Cobra --- The Facts [Archive]

CobraPB

02-28-2003, 07:00 PM

Hello everyone, my name is Jeff Bohn, President of Cobra Performance Boats. After receiving hundreds of calls and e-mails regarding Â“Foss75Â’sÂ” defamatory comments, I felt it was time to explain the actual facts. Last year was our best year in sales. Prior to building Cobra Boats, I was building and selling Ultra Boats. One of the reasons I have been so successful, building and selling Boats, my company sells over one hundred boats a year, it is by building a quality product and standing behind that product. We donÂ’t screw people over nor do we build an inferior boat. Additionally, we get a lot of business by word of mouth and that comes from excellent customer service, and also having an excellent product. Now to Mr. Van Fossen, I had previously been warned about him and his bad attitude towards me. Mr. Van Fossen purchased by written contract an Ultra Boat from me. The contract signed by Mr. Van Fossen is/was very thorough. It states everything the boat was equipped with; starting with gauges, hatch, ski locker, ice chest, bimini top, stereo brand, speakers, trailer, diverter, and so on. The motor and hp and the pump were in the contract along with make. You purchased a jet boat with a Barracuda pump. We even replaced the impellers with Dominator impellers by Marine Power because they work better. (A note to Mr. Van Fossen), if you disagree with this information, please review a copy of your contract as right below the motor brand and pump brand and you will see your initials acknowledging what you were purchasing. The contract is very thorough, it is to protect you and Ultra. ThatÂ’s why we have you initial in two different places and your signature at the bottom of the contract. Nobody ever misled you, and you knew exactly what you were buying. As for the amount of time it took to fix your boat, we work as quick as possible to obtain the finest results possible. As for the Â“hookÂ” on your boat, you threatened me with a lawsuit, if I didnÂ’t take it out. I advised against it, but you insisted. But just to make you happy, like I do with all my customers, I took the hook out just as you insisted (at no charge). That same day that you threatened me, you told me your boat only did 58 mph, now you say it goes 52mph. Which is it? Further, I had never once said that your boat had a performance problem, why should I, it was doing 58 mph.
It had been about three weeks since your last threat, when you came into my shop, again, and insisted on telling me about a bearing that had failed after three (3) years. That part was covered under warranty for only two years and if I didnÂ’t fix it, you would be taking me to court. Really not the right approach to get anything fixed by anyone. You also called another Dealer and threatened him with a lawsuit if they didnÂ’t do what you demanded.
There is a lot of hard work and hard knocks that goes with the boating business and after a while you get used to it. I have been in the boating business for 15 years. I was previously building and selling Ultra Boats. However, I had differences with another Ultra builder and seller and I decided to start building a new product with a new name, COBRA PERFORMANCE BOATS. However, six or more of the Ultra molds were mine and that is why I still use a couple of them. Since I have started Cobra Performance Boats I have purchased the property and over 20,000 sq. ft of building space. Very few boat sellers in southern California own their own facility. Cobra Performance Boats spends over $100,000.00 a year in new tooling and twice that in advertising each year. We donÂ’t plan on quitting at the end of the season or in two years or even in twenty years. Cobra Performance Boats is here to stay and we will continue to build the best boat possible. We stand behind our product whether it is a Cobra or an Ultra (that we built).
I am offended by some of the comments, as those people who stated negative information about me and my company, could not have possibly met me or come to my shop. We have one of the nicest and largest fully stocked showrooms in the industry. We would be more than happy to give anyone a tour.
Further, Â“SandblastedÂ”, IÂ’m sorry our sales staff did not bombard you when you came to our booth at the LA Boat Show, but we try not to pressure our customers. (I insist on that quality) However, if there were any questions that we didnÂ’t answer for you at the boat show, I invite you to come in and see me personally and that goes for anyone who reads this.
Lastly, Mr. Van Fossen, if you are so unhappy with your boat and me, please sell your boat and purchase another make, as I have bent over backwards for you, only to have you say bad things about me and my company. Hey, itÂ’s time to grow up and move on with your life.

sandblasted

02-28-2003, 07:15 PM

I appreciate you coming on here and addressing some of the accusations against your company. It sounds like you read every note posted. If you did then you know that I at no time slammed your product or you personally.
In fact I said "Cobra boats looked as well made as any other custom boat".
As far as being bombarded by your saleman, that certainly is not what I expect from a salesman. but i don't expect them to ignore me either while they chit chat on their cell phone...maybe thats just my hangup.
My 1st impression of your salepeople was not favorable and like I said, if I'm going to spend $40,000- $50,000 on a new boat then I'll spend it with someone that has the time to talk to me.
What ever issue you have with Foss are between you , him and your lawyers...Good luck.

DaytonaU

02-28-2003, 07:15 PM

ITS ABOUT TIME YOU POST YOUR SIDE OF THE STORY. MAYBE THE KNOW IT ALLS WILL SHUT THE F**K UP , BUT I DONT THINK SO..

jetterw454

02-28-2003, 07:45 PM

I have full support for cobra performance boats. I purchased one of cobra's first boat when they switched over. It was a 21 ft jet, and I got a great deal, and have never had a single problem with it. As a matter of fact, they went through every single piece of the boat, and the contract. I just wish the salesman that did the deal was still there, but the rest of the team is still there.

syke-o

02-28-2003, 07:51 PM

i agree... its good for the other side of the storey to be heard as well..

Jbb

02-28-2003, 07:54 PM

Welcome to the boards CobraPB....It is nice to hear ...the other side of the story on occasion!

rivercrazy

02-28-2003, 08:59 PM

Welcome to the boards. Stick around. Its always good to get the perspective of a few builders.
As for Foss, Iwell, the only posts he has made on the board are single purpose. To bash Cobra over and over again. There are other things to talk about on occasion

beyondhelpin

02-28-2003, 09:09 PM

Cobra
I commend you for coming out and telling you side of the story. Maybe with both sides we will get the total picture.

bordsmnj

03-01-2003, 10:51 AM

HEY, that wasn't bill van fossen from Hemet was it?? i worked with that guy i few years ago. just curious i have no opinion on him to share.
Right on cobra for taking the time to come here and straighten things up.Shot yuh a five :D

mbrown2

03-01-2003, 12:29 PM

Jeff, it shows a lot for you to come on here and give your side. Your boats looked nice at the boat show, and I have known folks with Cobra's and have nothing but good things to say about your boats. No builder is going make everyone happy; hopefully if Foss is that dissapointed with the boat, he will get another brand.

PlayTime

03-01-2003, 02:41 PM

Good to hear Cobra's side. I saw them at the boat show and had a chance to talk to the salesman. Seems like a nice boat. Just my two cents.

shockwaveharry

03-01-2003, 02:59 PM

Good job Jeff! I'm glad you finally spoke up. I boat with 5 families on the River that own your boats and they've allways said great things about you. Keep up the good work!

Rexone

03-01-2003, 03:29 PM

Welcome to the forum Jeff. Hopefully you will continue to post here.
Like I stated in a post on another thread, there are 2 sides to "every" story. It's good that everyone now has the opportunity to gain insight into the other side. I also had stated that generally when a boat manufacturer is mistreating people we as a hardware manufacturer hear about it (the old bad news travels fast deal). I haven't been hearing any of it with regards to Cobra. Just my .02. My suggestion is that anyone entertaining a new boat purchase go in and see Jeff and take him up on his offer for a tour of the shop and make your own decisions based on the outcome of that vs what you've read on the other threads. Seems there's a couple guys saying they've had bad experiences and several saying just the opposite. Personally I would become educated and familiar with any boat company I was thinking of buying a boat from, tour their facility, etc. before making any kind of purchase. Common sense I think.
By the way Jeff your boats are looking very nice these days...was in your booth at the show on a weekday when you weren't there. Nice work.

unleashed

03-01-2003, 04:14 PM

I gotta give it up to a mfg. that has the balls to post on these boards and stand up for their product. I think alot of mfg's dodge the boards due to legalities. Goodluck with your company. My wife loved the looks of your boats. Seemed your booth was very crowded at the boat show and the product looked nice. Hope you and Foss can hash things out.
Deano
Unleashedclothing (http://www.unleashedclothing.com) devil

mike37

03-01-2003, 05:14 PM

Right on cobra for taking the time to come here and straighten things up.Ill give you a five to

BALLSDEEP

03-01-2003, 06:33 PM

Jeff great response, glad to hear your side of the story... I bought a boat from you in '98, it was a 22' Ultra Stealth. It was a great boat, and you always took care of me. All right, now were is Foss75, we need him on here. This should be entertaining!

Wet Dream

03-01-2003, 07:27 PM

I think its great that Cobra found this board and posted his side of this dilemma. I've read all the other posts on this topic and its unfortunate that there are a lot of so called "boaters" on this board that immediately jumped on Foss' bullshit bandwagon without knowing the other side. Foss has it out for Cobra since the beginning and appearently doesn't understand that shit happens and CPB doesn't manufacture the trailer components, including the lights. I believe in our right to free speech whole heartedly, but to slander a company's reputation like this is wrong. Since this topic began a few weeks ago, I have yet to read somones elses displeasure in CPB, unless I skipped over it. And if I remember correctly it seems that one of the first people to question Foss, he snapped back pretty hard. Where are you now Foss?? Maybe he's looking over his homeowners policy.

superdave013

03-01-2003, 09:36 PM

Wet Dream:
I think its great that Cobra found this board and posted his side of this dilemma. I've read all the other posts on this topic and its unfortunate that there are a lot of so called "boaters" on this board that immediately jumped on Foss' bullshit bandwagon without knowing the other side. Foss has it out for Cobra since the beginning and appearently doesn't understand that shit happens and CPB doesn't manufacture the trailer components, including the lights. I believe in our right to free speech whole heartedly, but to slander a company's reputation like this is wrong. Since this topic began a few weeks ago, I have yet to read somones elses displeasure in CPB, unless I skipped over it. And if I remember correctly it seems that one of the first people to question Foss, he snapped back pretty hard. Where are you now Foss?? Maybe he's looking over his homeowners policy. CobraPB, welcome and I hope you stick around.
Foss's bandwagon don't look as good as this one! :D
http://www.***boat.net/photoreport/43/94.jpg

dcb 26 machman

03-02-2003, 10:01 PM

I Totally agrre with you jeff! I own my own company and there is no way to please everyone!There is always that one customer that is given everything but expects more!!Then they have the cowardness to come on the boards and bad mouth these companys!
Keep up the good work.

JetBoatRich

03-03-2003, 04:16 AM

Nice going Jeff, I like your response and hearing your side. Customers can be tough to deal with, we never hear from yours again, at least FOSS :D
[ March 03, 2003, 06:51 AM: Message edited by: JetBoatRich ]

THOR

03-03-2003, 07:14 AM

CobraPB,
It takes huge balls to come on here and defend your own business. Congrats and nice looking boats BTW. Way to show some ass and tell your side. Nice job.

superV

03-03-2003, 08:33 AM

Good Job! Glad to see you step up to the plate...
http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de/biggthumpup.gif
http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de/biggthumpup.gif

THOR

03-03-2003, 09:03 AM

RiverDave:
CobraPB, haven't you posted on these boards in that past?
I commend you for atleast standing up and explaining your side of the story.
Did you actually threaten to sue this guy for posting his story on here?
RD River "stirring the pot" Dave ???

BENZEEN

03-03-2003, 09:54 AM

Jeff,
It is good to hear your side. A friend of mine was on the boards reading Foss's complaint, and was steering away from purchasing from you. He is fond of your 21 Viper, but was scared away. Luckily he has not purchased his boat. I will direct him to your response.
Good Luck,
vik

HavasuDreamin'

03-03-2003, 10:44 AM

Two thumbs up for jumping in and setting the record straight. Your product looks very nice, and it is good to know you stand behind your product.

Back To Havasu

03-03-2003, 11:14 AM

I too congratulate you Jeff for coming on these boards to air your side. I also agree that people who threaten litigation every other minute, to try to bully someone are totally uninformed. I am a California attorney who has litigated cases for 30 years and that has taught me that litigation is a last resort only, and shouldn't be threatened. Litigation is an expensive, slow, ineffective, cumbersome, worrisome tool whose only winner is generally the attornies handling the case. Just my $.02. :cool:

Waldo

03-03-2003, 03:28 PM

Jeff, I posted a thread here a few weeks ago about buying either a Cobra or Carrera. I had a pretty good line on a used Carrera. There were some good and not so good things said about your boats.
I then went to the boat show and talked with a person in your booth. He didn't even work for you he said but he was a satisfied customer and wanted to help out. He was very helpful, answered all of my questions the best he could and the boats at the show looked very well built.
The quality looks good and the price seems right for many people. Even though I didn't purchase one of your boats, it shows a lot that one of your existing customers is helping to represent your product. Thanks for coming on the board and sharing your side of this on going thing!
P.S. I believe my next boat will be your 23 footer...that sucker was nice!

Hallett19

03-03-2003, 03:41 PM

doesnt look like he's coming back .....

THOR

03-03-2003, 05:16 PM

Hell no he's not coming back. RD is badgering him

Mandelon

03-03-2003, 07:06 PM

You ever feel like you're gettin played? :confused:

shockwaveharry

03-04-2003, 06:42 AM

fixit1002:
The boat builder you guys are talking about was omega ...My apologies to Team Hawaiian, I stand corrected.

THOR

03-04-2003, 07:39 AM

I probably am, but I have been on the playing end a few times in here so it is good fun.

hot_diggity_dog

03-04-2003, 07:49 AM

Well Well, sleeping
Two sides to every story. :rolleyes:
It all sucks in my opinion yuk
It's a lose lose for both argue
If it doesn't get resolved and this problem doesn't go away, then I see more bad press for Cobra in the future, no matter how good their boats are. smile_sp
No one needs all of the extra baggage when spending that kind of money.
HDD :cool:

bordsmnj

03-04-2003, 09:03 AM

poof!

OC-PARTYCAT

03-04-2003, 09:09 AM

RD, your gonna make everyones legs sore. They jump from one bandwagon to the next daily. I was going to post yesterday about the ten things Foss has wrong with his boat, and ask Cobra what he did to fix em. Im not sticking up for Foss or Cobra but, it looks kinda like Foss ran out of options, so he came here and expressed "his opinion" about Cobra. Maybe Foss is being a pain in the ass....thats the price you pay when you open up a business. :)

shockwavebd

03-04-2003, 09:41 AM

RiverDave:
THOR:
Hell no he's not coming back. RD is badgering him What Badgering? I just asked a simple question..
IN MY OPINION (God knows I don't want to recieve one of those letters)
I thought it was kinda ironic that people are jumping on this guys bandwagon JUST becuase he made a post. Then talking about how stupid it is to threaten litigation over stupid shit..
All the while forgetting that our Pal over here threatened litigation for comments made on a message board. (Stupid Shit??)
On a side note, I know all about this guy, and he ain't the sweet old boat builder you think he is. Ethics, isn't even in this guys vocabulary.
Side Note #2, This ISN'T the first time he's posted on these boards. He came on here once before running his mouth and telling the facts (yeah right..) yet when asked one simple question by another manufacturer he vanished like a fart in the wind.
So with that I'll stick to my guns, and not change my opinion of HIM or His chopper gun specials. (Not really chopper gun'd boats)
What is happening right now is NO different then what happened about a year ago. Ask him ANY QUESTION (other then one blowing smoke up his ass about how his Ultra knock off's are bitchen) and the guy'll vanish ***** in church come Sunday.
RD Well said dave.I didn't get it ether argue

Back To Havasu

03-04-2003, 09:45 AM

My comments above regarding threatening litigation apply equally to Jeff and his customers. jawdrop

THOR

03-04-2003, 10:48 AM

bordsmnj

03-04-2003, 11:22 AM

o.k. my popcorn's gone stale. :rolleyes:

THOR

03-04-2003, 12:06 PM

Yeh I like them too....

bigq

03-04-2003, 12:18 PM

THOR

03-04-2003, 12:29 PM

Pretty easy for a back seat driver to call someone ( I think me) a kiss ass.

Back To Havasu

03-04-2003, 02:49 PM

RD...thanks. This is turning out to be the classic "he said, she said," who do you believe...CobraPB or some of his customers. My point is that neither side should attempt to coerce anyone else from voicing an honest opinion on these boards using the Ch.....Sh..method of threatening litigation. argue

bigq

03-04-2003, 04:33 PM

THOR:
Pretty easy for a back seat driver to call someone ( I think me) a kiss ass. I was just pokin fun at the whole thread, don't get your panties in wad, it wasn't directed personally. wink

shockwaveharry

03-04-2003, 06:18 PM

riodog:
Rd, isn't this the same guy that sold a boat on consignment out from under a customer about a year or two ago and then declared bankruptcy? They didn't get their money and he didn't pay off the loan and they wound up with the payment and no boat. I seem to remember they asked about where to buy some type of "unregistered" restitution.
Riodog idea What's up Dog?
I remember that one... Sue me if I'm wrong wink but I believe it was Hawaiian or Team Hawaiian in that thread, it's been a while...

Foss75

03-04-2003, 07:03 PM

I know everyone has been waiting for this one. I was out of town. I am glad to finally hear from Jeff. This is the first opportunity I have had to hear anything about what he thinks.
Jeff,
I find it very hard to believe that you do not think that you or your salesmen mislead me. You have mislead me from day one. You made false promisesand when I confronted you about it, you would not back it up. You have admitted to me that I was mislead when you told me that your salesmen call all diverters, Place Diverters, when they actually are not. To begin with, I have never disputed what was written on the contract. I have posted several times stating that. I knew what I was buying, but I was mislead from day one. I was told by two of your salesmen and by you personally that I should expect certain things out of my boat and if I did not see this, then I should let you know. I did let you know from the very beginning that I was having problems with the performance of my boat. You and your salesmen told me if I upgraded the motor to the 390hp 454, then I would be in the low to mid 60's. Now, whether that is a load of crap or not, you told me that is what I would get and that is what I expected. When this all began in July-August of 2000, I was already expressing my concerns with the performance of the boat. I started doing a lot of research and found out that I should check several things on the boat before I spoke with you. One of the topics that kept coming up at the boat show and in conversations with very well-known service shops was to check if I had a "hook". After placing a six-foot straight edge on the bottom of the boat I found that I could fit my hand in between the straight edge and the boat's hull. When I asked you about this, you said: Yep, it looks like it's got a pretty good hook. When I asked you what I should do about it, you said: we could fix it, but it's gonna be major pain. I asked you at that time if this would fix my performance problems and you told me that without a doubt, it would. Yes, you fixed the "hook" at no cost to me, but it did not fix the problem. At the same time I was concerned with the performance of the diverter. I asked you to fix the diverter pump because it was leaking fluid all over the back of the transom. You replaced it with an identical pump that did not work at all and still leaked fluid all over the back of the transom. I brought the boat back to you. You siliconed the pump shut. Now it didn't leak, but I could not check fluid levels or ever fill the fluid if the need arose. Finally, I was forced to do research on my own again. I find out that the diverter pump in my boat was a piece of shit and I should go with a Bennett Pump. I asked you about this and you told me I had to pay for it. I asked why I should pay for a new pump when the boat is under warranty and I still don't have a pump that works. You finally put a Bennett Pump in the boat and I have had no problems since. In the meantime, I am driving my boat in the Topock Gorge and all of a sudden my steering goes out. I find out that the tiller arm has completely broken in half. Now, I have never heard of a tiller arm breaking on a boat that was only 1 1/2 years old. Your solution for that was to replace it, but with one that did not fit. Instead of putting one on that fit, you ground out a piece on the new tiller arm to give it full range of motion. I can only imagine what this has done to the integrity of the new tiller arm. Around this time, I began wondering what kind of operation you were running and what kind of business man you were because I was having nothing but problems. You refused to speak with me and never returned any of my phone calls. I began speaking with other boat builders and several other people in the "business" and it seemed you had quite the reputation among your peers. This made me ever more frustrated because not only was I not getting anything from you, now Iwas hearing that I would probably never get anything from you.
As for the bearing, it went out after 2 years and 3 months, not three years. It was just out of the warranty window and I knew that. You have had the boat for more than three months in you shop for repairs. I know because I have checked all of the drop-off and pick-up dates on you service write-ups. When I asked you about it, you ignored me and told me to sue you.
If you look back at the posts I have written, it all began as trying to information on some of the performance concerns I was having. My first posts, I believe, were in the Spring of 2002 and they were general questions, not even directed at you. As time progressed and you continued to give me the runaround, the posts became directed toward you and your company to warn them of the problems that I have had. I was under the impression that this is what these forums are all about. Informing other buyers. Nothing I have ever said is a lie and I have tried several times to resolve each of these issues with you, only to be given the runaround.
I'm very curious as to the "other" builder I called up and threatened.
I have tried to get these issues, as well as numerous other issues that I have posted topics on before, resolved only without success. I now have a $35,000 boat that I cannot drive because it is always either broken or in for service.
If you feel that you have bent over backwards for me, then so be it. I don't think so. As for the threat of suing me for these posts, I think it is you that needs to "grow up". I wish it didn't have to go this far.
[ March 04, 2003, 07:30 PM: Message edited by: Foss75 ]

sandblasted

03-04-2003, 07:18 PM

My opinion still stands. When I go to move up to another boat Cobra won't be on my list. Not because I jumped on Foss' (where is he anyway?)bandwagon but because of my own 1st impression of them at this years L.A.boat show...you know what they say about making a good 1st impression? Well Cobra didn't, at least not with me...but that's just my opinion.. :D

Jordy

03-04-2003, 07:20 PM

sandblasted:
Foss' (where is he anyway?) Check the post right before yours. :D

rvrkaosI

03-04-2003, 07:53 PM

Just my opinion, I think you should sell the boat. No boat is worth any headaches, and life is too short. My opinion anyways..... wink

sandblasted

03-04-2003, 07:57 PM

jordanpaulk:
sandblasted:
Foss' (where is he anyway?) Check the post right before yours. :D Damn, he must of posted his while I was typing my up...That's the last time I get on the phone in mid post and then come back 10 minutes later and hit "add reply"! :D

77charger

03-04-2003, 07:57 PM

well now i have heard bith sides,But foss 75s comments do back up other stories that i have heard about cust service.I think the cobras are a nice boat and have nice color schemes and for a good price but i'd rather pay more for good cust service.

JetBoatRich

03-04-2003, 08:06 PM

WOW this is getting to deep :confused: you guys need to get this settled and keep everyone else out of it. frown

fixit1002

03-04-2003, 09:03 PM

The boat builder you guys are talking about was omega i did much research while trying to buy a boat almosat lost my money i got it back but only after sending my whole family to the guys shop in a camper fully contained for days boat builders all have bad reps they come and go and come back again

MOPAR2YA

03-04-2003, 11:55 PM

California has some very "customer favored" lemon laws. I'm in the automotive business and deal with them(in what seems on a every day basis.)
California law states that anything that is repaired twice(similar repair that is) for safety concerns fall under a (lemon) law. Anything repaired three times reflects the same way. I'd be willing to bet, that boats should fall under this category.
A call to the BBB(Better Business Bureau)or the Dept. of Consumer Affairs might help on this.
BTW, Foss, sorry for all the headaches you've encountered and the best of luck frown

Foss75

03-06-2003, 04:19 PM

Jeff,
Did you or did you not tell me that...
1. Barracuda Jets are just as good as Dominator Jets?
2. Robert and Ken call all diverters, Place Diverters?
3. if I upgraded the motor, I should be in the low to mid 60's?
4. I should sue you because you were not willing to help me?
I now know that you read these on a regular basis, so I am just curious because you have not responded to my post from a couple days ago. I was just wondering if you still thought I was lying about anything. It is pretty bold to call someone a lier and then back it up. Are you going to try and save face now that I have laid it all out there now! We'll see who the lier is now.

***boat

03-06-2003, 04:52 PM

This topic has run it's useful course. You can finish this up in court or in private if you have to, but this has been discussed on the boards long enough.
- ***boat.com admin