in the hopes of selling a boat or Yacht to them as part of doing business would now need licensing or wouldn't be able to deduct that cost of doing business.???
It's not right.

FishBoneRipple III
01-20-2003, 06:13 AM
Since US Customs jurisdiction is really Ports of Entry, import/export of goods, trade with foreign countries, etc. - how can this be applied to inland waters such as Lakes Havasu, Mead, Tahoe, etc.? US Customs IS NOT charged with regulating privately owned pleasure boats, interstate commerce, etc.
Customs has always had a prohibition on foreign vessels (registered NOT manufactured) engaging in intercoastal trade, including such activities as fishing (both commericial and guided private parties, private hire, etc. They have also regulated the operation of cruise ships and entry of cruise vessels into the US from the standpoint of checking for import of banned or regulated items into the US, or entry of individuals into the US (although this is a cross over function with US Immigration).
This looks like an expansion on the regulation of cruise ships or vessels "for hire" and not necessarily privately owned, US registered, pleasure boats.
I'm not debating your "source's" interpretation or information, I don't think we have the whole story on this one yet as it would represent a wholesale change in US Customs' mission in general.

Jordy
01-20-2003, 08:40 AM
It looks to me as though it is being driven by the IRS to limit the number of deductions you can take on a pleasure boat by claiming it's a business write-off. I have a few buddies with 36'+ boats that are written entirely off to business and I'm guessing that the IRS is tired of seeing that kind of stuff, therefore, if you are going to claim it as a write-off, the IRS will make it more of a pain in the ass than it is worth to you, imagine that. That's how I'm reading it anyway.

FishBoneRipple III
01-20-2003, 11:33 AM
I doubt the IRS has anything to do with this since getting a second agency involved is not IRS's style - only complicates life for them as then they're not in total control. IRS can't use another agency's regulation as tax law requirement.
They have plenty of regulations & tax court judgements to backup their requirements for the legitimate business use of an type of item (car, truck, boat, PC computer, etc.) as a business expense.
This would be like them getting the Department of Transporation involved with the legitimate use of business automobiles & making you get a commercial driver's license to make that use legal.

roostwear
01-20-2003, 11:50 AM
Here's a little more info....
http://www.boating-industry.com/news.asp?mode=4&N_ID=37559

FishBoneRipple III
01-20-2003, 01:14 PM
The link just gives you the information Boatcop posted. The link to www.marineliens.com (http://www.marineliens.com) is misspelled twice in the article. A thorough search of the US Customs website including all of the rulings in 2002, and to date for 2003, gives no indication of this "information" from marineliens.com.
It would be nice if they'd cite their source of information for the supposed US Customs ruling or regulation since it is not in the Federal Register or in any ruling published on the Customs Service site.

haulina29
01-20-2003, 06:22 PM
MAY is the key word it says nothing about taking a client to the river LOL