F**kin Conservatives [Archive]

BUSTI

07-10-2003, 10:38 AM

Catcommiedo,
You are pathetic! Tou lost and you are still bitter over it. Since then you have been absent of facts and figures and you have reduced your arguements to personal attacks. In case you haven't been keeping up with current events our President ( he's your President as well whether you like it or not) has an overall approval rating of over 65 per cent of Americans including Republicans and democrats. Grow up and be prepared for another ass whipping at the next election. You sound like the national democratic leadership...devoid of original ideas and reduced to name calling...a reciepe for another democratic election failure thank God!!!!!!
How does it feel to be on a side that has failed at every major social issue it has ever attempted:
1) social security=bankrupt=failure
2) medicare=bankrupt=failure
3) welfare=ridden with fraud and now over 70 percent of black children are born out of wedlock cuz welfare destroyed black fathers and black families=failure
4) affirmative action=no more black kids graduate from college as a percent of the total black population than before affirmative action=failure
5) Environmentalism=just a cover for anti America and anti business strategies that have kept us dependent on foriegn oil=failure
6) Gay rights speaks for its self=failure
You belong to a party that has a track record of abysmal failure over the last 60 years. You are with out philosophy, and an acceptable knowledge of history and have been reduced to crying baby like name calling. As I have posted before respond to my ideas and try to have a real debate. Provide me with your own ideas instead of calling OUR PRESIDENT names. :p

Havasu_Dreamin

07-10-2003, 11:27 AM

miller19j:
I dont mind a debate at all. The problem is that you rarely have any facts or valid points. You seem to make thing up as you go. Quite frankly all you have proved with all your posts is that you are one of the most uneducated people on these boards and not worth debating with. That's the standard operating procedures of ALL liberals! Liberals never have any facts to back up their claims!

MagicMtnDan

07-10-2003, 12:19 PM

Dude, you're a liberal bile-spouter. Let's talk about one of your "issues" - Weapons of Mass Destruction. ANYONE who denies they existed - denies that Iraq had them is a total, simple fool. Denying WMDs in Iraq indicates you're simply ignorant and anti-Bush. There can be no denial of WMDs because there is incontrovertible (impossible to dispute; unquestionable) proof and it's everywhere. All you need to do is look at the thousands of dead people in Iraq who were killed by Hussein and his henchmen.
I'd address the other issues but (a) I don't have time (b) talking to a close-minded (you) person and (c) there's no chance you'll recover from your liberal-induced stupor.
I almost feel sorry for you Catmando. But when you accuse us of being blinded, etc., you should look in the mirror. YOU'RE the one who is blinded - by your own ignorance.
[ July 10, 2003, 01:22 PM: Message edited by: MagicMtnDan ]

MRS FLYIN VEE

07-10-2003, 12:22 PM

Well said MMD. :)

mickeyfinn

07-10-2003, 12:27 PM

MRS FLYIN VEE:
Close enough he's in texas. only two things come out of texas!! :D :D And I'll bet you find no horns on him....Guess we know what that leaves.

unleashed

07-10-2003, 12:30 PM

All Politicians suck. Period end of story! Bush, Clinton, Reagon, Carter, Ford, Kennedy, Nixon they are all of the same bread. Looking out for special interests and there own agendas. But Hey its still the best the world has to offer so get over it.
Deano
Unleashedclothing (http://www.unleashedclothing.com) devil

MRS FLYIN VEE

07-10-2003, 12:30 PM

YUP! you got it babie. LOL!!

Blown 472

07-10-2003, 12:33 PM

Blown 472

07-10-2003, 12:34 PM

Blown 472

07-10-2003, 12:34 PM

unleashed

07-10-2003, 12:43 PM

Hey Blown, Are you trying to make a point! :)
On another note, That girl in your avatar always brightens my day. Now if i could only find out where to meet her. :confused:
Deano
Unleashedclothing (http://www.unleashedclothing.com) devil

CA Stu

07-10-2003, 01:00 PM

unleashed:
All Politicians suck. Period end of story! Bush, Clinton, Reagon, Carter, Ford, Kennedy, Nixon they are all of the same bread. Looking out for special interests and there own agendas. But Hey its still the best the world has to offer so get over it.
Deano
You can't lump that group together at all, in my opinion.
Ron Reagan was the man, I reckon. Guy had big balls! Like the time he whispered to his neighbor at the conference table about bombing the Soviet Union "back to the stone age", and acted like he didn't know the microphone was on? That's my kind of Pres.!
And as for our current President, I voted for him, and I like his agenda: Cut taxes and strengthen the military? Sounds good to me
:)
CA Stu

HighRoller

07-10-2003, 01:01 PM

Catmando,you shouldn't be calling anyone ignorant after what you just said.Let's review the FACTS:
No proof of WMDs You don't consider anthrax and other chemical and biological/nerve agents weapons of mass destruction?5000 dead Kurds is proof enough.
no proof of an Iraqi/al Qaeda connection, no NOTHIN. You got NOTHIN.
I guess they didn't anounce this on the Michael Moore show,but they just found the Iraqi dude who was in cahoots with the mastermind of 9-11.He was from Iraq,lived in Iraq and is suspected of aiding the 9-11 plot.As far as your other allegations about coke snorting and deserting,where's your proof?(Other than some quack anti-Bush website run by Molly Ivins or some other full-time Bush hater)
Like any good liberal you never let the facts dissuade you.You're pissed because while the military universally considers Democrat presidents a joke,they can feel proud now that they have someone who does not try to foist social engineering projects upon them and make them subordinate to the UN.Regardless of what you may think about the carrier landing,it takes more balls than you or I have got to land on a carrier in a jet fighter of any kind whether you have the stick or not!Had Bill Clinton done this you would have cheered him for being a stud.Had a democrat president ousted the most evil man since Hitler you would have praised him as a courageous man who is standing up for world peace.I will have a lot of respect for you Cat when you admit the truth.You hate GW Bush for one reason and one reason only.He's a republican.

Cole Man II

07-10-2003, 01:10 PM

If all we wanted was little vengeance and all their oil. We would have just taken it. That would have been a hell of alot easier than trying to remove the dictator and feeding all the people.
Am I the only Democrat thats not a wacky socialist?
Cole Man

BUSTI

07-10-2003, 01:14 PM

Gole Man II
Yes you are! Do the right thing admitt you are a right thinking conservative! Welcome to the right side of reason!

OutCole'd

07-10-2003, 03:00 PM

OMEGA_BUBBLE_JET:
Catmando:
The reason for this thread is highroller's thread. Y'all don't like it when the Liberal Atheist Democrat bites back? TOUGH SHIT. burningm I think you need to read a book by the name of "The Conspirators- secrets of an Iran-Contra insider" it is written by Al Martin. For that matter I think everyone should read it. It will show you that democrat/republican don't matter. Politicians are crooks!
Omega So True

OutCole'd

07-10-2003, 03:07 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by unleashed:
[QB] All Politicians suck. Period end of story! Bush, Clinton, Reagon, Carter, Ford, Kennedy, Nixon they are all of the same bread. Looking out for special interests and there own agendas. But Hey its still the best the world has to offer so get over it.
Deano
Deano, Another reply I agree with on this topic. Well said.

OutCole'd

07-10-2003, 03:10 PM

Cole Man II:
Am I the only Democrat thats not a wacky socialist?
Cole Man No, you are not alone, It must be a Cole thing. :D

HighRoller

07-10-2003, 03:23 PM

I'm glad Catmando finally admitted his TRUE problem.Atheism.Hell,I'd be pissed off too if I were an atheist.Whose name do you call out during sex?????

MRS FLYIN VEE

07-10-2003, 03:30 PM

His own!!LOL

HighRoller

07-10-2003, 03:34 PM

True Dat!!!He spanks it while thinking about Hilary becoming president in 2008!!!

MRS FLYIN VEE

07-10-2003, 03:36 PM

LMAO!! :D But I think he spanks it while saying I think I can I think I can. :D

twistedpair

07-10-2003, 03:43 PM

He's probably locked in the bathroom with Hillary's "Best Seller" as we speak.
Psssttt..... Hey Cat, She didn't even write it....and gives no credit to the people who did. Must have learned that trick from hubby, take all credit for other peoples work. Unless it it turns out like shit, then blamestorm to find a fall guy.

ROZ

07-10-2003, 03:58 PM

Catmando:
Y'all don't like it when the Liberal Atheist Democrat bites back? TOUGH SHIT. burningm No, not at all. I value the 1st amendment as much as the next guy who screams fire in a crowded theater.
Truth is that you posts carry no real facts and don't follow the hint of a simple line of logic....There's a lot of factual information that has been made to the public over many foreign affairs issues over the last 40 years, and I don't mean Hillary's book.... If you wish to make a valid, logical point, put down the People magazine and do a little real reading before you attempt to post something we can really debate.
Liberal Athiest Democrat = someone who is willing to sue over nothing.
Life's a conspiracy isn't it.
EDIT: Look toward Califoirnia's government if you really want to see what a Democrate can do for ya
[ July 10, 2003, 04:59 PM: Message edited by: ROZ ]

HighRoller

07-10-2003, 03:59 PM

Yeah,I heard the book sales have fallen flat which means the ghost writer will soon be found dead in Ft Marcy park from"suicide"and the publisher will be investigated by the New York tax authorities.....

exciter

07-10-2003, 04:10 PM

i've got an idea.
let's mind our own freakin' business.
help our own people/stop giving money to every p.o.s. country in the world ,b/c they hate us anyway
make the people speak OUR language to live here.
AND IF THEY DON'T want TO LEARN ENGLISH,GO THE F#$K HOME!!!!
P.S. ROZ,WHAT ABOUT THE URANIUM HORSESHIT FROM AFRICA.IF THEY WANTED URANIUM WE COULD HAVE SENT THEM 20 OR 30 I.C.B.M.'S
all that liar in the whitehouse has to do is push the button
[ July 10, 2003, 05:15 PM: Message edited by: exciter ]

propless

07-10-2003, 05:36 PM

As a Vietnam vet. We can bitch about without fear of being shot. Does that one point not mean something to you?

mike37

07-10-2003, 06:38 PM

exciter:
i've got an idea.
let's mind our own freakin' business.
help our own people/stop giving money to every p.o.s. country in the world ,b/c they hate us anyway
make the people speak OUR language to live here.
AND IF THEY DON'T want TO LEARN ENGLISH,GO THE F#$K HOME!!!!
P.S. ROZ,WHAT ABOUT THE URANIUM HORSESHIT FROM AFRICA.IF THEY WANTED URANIUM WE COULD HAVE SENT THEM 20 OR 30 I.C.B.M.'S
all that liar in the whitehouse has to do is push the button Always from the union side not qualified to keep you job with out help

Seadog

07-10-2003, 07:13 PM

cat just likes stirring the pot. He admires clinton because he thinks willie's sax is just a giant bong. I noticed that the democrats obeyed their masters by voting down lawsuit reform again. Kind of reminds me of the louisianna hunting game on here. The odds are against you not getting butt ****ed by them.

OutCole'd

07-10-2003, 07:44 PM

Seadog:
cat just likes stirring the pot. He admires clinton because he thinks willie's sax is just a giant bong. And just what is wrong with a giant bong? :D

Catmando

07-10-2003, 08:31 PM

mike37:
exciter:
i've got an idea.
let's mind our own freakin' business.
help our own people/stop giving money to every p.o.s. country in the world ,b/c they hate us anyway
make the people speak OUR language to live here.
AND IF THEY DON'T want TO LEARN ENGLISH,GO THE F#$K HOME!!!!
P.S. ROZ,WHAT ABOUT THE URANIUM HORSESHIT FROM AFRICA.IF THEY WANTED URANIUM WE COULD HAVE SENT THEM 20 OR 30 I.C.B.M.'S
all that liar in the whitehouse has to do is push the button Always from the union side not qualified to keep you job with out help Spoken like a true Repugnicant labor-hater. Kill the unions and bring wages down to Chinese levels, that what you want to do?

HighRoller

07-10-2003, 09:03 PM

Labor hater?The unions are the ones who are scared of competition and hard work!!They cry like little bitches everytime somebody threatens their monopoly on government labor.After all,if they privatized goverment jobs and forced laborers to compete for them the union losers would all be out on their asses because after sucking union tit for so long they don't even know what hard work is.They want a guaranteed job for life and a raise every month or they'll extort more money from you!!!!

ROZ

07-10-2003, 09:46 PM

My buddy's uncle owns a big manufacturing outfit here in Cali. He didn't mindpaying the standard increase in inflation, but disliked trying being bullied into what he already practices. That combined with the state's mob mentality practices have forced him to move his operation overseas. He's already signed contracts and expects to shut down here within the next year and a half.
My cousins employer, a brokerage firm in San Francisco, is moving to Pheonix or Denver in the next months. Since the majority of his coworkers voted on Pheonix, that's probably where they'll end up. Nice for the boss to put it up to vote, eh?

ROZ

07-10-2003, 10:01 PM

exciter:
i've got an idea.
let's mind our own freakin' business.
help our own people/stop giving money to every p.o.s. country in the world ,b/c they hate us anyway
While I don't believe the practice of funding other nations is completely necessary by the USA alone, I can only think that it is done for the greater good of the world's economy. Afterall, the USA has no economic borders and can't support itself with cycling our GNP. Especially now....
I' msure there are many reasons for it...Just trying to think logically, but I've been wrong before....
exciter:
P.S. ROZ,WHAT ABOUT THE URANIUM HORSESHIT FROM AFRICA.IF THEY WANTED URANIUM WE COULD HAVE SENT THEM 20 OR 30 I.C.B.M.'S
all that liar in the whitehouse has to do is push the button All politicians bend the truth....Remember, I come from the state that will probably have to be run by the courts if our bugetary crisis isn't controlled soon....
I haven't read enough on the current policy on what's happening in South Aferican right now to even comment...

Trash

07-10-2003, 10:03 PM

wearing a military uniform, which no President has EVER done What would you have proposed he wore? The flight suit is a required piece of equipment when flying in Navy aircraft. It is a critical element of safety gear.

THOR

07-11-2003, 05:18 AM

HighRoller:
Labor hater?The unions are the ones who are scared of competition and hard work!!They cry like little bitches everytime somebody threatens their monopoly on government labor.After all,if they privatized goverment jobs and forced laborers to compete for them the union losers would all be out on their asses because after sucking union tit for so long they don't even know what hard work is.They want a guaranteed job for life and a raise every month or they'll extort more money from you!!!! How many of the big buildings you walk into are built by unions. How many power plants, co-generation plants, etc that you get you power from were built by unions. Almost all of the good ones. Why? Because they have regulations.
They dont get raises every month dude. Stick with Catmando on where you get your facts. That post was really not credible in the least.

Mrs Big Boy Toys

07-11-2003, 05:28 AM

miller19j:
Catmando:
The reason for this thread is highroller's thread. Y'all don't like it when the Liberal Atheist Democrat bites back? TOUGH SHIT. burningm I dont mind a debate at all. The problem is that you rarely have any facts or valid points. You seem to make thing up as you go. Quite frankly all you have proved with all your posts is that you are one of the most uneducated people on these boards and not worth debating with. I agree with you miller, they always think they know everything but in fact they know nothing but lies. argue

Havasu_Dreamin

07-11-2003, 06:34 AM

THOR:
How many of the big buildings you walk into are built by unions. How many power plants, co-generation plants, etc that you get you power from were built by unions. Almost all of the good ones. Why? Because they have regulations.
They dont get raises every month dude. Stick with Catmando on where you get your facts. That post was really not credible in the least. Building regulations would still be enforced with or without unions. However, you're point on unions is not lost. IMHO they have just outlived the value that they once provided. All they care about now is how much money they can get from the membership.
As far as wages sinking "...to Chinese levels" without unions, give me a break, that would not happen, too many laws already on the books to prevent that. Does anyone here really think that some person operating a pneumatic wrench on a car assembly line tightening down 5-10 bolts deserves to get paid $25-$30 per hour for that?

THOR

07-11-2003, 07:25 AM

Regualations in terms of working conditions. And, they have not outlived anything. Unions are critical in providing benefits and proper working conditions to workers. I have walked on many 'scab' jobs where workers are not wearing hard hats, tied off correctly, etc... This is what unions provided along with benefits to workers.
Just because you dont want to pay union dues is no reason to bash them.

Blown 472

07-11-2003, 07:29 AM

THOR:
Regualations in terms of working conditions. And, they have not outlived anything. Unions are critical in providing benefits and proper working conditions to workers. I have walked on many 'scab' jobs where workers are not wearing hard hats, tied off correctly, etc... This is what unions provided along with benefits to workers.
Just because you dont want to pay union dues is no reason to bash them. I worked in a union shop and got jacked up on a daily basis for "****ing this job" meaning I was working and not standing around all day talking about football then when the boss walked thru acted like I was working, did not make any friends there but they were not paying me the company was. And it pissed me off that I had to pay them and they did shit for me.

ROZ

07-11-2003, 09:33 AM

Seadog

07-11-2003, 09:39 AM

While there needs to be a method for the workers to have input, the unions are bloated hpgs that have not kept up with society. They have run off more businesses than anything else.
In Oklahoma, we were required to pay union wages for public jobs. The problem is that they use numbers from the coastal states which are a much higher cost of living.. I have been in jobs that were both union and non=union. The union workers did less for more money, and bitch twice as much. In most cases, if it wasn't for union costs, more public projects could have been done.
All workers have rights and can fight for those rights without union input. Major projects can easily be done without union so-called quality. It depends more on the careful oversight by the owner than anything else.
I have seen too many cases where people have lost jobs because the union was not willing to work with the company. And I have seen more than my share of situations where the unions have used intimidation tactics to suppress the voice of dissenters.

THOR

07-11-2003, 10:01 AM

ROZ:
THOR:
Regualations in terms of working conditions. And, they have not outlived anything. Unions are critical in providing benefits and proper working conditions to workers. I have walked on many 'scab' jobs where workers are not wearing hard hats, tied off correctly, etc... This is what unions provided along with benefits to workers.
Just because you dont want to pay union dues is no reason to bash them. Please correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't OSHA set andattempt to control a safe working standard? OSHA does yes. But, it is a company policy to enforce the rules.

mike37

07-11-2003, 05:22 PM

THOR:
ROZ:
THOR:
Regualations in terms of working conditions. And, they have not outlived anything. Unions are critical in providing benefits and proper working conditions to workers. I have walked on many 'scab' jobs where workers are not wearing hard hats, tied off correctly, etc... This is what unions provided along with benefits to workers.
Just because you dont want to pay union dues is no reason to bash them. Please correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't OSHA set andattempt to control a safe working standard? OSHA does yes. But, it is a company policy to enforce the rules. Cal OSHA what a joke
The union boys dont even follow their rules
And for the unions building all the big stuff thats bull
But they do have a monopoly on most of it
Always hear the union boys bragging about how long they can stand around and do nothing

Jungle Boy

07-11-2003, 07:10 PM

Workers with a strong union mentality are nothing but a bunch of communists. Everyone is equal: this is bullshit, cause they aren't. You only have to do the same amount of work as the lazyest ****er on the crew to fit in. It robs all worker incentive to work harder and possible climb the ladder. As far as safety goes, all companies fall under the same regulations for worker safety. Unions just milk it harder. Unions drive costs up.

THOR

07-11-2003, 08:48 PM

Jungle Boy:
Workers with a strong union mentality are nothing but a bunch of communists. Everyone is equal: this is bullshit, cause they aren't. You only have to do the same amount of work as the lazyest ****er on the crew to fit in. It robs all worker incentive to work harder and possible climb the ladder. As far as safety goes, all companies fall under the same regulations for worker safety. Unions just milk it harder. Unions drive costs up. Spoken like a true Canadian. I dont come on here and bash your country. Union worker make more money because they are tested on their skills via schools and training. Simple.
Most scab outfits done have retirement plans. Over 60%
Most dont have medical coverage. Over60%
etc
these are the facts

Jungle Boy

07-11-2003, 09:10 PM

THOR:
Jungle Boy:
Workers with a strong union mentality are nothing but a bunch of communists. Everyone is equal: this is bullshit, cause they aren't. You only have to do the same amount of work as the lazyest ****er on the crew to fit in. It robs all worker incentive to work harder and possible climb the ladder. As far as safety goes, all companies fall under the same regulations for worker safety. Unions just milk it harder. Unions drive costs up. Spoken like a true Canadian. I dont come on here and bash your country. Union worker make more money because they are tested on their skills via schools and training. Simple.
Most scab outfits done have retirement plans. Over 60%
Most dont have medical coverage. Over60%
etc
these are the facts Do you think that we don't have unions here? I have plenty union worker friends and a brother in law that is high up in the system. So don't give me that shit. I've worked in various places around the world on union oil rigs. It is not just a USA problem. My union working friends used to argue about "job quality" & "workers rights" and all the other bullshit, but now that they are a older and wiser, they know the reality of it too well. They are there because they have it made; good benefits, easy work (code for dog****ers) and the boss can't fire them without a big fight. They laugh at the ease of their work and great pay. They are like robots at work - Nobody moves, Nobody gets hurt. Sorry I didn't make that more clear in my previous post. I'm happy to work hard for my money and I'll take my licks if I **** up and get fired. :D
PS - I hope that I did not give the idea that I was bashing your country. That was not my intension. wink
[ July 11, 2003, 10:30 PM: Message edited by: Jungle Boy ]

058

07-11-2003, 09:46 PM

I thought all buildings were done to code...statewide building codes, not union codes, not employer codes, not purchaser or tennant codes........It makes no difference who builds the building or bridge to conform to the accepted building codes. If the codes aren't met the building doesn't get signed off and completed.

HighRoller

07-11-2003, 10:00 PM

Hey Thor,I'm a SCAB and always will be.You are a prime example of the union entitlement mentality.You think just because you work somewhere the employer owes you the world.Retirement and health care are NOT mandatory.We scabs can actually get in our scab-mobiles and go to a financial planner and start a retirement plan,then drive over to an insurance company and get our own insurance if we want.It's called self reliance.Do you ask the union to feed your kids too?Does the union wipe your ass and give you a bottle after work?Why don't you add up ALL your union dues paid in your lifetime and then calculate how much money that would be had you invested it wisely.We scabs would rather have the money in our pocket and spend it as we choose rather than have some fat-cat union use it to pay off the local politicians.
High(Proud to be a scab)Roller

40oz'nHO's

07-11-2003, 10:01 PM

Union workers are the laziest bunch of ****ers there are. Union contractors are few and far between where I live because they all go broke. "Live better, work union" ya what ever you lazy ****s, suck a dick.

565edge

07-11-2003, 10:17 PM

**** THE UNION!Those bastards always walked on my job and started talking all there shit to all my guys,they finally showed up when i was there and i almost showed them how the old west was won!About a month goes buy and the contractors board and edd show up at one of my jobs,thanks to the union ****!Before this happened i really didnt care about them showing up,as long as it was at the right times(break or lunch)Im not paying my guys to talk to some lyeing piece of shit!I heard from more than one person how the union was going to shut me down and they called osha,edd and the contractors board on me,well im still in business and they can still **** off with the rest off commy democrats!What about the union meetings where they drill the guys about voting democratic and if they dont the economy will dry up and there will be no work,they used to come on my dad's jobs when i was younger until my dad had a vietnam flashback and threw two 24" pipe wrenches at them from about 20 feet in the air,they quite coming around until i took over the business(republican and proud of it),I remember the hate my dad had for these ****ERS,almost as bad as he hates communists like the democrats.He use to tell me storeis about coming home from NAM and people trying to spit at him at the airports.Then he would see Jane Fonda on t.v. and start freaking out about that commy *****,We need to take back the country and Bush is doing a great job in my eyes!

HighRoller

07-11-2003, 11:03 PM

Yeah,the unions know that based on merit,quality and cost they can't compete with non-union firms.All the state road crews are union,but what happens when they have a bridge come down and need it fixed ASAP?They hire a non-union company because they know it will get done just as well and 3 times as fast.The only way unions can continue to survive is through intimidation,bribery and coersion.Any time one of our jobs gets threatened we work harder to prove we can do it better.A union just starts threatening people,or they stand outside and harass all the non-union workers.No wonder why union membership has dropped 50% in the last 15 years.

sandblasted

07-12-2003, 06:02 AM

HighRoller:
No wonder why union membership has dropped 50% in the last 15 years. Except in the one area where we should not have unions...Government employees!..In fact union membership is increasing for City, state and federal employees across the country...So not only are these people protected civil servants but they have unions to extort our government for them...

THOR

07-12-2003, 07:27 AM

HighRoller:
Yeah,the unions know that based on merit,quality and cost they can't compete with non-union firms.All the state road crews are union,but what happens when they have a bridge come down and need it fixed ASAP?They hire a non-union company because they know it will get done just as well and 3 times as fast.The only way unions can continue to survive is through intimidation,bribery and coersion.Any time one of our jobs gets threatened we work harder to prove we can do it better.A union just starts threatening people,or they stand outside and harass all the non-union workers.No wonder why union membership has dropped 50% in the last 15 years. Hey scab, I though you were a caulk salesman. Where can a union apply to you? Hmmm, wierd.
When you made the comment about getting jobs done early, how is that possible without cutting corners?
My statements come from first hand experience. I am no longer in the construction field but was at one time. I never swung a hammer but was on the sales end.
High (proud to be a scab) Roller, you of all people should thank the union for building some of those nice ass hotels/casinos you have in Laughlin. Yes, the majority of them are union outfits.
THOR (always wrong and getting bashed for it)

THOR

07-12-2003, 07:30 AM

Jungle Boy:
THOR:
Jungle Boy:
Workers with a strong union mentality are nothing but a bunch of communists. Everyone is equal: this is bullshit, cause they aren't. You only have to do the same amount of work as the lazyest ****er on the crew to fit in. It robs all worker incentive to work harder and possible climb the ladder. As far as safety goes, all companies fall under the same regulations for worker safety. Unions just milk it harder. Unions drive costs up. Spoken like a true Canadian. I dont come on here and bash your country. Union worker make more money because they are tested on their skills via schools and training. Simple.
Most scab outfits done have retirement plans. Over 60%
Most dont have medical coverage. Over60%
etc
these are the facts Do you think that we don't have unions here? I have plenty union worker friends and a brother in law that is high up in the system. So don't give me that shit. I've worked in various places around the world on union oil rigs. It is not just a USA problem. My union working friends used to argue about "job quality" & "workers rights" and all the other bullshit, but now that they are a older and wiser, they know the reality of it too well. They are there because they have it made; good benefits, easy work (code for dog****ers) and the boss can't fire them without a big fight. They laugh at the ease of their work and great pay. They are like robots at work - Nobody moves, Nobody gets hurt. Sorry I didn't make that more clear in my previous post. I'm happy to work hard for my money and I'll take my licks if I **** up and get fired. :D
PS - I hope that I did not give the idea that I was bashing your country. That was not my intension. wink I was just being a smart ass about the county bashing thing. No worries. I too work my ass off for my money, but then again, I dont make shit.
The injury part is not true, unions just like to boast about their safety. There just aren't many non-union periodicals to publish statistics in.
(Guys, I am calling you all scabs out of fun. Dont take it as a slam.)
talk to you lazy scabs later

mickeyfinn

07-12-2003, 10:52 AM

I can't believe that unions continue to exist in this country. They have outlived there reason for being. Laws protect the wage rates, along with something that some people here seem to forget about....It is called supply and demand. If we have 200 people skilled in swinging a hammer and I only need to hire 15 of them I should be free to negotiate whatever the best price for that labor I can, but not on a union job. As far as working conditions go I have seen union jobs that are just as unsafe as non-union jobs. I suspect that the members of the union would be up in arms if they didn't payroll deduct the union due. I feel about the same as I do about income tax. If people actually had the money in their hands and then had to fork it over to the union I'll bet a lot of them would decide F#*ck this....The union not doing anything for me. The same with income taxes..If you do away with payroll deduction and let people see how much money they are really paying in taxes there would be a revolt. The Unions are a money hungry power hungry industry that is thriving on the peoples desire to get something for nothing. They enjoy the right to legally blackmail companies into hiring more labor than they need, paying overinflated wages to underskilled workers and accepting substandard quality. Have you walked through some of the large buildings, casinos etc that the "Union" built. If work like that were done in my home there is no way in hell I would have accepted it.
Just my .02
[ July 12, 2003, 11:53 AM: Message edited by: mickeyfinn ]

HighRoller

07-12-2003, 01:10 PM

Thor,let me tell you a little union story about casino employees.A female friend of mine was working part-time at a casino while going to school in Vegas.Well,the food and beverage employees went on strike at her casino,luckily she wasn't a union employee.So she goes to work and encounters all these people in the parking lot telling her she can't go to work.She tries to explain that she works as a concierge not F&B but they don't care.They said if they are on strike everyone is.She ended up having to call security to escort her into the building every day for a week and had to have a friend drop her off because they threatened to slash her tires and break her windows while she was at work.

AzDon

07-12-2003, 03:29 PM

For those of you who believe Bush won the election, I've got one word for you...Florida!!
Gore was elected by the people and would have won the electoral vote if the Supreme court would have done the fair and right thing by excluding or splitting Florida's electoral vote (fair and right because even after Jeb Bush's people used every underhanded tactic they could to rig Florida, it was merely hopelessly deadlocked. Since being "selected" by a one vote margin of the Supreme Court, he has single-handedly made a balanced budget into a six-trillion dollar (and counting) deficit, The economy is in the toilet, the stock market has crashed, and he has failed to catch his bad guy in two wars now.
Those of you who don't believe that his service in the Texas National Gaurd wasn't an elitist draft dodge probably won't accept the facts that he also was a deserter or a drug user. You also probably believe that his education is legit and that his Business successes were something more than the use of his last name to insure success to those who put the money in his pockets. Whitewater, Travelgate, and Monicagate, and the linclon bedroom smear were sophmoric non-issues that had nothing to do with our former president's job performance, but I gotta tell you, all of this guy's (Bush's) activities have been damaging to the working folks of this country and some have bordered on treason! His popularity baffles me because his record is hardly secret. Perhaps the polls are being bought for this guy like everthing else has been in his pathetic life. People that support this guy must be:
a) stupid and ignorant
b)"my party right or wrong" types
c)billionaires who are making lots of money from our re-allocated social security (tax cuts)
You people need to realize that, beginning with the election, he has been and is a counterfeit president, because the people, in their wisdom, didn't elect him!
You also need to get a clue about all the crap he's pulling and his past.
Here's some links:
www.aflcio.org/issuespolitics/Bushwatch/index.cfm?ms=ovgeorgewbush (http://www.aflcio.org/issuespolitics/Bushwatch/index.cfm?ms=ovgeorgewbush)
http://www.nrdc.org
http://www.realchange.org/bushjr.htm
www.gwbush.com (http://www.gwbush.com)
www.michaelmoore.com (http://www.michaelmoore.com)
As to your slam of Michael Moore, I think he's smarter and more qualified to be president and I've written and told him so!

propless

07-12-2003, 05:18 PM

As a fellow boater who loves to be spun and spin people in the water at fast speeds, you to must be an enthusiast as well, who has struck his head and is confused. However, if you have not been subjected to radical boating thrills and you believe in the cramp you espoused, excuse me sir, BITE MY ASS you piss ant!

Seadog

07-12-2003, 05:32 PM

AzDon just proved that PT Barnum was right. The left wing nuts post something on teh net and every one of them believes it as gospel. First off, the press proved that Bush's victory would have held up under any circumstances. Second one of the most left wing state supreme courts stuck their noses in a federal election against the law before the Supreme Court got involved.
The only people that don't rea;ize that the rich are (as defined by the Democrats) paying the bulk of the taxes are fools, die-hard dumocrats adn the people who don't pay taxes.

HighRoller

07-12-2003, 06:04 PM

Don,why don't you present facts from a fair and balanced source.Michael Moore is a left wing extremist bomb thrower.The AFL-CIO is a leftist pro Democrat labor orginization.NRDC is a leftist environmentalist group.All are,as you put it,"my party right or wrong"types.How about some REAL facts Don:
The economy was declining two years before the election,and statistics show so.Unfortunately the press was still trying to develop the Clinton legacy and refused to print the truth.Only after Bush became president elect did the press begin pasting the pages ceaselessly with talk of a recession.
The budget was NEVER balanced during the Clinton years,unless you count raiding the social security trust fund to balance it.
The supreme court of Florida tried to allow SELECTIVE recounts of votes in Florida and were stopped,rightly so.
The corporate scandals that have decimated much of the stock market areas ALL developed during the Clinton administration.
These"billionaires"you hate so much comprise about 1 percent of the population and pay over 40% of the tax burden.In fact,the top 5% of wage earners pay over 50% of taxes.
His popularity baffles you because just like the rest of the Democrats you don't have a clue!Unlike Clinton,Bush is actually capable of making a decision without 6 months of focus groups.Unlike Clinton he speaks his mind and takes a stand for America regardless of how unpopular it is with other countries.And unlike the Democrats he doesn't spend his whole life trying to discredit his opponents with petty accusations and derogatory rhetoric.You might not like his agenda,but at least he HAS one.The Dems don't have a policy for anything.They(and you)are pissed because Bush has shown LEADERSHIP during his tenure and the American people like it.I hope the Dems continue to be obsessed with smearing Bush,because so far everything they've done has backfired in their faces.(Remember the mid-term elections?)

HighRoller

07-12-2003, 06:25 PM

Oh,I forgot to expand on your hero Mr. Moore.He has a link to the ALA(American Library Association)on his site.This is the organization that defends the right of public libraries to allow children to access porn sites on library computers.In fact,when communities,parents and city councils told the libraries to modify the computers as to prevent children from accidentally accessing porn,the ALA and ACLU sued them.That's right folks,Michael Moore is against kepping porn off the screens of your child's computer at the library.A real pillar of society ain't he?

AzDon

07-12-2003, 06:39 PM

The economy was declining before the election? That is a complete and total lie! I suppose that the economy was recovering before Clinton took office? (another lie!!) I guess it also doesn't bother you that the Bush administration conspired with Enron to F__k California's residents and then did nothing to fix it when it happened. I suppose you'll also deny that Haliburton got exclusive restoration contracts for Iraq oil fields before the war was even fought! I am pissed that this counterfeit president has squandered my social security. You Bush supporters are in total denial about the damage this administration is doing to the country.
[ July 12, 2003, 10:27 PM: Message edited by: AzDon ]

Nokomis

07-12-2003, 06:43 PM

AzDon, you're a penis just for writing to Michael Moore (who also is a penis)

jlnorthrup122

07-12-2003, 06:54 PM

As far as Oil goes the retards in the white house should go to hemp that shit will grow anywhere. And Bush senior flew a fighterplane in WW2 that was lubed with hemp oil! Oh well all them ****ing polititions are pieces of shits anyhow so ****em all in the end!

HighRoller

07-12-2003, 07:00 PM

the Bush administration conspired with Enron to F__k California's residents and then did nothing to fix it when it happened I'm trying not to suffocate from laughing so hard!!Gay Davis was the one who ****ed California.Wake up.Davis had to pay top dollar for energy bought from outside sources while the semi-regulated power companies inside California sold their power to other states.Now,as far as the economy,Bush wasn't even in office 4 months when the Democrats declared the economy was wrecked.Now tell me how a great economy can go south in 3 months?Impossible.The Democrats' idea of stimulus is extending unemployment benefits to people who have already been sitting on their asses for 39 weeks!!!How does unemployment encourage stimulus Don?We the people are the ONLY ones who can make the economy better,not some politician.

HighRoller

07-12-2003, 07:10 PM

Please stay to your current course,by the way.Every accusation you make about a popular president drives the Democrats further and further from power.No need to actually mention what positive things Democrats have done,just keep hammering Bush with negatives.It worked in the last two elections!!!

HOSS

07-12-2003, 07:19 PM

Catmando:
I'm crackin up at how Bush has fooled all of you into thinking he has the best interests of you and this country at heart. How you could follow an ignorant, coke-snorting military deserter, while at the same time cheer his publicity stunt on the USS Lincoln(Abe must've rotated like a whirlwind in his grave), wearing a military uniform, which no President has EVER done, is beyond me. He and his henchmen are slowly turning this country into a nation of fawning sheeple with no 1st Amendment to protect them.
And as far as the Iraq "war"(more like a JOKE) is concerned, oil and vengeance were the REAL reasons for it, like it or not. No proof of WMDs, no proof of an Iraqi/al Qaeda connection, no NOTHIN. You got NOTHIN.
9/11= 15 Saudis, 4 Egyptians, 0 Iraqis I agree with you to an extent. Was revenge part of it,,,,hell yeah. If someone threatenned to kill my father and I was president and could smoke that person`s ass,,,,,,I would.
We got nothin`? We got rid of Saddam. So what if they didn`t find shit. At leastv now we have a presence over there and might not live through another 9/11.

Seadog

07-12-2003, 08:17 PM

I'll say this about AZDon, he makes Cat look good. He sounds like something out of The Manchurian Candidate. FYI, I have the stock losses to prove that Clinton started this recession. Look at the numbers. When Reagan took office, we were in a recession. It recovered under Reagan and Bush and was on the rise when Clinton took office.Two years after Clinton took office, there was a rash of regulations and appointments that led to the scandals and downturn. Wee Willie wasn't only sticking it to Monica. If you look at the democratic platform, it is not about doing something, it is about being negative about the Republicans. The richest groups of scumbags in the nation, lawyers, union leaders and others are pushing the democrats because they are all scum sucking leeches. Ask yourself, why does the democrats try so hard to entice the poor blacks and latinos? The demos are all for sucking the life out of the working stiffs.
How many middle class and above are Republican compared to democrat? How many lawyers, welfare recepients, thieves and junkies are Republican?
I disagree with a lot of the right wing agendas that the Republican party pushes, but at least tehy are doing something constructive.

AzDon

07-12-2003, 08:59 PM

The vice president conspired with the energy traders and then stood behind executive privelege to protect the transcripts. You'd know that if you read newspapers and don't suffer from selective amnesia! And to the idea of Bush being above derogatory slams: I guess you dont remember his campaign rant about "restoring dignity to the White House". Used against Clinton-Maybe. Against Gore-deplorable and without basis! And to his "I won I won I won" rant after the election that he didn't, He simply sounded like a spoiled brat that didn't get the toy he was promised! Fortunately for him, his extended family was able to replace the broken toy and he's gotten what he's wanted at our expense!

N:ck

07-12-2003, 09:21 PM

Ohmygod AzDon, you are a big m-fking penis. You're so stupid. George Bush is the best President ever I will always stand behind him. hes god. your so Stupid. You big fat penis liar. DAmn greg Davis is a moron idiot liberal m-fker stupid penis politician
[ July 12, 2003, 10:29 PM: Message edited by: N:ck ]

AzDon

07-12-2003, 09:24 PM

Highroller-
My kids can access live porn in the Bridgewater channel any weekend during the summer because local standards don't call it nudity as long as a gal is hiding a string up her ass!
[ July 12, 2003, 10:32 PM: Message edited by: AzDon ]

565edge

07-12-2003, 09:29 PM

AzDon:
:D :D eek! :mad: wink Your a complete dumbshit! devil

N:ck

07-12-2003, 09:31 PM

yeah you stupid piece of poop your so dumb michael moore is so dumb stupid dems

40oz'nHO's

07-12-2003, 09:38 PM

Dumb ****

TRIMDOG

07-12-2003, 09:39 PM

If the vast majority of this country's population were liberal athiest democrats, there's no way in hell anybody would be able to afford fast, expensive cats let alone the insurance.

sandblasted

07-12-2003, 09:46 PM

Got to love them democrats...A couple years ago they applauded themselves and said the people of California were in the vanguard of progressive politics when they elected democrats to complete control of the assembly, senate and the governors job...Now these same dumbass democrats are trying to blame republicans for the budget mess in Sacremento...How in the hell can the republicans be responsible for the budget mess when they have no control at all of state government...The entire $35 billion deficit is the result of democrat politics run amok...
**** them!

beer hunter

07-12-2003, 09:47 PM

miller19j:
Catmando:
The reason for this thread is highroller's thread. Y'all don't like it when the Liberal Atheist Democrat bites back? TOUGH SHIT. burningm I dont mind a debate at all. The problem is that you rarely have any facts or valid points. You seem to make thing up as you go. Quite frankly all you have proved with all your posts is that you are one of the most uneducated people on these boards and not worth debating with. Well said Miller19j :D This guy is a big buffoon argue

N:ck

07-12-2003, 10:00 PM

TRIMDOG:
If the vast majority of this country's population were liberal athiest democrats, there's no way in hell anybody would be able to afford fast, expensive cats let alone the insurance. I bet you have a BLINGIN' tow rig too? A hummer? No, not that kind, the four wheel drive truck kind. You probably don't get very many hummers 'cause informed young women are hip and liberal (they care about people and not business, perhaps?). Maybe you have a thing for rich old ladies though.
[ July 12, 2003, 11:02 PM: Message edited by: N:ck ]

N:ck

07-12-2003, 10:04 PM

N:ck:
TRIMDOG:
If the vast majority of this country's population were liberal athiest democrats, there's no way in hell anybody would be able to afford fast, expensive cats let alone the insurance. I bet you have a BLINGIN' tow rig too? A hummer? No, not that kind, the four wheel drive truck kind. You probably don't get very many hummers 'cause informed young women are hip and liberal (they care about people and not business, perhaps?). Maybe you have a thing for rich old ladies though. In all fairness, though, young ladies probably like your big boat though. Not you, just your boat.

TRIMDOG

07-12-2003, 10:16 PM

All I'm saying is that guys like this catman guy are big into expensive pastimes that wouldn't exist without this country the way it is. I tow with one of my work trucks, for the record.

TRIMDOG

07-12-2003, 10:43 PM

Plus for the record I don't own a big cat and know exactly what your saying about bought bitches on big ass boats so don't come at me. Ask the guy who started this thread what he tows with.

mickeyfinn

07-13-2003, 06:23 AM

I am most certainly not one of the top 5% paying 50% of the county's taxes. Neither do I have a big cat or a big tow rig. I have 2 vehicles that are 10 years old and an old 1974 Hondo that I am putting all my spare nickles and dimes into restoring. I do however understand a little about how the economy works and the fact that if we allowed the democrats to take control back right now the death spiral that everyone was predicting for the economy just a few months ago will be true. Democrat is just a fancy new name for socialist. Everyone equal no matter how much effort you put forth. The reason for the Democrats courting the black and hispanic vote should be obvious. They are attempting to enact more and more social programs which gives these people money for nothing(money out of our pockets, if you have a big tow rig and a big cat probably more of your money than mine) and essentially buy votes. As long as the folks at the top have whatever they want they could give a shit less about the rest of us. SO WISE UP ASSHOLES!!! REALIZE THAT IF YOU GIVE A CRAP ABOUT THIS COUNTRY OR WANT TO CONTINUE THE LIFESTYLE YOU HAVE NOW VOTE OUT ALL OF THE DEMOCRATS!!

MagicMtnDan

07-13-2003, 07:39 AM

mickeyfinn:
I am most certainly not one of the top 5% paying 50% of the county's taxes. Neither do I have a big cat or a big tow rig. I have 2 vehicles that are 10 years old and an old 1974 Hondo that I am putting all my spare nickles and dimes into restoring. I do however understand a little about how the economy works and the fact that if we allowed the democrats to take control back right now the death spiral that everyone was predicting for the economy just a few months ago will be true. Democrat is just a fancy new name for socialist. Everyone equal no matter how much effort you put forth. The reason for the Democrats courting the black and hispanic vote should be obvious. They are attempting to enact more and more social programs which gives these people money for nothing(money out of our pockets, if you have a big tow rig and a big cat probably more of your money than mine) and essentially buy votes. As long as the folks at the top have whatever they want they could give a shit less about the rest of us. SO WISE UP ASSHOLES!!! REALIZE THAT IF YOU GIVE A CRAP ABOUT THIS COUNTRY OR WANT TO CONTINUE THE LIFESTYLE YOU HAVE NOW VOTE OUT ALL OF THE DEMOCRATS!! Nicely said. I will add...
Democrats (especially Hillary Clinton) are for income distribution. That means TAKING YOUR MONEY AND DISTRIBUTING IT TO OTHERS WHO DON'T HAVE AS MUCH BECAUSE THEY DON'T WORK AS HARD.
Keep that in mind next time you go to the polls to vote. Vote Democrat = saying goodbye to your money.

exciter

07-13-2003, 08:09 AM

anti-union mentality,
THE SOLE REASON you White collar liberals along with the open shop(non-union)workers have anything IS BECAUSE of UNIONS!
People fought and DIED to get you ungrateful slobs HEATHCARE,OVERTIME PAY,THE 40 HOUR WORK WEEK,SAFETY ON JOBS,WORKMANS COMP,UNEMPLOYEMENT INSURANCE(in case you lazy self-rightous white collar slobs lose your jobs)A DECENT PAY SCALE,RIGHT TO KNOW(DO YOU THINK YOUR COMPANY WOULD TELL YOU ABOUT
M.E.K.,CARBON-TET,ASBESTOS,ECT????)!!!
As far as out living their usefulness,your President wants to get rid of overtime pay!!!!!
btw- the UNIONS MADE the government start OSHIT,I MEAN OSHA
[ July 13, 2003, 09:43 AM: Message edited by: exciter ]

AzDon

07-13-2003, 08:23 AM

We came out of eight years of prosperity and it only took the "selection" of this guy to frighten Wall street and American consumers into pulling back from their spending and investing habits. Everyone, including those soothing Wall street voices imploring us not to panic and run from the stock market, understands that the president secretly winks at corporate dishonesty, and nobody with any brains is willing to gamble their money in a rigged game! I recently bet my IRA funds against the president by locking in a kinda low 5 year rate because by that time savings interest may have become "storage fees". The problem with a lot of conservative minded people is that they were never sent out as kids to experience the humiliation of "market wages" for doing menial thing like digging ditches or pulling weeds. These people (Mr Bush is their poster boy!) have used social advantage from birth to acquire an allowance, education and finally a job that allows them the luxury of ignoring that a lot of hard working people never get a fair deal from life and ignoring that society has a responsibility to provide a civilized standard of living and retirement for everyone who has worked hard and played by the rules. Somewhere along the way these people have confused low pay with laziness and this simply isn't so! Your hard-working republican legislators are on a mission to help their corporate supporters hatch schemes to lower the wages of the peons who actually do the work that makes America go, so they can be more competitive and raise management wages. The trouble is that the US is by far the largest consumer of our own goods and squeezing the wages too tightly shrinks the market. If you think the overall move toward cheapness in products and wages is a good thing and if you like the bleak prognosis for your kids finding meaningful employment at a living wage, you should continue to vote for free traders (nafta-ites) and dereg supporters which are most vocally republican!
[ July 13, 2003, 09:31 AM: Message edited by: AzDon ]

exciter

07-13-2003, 08:40 AM

for the record:
both the dems and the reps are all f#$%ed up
none of them knows what it is like to work for a living.
the founding fathers never said that the pres or congress was a paying gig!!
when this country started it was a non-paying job they wanted to do to help the COUNTRY!!
TAKE AWAY THE PAY AND SEE HOW MANY OF THE CROOKS BAIL!!!

mickeyfinn

07-13-2003, 08:43 AM

exciter:
anti-union mentality,
THE SOLE REASON you White collar liberals along with the open shop(non-union)workers have anything IS BECAUSE of UNIONS!
People fought and DIED to get you ungrateful slobs HEATHCARE,OVERTIME PAY,THE 40 HOUR WORK WEEK,SAFETY ON JOBS,WORKMANS COMP,UNEMPLOYEMENT INSURANCE(in case you lazy self-rightous slobs lose your jobs)A DECENT PAY SCALE,RIGHT TO KNOW(DO YOU THINK YOUR COMPANY WOULD TELL YOU ABOUT
M.E.K.,CARBON-TET,ASBESTOS,ECT????)!!!
As far as out living their usefulness,your President wants to get rid of overtime pay!!!!! No one here ever said that unions did not have a place and time. Only that they have outlived their usefulness. Unions now are about maintaining a higher than needed wage costing the public many dollars for a product that is sometimes substandard. Unions now exist only to promote themselves, they are not protecting the workers. As for the federal government wanting to stop overtime pay, if the market will allow it why not? If people can't live without the overtime pay then they will begin to look for better paying jobs which they can afford to live on. If they have problems filling positions that people can't afford to live on they will have no choice but to increase the wage in order to fill these positions. BTW no one is eliminating overtime pay. Only the Government requirement that it be paid. I know of several companies that have people in positions which legally don't have to be paid overtime but do so anyway in order to attract and keep good employees. Somewhere along the line people need to remember that capitalism is based on supply and demand.

THOR

07-13-2003, 09:17 AM

HighRoller:
Thor,let me tell you a little union story about casino employees.A female friend of mine was working part-time at a casino while going to school in Vegas.Well,the food and beverage employees went on strike at her casino,luckily she wasn't a union employee.So she goes to work and encounters all these people in the parking lot telling her she can't go to work.She tries to explain that she works as a concierge not F&B but they don't care.They said if they are on strike everyone is.She ended up having to call security to escort her into the building every day for a week and had to have a friend drop her off because they threatened to slash her tires and break her windows while she was at work. Was that the Frontier fiasco?

THOR

07-13-2003, 09:21 AM

AzDon:
The economy was declining before the election? That is a complete and total lie! I suppose that the economy was recovering before Clinton took office? (another lie!!) I guess it also doesn't bother you that the Bush administration conspired with Enron to F__k California's residents and then did nothing to fix it when it happened. I suppose you'll also deny that Haliburton got exclusive restoration contracts for Iraq oil fields before the war was even fought! I am pissed that this counterfeit president has squandered my social security. You Bush supporters are in total denial about the damage this administration is doing to the country. The economy was f*&^ed up from Clinton. Bush inhereted his screw ups. High Roller said it well with his point. You my friend are just a radical.

NorCal Gameshow

07-13-2003, 09:25 AM

AzDon:
We came out of eight years of prosperity and it only took the "selection" of this guy to frighten Wall street and American consumers into pulling back from their spending and investing habits. You're leaving out what drove the economy those eight years high-tech items such as computers and cell phones.that market is saturated....
Don't forget about the legal pyramid games know as internet start-ups :rolleyes:
IT departments every company thought they had to have....
Feel free to add some more examples...

THOR

07-13-2003, 09:25 AM

AzDon

07-13-2003, 09:35 AM

This supply and demand thing always comes up regarding wages and working conditions. The priveleged class may sometimes be able to demand the desired wage, but the blue-collar folks that perform the actual tasks have never been afforded this luxury and that is why unions became necessary. During the eighties, unions and government work rules were efficiently slammed to the point that big companies could no longer reduce the size or wages of their workforce and still produce anything, so this cancer has started upwards. THE FACT IS THAT EMPLOYERS SETS THE WAGES FOR MORE OF THEIR POSITIONS ALL THE TIME AND THE NEWEST STARTING WAGES FOR YOUR JOB ARE PROBABLY MUCH LOWER THAN YOU STARTED AT!
This is the "sweet spot" that your republican legislators are trying to expand.
Social Security, Medicare, disability, osha,fdic,unemployment insurance, unions, workplace standards, wage laws,overtime, and access to the legal system are all things that democrats fight hard to protect and republicans fight hard to destroy. So I guess I hafta ask: Do you care more about the prosperity of big business or more about the prosperity of people?
P.S. I have 2 kids that are both at the top of their classes in school....I am convinced that they will rule their world with compassion for people because they've been taught to care!
[ July 13, 2003, 10:46 AM: Message edited by: AzDon ]

jus a baker

07-13-2003, 09:55 AM

AzDon:
The problem with a lot of conservative minded people is that they were never sent out as kids to experience the humiliation of "market wages" for doing menial thing like digging ditches or pulling weeds. These people (Mr Bush is their poster boy!) have used social advantage from birth to acquire an allowance, education and finally a job that allows them the luxury of ignoring that a lot of hard working people never get a fair deal from life and ignoring that society has a responsibility to provide a civilized standard of living and retirement for everyone who has worked hard and played by the rules. Somewhere along the way these people have confused low pay with laziness and this simply isn't so! Your hard-working republican legislators are on a mission to help their corporate supporters hatch schemes to lower the wages of the peons who actually do the work that makes America go, so they can be more competitive and raise management wages. comming from my conservative point of veiw, not in my case or anyone else i know. i worked my ass off my whole life just like the rest of my family, now after over 25 yrs of it i see my parents finally getting something back, and soon i will to. and why the hell do people think society owes them something? that is just bullshit. everyone i knew and grew up with had the same oppertunities as me going to school, so why should i have to pay for thier free ride if they decide to be lazy and not make something of themselves? This craddle to grave coverage from the democrats is just another way to buy votes, they have been promising the same bullshit of providing every need to society for over forty years, and they never deliver (thank god) but dumb asses keep voting for them. mabey some people should wake up and help them damn self. burningm

jus a baker

07-13-2003, 10:02 AM

[/qb][/QUOTE]The economy was f*&^ed up from Clinton. Bush inhereted his screw ups. High Roller said it well with his point. You my friend are just a radical. [/QB][/QUOTE]
:D :D :D
and clinton was riding the wave of those before him. thats the bad thing, the current administration gets credit (or blame) for policies made from the previous adm. it takes time for ideas to take effect,

dcb carrera

07-13-2003, 10:09 AM

[ P.S. I have 2 kids that are both at the top of their classes in school....I am convinced that they will rule their world with compassion for people because they've been taught to care! ]
I was going to stay out of this one but this is about the dumbest thing I have heard in a long time. I have to admit it is kind of funny stupid but funny :rolleyes:

N:ck

07-13-2003, 10:10 AM

First, to compare a democrat to a socialist is not only unfair, but an obvious sign of your ignorance. Socialism is a system in which the government plans and controls the economy (i.e. it owns the means of producing and distributing goods and services). A democrat is a supporter of the rights and power of the people (i.e. not big business). A true democrat is by no means against the free market.
Second, people are not lazy just because they aren't able to make money. The average income in this country is somewhere around $30k per year for a family of four. Does that sound like an amount of money you can live on? Don't think so. And that's not even the median; it's the average. It's ridiculous to call people lazy just because they're not some (overpaid) fat hog who wears a suit to work.
Third, you people are delusional. I suppose the Florida fiasco was Bill Clinton's fault, too? I mean, after all, he didn't fly around the country on Air Force One and check all the voting systems. Which reminds me... "Hey Dick, are they after me?!?" (Ya know...that $100 picture of George W. Bush cowering in his seat in Air Force One talking on his cell phone? How heroic is that?)
[ July 13, 2003, 11:15 AM: Message edited by: N:ck ]

N:ck

07-13-2003, 10:18 AM

dcb/carrera:
I was going to stay out of this one but this is about the dumbest thing I have heard in a long time. I have to admit it is kind of funny stupid but funny :rolleyes: Funny stupid? This almost sounds like name-calling, but I'm not sure what it is... Please clarify?

TRIMDOG

07-13-2003, 12:10 PM

Running a country in an ultra conservative way wouldn't be any fun, but go ultra liberal and you'd get overthrown within 125 years for sure. Politically, FDR's white house came up with tons of "programs" which helped tons of people, but if Bill and Hillary, or Sean Penn, or Babs, or some other fruit had been running the show in the 40's nobody under 60 would ever have been born at all. I have little respect for career politicians in any party.

AzDon

07-13-2003, 02:50 PM

AzDon:
Social Security, Medicare, disability, osha,fdic,unemployment insurance, unions, workplace standards, wage laws,overtime, and access to the legal system are all things that democrats fight hard to protect and republicans fight hard to destroy. So I guess I hafta ask: Do you care more about the prosperity of big business or more about the prosperity of people?
Funny-
I don't see anybody stepping up to answer this question!

riverliver

07-13-2003, 02:57 PM

The prosperity of big business !!!!!!
That would be my pick.

TRIMDOG

07-13-2003, 03:37 PM

OSHA makes all or most of its supporting revenue from ridiculous fines levied on hard workers who keep others employed. Those guys operate like a gestapo. Theyr'e FU##ED.

Seadog

07-13-2003, 03:59 PM

AzDon, nobody responded because it is such a ****ing joke, it is not worthy or response. The democratic party of 1940 has been hijacked by the elistist liberals. I come from a long line of democrats, but have not voted for them since I met McGovern during his run for prez and realised what a prick he was.
Unions have always been about violence to get control. Remember the Molly McGuires? This is no longer acceptable. Most places work better when management and labor work as a team. The whole premise of unions is protagonistic assaults on the companies.
The democrats do not want to give power to the people, they want to use the government to create a society of their own perverted mindset. They have actually been responsible for a social enslavement of the poor by reducing them to a system that does not reward self reliance or family values.
For all the Republican faults, they listen to what the public wants. I get so tired of the ignorant idiots who have no concept of how the economy works, telling how much good the dumocrats do and how bad teh Republicans are. The only reason that the economy did not start recovering was due to 9/11 related events. Which for the most part can be attributed to wee willie's total failure to do anything about terrorists. His legacy is a nation left ripe for attack and making it easier for them to recruit members.

THOR

07-13-2003, 05:57 PM

AzDon:
AzDon:
Social Security, Medicare, disability, osha,fdic,unemployment insurance, unions, workplace standards, wage laws,overtime, and access to the legal system are all things that democrats fight hard to protect and republicans fight hard to destroy. So I guess I hafta ask: Do you care more about the prosperity of big business or more about the prosperity of people?
Funny-
I don't see anybody stepping up to answer this question! That is a biased question that has is an incomplete hypothetical. Who do you work for or what do you do? That may shed some light on why you dangling way off of the wing.

THOR

07-13-2003, 05:58 PM

Whoops, scratch out 'has'.

dcb carrera

07-13-2003, 06:42 PM

Funny stupid? This almost sounds like name-calling, but I'm not sure what it is... Please clarify?
I wasn't calling anybody names all am saying is the meek aren't going to inherited the earth any time soon. I think you should teach your kids to care for other people but only to a point, over caring can bite you in the butt. I think alot of these peoples bad luck is self inflicted. I know it's hard for liberals to believe but alot of people are lazy and not worth helping. Give my taxes to the working poor. I do pay my share of taxes.

TRIMDOG

07-13-2003, 09:58 PM

I think most people would agree that the term "liberal" applies to at the very least two areas.
1. Being liberal, or fairly free and easy/openminded SOCIALLY- "fun, hip, informed" etc. MUCH OF WHICH IS VERY COOL
2. Politically- ie.- Cramming agendas like affirmative action, the tobacco control programs, the EDD training programs, etc. that we all pay through the nose for.
Most of the people I hang with, (not all cause believe me there's bleeding hearts everywhere), don't share the same political views as Jane Fonda.
One question: Honestly, Ignoring anything Bush has or hasn't done this term, are there REALLY people out there who think Al Gore would do a kick ass job of anything?
P.S. I ain't down with Mcgovern either, but supposedly he was a kick ass b-24 pilot

HighRoller

07-14-2003, 03:53 AM

This is the "sweet spot" that your republican legislators are trying to expand.
Social Security, Medicare, disability, osha,fdic,unemployment insurance, unions, workplace standards, wage laws,overtime, and access to the legal system are all things that democrats fight hard to protect and republicans fight hard to destroy Funny.Republicans want to"destroy"these things eh?The Democrats want you to believe that Republicans want to starve your children and kick your grandma out onto the street.So why don't we expand everything you talked about?Everybody gets retirement paid for in full,can never earn less than they do right now regardless of whether they work or not,and have housing/food,medical care paid for.In addition it will be illegal for any company to make more than 10% profit and if they do it will be confiscated and given to the workers.Those damn dirty greedy corporations,we'll show them!!!

MagicMtnDan

07-14-2003, 05:59 AM

AzDon:
We came out of eight years of prosperity and it only took the "selection" of this guy to frighten Wall street and American consumers into pulling back from their spending and investing habits. Everyone, including those soothing Wall street voices imploring us not to panic and run from the stock market, understands that the president secretly winks at corporate dishonesty, and nobody with any brains is willing to gamble their money in a rigged game! I recently bet my IRA funds against the president by locking in a kinda low 5 year rate because by that time savings interest may have become "storage fees". The problem with a lot of conservative minded people is that they were never sent out as kids to experience the humiliation of "market wages" for doing menial thing like digging ditches or pulling weeds. These people (Mr Bush is their poster boy!) have used social advantage from birth to acquire an allowance, education and finally a job that allows them the luxury of ignoring that a lot of hard working people never get a fair deal from life and ignoring that society has a responsibility to provide a civilized standard of living and retirement for everyone who has worked hard and played by the rules. Somewhere along the way these people have confused low pay with laziness and this simply isn't so! Your hard-working republican legislators are on a mission to help their corporate supporters hatch schemes to lower the wages of the peons who actually do the work that makes America go, so they can be more competitive and raise management wages. The trouble is that the US is by far the largest consumer of our own goods and squeezing the wages too tightly shrinks the market. If you think the overall move toward cheapness in products and wages is a good thing and if you like the bleak prognosis for your kids finding meaningful employment at a living wage, you should continue to vote for free traders (nafta-ites) and dereg supporters which are most vocally republican! Gimme a break dude! I'm sure you're angry with the President but to blame him for the economy now is like giving Clinton credit for the economy then (which is what most Dems and liberals do).
ONE GUY CANNOT, not even the President, turn the economy upside down or rightside up. Of course policies and laws can be initiated to help and/or hurt the economy but you're in dreamland if you think Clinton made the boom of the 90s or Bush is responsible for the economy's downturn.
There are a LOT of factors in a country's (and the world's) economy. And there are cycles involved as well. Did you really think that after years of growing boom that the economy wasn't going to bust? If you did, I'd like to talk to you about buying your house for what it was worth 10 years ago.
Y'all gotta get off this "bash Bush cuz he's a Republican" and "praise Clinton cuz he's a Democrat." We all live in this country together and need to get involved and tell our legislators (Dems and Repubs) what we need and want.
But we need to stop kidding ourselves about the economy by praising Clinton for the boom and blaming Bush for the bust.

MagicMtnDan

07-14-2003, 06:19 AM

AzDon:
This supply and demand thing always comes up regarding wages and working conditions. The priveleged class may sometimes be able to demand the desired wage, but the blue-collar folks that perform the actual tasks have never been afforded this luxury and that is why unions became necessary. During the eighties, unions and government work rules were efficiently slammed to the point that big companies could no longer reduce the size or wages of their workforce and still produce anything, so this cancer has started upwards. THE FACT IS THAT EMPLOYERS SETS THE WAGES FOR MORE OF THEIR POSITIONS ALL THE TIME AND THE NEWEST STARTING WAGES FOR YOUR JOB ARE PROBABLY MUCH LOWER THAN YOU STARTED AT!
This is the "sweet spot" that your republican legislators are trying to expand.
Social Security, Medicare, disability, osha,fdic,unemployment insurance, unions, workplace standards, wage laws,overtime, and access to the legal system are all things that democrats fight hard to protect and republicans fight hard to destroy. So I guess I hafta ask: Do you care more about the prosperity of big business or more about the prosperity of people?
P.S. I have 2 kids that are both at the top of their classes in school....I am convinced that they will rule their world with compassion for people because they've been taught to care! There's so much to take on here and so little time...
So I guess I hafta ask: Do you care more about the prosperity of big business or more about the prosperity of people?This is "code" for Democrats. Typical BS trying to boil things down to choosing between "big business" or "people."
Here's a clue: big business (NOT unions) and their success is what has driven this country's success since day one. The Japanese are still trying to LEARN how to innovate and they're trying to LEARN how to become entrepreneurs. It's a cultural thing and it one of the reasons this country is the best. Because of business' success and the millions of start-ups over the years that this country can have unions (for you union lovers) and people earn wages that enable folks to buy expensive boats, trucks, cars and houses.
People prosper because businesses prosper. And you socialist Democrats who think otherwise should move to China - oops, sorry, China has discovered the value of capitalism and is busy trying to make capitalism work in a communist country.
[ July 14, 2003, 07:27 AM: Message edited by: MagicMtnDan ]

MagicMtnDan

07-14-2003, 06:25 AM

AzDon:
I have 2 kids that are both at the top of their classes in school....I am convinced that they will rule their world with compassion for people because they've been taught to care! Congratulations on having 2 kids who are both at the top of their classes in school.
But, in my opinion, IF they "rule their world" it WON'T be because they've been taught to care. It WILL be because they were "at the top of their classes in school."
Unfortunately, compassion typically doesn't get anyone a job or help anyone get ahead in a competitive society. It's hard work, motivation, common sense and brilliance (which can come from being at the top of their classes in school). Compassion is a great virtue but it's not one that most world leaders exhibit.

Catmando

07-14-2003, 07:44 AM

Trash:
wearing a military uniform, which no President has EVER done What would you have proposed he wore? The flight suit is a required piece of equipment when flying in Navy aircraft. It is a critical element of safety gear. Oh and he left his crotch straps hooked up, which the REAL pilots knew better than to do. Made him walk like a duck with a corncob up his ass. President C-minus can't fly a PAPER airplane, much less a real one.
Karl Rove, the REAL president, set that photo op up. He had the Lincoln turn around so San Diego wouldn't be seen in the film footage. AWOL Bush is just a puppet.

MagicMtnDan

07-14-2003, 07:55 AM

Originally posted by Catmando:
Oh and he left his crotch straps hooked up, which the REAL pilots knew better than to do. Made him walk like a duck with a corncob up his ass. President C-minus can't fly a PAPER airplane, much less a real one.
Karl Rove, the REAL president, set that photo op up. He had the Lincoln turn around so San Diego wouldn't be seen in the film footage. AWOL Bush is just a puppet. Ya know I hate name calling on the Internet and boards. It's so easy to hide behind the anonymity of a computer and the Web but in your case Catmando, I'll make an execption especially since you dont' hesitate to call our President names.
You're an ignorant, one-track, broken-record, ultra-liberal, Democrat with an IQ no higher than your below the belt remarks. You're pond-scum and I regret ever trying to discuss issues with you. I don't want to wish you any harm but I wouldn't shed a tear if your momma locked your lousy ass in a car parked in the desert in July.

MagicMtnDan

07-14-2003, 07:56 AM

I didn't do this double post - not this time
[ July 14, 2003, 10:42 AM: Message edited by: MagicMtnDan ]

Havasu_Dreamin

07-14-2003, 08:06 AM

AzDon:
I am pissed that this counterfeit president has squandered my social security.Get a clue! Social Security has been squandred for years! If you're counting on that for retirement, #1 you're crazy for thinking the government should take care of you in retirement for perpetuity, and #2 you have not been paying too much attention to the what has been going on with the SSA for many, many years. But, seeing as I believe you are a truck drive, if my memory is right, then you most likely belong to the teamsters so you will have some sort of retirement from them, which is good for you. But to claim that this administration has squandered your social security, you're absolutely crazy! It has been going on for years, even by your buddy Clinton!
Social Security is a very good idea, one that can benefit every person that works and pays itno the system. However, it is a flawed system. It was never intended for people to retire and live off of their social security payments for 15, 20, 25, sometimes even 30 years. Also, it was never intended as a financial resource for those that have not paid one cent into the system. There are so many people that collect social security that have contributed $0 it's a joke!

eliminatedsprinter

07-14-2003, 09:41 AM

Cat
I've got to hand it to you. You sure know how to piss off freedom loving people. argue
Just keep parroting those Democratic talking points and stay away from the Cool-Aid. :p

Seadog

07-14-2003, 09:49 AM

Social security was designed to provide a percentage of the money that people needed for retirement. In the 60's the democrats raided the built up funds to pay for 'social' programs.
The main faults with the program is that they failed to recognize that should be tied to the mortality age. We have people retiring at the equivalent of age of 50 when the program started. We also have children being supported by social security thru college when family services like that should have a separate funding.

THOR

07-14-2003, 09:58 AM

Catmando:
Trash:
wearing a military uniform, which no President has EVER done What would you have proposed he wore? The flight suit is a required piece of equipment when flying in Navy aircraft. It is a critical element of safety gear. Oh and he left his crotch straps hooked up, which the REAL pilots knew better than to do. Made him walk like a duck with a corncob up his ass. President C-minus can't fly a PAPER airplane, much less a real one.
Karl Rove, the REAL president, set that photo op up. He had the Lincoln turn around so San Diego wouldn't be seen in the film footage. AWOL Bush is just a puppet. http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/42democracry.jpg

ROZ

07-14-2003, 10:52 AM

Catmando:
AWOL Bush is just a puppet. I laugh histerically every time you write this...
I think it was Clinton who was not inhaling in Russia during the Vietnam Policing,,errrr War..

THOR

07-14-2003, 10:59 AM

ROZ:
Catmando:
AWOL Bush is just a puppet. I laugh histerically every time you write this...
I think it was Clinton who was not inhaling in Russia during the Vietnam Policing,,errrr War.. Puppet huh? Who exactly wears the pants in the Clinton family?

ROZ

07-14-2003, 11:19 AM

THOR:
AzDon:
AzDon:
Social Security, Medicare, disability, osha,fdic,unemployment insurance, unions, workplace standards, wage laws,overtime, and access to the legal system are all things that democrats fight hard to protect and republicans fight hard to destroy. So I guess I hafta ask: Do you care more about the prosperity of big business or more about the prosperity of people?
Funny-
I don't see anybody stepping up to answer this question! That is a biased question that has is an incomplete hypothetical. Who do you work for or what do you do? That may shed some light on why you dangling way off of the wing. Prosperity of the people depends n the prosperity of the rich, or atleast of the rich that provide employment to the people....
I think it's funny that he thinks the dem's are protecting these agencies.... It all goes back to soft contribution money..... Unions prove that by bullying their members into voting Dem.....
My father was a local polititian. Going to some of the bigger events, I noticed something in common with BOTH parties.... You give me money, I'll try to remember who you are....
Regarding Social Security....My grandfather to my father to invest his money because my grandfather thought the agency would never last. Heck, I remember calling out tickers to my grandpa when I was in gradeschool... "hawkeye" ROZ

AzDon

07-14-2003, 11:31 AM

And about this tax cut going disproportionately to the wealthy: Is it fair? ABSOLUTELY! Will it help the economy? Probably not!
The administration's assertion that this tax cut will be spent back into the economy is based on a failed Reagan era concept called "supply side" or "trickle down" economics.
The scheme goes like this: The rich guy/ corporation is going to "trickle down" the money by hiring and increasing production or otherwise expand his payroll, simply because he has recieved this tax cut......AND IN TOTAL DISREGARD OF SOFT DEMAND FOR WHAT HIS COMPANY PRODUCES!
What really happens is that the mid-level "rich guy" entity pockets the money or "trickles it down" by buyin himself personal luxuries, such as fancy cars, vacation houses, and boats.This MIGHT work as an economic stimulus except that the mid-level tax return recipient represents a very small percentage of the overall tax cut dollars with most of them going to billionaires who haven't really got unmet spending needs. The folks at the bottom who would spend, spend, spend aren't able to help the economy much because their taxcut is small.
The budget left by Clinton was responsible and was the last hope for restoring the solvency of the Social Security trust fund before the "baby boom" generation starts asking for our stored funds(SSI) Mr. Bush's taxcuts have essentially been a giveaway of future tax funds whose amounts were based on Clinton era prosperity. This is partially how a balanced budget became a 6-trillion dollar deficit ( balanced budget and deficit are terms that apply to the current calendar year, so the situation is WAY worse!)
I would have much preferred having the accumulated deficit(which is mostly IOU's to SSI) paid down than to have Mr Bush borrow against future revenues so he can give people like his oil cronies and Bill Gates large taxcuts and put more IOU's in the SSI trustfund while doing so. This is irresponsible economics run amok and I believe it is not out of line to blame the stock market's failure on the paranoia and pessimism that has been developed and fueled by this guy's presidency!
Another thought: Bush senior was seen as wimpy by the muslim world for not finishing off Saddam in '91 and juniors are seen as less than the father by most societies! It's entirely possible that blaming Sept 11 on the last presidential election would not be that far-fetched!

AzDon

07-14-2003, 11:43 AM

Prosperity of the people depends n the prosperity of the rich, or atleast of the rich that provide employment to the people....[/qb]WRONG!... The prosperity of the rich is based on their to hire and inspire people willing to be exploited for (often) far too little pay. It is also based on the marketability of the goods and services produced!
Keeping a large percentage of the population poor hurts demand for goods and servies, especially those that are discretionary!

058

07-14-2003, 11:59 AM

Bush, Wimpy?? Gimme a break. Lets look at Clinton's record: 1993 WTC bombing: no action taken, 1995 Saudi Arabia bombing: no action taken, 1996 Kobar Towers bombing: no action taken, 1998 African Embassys bombing: no action taken, 2000 USS Cole bombing: no action taken, What message does that send to Al Queta? Bush sr. was not allowed to proceed to Baghdad in '91 because the coalition would NOT allow it based on agreements made with the other Mid. East countrys to allow our presence on Islamic soil. The agreement only provided action to drive Saddam out of Kuiwait, anything more would have been interpeted as an act of agression on a Islamic country at that time. Clinton [who 'loathed' the military] didn't think twice to get us involve in Bosina, something nobody else would [UN & NATO] as this feud has been going on for over 800 years and involved us because he was trying to create his "legasy" as a peace maker and setting himself up for a Nobel Peace Prize....and he was the king of photo opts. He never missed a chance to mug for the camera. Clinton was an embarrasment to the office of president.

N:ck

07-14-2003, 12:13 PM

Chew on this...
http://vdrive.hypermart.net/boomer.jpg

058

07-14-2003, 12:13 PM

Heres an interesting question. On one hand we have a man that developed relatively cheap software and gives billions of dollars away to charity and on the other hand we have a man that sponsers terrorism but the Clinton admimistration spends more money chasing down Bill Gates over the 8 years in office than was spent on Osama bin Laden....why? Could it be that the Clinton admis. thinks less of hard work, innovation and wealth than the terror and fear of the common folk. He truly is a man of the people. Just wondering, why did so many people so close to the Clintons die? At last count it was 35-40 people who kinda just up and died. Just wondering..... wink

058

07-14-2003, 12:18 PM

Nick...you don't have a retirement yet. So how can GWB steal your retirement....come back and talk about it in say...35 or 40 years. idea

N:ck

07-14-2003, 12:18 PM

058:
Bush, Wimpy?? Gimme a break. Lets look at Clinton's record: 1993 WTC bombing: no action taken, 1995 Saudi Arabia bombing: no action taken, 1996 Kobar Towers bombing: no action taken, 1998 African Embassys bombing: no action taken, 2000 USS Cole bombing: no action taken, What message does that send to Al Queta? Bush sr. was not allowed to proceed to Baghdad in '91 because the coalition would NOT allow it based on agreements made with the other Mid. East countrys to allow our presence on Islamic soil. The agreement only provided action to drive Saddam out of Kuiwait, anything more would have been interpeted as an act of agression on a Islamic country at that time. Clinton [who 'loathed' the military] didn't think twice to get us involve in Bosina, something nobody else would [UN & NATO] as this feud has been going on for over 800 years and involved us because he was trying to create his "legasy" as a peace maker and setting himself up for a Nobel Peace Prize....and he was the king of photo opts. He never missed a chance to mug for the camera. Clinton was an embarrasment to the office of president. No action taken? Bob, we respect you very much, but just because Clinton didn't thump his chest for three months before taking action doesn't mean he didn't take action. You should have watched the news a little more closely.

N:ck

07-14-2003, 12:21 PM

In my memory, Clinton's first news conferences after these terrorist attacks were to say, "We have successfully carried out air strikes against _______."
As for the retirement bit, my dad put me up to that, but I'm sure that I'm screwed now too.
[ July 14, 2003, 01:22 PM: Message edited by: N:ck ]

058

07-14-2003, 12:23 PM

This truly is a great country...where else can Hillary get $8 million up front for her memoirs and Bill gets about $12 million for his memoirs yet to be written and all this from two people who spent the last 8 years unable to recall anything about past events while under oath. ONLY IN AMERICA

AzDon

07-14-2003, 12:24 PM

Bob!
Finally, something worthwhile to talk about, eh?

N:ck

07-14-2003, 12:31 PM

058:
This truly is a great country...where else can Hillary get $8 million up front for her memoirs and Bill gets about $12 million for his memoirs yet to be written and all this from two people who spent the last 8 years unable to recall anything about past events while under oath. ONLY IN AMERICA I fail to see how having sex or writing books makes either Bill or Hillary a bad person. Granted, the perjury was wrong... However, I am inclined to believe it was a Republican trap because Monica came onto Bill, and, come on, what kind of young woman would do that on her own initiative? The guy's like, 50. :D
[ July 14, 2003, 01:34 PM: Message edited by: N:ck ]

rrrr

07-14-2003, 12:32 PM

N:ck:
058:
Bush, Wimpy?? Gimme a break. Lets look at Clinton's record: 1993 WTC bombing: no action taken, 1995 Saudi Arabia bombing: no action taken, 1996 Kobar Towers bombing: no action taken, 1998 African Embassys bombing: no action taken, 2000 USS Cole bombing: no action taken, What message does that send to Al Queta? Bush sr. was not allowed to proceed to Baghdad in '91 because the coalition would NOT allow it based on agreements made with the other Mid. East countrys to allow our presence on Islamic soil. The agreement only provided action to drive Saddam out of Kuiwait, anything more would have been interpeted as an act of agression on a Islamic country at that time. Clinton [who 'loathed' the military] didn't think twice to get us involve in Bosina, something nobody else would [UN & NATO] as this feud has been going on for over 800 years and involved us because he was trying to create his "legasy" as a peace maker and setting himself up for a Nobel Peace Prize....and he was the king of photo opts. He never missed a chance to mug for the camera. Clinton was an embarrasment to the office of president. No action taken? Bob, we respect you very much, but just because Clinton didn't thump his chest for three months before taking action doesn't mean he didn't take action. You should have watched the news a little more closely. Yeah Bob, remember he bombed an aspirin factory on the eve of his appearance before the grand jury. Shot a couple of cruise missiles into Afghanistan too. The man had it goin' ON!!
We just don't know shit. :D :D

058

07-14-2003, 12:32 PM

N:ck:
In my memory, Clinton's first news conferences after these terrorist attacks were to say, "We have successfully carried out air strikes against _______."
As for the retirement bit, my dad put me up to that, but I'm sure that I'm screwed now too. Nick, I was trying to stay out of this fray but frustration overcame me. I also have a great respect for you and your dad but I just couldn't leave well enough alone. I don't like to argue politics with friends and with that said I will get off my soapbox and sit back on the sidelines, I hope you do too. As for your retirement I sincerly hope you rely on yourself to provide rather than the government or some company you may work for and thats not a political statement.

mlitefan

07-14-2003, 12:34 PM

The hypocrisy of the left on this thread is so typical.

058

07-14-2003, 12:36 PM

AzDon:
Bob!
Finally, something worthwhile to talk about, eh? Don....I'd much rather talk about boats than politics but unfortunatly I haven't been doing much boating to talk about cry

THOR

07-14-2003, 12:36 PM

N:ck:
058:
This truly is a great country...where else can Hillary get $8 million up front for her memoirs and Bill gets about $12 million for his memoirs yet to be written and all this from two people who spent the last 8 years unable to recall anything about past events while under oath. ONLY IN AMERICA I fail to see how having sex or writing books makes either Bill or Hillary a bad person. Granted, the perjury was wrong... However, I am inclined to believe it was a Republican trap because Monica came onto Bill, and, come on, what kind of young woman would do that on her own initiative? The guy's like, 50. :D Ahhh,
Finally, Bill having sex then lying about it shows his integrity and honesty. That was a test of character and he FAILED badly. Nobody needs a dishonest boss, let alone a dishonest president.

mlitefan

07-14-2003, 12:38 PM

You see Thor, they MUST defend Clinton to the bitter end. They can't admit that they were hoodwinked by the most corrupt administration this country has ever seen now, can they?
All I see are a few desperate liberals trying to defend the indefensible. A real treat to watch really.

N:ck

07-14-2003, 12:45 PM

mlitefan:
All I see are a few desperate liberals trying to defend the indefensible. A real treat to watch really. It's your position that's indefensible, it seems. After all, I have yet to hear a valid argument from you people. Leads me to believe that Republicans are as delusional as they are belligerent. I guess every truth can be twisted though, and I must commend you all on your creativity.
[ July 14, 2003, 01:48 PM: Message edited by: N:ck ]

AzDon

07-14-2003, 12:47 PM

Mr Bush has not made a blatantly honest statement to a television camera--EVER!!!
Every word he has ever uttered to a camera has been carefully crafted to decieve or stretch the truth. As Jim Carrey said in "Liar! Liar!", "everybody lies, some (Bush) more than others" (Clinton)
[ July 14, 2003, 01:47 PM: Message edited by: AzDon ]

mlitefan

07-14-2003, 12:47 PM

AzDon:
We came out of eight years of prosperity and it only took the "selection" of this guy to frighten Wall street and American consumers into pulling back from their spending and investing habits. Everyone, including those soothing Wall street voices imploring us not to panic and run from the stock market, understands that the president secretly winks at corporate dishonesty, and nobody with any brains is willing to gamble their money in a rigged game! I recently bet my IRA funds against the president by locking in a kinda low 5 year rate because by that time savings interest may have become "storage fees". The problem with a lot of conservative minded people is that they were never sent out as kids to experience the humiliation of "market wages" for doing menial thing like digging ditches or pulling weeds. These people (Mr Bush is their poster boy!) have used social advantage from birth to acquire an allowance, education and finally a job that allows them the luxury of ignoring that a lot of hard working people never get a fair deal from life and ignoring that society has a responsibility to provide a civilized standard of living and retirement for everyone who has worked hard and played by the rules. Somewhere along the way these people have confused low pay with laziness and this simply isn't so! Your hard-working republican legislators are on a mission to help their corporate supporters hatch schemes to lower the wages of the peons who actually do the work that makes America go, so they can be more competitive and raise management wages. The trouble is that the US is by far the largest consumer of our own goods and squeezing the wages too tightly shrinks the market. If you think the overall move toward cheapness in products and wages is a good thing and if you like the bleak prognosis for your kids finding meaningful employment at a living wage, you should continue to vote for free traders (nafta-ites) and dereg supporters which are most vocally republican! What an absolute ignorant, pathetic, unrealistic, stick your head in the sand load of bull$hit.
We are just now starting to come out of the crash Clinton left us with his house of cards false economy. Everyone knows the economy was failing before Bush took office. The only pathetic attempt you liberals can try to make is that he "talked it down"
You are full of crap and devoid of facts or ideas.
What do you do for a living AzDon?

THOR

07-14-2003, 12:48 PM

N:ck:
mlitefan:
All I see are a few desperate liberals trying to defend the indefensible. A real treat to watch really. It's your position that's indefensible, it seems... After all, I have yet to hear a valid argument... Leads me to believe that Republicans are as delusional as they are belligerent. I guess every truth can be twisted though, and I must commend you all on your creativity. So, let me get this straight. If you caught your wife giving some guy a hummer in the office and she said she didnt have any sexual relations, would you believe her?
Defend that.

mlitefan

07-14-2003, 12:50 PM

mlitefan

07-14-2003, 12:51 PM

N:ck:
mlitefan:
All I see are a few desperate liberals trying to defend the indefensible. A real treat to watch really. It's your position that's indefensible, it seems. After all, I have yet to hear a valid argument from you people. Leads me to believe that Republicans are as delusional as they are belligerent. I guess every truth can be twisted though, and I must commend you all on your creativity. Well N:ck...Show me on fact you have posted on this thread...

N:ck

07-14-2003, 12:51 PM

mlitefan:
What an absolute ignorant, pathetic, unrealistic, stick your head in the sand load of bull$hit.You sound so...intelligent!
mlitefan:
We are just now starting to come out of the crash Clinton left us with his house of cards false economy. Everyone knows the economy was failing before Bush took office. The only pathetic attempt you liberals can try to make is that he "talked it down"At best (for you), the economy went bad as people started to see that George W. Bush had a chance of winning. It was about December of 2000 (maybe even very early 2001) if memory serves me correctly.

N:ck

07-14-2003, 12:52 PM

mlitefan:
N:ck:
mlitefan:
All I see are a few desperate liberals trying to defend the indefensible. A real treat to watch really. It's your position that's indefensible, it seems. After all, I have yet to hear a valid argument from you people. Leads me to believe that Republicans are as delusional as they are belligerent. I guess every truth can be twisted though, and I must commend you all on your creativity. Well N:ck...Show me on fact you have posted on this thread... Read every post I've made (except for the ones slamming my dad to make fun of you guys).
[ July 14, 2003, 01:54 PM: Message edited by: N:ck ]

AzDon

07-14-2003, 12:54 PM

I am proud to say that I have been a property relocation technician for over 25 years and I've worked more 70 hour weeks for less $$$ per hour worked than anyone on this board! Transportation wages are hostage to transportation rates which are hard fought in a VERY competitive environment!

mlitefan

07-14-2003, 12:54 PM

"At best (for you), the economy went bad as people started to see that George W. Bush had a chance of winning. It was about December of 2000 (maybe even very early 2001) if memory serves me correctly."
You have no idea how pathetic that sounds, do you? Obviously you don't or you would never post it for people to actually read.
Like I said, facts never get in the way of a good liberal tirade...
Fact is, the economy was going south under Clintons watch. It is a fact that you simply can't deal with, based on your empty pathetic response.

mlitefan

07-14-2003, 12:56 PM

Well N:ick...like most liberals, you can't recognize fact from opinion....

mlitefan

07-14-2003, 12:57 PM

AzDon:
I am proud to say that I have been a property relocation technician for over 25 years and I've worked more 70 hour weeks for less $$$ per hour worked than anyone on this board! Transportation wages are hostage to transportation rates which are hard fought in a VERY competitive environment! Property relocation "technician" WTF is that? A guvment position?

AzDon

07-14-2003, 01:01 PM

It's an IQ test: property relocation technician= truck driver.....easy for most people with a double digit IQ

N:ck

07-14-2003, 01:04 PM

mlitefan:
Property relocation "technician" WTF is that? A guvment position? In case he deletes it... :D

Jordy

07-14-2003, 01:04 PM

AzDon:
It's an IQ test: property relocation technician= truck driver.....easy for most people with a double digit IQ I guess everyone needs some kind of a fancy title. I have beyond a double digit IQ and I was going to guess "Mover." :confused: :confused:
Most "property relocation technicians" that I know just call themselves "truck drivers." :D Must be a liberal thing, as I did notice that Catmando (I think it was) has a fancy title too and it sounded an awful lot like a dispatcher. Oh well, to each their own. :D

mlitefan

07-14-2003, 01:04 PM

LMAO...A Truck driver...Calling it a "property relocation technician" sure makes it sound like you are ashamed of it...
Why not call it what it is instead of some made up contrived "technician" position...
What a freaking joke...Thats right on par with "sanitation engineer"...LOL

mlitefan

07-14-2003, 01:06 PM

Delete it, hell, I am enjoying the $hit out of it...It's freaking perfect!!! :D :D

N:ck

07-14-2003, 01:06 PM

OK, dad says to pull this post back...too mean. :D
[ July 14, 2003, 02:07 PM: Message edited by: N:ck ]

Jordy

07-14-2003, 01:07 PM

N:ck:
In case he deletes it... :D Wow, what a good son you are. Pretty sad when you drag your kids in and have them join in on an internet argument... LOL
"Web Presence Specialist." Now that sounds like a government position too... :D

N:ck

07-14-2003, 01:09 PM

jordanpaulk:
Wow, what a good son you are. Pretty sad when you drag your kids in and have them join in on an internet argument... LOLI'm sure you can't do the job, asshole!
[ July 14, 2003, 02:10 PM: Message edited by: N:ck ]

mlitefan

07-14-2003, 01:09 PM

N:ck:
OK, dad says to pull this post back...too mean. :D LOL...That the best you have? Well now, seems your truck driving dad "learn't" you real well.
Like I said, you liberals are easy...You have no game at all.
"relocation technician"...WOOOOOOHOOOOOO...LMAO!

Jordy

07-14-2003, 01:10 PM

N:ck:
jordanpaulk:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by N:ck:
[qb] In case he deletes it... :D Wow, what a good son you are. Pretty sad when you drag your kids in and have them join in on an internet argument... LOL
I'm sure you can't do the job, asshole! Wow, you lost me with that coherent post... :confused: :confused: :confused:

Havasu_Dreamin

07-14-2003, 01:10 PM

N:ck:
I guess every truth can be twisted though, and I must commend you all on your creativity. Yes it can, it's called being a democrat!

mlitefan

07-14-2003, 01:13 PM

Like I said, still no facts from the liberals, only empty BS posts.
Hey, like a$$holes, everyone has an opinion. You guys just can't seem to figure out the difference between fact and opinion.
Nice little exercise and thanks for playing...

AzDon

07-14-2003, 01:14 PM

I don't think for the kid or tell him what to post, but I intervene when he stoops to childish namecalling instead of making an eloquent point! He built these computers and keeps them running as well as handles all of my webmaster duties so he's allowed to have an opinion

Jordy

07-14-2003, 01:14 PM

I was just thinking, I don't know if my "Sales" title in my occupation is adequate. Perhaps something more along the lines of:
Temporary/Portable Diesel Powered Electrical Generation Systems Account Sales Representative.
Is that better? :D :D :D

mlitefan

07-14-2003, 01:15 PM

Classic...N:CK reposts my answer "in case I delete it" Then turns around and deletes his very next post...
LMAO...classic liberal hypocrisy in action...Damn this is easy...

N:ck

07-14-2003, 01:17 PM

mlitefan:
N:ck:
OK, dad says to pull this post back...too mean. :D LOL...That the best you have? Well now, seems your truck driving dad "learn't" you real well.
Like I said, you liberals are easy...You have no game at all.
"relocation technician"...WOOOOOOHOOOOOO...LMAO! Hahahahaha!!! Home school is for "luzers"!

Jordy

07-14-2003, 01:17 PM

AzDon:
I don't think for the kid or tell him what to post, but I intervene when he stoops to childish namecalling instead of making an eloquent point! I don't think he's made an eloquent point yet other than to mimic the Democratic rhetoric that you have been spewing. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but I do think it's sad that you are trying to get a point across with the only agreeing voice being that of your son, and I don't recall any place where that was pointed out, until I figured it out based upon the absurd titles and the matching domain names. Just a thought as it really doesn't help your credibility.

mlitefan

07-14-2003, 01:18 PM

I kind of like "Enterprise Computing Systems Specialist Recomender" for my computer consulting title... :D :D
Yeah...that's it!
~~~mental note: Get new business cards printed~~~

Jordy

07-14-2003, 01:18 PM

N:ck:
Home school is for "luzers"! Hookt on Fonix Werkd fer u huh?

N:ck

07-14-2003, 01:20 PM

All most as well as it wurcht for u, yea!

AzDon

07-14-2003, 01:20 PM

Are you suggesting that I unplug his computer?

Jordy

07-14-2003, 01:21 PM

N:ck:
All most as well as it wurcht for u, yea! Wow, you got me with that one too... I just don't know if I can take much more of this... :D :D :D

N:ck

07-14-2003, 01:22 PM

mlitefan:
Classic...N:CK reposts my answer "in case I delete it" Then turns around and deletes his very next post...
LMAO...classic liberal hypocrisy in action...Damn this is easy... By the way... It's different. I quoted your post because it was so stupid that I thought for sure you'd try to delete it. I deleted mine not because it was stupid, but because it was mean. If you want, I'll repost it, but don't say I didn't warn ya...

mlitefan

07-14-2003, 01:22 PM

jordanpaulk:
AzDon:
I don't think for the kid or tell him what to post, but I intervene when he stoops to childish namecalling instead of making an eloquent point! I don't think he's made an eloquent point yet other than to mimic the Democratic rhetoric that you have been spewing. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but I do think it's sad that you are trying to get a point across with the only agreeing voice being that of your son, and I don't recall any place where that was pointed out, until I figured it out based upon the absurd titles and the matching domain names. Just a thought as it really doesn't help your credibility. Bingo...When I see something worth responding to, I will. Until then, making fun of the liberal BS rhetoric is a hoot. They don't even realize I am making fun of them. Classic!!!
Come on, one of you liberals tell me the story about Bush being the unelected occupant againThat one just slays me!

miller19j

07-14-2003, 01:22 PM

AzDon:
As Jim Carrey said in "Liar! Liar!", "everybody lies, some (Bush) more than others" (Clinton) LMAOYou are kidding right!
Are you really that ignorant? Come on where do you get your information? Getting your news from Catmando doesnt count as a reliable source.
Just for future reference: Quoting Jim Carey in a political conversation does not make you sound educated. :rolleyes:

AzDon

07-14-2003, 01:22 PM

Great taste or less filling?

mlitefan

07-14-2003, 01:23 PM

N:ck:
mlitefan:
Classic...N:CK reposts my answer "in case I delete it" Then turns around and deletes his very next post...
LMAO...classic liberal hypocrisy in action...Damn this is easy... By the way... It's different. I quoted your post because it was so stupid that I thought for sure you'd try to delete it. I deleted mine not because it was stupid, but because it was mean. If you want, I'll repost it, but don't say I didn't warn ya... and the hole you are digging yourself into deepens...

N:ck

07-14-2003, 01:26 PM

Bye
[ July 14, 2003, 02:27 PM: Message edited by: N:ck ]

mlitefan

07-14-2003, 01:28 PM

So how about it AzDon...Are you ashamed to be a truck driver? I don't why you would be, the potential to make a lot of money exists in the field. Good friend of mine drives the big brown truck.
Embrace it...sounds like a career choice you arent happy about?

mlitefan

07-14-2003, 01:30 PM

N:ck:
Bye and yet another edited post from N:CK...
Sharp as a tack I see.

THOR

07-14-2003, 01:49 PM

It is really scary what a clone N:ck is.

dcb carrera

07-14-2003, 02:02 PM

I am proud to say that I have been a property relocation technician for over 25 years and I've worked more 70 hour weeks for less $$$ per hour worked than anyone on this board!
You are proud of this :confused: I'm not cutting down your job but why are you so proud of not making any money?

dcb carrera

07-14-2003, 02:02 PM

dcb carrera

07-14-2003, 02:02 PM

dcb carrera

07-14-2003, 02:02 PM

dcb carrera

07-14-2003, 02:03 PM

Sorry about that

ROZ

07-14-2003, 02:08 PM

N:ck:
mlitefan:
All I see are a few desperate liberals trying to defend the indefensible. A real treat to watch really. It's your position that's indefensible, it seems. After all, I have yet to hear a valid argument from you people. Leads me to believe that Republicans are as delusional as they are belligerent. I guess every truth can be twisted though, and I must commend you all on your creativity. Really, and you know absolute truth? Please enlighten us all.... :rolleyes:
And to think I thought Catmando was in the CIA.... :rolleyes:

MagicMtnDan

07-14-2003, 02:10 PM

AzDon:
Mr Bush has not made a blatantly honest statement to a television camera--EVER!!!
Every word he has ever uttered to a camera has been carefully crafted to decieve or stretch the truth. As Jim Carrey said in "Liar! Liar!", "everybody lies, some (Bush) more than others" (Clinton) That's it??? That's your argument??? That's the best you can do???
"Bush has not made a blatantly honest statement to a television camera -- ever" is the best you can do to criticize the President? Aw jeez, now that you've made me understand what a bad President we have, why, I'm just going to have to vote for Al Gore. Yeah, right.
If you're critical of what Bush hasn't said to a TV camera you must be able to talk for hours about what Clinton did and didn't say in front of a camera. How about when he perjured himself (that means LIED for those of you who are Property Relocation Technicians)?
Signed,
Director of Business-to-Business Commerce and Promotions (that's Sales & Marketing for those of you who are not Property Relocation Technicians).
PS: Be careful somebody who doesn't like your position on politics doesn't "swing their foot from the knee and use it as a lever to place their foot in your gluteus maximus" (that's "kick your ass" for those of you who are not Property Relocation Technicians).

Catmando

07-14-2003, 02:19 PM

Bush perjures himself every time he opens his mendacious mouth. Rove, Cheney and Rice are so arrogant, they think they can make him say ANYTHING and the gullible public will buy it.
Well, guess what? THEY'RE RIGHT.

mlitefan

07-14-2003, 02:36 PM

Catmando:
Bush perjures himself every time he opens his mendacious mouth. Rove, Cheney and Rice are so arrogant, they think they can make him say ANYTHING and the gullible public will buy it.
Well, guess what? THEY'RE RIGHT. Once again, cat uses his "spectacular" logic to weave his "facts"...
LOL...
Well now Cat, with that last statement of yours, I am absolutely convinced I need to become a liberal
:rolleyes:
Is their no end to a liberals stupidity? Wait...that was rhetorical. I have grown to expect no more from you catonce again, you didnt disappoint.

Dave C

07-14-2003, 02:39 PM

Cat... just because you and every other liberal don't believe Bush, doesn't make him a liar or the rest of us gullible.. that is a prejudicial statement.
I know a lot of liberals who hate conservatives so much that they wouldn't believe Bush if he told them the sky is blue.
no one is saying that you can't have an opinion but look beyond your prejudices

mlitefan

07-14-2003, 02:44 PM

My last post should read "there"...see, as a liberal I am already just a tad bit dumber than before... :D

THOR

07-14-2003, 02:45 PM

MagicMtnDan:
AzDon:
Mr Bush has not made a blatantly honest statement to a television camera--EVER!!!
Every word he has ever uttered to a camera has been carefully crafted to decieve or stretch the truth. As Jim Carrey said in "Liar! Liar!", "everybody lies, some (Bush) more than others" (Clinton) That's it??? That's your argument??? That's the best you can do???
"Bush has not made a blatantly honest statement to a television camera -- ever" is the best you can do to criticize the President? Aw jeez, now that you've made me understand what a bad President we have, why, I'm just going to have to vote for Al Gore. Yeah, right.
If you're critical of what Bush hasn't said to a TV camera you must be able to talk for hours about what Clinton did and didn't say in front of a camera. How about when he perjured himself (that means LIED for those of you who are Property Relocation Technicians)?
Signed,
Director of Business-to-Business Commerce and Promotions (that's Sales & Marketing for those of you who are not Property Relocation Technicians).
PS: Be careful somebody who doesn't like your position on politics doesn't "swing their foot from the knee and use it as a lever to place their foot in your gluteus maximus" (that's "kick your ass" for those of you who are not Property Relocation Technicians). AzDon,
So you are fully admitting that Clinton lied to all of us and that it is okay to spend out tax dollars with some fat pig. You have to be kidding me. At least get a hummer from a hot intern. Jesus. He not only lies through his teeth, he has the worst judgement and taste in women ever.

mlitefan

07-14-2003, 02:49 PM

"no one is saying that you can't have an opinion but look beyond your prejudices"
Let me save you the trouble. Cat isn't interested in anything other than spamming with his BS. Not interested in debate, not interested in facts. Just sit back and make fun of him...
I call him a liberal Archie Bunker...just another ignorant buffoon.
He is also an internet troll, posting his garbage simply to incite. He IS the definition of an internet troll. I know I shouldn't feed him but it's just so much fun pointing out how ridiculously stupid he really is.

exciter

07-14-2003, 02:55 PM

AzDon,
So you are fully admitting that Clinton lied to all of us and that it is okay to spend out tax dollars with some fat pig. You have to be kidding me. At least get a hummer from a hot intern. Jesus. He not only lies through his teeth, he has the worst judgement and taste in women ever.
thor,
i agree 200%!!!!
i would have issued an executive order to get "brittney" under the desk!!!

miller19j

07-14-2003, 02:56 PM

mlitefan:
I call him a liberal Archie Bunker...just another ignorant buffoon.
LMAO....That is the best comment of the day :)

AzDon

07-14-2003, 03:04 PM

Dave C:
no one is saying that you can't have an opinion but look beyond your prejudices I think you guys would do well to look beyond your prejudices!
You can't bring yourself to deal with the fact that after one of the most extensive partisan witch hunts in history, the only dirt they ever got on Clinton was that he got a Hummer and lied about it. Hardly treason, dontcha think? Now do you think that democrats in their bitterness should start a 200 million dollar witch hunt against Bush because of the truly treasonous things he's done? I think the Dem. party is showing that they are better people than that. With Bush we're talking serious sellouts of the American people. It seems that Bush percieves himself to be at his best when he is solmnly delivering bad news to the cameras so he keeps the bad news coming so he can talk about doing his job! I'm sick of pessimism and bad news. Bring back party Bill! Hummers for everyone! and Bill won't tell!
http://www.elcova.com/h2/potmjuly2.jpg
[ July 14, 2003, 04:11 PM: Message edited by: AzDon ]

058

07-14-2003, 03:16 PM

Don, you're not going to kick me off your forum for being a conservative are you? :D

mlitefan

07-14-2003, 03:21 PM

AzDon
[Now do you think that democrats in their bitterness should start a 200 million dollar witch hunt against Bush because of the truly treasonous things he's done? See, in the famous words of a truly great president, there you go again.
Why must you confuse your opinion as a statement of fact?
If Bill had just been an upstanding person and not the pile of crap he is, none of that would have ever happened. Just like a liberal to shift blame and personal responsibility to someone else.

mlitefan

07-14-2003, 03:24 PM

AzDon...There is a very good reason why the democrats are totally out of power. People just like you and cat are in charge of the party. I really hope you continue to think the way you do as the majority of America sees the ignorance of your ways.
Carry on...you are doing your part to ensure republicans stay in control for decades.

ROZ

07-14-2003, 03:27 PM

AzDon:
I'm sick of pessimism Comming from you, that is funny! A knee slapper!!!!
[ July 14, 2003, 04:29 PM: Message edited by: ROZ ]

sandblasted

07-14-2003, 04:03 PM

What I don't get is how anyone can say they enjoy a motor sport or outdoor recreation with motor vehicles, like boating, and still defend democrats?
Every single motor sport/activity in this country is being attacked by democrats. They have placed serious limits on our ability to ride offroad motorcycles, they are in the process of eliminating 2 stroke engines on waterways, they are looking for ways to close off more and more public land and waterways (see Diamond Valley Reservoir) from the public...
I know exactly where the democrats stand when it comes to my recreational hobbies and they can go to hell as far as I am concerned!

Jrocket

07-14-2003, 04:10 PM

Holy shit,5 pages of something! This thread took off.Id better go back and start at the beginning. :D

N:ck

07-14-2003, 04:24 PM

058:
Don, you're not going to kick me off your forum for being a conservative are you? :D Hell no.

N:ck

07-14-2003, 04:26 PM

Here's another edited post. :D So for those who are out of ammo, eat your heart out.
[ July 14, 2003, 05:28 PM: Message edited by: N:ck ]

eliminatedsprinter

07-14-2003, 04:28 PM

"Social security funds" go into and ultimatly comes out of the General Fund. How can one tax break steal it?? Thats just dopey, meaningless, Demogogic, retoric and very few of us on this forum are dumb enough to buy into it.
People getting back some of their tax money = stealing my retirement? pig_flyi . How hysterically emotional, demogogic and (when thought through) stupid.... :rolleyes:
Another typical DNC sucker slogin..... :p

AzDon

07-14-2003, 04:29 PM

058:
Don, you're not going to kick me off your forum for being a conservative are you? :D Kick you off? I thought you got mad about something and stopped coming around! I don't hold political disagreements against anybody! Heck, I can even sometimes change my mind when presented with a factual and eloquent argument. All I seem to be getting here is namecalling.....It appears I win!

N:ck

07-14-2003, 04:33 PM

AzDon:
058:
Don, you're not going to kick me off your forum for being a conservative are you? :D Kick you off? I thought you got mad about something and stopped coming around! I don't hold political disagreements against anybody! Heck, I can even sometimes change my mind when presented with a factual and eloquent argument. All I seem to be getting here is namecalling.....It appears I win! Actually, we were told some "facts" too, and they're gonna let you know it!
[ July 14, 2003, 05:42 PM: Message edited by: N:ck ]

AzDon

07-14-2003, 04:36 PM

eliminatedsprinter:
"Social security funds" go into and ultimatly comes out of the General Fund. How can one tax break steal it?? Thats just dopey, meaningless, Demogogic, retoric and very few of us on this forum are dumb enough to buy into it.
People getting back some of their tax money = stealing my retirement? pig_flyi . How hysterically emotional, demogogic and (when thought through) stupid.... :rolleyes:
Another typical DNC sucker slogin..... :p The General fund takes from the SSI trust fund and puts in IOU's except in the case there's a budget surplus which would hopefully entice them to buy back the IOU's. Deficit budget=more IOU's= less chance of ever getting the fund solvent again!
Learn how the system works and discuss facts instead of launching into some ignorant name calling tirade!
[ July 14, 2003, 05:37 PM: Message edited by: AzDon ]

N:ck

07-14-2003, 04:43 PM

AzDon:
[ July 14, 2003, 05:37 PM: Message edited by: AzDon ]OH MY GOD! Another edited post! jawdrop
[ July 14, 2003, 05:44 PM: Message edited by: N:ck ]

twistedpair

07-14-2003, 04:52 PM

Ok, I gotta weigh in. Never trust ANY politician who says he's working for you. It's all about 'special interests'. Personal gain, power brokers and pals are what politicians care about, not you. You are just the schmuck that they need to con to get elected.
That being said, all you can do is gravitate toward the group that is closest your interests. Me, I'm a gun toting, gas guzzling, blue collar (union even) kind of guy. All I want is to keep a respectable percent of what I earn and to be left the F alone.
Lets see, one party panders to oil men, the NRA, and "big business". The other party panders to trial lawyers, the sierra club, and any "victim" who can get his or her self in front of a camera.
I think my choice is obvious, don't you?

Jrocket

07-14-2003, 04:53 PM

Well I went back and read from the beginning.Sorry I did!!!Too many analyst in here.
THOR..... http://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies/happy/1/happy03.gif

Catmando

07-14-2003, 04:59 PM

TRIMDOG:
Ask the guy who started this thread what he tows with. Ford Ranger

Catmando

07-14-2003, 05:01 PM

THOR:
AzDon:
The economy was declining before the election? That is a complete and total lie! I suppose that the economy was recovering before Clinton took office? (another lie!!) I guess it also doesn't bother you that the Bush administration conspired with Enron to F__k California's residents and then did nothing to fix it when it happened. I suppose you'll also deny that Haliburton got exclusive restoration contracts for Iraq oil fields before the war was even fought! I am pissed that this counterfeit president has squandered my social security. You Bush supporters are in total denial about the damage this administration is doing to the country. The economy was f*&^ed up from Clinton. Bush inhereted his screw ups. High Roller said it well with his point. You my friend are just a radical. And YOU, my friend, are just an idiot.

mickeyfinn

07-14-2003, 05:05 PM

AzDon:
And about this tax cut going disproportionately to the wealthy: Is it fair? ABSOLUTELY! Will it help the economy? Probably not!
The administration's assertion that this tax cut will be spent back into the economy is based on a failed Reagan era concept called "supply side" or "trickle down" economics.
The scheme goes like this: The rich guy/ corporation is going to "trickle down" the money by hiring and increasing production or otherwise expand his payroll, simply because he has recieved this tax cut......AND IN TOTAL DISREGARD OF SOFT DEMAND FOR WHAT HIS COMPANY PRODUCES!
What really happens is that the mid-level "rich guy" entity pockets the money or "trickles it down" by buyin himself personal luxuries, such as fancy cars, vacation houses, and boats.This MIGHT work as an economic stimulus except that the mid-level tax return recipient represents a very small percentage of the overall tax cut dollars with most of them going to billionaires who haven't really got unmet spending needs. The folks at the bottom who would spend, spend, spend aren't able to help the economy much because their taxcut is small.
The budget left by Clinton was responsible and was the last hope for restoring the solvency of the Social Security trust fund before the "baby boom" generation starts asking for our stored funds(SSI) Mr. Bush's taxcuts have essentially been a giveaway of future tax funds whose amounts were based on Clinton era prosperity. This is partially how a balanced budget became a 6-trillion dollar deficit ( balanced budget and deficit are terms that apply to the current calendar year, so the situation is WAY worse!)
I would have much preferred having the accumulated deficit(which is mostly IOU's to SSI) paid down than to have Mr Bush borrow against future revenues so he can give people like his oil cronies and Bill Gates large taxcuts and put more IOU's in the SSI trustfund while doing so. This is irresponsible economics run amok and I believe it is not out of line to blame the stock market's failure on the paranoia and pessimism that has been developed and fueled by this guy's presidency!
Another thought: Bush senior was seen as wimpy by the muslim world for not finishing off Saddam in '91 and juniors are seen as less than the father by most societies! It's entirely possible that blaming Sept 11 on the last presidential election would not be that far-fetched! Actually the tax cut is very fair. The last numbers I saw shows the middle class receiving over 50% of the benefit from some of those cuts. The people who whine about the tax cuts not going to the ones who need it most forget one thing. IT IS A TAX CUT!!!! The people who are whining and complaining are complaining because these tax cuts are not WELFARE for those who don't pay taxes anyway. The more taxes you pay the more of a benefit you see. If you didn't pay any taxes to begin you don't get a tax cut. This was not meant as an entitlement program. It was meant to put some of your hard earned money back in your pocket instead of the governments. It was never supposed to put some of your hard earned money in some lazy good for nothings pocket that is laying back collecting welfare, or who can not contribute enough to this society to even fall into the minimum income bracket to have to pay taxes. Since this is a boating website I have to assume that most if not all of the members here own a boat of some kind. This usually means that the people here earn enough money to have some amount of disposable income which in turn implies that you are probably making enough money to have to pay taxes. EVERYONE WHO PAYS TAXES WILL RECEIVE SOME KIND OF TAX RELIEF. If you don't pay much you want get much.
OK,
I'll get off my soap box now but I really get tired of hearing all the liberal Democrats complaining because something that is supposed to be a tax cut isn't being used as a gift program to help them buy more votes.
once again just my .02 worth....and maybe now I'll get to actually keep more than .01 of it.
[ July 14, 2003, 06:14 PM: Message edited by: mickeyfinn ]

Catmando

07-14-2003, 05:14 PM

ROZI think it was Clinton who was not inhaling in Russia during the Vietnam Policing,,errrr War.. [/QB]I was inhaling then, I'll tell you that right now. And Clinton put his name back in the draft also. A brave thing for him to do, considering he was against the war.
So how "brave" was cokehead Bush? His daddy got him into the National Guard ahead of 500 more-qualified candidates. When orders were cut for him to transfer to the Alabama NG from Texas, he never showed up. He went AWOL longer than 30 days, which qualifies as desertion under the UCMJ.
Here's his enviable Vietnam war record;
www.awolbush.com (http://www.awolbush.com)

N:ck

07-14-2003, 05:24 PM

mickeyfinn:
AzDon:
And about this tax cut going disproportionately to the wealthy: Is it fair? ABSOLUTELY! Will it help the economy? Probably not!
The administration's assertion that this tax cut will be spent back into the economy is based on a failed Reagan era concept called "supply side" or "trickle down" economics.
The scheme goes like this: The rich guy/ corporation is going to "trickle down" the money by hiring and increasing production or otherwise expand his payroll, simply because he has recieved this tax cut......AND IN TOTAL DISREGARD OF SOFT DEMAND FOR WHAT HIS COMPANY PRODUCES!
What really happens is that the mid-level "rich guy" entity pockets the money or "trickles it down" by buyin himself personal luxuries, such as fancy cars, vacation houses, and boats.This MIGHT work as an economic stimulus except that the mid-level tax return recipient represents a very small percentage of the overall tax cut dollars with most of them going to billionaires who haven't really got unmet spending needs. The folks at the bottom who would spend, spend, spend aren't able to help the economy much because their taxcut is small.
The budget left by Clinton was responsible and was the last hope for restoring the solvency of the Social Security trust fund before the "baby boom" generation starts asking for our stored funds(SSI) Mr. Bush's taxcuts have essentially been a giveaway of future tax funds whose amounts were based on Clinton era prosperity. This is partially how a balanced budget became a 6-trillion dollar deficit ( balanced budget and deficit are terms that apply to the current calendar year, so the situation is WAY worse!)
I would have much preferred having the accumulated deficit(which is mostly IOU's to SSI) paid down than to have Mr Bush borrow against future revenues so he can give people like his oil cronies and Bill Gates large taxcuts and put more IOU's in the SSI trustfund while doing so. This is irresponsible economics run amok and I believe it is not out of line to blame the stock market's failure on the paranoia and pessimism that has been developed and fueled by this guy's presidency!
Another thought: Bush senior was seen as wimpy by the muslim world for not finishing off Saddam in '91 and juniors are seen as less than the father by most societies! It's entirely possible that blaming Sept 11 on the last presidential election would not be that far-fetched! Actually the tax cut is very fair. The last numbers I saw shows the middle class receiving over 50% of the benefit from some of those cuts. The people who whine about the tax cuts not going to the ones who need it most forget one thing. IT IS A TAX CUT!!!! The people who are whining and complaining are complaining because these tax cuts are not WELFARE for those who don't pay taxes anyway. The more taxes you pay the more of a benefit you see. If you didn't pay any taxes to begin you don't get a tax cut. This was not meant as an entitlement program. It was meant to put some of your hard earned money back in your pocket instead of the governments. It was never supposed to put some of your hard earned money in some lazy good for nothings pocket that is laying back collecting welfare, or who can not contribute enough to this society to even fall into the minimum income bracket to have to pay taxes. Since this is a boating website I have to assume that most if not all of the members here own a boat of some kind. This usually means that the people here earn enough money to have some amount of disposable income which in turn implies that you are probably making enough money to have to pay taxes. EVERYONE WHO PAYS TAXES WILL RECEIVE SOME KIND OF TAX RELIEF. If you don't pay much you want get much.
OK,
I'll get off my soap box now but I really get tired of hearing all the liberal Democrats complaining because something that is supposed to be a tax cut isn't being used as a gift program to help them buy more votes.
once again just my .02 worth....and maybe now I'll get to actually keep more than .01 of it. Quoting that post was counter-productive. It not only explains why the Bush tax cuts are ridiculous in the first place, but it also explains why the "'trickle-down' economics" concept that's in play is ineffective, or maybe even damaging, to the economy.
[ July 14, 2003, 06:24 PM: Message edited by: N:ck ]

MagicMtnDan

07-14-2003, 05:28 PM

AzDon:
...the only dirt they ever got on Clinton was that he got a Hummer and lied about it. Hardly treason, dontcha think? It wasn't the only dirt - that was just the simplest one - here's a news flash for you...CLINTON LIED in a deposition. He committed perjury (an indictable offense)!
Don't you think the President should tell the truth? Don't you think the President shouldn't be lying about his having sex with an intern?!
Just exactly when do your moral boundaries kick in? Is it right after a Democratic President got caught lying on a taped deposition? Don, do you have a moral compass at all?
So you're saying that's OK and that you'll allow Bush what, one lie? Two lies? How many lies are OK for you Don?
We haven't even gotten into travel-gate, and pardon-gate and the incredible fiasco at our nation's top secret lab. Or what about selling the White House to the Chinese for money?! What secrets did the Clinton administration give them? We have yet to find all of them but they are VERY significant and serious since they're related to this country's defense and safety.
So I ask you again Don, how many lies and misdeeds were OK by your Democratic President? I want to know how many you're giving to every other President that comes into office after Bill the liar.
[ July 14, 2003, 06:31 PM: Message edited by: MagicMtnDan ]

Dave C

07-14-2003, 05:33 PM

Its a "myth" that Bush is reponsible for the economic downturn.
FACT, economic growth is measured by GDP, it started downtrending in the 3rd quarter of 2000 (before Bush was even elected) That is when Clinton was president.
Fact of the matter is thatthe "economy" doesn't turn on a dime so it took 6-12 months prior to this for the results to show up in the 3rd quarter 2000.
Don't believe me look at the government site. http://www.economicindicators.gov/
next liberal myth to dispell?.....

Dave C

07-14-2003, 05:37 PM

Also the "stock market" began downtrending in the early 2000. (i.e. 6 months before GDP downtrended!)
Again, don't believe me, look at the NASDAQ on any browser. (ticker ^ixic)
Yahoo:
http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=%5Eixic&d=c&k=c1&t=5y&a=v&p=s&l=on&z=m&q=l
next liberal myth please?!?...
BTW, Amen HighRoller

N:ck

07-14-2003, 05:45 PM

MagicMtnDan:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by AzDon:
[qb]It wasn't the only dirt
...
CLINTON LIED in a deposition. He committed perjury (an indictable offense)!
Looks to me like you're talking about one offense, and so it is the only "dirt". How many lies are OK for a President? NONE! OK, so Clinton's not perfect. The guy has sex. BIG DEAL. Have you had sex, Dan? Or is it too immoral for you? Is it the lying about having been seduced that's wrong? Does that really outweigh the numerous lies of the Bush administration?
[ July 14, 2003, 06:48 PM: Message edited by: N:ck ]

mickeyfinn

07-14-2003, 05:45 PM

I never said I thought the tax cuts were good for the economy. I don't believe that I stated an opinion one way or the other, I was only trying to make my point that since it is a TAX CUT it naturally will be a benefit to those who actually pay taxes. As to whether or not it is of benefit to the economy I don't know. I do know that with the state of the deficit (which I believe is something we are dealing with because of Clinton) and the state of the Social Security (which is due to other Democrats raiding the piggy bank) that I personally would rather have seen that money go directly against the deficit than to a tax cut. If you believe the finacial models though they all tend to show that for every dollar dollar spent by the middle class the economy sees an overall impact of a greater than $100.00 increase in total spending. If the model holds to be true and the middle class only receives a grand total of 10% of the total tax cut then the net increase in income taxes will be somewhere in the neighborhood of a 3 fold payback. I am what I call a "conservative liberal". I want the government to protect our country from foreign invaders, Give the states the widest possible discretion in setting laws and STAY THE HELL OUT OF MY WALLET!!! I don't mind paying taxes to pay for what I feel I want the government to do for me. I don't even mind that since I am not the only one deciding what the government does that I have to pay a little more. What I don't like is the government holding me at gunpoint to take my hard earned money and put it in the hands of someone who is sitting back drawing welfare. Since you got me back on my soap box:
If we are going to force our citizens to pay into a massive social program at least lets keep it in our country. I am an isolationist. I would not spend a dime on any more foreign aid until ALL of our people had shoes on their feet and food on their table. Damn yuo did it to me again. Now the pain from carpal tunnel syndrome is hurting me....oh yeah I almost forgot, the democrats have made it possible for me to sue someone for that and possibly win big money!!!!

Dave C

07-14-2003, 06:38 PM

...tax cuts.. my specialty (considering I am a tax accountant)
the top 50% of taxpayers pay 96% of income taxes, The 1'%ers, pay 34%. Source; IRS.
the truth is that only the hardworking pay taxes in this country.
The working poor don't pay income taxes only payroll taxes which are, of course, offset by the EIC.
The reason they can't lower payroll taxes. The Feds can't afford it. (damn double counting of SSI)
A tax rebate to someone who doesn't pay taxes in the first place is called "welfare."
Besides a "rich" person who makes 10 times more than you, doesn't pay 10 times the taxes, they pay 30 times the taxes than you......
Next liberal myth ?!?....

ROZ

07-14-2003, 06:45 PM

N:ck:
MagicMtnDan:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by AzDon:
[qb]It wasn't the only dirt
...
CLINTON LIED in a deposition. He committed perjury (an indictable offense)!
Looks to me like you're talking about one offense, and so it is the only "dirt". How many lies are OK for a President? NONE! OK, so Clinton's not perfect. The guy has sex. BIG DEAL. Have you had sex, Dan? Or is it too immoral for you? Is it the lying about having been seduced that's wrong? Does that really outweigh the numerous lies of the Bush administration? Nick, please don't force me to search for lies, or twisted views of the truth as you put it, by Good ole boy Bill's administration over the 8 years of the clinton regime. You know it's there...I can guarantee that I could find more "dirt" than just a "sexual relation" to post for you to read. But that's true will all administrations....
One more thing.. If 911 happened on Bill's watch, it would have been the last straw for their administration as well. Clinton has said on many occasions that he was regretful that he didn't nab Osama and take care of Saddam when he had the chances....
Now that Bill and Hill have made quite a few million dollars, I wonder how Chelsea would feel about having over of half of her inherritance wisked away by probate(?) taxes....Oh, nevermind, I know they've already taken care of their assets by trusts....They wouldn't want to give any of that away now, would they....