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dmontzsta
06-30-2003, 06:13 PM
I dont really pay much attention to them, last time I even looked into them was when this big Red one was hanging on the side of us for a little bit, and it seemed to be the fastest I had seen, this was about 2 years ago. How fast are they making them now?

mbrown2
06-30-2003, 06:17 PM
My guess, 65-70...

buck183
06-30-2003, 07:03 PM
mbrown2 had a pretty good guess.
65-67 is a little more accurate. There is as much as 2 mph difference in the same models anymore due to slight motor, hull, and tunning variances from the factory.
I still get cracked up at the people that say they've had their's up to 75 mph. A full blown SuperStock is not running much faster than that and it's a 35k+ boat.
Buck

mbrown2
06-30-2003, 07:06 PM
buck,
My guess was just that a dumb guess :) ...I use to have a 110 HP XP, and now I see these 150 - 165 HP machines....What is the quickest out there, and how quick are those new Honda Turbo's?

BP1330
06-30-2003, 07:10 PM
Just a thought but "who cares?" Not trying to be rude so don't get offended.

MagicMtnDan
06-30-2003, 07:13 PM
Frickin' double post
[ June 30, 2003, 08:15 PM: Message edited by: MagicMtnDan ]

MagicMtnDan
06-30-2003, 07:14 PM
Apparently the Yamaha GP1300R is one of, if not the fastest PWC available. I've read that it'll do 66MPH out-of-the-box and when you add a new impeller, rideplate, pump (and seal the pump), all for under $500, you're looking at 70-71MPH.
I sold my PWC last year - it was a SeaDoo XP Limited with a Coffman pipe and it did about 62MPH. That's why I want my boat to do 70+ - I do not want to get passed by a lake lice.

dmontzsta
06-30-2003, 07:21 PM
holy crap that is fast...I need to add more power, or in a few years they will be passing me up.

mbrown2
06-30-2003, 07:30 PM
BP1330:
Just a thought but "who cares?" Not trying to be rude so don't get offended. I cared that's why I asked.. :)

ryantparks
06-30-2003, 07:52 PM
Magic mtn dan is correct w/the 1300r by yamaha. I had the opportunity to ride R&d's 1200r race boat a couple of years ago a was clocked at 79.9 mph with a stalker radar gun (not to brag!). I still have 2 skiis but just recently bought an Ultra Stealth which I like better mainly because I now have 3 kids and a wife.

jus a baker
06-30-2003, 07:56 PM
my buddy was a 800 gp built to the nuts,it supose to be in the mid 60s I STILL AINT BUYIN IT. then i had one on a 1200 gp think he was fast up till about 55, they are getting faster, but they are still lake lice to me no matter how fast they are

mbrown2
06-30-2003, 07:57 PM
I got rid of our Jet ski's after we got the river house. Seems like it should have been the other way around, but we mainly use the boat while we are there, so I did not want to have to be responsible for others on our Jet Ski's. They are fun, but folks that do not know the rules of the river can get into a lot of trouble out there on them.

Kindsvater Flat
06-30-2003, 08:21 PM
Rexx Racing (http://www.rexxracing.com/)

dmontzsta
06-30-2003, 08:24 PM
now that is ****ing SICK eek!

MagicMtnDan
06-30-2003, 09:33 PM
Kindsvater Flat:
Rexx Racing (http://www.rexxracing.com/) From that Web site:
Prototype Mazda Rotary Powered SeaDoo GSX was available on display at The JAM on 5/16/02-5/21/02. The Wankel powered jetski was also on display and in action at The Florida Rally Series, St. Augustine.
Purpose of kit:
1) Update older PWCs with higher output, more efficient motors. Different Rotary Packages may be released to meet future smog requirements and reduced noise emissions; demand of alternate setups will dictate future options.
2) Propose to IJSBA the need for "Unlimited" class jetski races to draw in higher spectator attendance and diversify PWC racing activity beyond factory sponsorships.
3) Piggyback local Hot Boat Drag Races to develop PWC class and compete against drag boat top fuelers
Details of Kit:
1) Option of 12A (1200cc two rotor), 13B (1300cc two rotor) and 20B (2000cc three rotor) OEM Mazda Rotary Motors, non-ported or ported configurations (current test platform uses a stock non-ported 1986 13B motor with 69k miles with no rebuild due to time constraints, used as is from Junkyard which has yielded upper 60 mph, low 70 mph)
2) Precision tig welded 304 SST, water-jacketed exhaust header system. Waterbox being developed. Dual Exhaust Systems will be available in the future requiring dual exhaust exit ports. (Imagine dual stacks barking out the mighty wankel sound). Currently reviewing benefits of completely dry versus wet exhaust system. 13B, RX-3 Sound Clip: http://www.geocities.com/cd23c/sounds.html
3) Stock Electronic Ignition w/ stock vacuum advance, versions will be available using 1 or up to 3 channel MSD ignition for ultimate timing control
4) Modded Racing Beat intake with 47mm BRM Buckshots, Peripheral Port motors require 55mm Minimum Carb Size. An Intake will be designed specific for the application and incorporate fuel injection provisions.
5) Precision Billet aluminum, Casted Aluminum and SST hardware make up drive box assembly (necessary to relocate the Rotary Crank torque to the Jet Pump centerline). This is the heart of the conversion utilizing 785 Seadoo flywheel which considerably reduces motor inertia (original Mazda flywheel was over 30 lbs!!).
Different Drive Ratio combinations will be available.
6) Closed loop and Open loop cooling Systems Available
Estimated power at Crank: 190 hp all day long on 87 octane gas!!! (146 hp, emissions legal stock '86 13B + Estimated 20% increase for RGR Exhaust upgrade + Estimated 10% increase for RGR Intake upgrade, Basic motor remains stock with no port work)
Estimated power at Jet Pump: 0.98*190hp = 186 hp (Assume 98% driveline efficiency), baseline power package (currently spinning a 155mm pump, 17/22 concord impeller to 7150RPMs through 84mm reduction nozzle, motor has 69000 miles on it and running 2 out of 4 spark plugs)
Street Porting of the motor yields up to 230+ hp at crank ($300 for port work, $300/40hp = $7.5/hp for this mod!)
Bridge Porting of the motor yields up to 250+ hp at crank
J Porting of the motor yields up to 280 hp at crank but tends to be the least reliable porting configuration.
Peripheral Porting for the motor yields up to 310-350 hp at crank, naturally aspirated depending on compression ratios, ignition timing, intake and exhaust configurations.
Power Potential of motor: 800 hp with turbocharging/supercharging for two rotor versions, Turbocharged three rotor motors (aka 20B Mazda Rotaries) have been up to 1200 hp (Per MSD dyno runs). These are high numbers, but well known throughout the Mazda Rotary community and substantiated with real dyno results (provided the motor is built correctly). These high hp figures give you an idea of general engine robustness. The Eccentric (aka crankshaft) is very strong.
Don't believe the HP of these motors? Just ask some SCCA Mazda Racing guys and ΒΌ mile drag strip racers.
RPM limitations: 9000 RPM for stock motor, 13000 RPM for a built motor. The Mazda rotary is a volumetric marvel, it revs nicely at the top end if you uncork it and with considerably more mid range torque than an equivalent size two stroke. A 1.3 liter two stroke (difficult for forced induction) or 2.6 liter four stroke (bigger and heavier) would have to have the same RPM capability in order to compare with these volumetrics. It's simply the MOST cost effective, versatile powerplant available allowing for good reliability, weight and size constraints relative to Sit-Down PWC requirements.
Min Octane Requirement: 87 for 190 hp
Gas Consumption: 0.47 lbs of fuel per hour per each hp generated compared to an efficient aircraft air-cooled four-stroke piston engine at 0.45 lbs of fuel per hour per each hp generated. If both engines were to run rich, 0.65 lbs of fuel per hour per each hp for either engine (Ref. Sport Aviation Magazine, Feb, 2002 ed). Cruise efficiency of motor higher than cruise efficiency of two strokes. Exact figures not available at this point.
Failure mode of engine: Typically a slow loss of power, no thrown rods or other related catastrophic failures. The loss of one rotor function is adequate power to make it back to the dock unlike current two cylinder two strokes which depend on exhaust back pressure to build adequate power.
Estimated Engine Durability: 3000 hours at 4500 RPM and 150 hp (Ref. Sport Aviation Magazine, Feb, 2002 edition). The Mazda Rotary engine has been the MOST durable engine to date to race in the grueling LeMans Endurance Race.
Rotary Engines from early 1974 up to 1995 RX-7 will work. Mazda has continued wankel motor production for the Cosmo Sedan sold only in Asia since the mid 90s to present (Cosmo 20B is a three rotor motor producing 300 hp out of the box). The RX-8 (using a new variation of the 13B two rotor) will be introduced to the states in 2003 (250 emission legal hp at 8500 RPM). http://www.mazdausa.com/futuremodels
Estimated Driveline Durability: TBD Hrs, currently being qualified. Belt rated at 2000 hrs with 175 continuous hp.
Performance:
Initial Top Speed with "minimal" tuning time: Easy upper 60s
Carbon Fiber Hull from Fischetti is not a top speed hull. The particular carbon fiber test hull was setup for closed course racing.
Estimated Ski weight with Carbon Fiber Hull: Less than 500 lbs (Estimate another 100 lbs for fiberglass skis). If money is no object, the steel end and mid plates of the motor can be replaced with cast 356 aluminum alloy, www.racingbeat.com. (http://www.racingbeat.com.) This will save near 50lbs of weight or make the engine weight near the same of a triple cylinder two stroke watercraft motor.
Acceleration: FAST!!! Mid Range torque of a 13B rotary at 5200 RPMs: 140 ft-lbs using 87 octane gas, non-ported motor or 195 ft-lbs at 5500 RPMs using 87 octane gas, peripheral port motor. Compared to 90 ft-lbs at 5200 RPM for a triple piped 1200cc Kawasaki motor running 92 octane gas (ref. JetSports Magazine, Factory Pipe dyno run). Output Shaft torque directly effects motor spool up as it relates to pump load and driveline inertia. Low inertia was demonstrated at The JAM while running ski on the trailer with BRM carbs that had minimal tune time relative to the rotary application (it spools up even quicker!).
(ok Skat Trak, start taking me seriously and make a bigger pump!!..a pump bigger than what the nadless two strokes can push).
Current Plans: Qualify and further optimize prototype concept ski. Solidify design configuration and review design for design to cost tradeoffs (cheap bearings versus expensive high quality bearings with respect to expected design life, qualification with respect to low cost done up front in the design process). Accumulate operational time and perform a tear down to inspect for any signs of premature wear. Redesign as necessary. Perform Design to cost trade-offs up front; solidify design pedigree during qualification.
All Casting tooling, CNC programming/fixturing and development/qualification are considered "free" since this is a hobby for me and will not be rolled into final kit pricing. Pricing break down will be posted of individual components after successful qualification of unit and subsequent configuration solidification. Potential design changes prevent the posting of a component cost break down.
Applicability of kit:
All two seater and three seater Jetskis: SeaDoo (GSX, GTX), Kawasaki (Ultra 150, STS, STX, STX-R, etc), Yamaha (GP, GPR, XL, XLT, etc), and related 2/3 seater skis for Tigershark and Polaris. Custom mount packages will be made depending on customer requirements.
Kits will also be made available for older two stroke jetskis and jetboats based on size and vehicle stability with respect to max horsepower capability for that hull. Some older hulls have thin wall construction and are not recommended for high horsepower setups.
Kit will be available through direct and regional distribution. PPG (www.sea-doo.net) would be the first approved distributor/installer given their high reputation in the PWC business and customer satisfaction. PPG may also conduct their own robustness tests and recommendations to change the configuration may be considered. Discussions with PPG and potential incorporation of these kits are only preliminary. Advantages of regional shops to perform the engine installation will avoid expensive shipping costs of the hull. Level I (190 hp non-ported), Level II (230-260 hp mild porting), Level III (300+ hp, peripheral porting), Level IV (For HP Addicts, Water Intercooled Supercharging ) Rotary setups. Recommend that only experienced mechanics attempt such an installation.
This kit will be the ultimate for grudge racers and families who want more pulling power for watersports requiring towing.
Performance results are preliminary using near stock components. Higher performance can be achieved with more diligent tuning efforts.
MPH per MPH, you won't find a cheaper and more reliable setup to obtain 75 and up mph speeds.
For investment opportunity, questions on kits, or requests to be a distributor, email:
RexxRacing@yahoo.com

Phat_Kat
07-01-2003, 06:55 AM
PWC are going between 62 and 73 MPH nowdays. Some of the fastest ski's are the seadoo RX and XP both good about 70. The fastest out their stock in is the honda aquatrax. It pulled in at 72.8 MPH on radar. The new 2 seater version I have not yet radard but I have a feeling we'll be looking at a 75+ ski. Most ski's don't break 70 but when you start talking 10K for the things you're looking at 70+ speeds.
[ July 01, 2003, 08:08 AM: Message edited by: Phat_Kat ]

SCUBA STEVE
07-01-2003, 07:37 AM
For those of us that have gone 60+ on Jet skis in lake chop its more of a work out then anything else. I never used gloves and wish I did.
I'll take a 50mph boat ride with some honeys, a few cold beers & have the music going, rather then ride a jet ski. wink :D

whippinskippy
07-01-2003, 11:20 AM
consider it done........over and over this weekend amigo :) :)

Phat_Kat
07-01-2003, 11:27 AM
SCUBA STEVE:
For those of us that have gone 60+ on Jet skis in lake chop its more of a work out then anything else. I never used gloves and wish I did.
I'll take a 50mph boat ride with some honeys, a few cold beers & have the music going, rather then ride a jet ski. wink :D You think it's bad on one of thoes big sitdowns just try it on a stand up. I've held 50 MPH on a stand up and it was rough. It was fun but boy did I have to keep my flow together. I was using all my motocross whoop strategies to keep going. Everyone else was tired after about 4 hours of it and I kept going till I ran out of gas, stopped to refill and went back at it! What can I say... I'm a RIVER RAT!!!!!

buck183
07-01-2003, 05:30 PM
mbrown2...some of the fastest in production right now are the GPR1300, Kawi STXR, and the Kawi Ultra. These boats are all running in the 65 mph range give or take 1-2 mph. The Honda is supposed to be the fastest 4 stroke available. Low 60mph range. I've heard a lot of good about them.
phat kat....believe it or not, Sea Doo is actually at the lower end of the top speed spectrum between all the manufacturers. The XP is a great rough water boat, but is more like a 60 mph boat. By the way, I would like to see some of those 72 mph production craft you're talking about. Don't guess I've seen them myself. Like I said, it takes BIG $$$$ to get watercraft to run in the 75 mph range...more than you realize.
Buck

Rod-64
07-01-2003, 05:48 PM
My Yamaha Waverunner XLT 1200 is 6 mos old...according to the salesman...who, naturally, was full of shit, said it would go high 60's....well, trimmed just right on flat water, I can get to 61 even. And since those speedos aren't the most accurate, I'm guessing high 50's. I went back to the dealer and the mechanic said if I want more top-end figure 1000 bucks per mph....60 is fine for me. :D When I break down and buy a gps, it would be interesting to see the top speed on that and my boat.

green with envy
07-01-2003, 05:51 PM
I have 2 sea doo gtx di three seaters. They both run 67mph to 68mph stock out of the crate. I agree with the earlier post the liability sucks. I took them off the boat twice for my self to ride. Other people always want to ride.
So I am selling them now if anyone is interested.
Hey just wanted to say this is not radar its off speedo.
[ July 01, 2003, 06:53 PM: Message edited by: green with envy ]

TCHB
07-01-2003, 08:47 PM
I just tested a friends new Honda Turbo 4 Cycle ski and hit 68MPH on the speedo. When the turbo kicks in you better hold on, it will put you back in the seat. It is quiet and great on gas.

Boatcop
07-01-2003, 08:56 PM
A few years ago the Coast Guard was looking at stricter standards and regulations for PWCs. In the last 10 years, or so, the number and severity of injuries sustained in PWC crashes has been consistantly rising.
Across the nation, PWCs make up about 20-25% of registered watercraft, but are involved in about 65%-70% of the crashes.
About 85% of PWC crashes result in moderate to serious injury, while only about 15% of regular "boat" crashes result in injury.
The PWC industry (PWIA) agreed to self regulate, and since about 1998, no production model PWC (read "out of the box") can exceed 65 MPH.
Of course, the dealers also sell aftermarket, bolt on accessories to enhance performance, but for bone stock models, 65 is the max speed they'll produce.
This is not a federal regualtion, but an self imposed limit by the PWIA to keep the Coast Guard from declaring them "an inherently unsafe vessel".

buck183
07-01-2003, 09:17 PM
I think that you guys will be REALLY surprised to see GPS numbers on your speeds. 67-68 out of those 3 seaters is about 8-10 mph high. 68 out of the 4 stroke is off about the same.
Buck

Phat_Kat
07-02-2003, 09:55 AM
buck183:
mbrown2...some of the fastest in production right now are the GPR1300, Kawi STXR, and the Kawi Ultra. These boats are all running in the 65 mph range give or take 1-2 mph. The Honda is supposed to be the fastest 4 stroke available. Low 60mph range. I've heard a lot of good about them.
phat kat....believe it or not, Sea Doo is actually at the lower end of the top speed spectrum between all the manufacturers. The XP is a great rough water boat, but is more like a 60 mph boat. By the way, I would like to see some of those 72 mph production craft you're talking about. Don't guess I've seen them myself. Like I said, it takes BIG $$$$ to get watercraft to run in the 75 mph range...more than you realize.
Buck you're probably right, That radar gun probably is ready for the trash seeing as it's a few years old. The #'s sounded high to me and I made them try it about 10 times per ski but the range came out the same except for 1 or 2 times per ski it would register around mid 60's depending on the ski. My friend and I have been considering getting a laser gun because radar guns aren't the most reliable. I'm not pulling back but I am willing to say that that radar gun is kinda shitty.

Freak
07-02-2003, 10:47 AM
This one looks interesting. Supercharged 185hp. http://www.seadoo.com/docs/310/33_US.htm but i'm a Riva Yamaha man.

beached 1
07-02-2003, 10:49 AM
Never trust those speedos. I've passed many 65+ mph sitdowns with my 61 mph stand up.
http://beached1.homestead.com/files/DCP_1036.JPG
[ July 02, 2003, 11:50 AM: Message edited by: beached 1 ]

green with envy
07-02-2003, 06:20 PM
Just for shits and giggles I will Radar mine this weekend and let you guys know...

buck183
07-02-2003, 07:58 PM
beached 1:
Never trust those speedos. I've passed many 65+ mph sitdowns with my 61 mph stand up.
http://beached1.homestead.com/files/DCP_1036.JPG NOW THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT!!!!!
A man after my own heart. I'm gonna guess a full superstock? Looks nice. I'll spend 10 hours a weekend on my SuperJet and give 1/2 hour on a couch. Mine's a full limited. Still quick for the average rider, nothing compared to a good ol superstock though. Nice Ski!!!
Do you race?
Buck

Phat_Kat
07-03-2003, 08:42 AM
buck183:
beached 1:
Never trust those speedos. I've passed many 65+ mph sitdowns with my 61 mph stand up.
http://beached1.homestead.com/files/DCP_1036.JPG NOW THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT!!!!!
A man after my own heart. I'm gonna guess a full superstock? Looks nice. I'll spend 10 hours a weekend on my SuperJet and give 1/2 hour on a couch. Mine's a full limited. Still quick for the average rider, nothing compared to a good ol superstock though. Nice Ski!!!
Do you race?
Buck Buck where'd you get yours? I can't find any dealers that have them. What did it cost you?
Thanks

buck183
07-03-2003, 06:28 PM
I bought my ski in 96 when the new body style came out. Had it since. Bought a new one in 91 also. Stepped up to the 701 and new body style, haven't looked back.
I may be able to get you in contact with some people that might know where to find one if you are interested. I still have A LOT of contacts in the industry through my racing.
PS..my sis has one just like mine. Same mods and everything. The guys don't like it too much when she beats them on the race course. :)
Buck

ryantparks
07-03-2003, 08:32 PM
http://www.teamnosponsor.com/flyn_1.jpg

ryantparks
07-03-2003, 08:38 PM
Jesus, I am so bad on the computer it took me about a 1/2 hr to do that and I still couldnt even make it so the picture popped right up. Im a big jet ski fan ( I have 3) and enter some events like the picture shown but I now have the love of the Ultra I just bought. I now understand why so many boaters hate pwc owners (only irresponsible owners)!

Uplink
07-03-2003, 11:58 PM
Cool flyin pic Ryan, Here's some of me and the buds at the old Ventura Oil Piers many years ago, (before our boating days...) :) Mark
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/194marksurf.jpg
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/194Mark_VENTURA.jpg
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/194terryjump.jpg

ryantparks
07-04-2003, 07:53 AM
Nice launch on the bottom pic. I see we like the same type of hull.

Ms. XLGPP
07-04-2003, 11:11 AM
We have a demo GP1300 at the shop. When we took it to the lake we topped out at 67MPH.

efreak
07-05-2003, 02:03 PM
My single pipes 01 gpr 1200r runs 71.1mph on the gps.
The trippled piped ones run anywhere from 75-85 mph. Riva holds the pwc record @ 87.5 on a tripple piped yami gpr

Wet Dream
07-05-2003, 08:06 PM
mbrown2:
buck,
how quick are those new Honda Turbo's? I've heard about these Honda turbos, but have yet to see one run. Is Honda making the hull too? Aren't these the 1800cc's with turbos or is the 1200? Either way the friggin thing has got to scoot.

ryantparks
07-05-2003, 08:21 PM
They weigh too much!

beached 1
07-08-2003, 03:26 PM
buck183:
beached 1:
Never trust those speedos. I've passed many 65+ mph sitdowns with my 61 mph stand up.
http://beached1.homestead.com/files/DCP_1036.JPG NOW THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT!!!!!
A man after my own heart. I'm gonna guess a full superstock? Looks nice. I'll spend 10 hours a weekend on my SuperJet and give 1/2 hour on a couch. Mine's a full limited. Still quick for the average rider, nothing compared to a good ol superstock though. Nice Ski!!!
Do you race?
Buck Sorry, just got back from a long weekend.
Thanks for the kind words. Yes it's a Super Stock. Kurt Seebold motor (he used to tune for Mac & team Kawi) Novi carbs, ported cyl & punched out to a 760, Boisen reeds and stuffers, Riva spacer, riva girdled head, msd, limited dry pipe, and pump work by some really cool dude that all the chicks dig w/ Impros (http://www.impros.com) impeller. Trued hull with a Ruis ride plate and worx top loader w/stuffer. Blowsion side sponsons. UMI, Jettrim and paint by Blowsion.
Standups Rule!
[ July 08, 2003, 04:28 PM: Message edited by: beached 1 ]

buck183
07-08-2003, 04:53 PM
Standups Rule! [/QB][/QUOTE]
Couldn't agree more. Nothing like going to the lake and sitting on a couch all day huh? LOL
The reason so many people hate stand ups is the fact that most are too lazy to take the time and energy to learn how to ride one. The payoff far outweighs the investment though. Nothing like it.
Buck

beached 1
07-08-2003, 07:39 PM
I'm into sitdowns too. A 73 Spectra20 would be my favorite.
:D