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MJ19
05-01-2003, 03:36 PM
I am going to have a debate in my political science class sometime in the next week.
The question I have to debate is:
What role will the USA &/or the UK play in the new iraqi government? I will not know what side of the debate I'll be supporting until the professor dictates that, so any articles, information, personal oppinions would be more then welcome and much appreciated! :D
Thanks in advance for your input...I appreciate it! :D
[ May 01, 2003, 04:37 PM: Message edited by: MJ19 ]

eliminatedsprinter
05-01-2003, 04:11 PM
We will play our usual role----suger daddy.
Whatever they do, you can bet we will bankrole it.
I would say we coudn't make things worse than they were under Saddam, however our last administration did manage to make Haiti much worse off than before we helped them with a regime change. Of course, this isn't the last administration, so there is hope that Bush can do better than the horrer Clinton has imposed upon Haiti.
[ May 01, 2003, 05:12 PM: Message edited by: eliminatedsprinter ]

SCUBA STEVE
05-01-2003, 04:11 PM
dont you have something eaiser for the guys who didnt go to college, like what is 2x2? :D
when I took political science in JC, I dropped it when the professor said I had to read a book a week. I wish I would have stuck with it though.
:(
good luck.

MJ19
05-01-2003, 05:17 PM
SCUBA STEVE:
when I took political science in JC, I dropped it when the professor said I had to read a book a week. I wish I would have stuck with it though.
:(
good luck. The worst part of this WHOLE semester (which I've hated every step of the way) is that Fresno State dropped my program so my last year in school has been for not :( :mad: :( :mad:
But I figured with 3 more weeks to go, I might as well finish, just in case somewhere down the line I need them. :rolleyes:
Keep the opinions, articles and referrences coming...I can take your comments and do research on them giving me kindling for my fire :D Keep it coming!!! :D

CA Stu
05-01-2003, 05:47 PM
MJ19:
I am going to have a debate in my political science class sometime in the next week.
The question I have to debate is:
What role will the USA &/or the UK play in the new iraqi government? I will not know what side of the debate I'll be supporting until the professor dictates that, so any articles, information, personal oppinions would be more then welcome and much appreciated! :D
Thanks in advance for your input...I appreciate it! :D From whose perspective? From ours, sensible, benevolent peacekeepers, from theirs, conquering infidel imperialists...
CA Stu <-- might makes right :)

MJ19
05-01-2003, 05:57 PM
CA Stu:
From whose perspective? From ours, sensible, benevolent peacekeepers, from theirs, conquering infidel imperialists...
CA Stu <-- might makes right :) I will not know until the professor tells us which side we are on...and at that moment I will have to begin debating, so I need any and all sides :D

Catmando
05-01-2003, 06:30 PM
eliminatedsprinter:
...however our last administration did manage to make Haiti much worse off than before we helped them with a regime change. Of course, this isn't the last administration, so there is hope that Bush can do better than the horrer Clinton has imposed upon Haiti. Jean Baptiste Aristede lobbied hard to be the next Haitian president after Baby Doc left. To that end, he convinced the Clinton administration that he was a good CHRISTIAN and would do right by the Haitian people. Just goes to show you that professors of religion can be just as evil as those, like Saddam Hussein, who use naked force to gain control.
You said nothing about the numerous South and Central American dictators that our governments have imposed on those long-suffering people during the 20th Century. An innocent oversight on your part, perhaps??
[ May 01, 2003, 07:32 PM: Message edited by: Catmando ]

Tom Brown
05-01-2003, 06:34 PM
I think someone in the political sciences should do a doctoral thesis on the impact the Hot Boat Magazine forums have made on world peace.

My Man's Sportin' Wood
05-01-2003, 06:37 PM
You probably already know this info, but in case you don't, it might be helpful for an argument or prepare for a counter argument.
After WWI, Great Britain controlled most of the Middle East, and Iraq was under British control. They were only supposed to be there to help set up a government after the Ottoman Empire collapsed and left a power vacuum. They stayed until they were forced out in the 1950s. That is why the Iraqi's are so nervous about our intentions today.
Hope that helps.
Angie

DickDanger
05-01-2003, 08:23 PM
MJ, I wish that you had invited me to be your partner!!! I LOVED political science (debating) in college (go figure). Whatever you do, try to get your references and research straight. Good luck!!! -DD Out
[ May 01, 2003, 09:23 PM: Message edited by: DickDanger ]

Charley
05-01-2003, 09:03 PM
Tom Brown:
I think someone in the political sciences should do a doctoral thesis on the impact the Hot Boat Magazine forums have made on world peace. LMAO dramatically more interesting than that whole middle east crap wink

MJ19
05-02-2003, 04:45 AM
DickDanger:
MJ, I wish that you had invited me to be your partner!!! You mean you didn't get your invitation? :confused: I gave your address to the professor's event coordinator...I wonder what happened? :confused:
:D

eliminatedsprinter
05-02-2003, 10:42 AM
Catmando
I only mentioned Haiti, because it was our most recent example of an U.S. invasion with the specific goal of regime change. Aristiede did not directly follow Baby Doc. There were several dictators in between inc Namphy, Manigat, Avril, Trouillot, Aristede etc.. Aristede did not fool anybody, least of all the Clinton administration. He had already accumulated an extremly brutal track record (worse than all others) before he was selected by the Clinton administration. They chose him to lead because he was the only leftist in the potential field.
[ May 02, 2003, 12:14 PM: Message edited by: eliminatedsprinter ]

eliminatedsprinter
05-02-2003, 11:30 AM
eliminatedsprinter:
We will play our usual role----suger daddy.
Whatever they do, you can bet we will bankrole it.
I would say we coudn't make things worse than they were under Saddam, however our last administration did manage to make Haiti much worse off than before we helped them with a regime change. Of course, this isn't the last administration, so there is hope that Bush can do better than the horrer Clinton has imposed upon Haiti.

eliminatedsprinter
05-02-2003, 12:12 PM
eliminatedsprinter:
eliminatedsprinter:
We will play our usual role----suger daddy.
Whatever they do, you can bet we will bankrole it.
I would say we coudn't make things worse than they were under Saddam, however our last administration did manage to make Haiti much worse off than before we helped them with a regime change. Of course, this isn't the last administration, so there is hope that Bush can do better than the horrer Clinton has imposed upon Haiti. MJ19
Before I get too sidetracked with Catmando on Haiti, let me explain one reason Haiti's history may apply to your subject.
One side of the debate on the war in Iraq has been loudly claiming that it is "unprecedented" and it's the first time we have invaded a nation that has not directly attacked or threatend us or our allies etc... This is, of course, absolute garbage. We have invaded and occupied Haiti alone at least 3 times for the purpose of ousting evil regimes etc... We even long term occupied Haiti (from 1915-1934).

eliminatedsprinter
05-02-2003, 12:18 PM
Catmando:
eliminatedsprinter:
...however our last administration did manage to make Haiti much worse off than before we helped them with a regime change. Of course, this isn't the last administration, so there is hope that Bush can do better than the horrer Clinton has imposed upon Haiti. Jean Baptiste Aristede lobbied hard to be the next Haitian president after Baby Doc left. To that end, he convinced the Clinton administration that he was a good CHRISTIAN and would do right by the Haitian people. Just goes to show you that professors of religion can be just as evil as those, like Saddam Hussein, who use naked force to gain control.
You said nothing about the numerous South and Central American dictators that our governments have imposed on those long-suffering people during the 20th Century. An innocent oversight on your part, perhaps??

eliminatedsprinter
05-02-2003, 12:29 PM
eliminatedsprinter:
Catmando
I only mentioned Haiti, because it was our most recent example of an U.S. invasion with the specific goal of regime change. Aristide did not directly follow Baby Doc. There were several dictators in between inc Namphy, Manigat, Avril, Trouillot, Aristide etc.. Aristide did not fool anybody, least of all the Clinton administration. He had already accumulated an extremly brutal track record (worse than all others) before he was selected by the Clinton administration. They chose him to lead because he was the only leftist in the potential field. To clarify Clinton did not install Aristide for the first time. Jean-Bertrand Aristide first took power in 1991. Clinton re-installed him even after the horrors of his first regime were well known to people who were paying attention to what was going on there.
I've read a bunch of referances on Haiti. If your interested, here is a great one VOODOO POLITICS The Clinton/Gore Destruction of Haiti by Lynn Garrison, 2000. P.S. Don't let the title turn you off, this author is equally critical of Bush Sr and other administrations on there handling of Haiti as well.
[ May 02, 2003, 01:53 PM: Message edited by: eliminatedsprinter ]

eliminatedsprinter
05-02-2003, 12:50 PM
[ May 02, 2003, 01:55 PM: Message edited by: eliminatedsprinter ]

eliminator777
05-04-2003, 03:49 AM
I think we need a poll question. What roll HOT BOAT FORUMS should be playing in American policy on the war . :D :D :D :p :p

bigq
05-04-2003, 11:00 AM
Despite any blunders in the past of rebuilding a country. I do believe that in the end it will work out for Iraq. What type of government will be established is still up in the air. You can almost bet it will be a democracy for the Iraq people with a lot of western influence. The biggest factor I would say is Iraq has a resource the world needs which will provide them with the financial support to rebuild Iraq and carry it into the future. I would venture to say the US or the UK is not going to let these resources go into control of a government that is going to abuse that resource. Unlike say Afghanistan where there biggest export I think was Opium and not much else to help to rebuild the country. That I believe is going to be the biggest role of the US and or UK. The problem is going to be which Islamic branch can be put up with by all the people in Iraq. Can they have an election and live with the winner or just kill them off if they don’t like the outcome?

JustMVG
05-04-2003, 11:07 AM
Tom Brown:
I think someone in the political sciences should do a doctoral thesis on the impact the Hot Boat Magazine forums have made on world peace. Now lets have HBJet and Chet Capoli debate the debate rules and processes, should we make this a pay per view??? MVG

Thunderbutt
05-04-2003, 12:00 PM
After we set up a new gov. in Iraqi, I hope the people don't lose as much money as I have in the last two years.

MJ19
05-07-2003, 07:47 PM
Keep the info coming...my debate is on Monday...still need more info to work with...
you guys are willing to toss crazy non-logical ideas as well...I'm sure some of my classmates will come up with a few doozies :rolleyes: :D