60 Minutes

[Seadog]

Last night LS did a hatchet job on the car makers. Trotting out environuts and an engineer that thinks that the automakers could create much better trucks and SUVs by using exotic materials and redesigning the motors and transmissions.
This is pretty much nonsense to me. I agree that we should try and get better gas mileage, but the environuts think that the government and car makers should dictate what we buy. The engineer says that it would only cost $1400 per vehicle. When an engineer says that, it is more like $5500. That was estimated to save $500/yr in fuel costs. The price of vehicles is dear now and they want to force adding several thousands of dollars of untried technology and parts onto that? What is ridiculous is that for that money you are better off with a diesel and still have the power needed to pull a boat.
I personally think that the average person does not need a big SUV or pickup. I see a lot of fools in Suburbans or Hummers that have never towed or hauled anything other that a few bags of groceries. The catch is that it is their right and their money.
Can you imagine a saleman trying to promote a new SUV? "It gets 30 mpg and is real environmental friendly. It has flashing lights that let the small cars see it. It has 360 degree radar with override so that you cannot hit a small car. It will only tow 1000 lbs at highway speeds, but will tow 7000 lbs at 20 mph, unless you go up a 5% slope."

[Catmando]

There is a very simple solution; raise the CAFE standards. And KEEP raising them until the carmakers have to inprove technology. That's the only way mileage and emissions will improve.

[ROZ]

Seadog:
The price of vehicles is dear now and they want to force adding several thousands of dollars of untried technology and parts onto that? That's how we ended up with MTBE in our gas......

[ROZ]

Catmando:
There is a very simple solution; raise the CAFE standards. And KEEP raising them until the carmakers have to inprove technology. That's the only way mileage and emissions will improve. maybe we should all ride bikes.... :rolleyes:

[Dave C]

Come on now. We have been increasing clean air standards, albeit just gradually.
Think about it, 30 years. All cars were gross polluters. Now cars and SUVS have much cleaner emmissions.
We will be OK as long as we progress forward as we have been.
Come to California, certified SULEV vehicles must meet rigid clean air standards. Now there a lot of models (including one mercruiser boat model) that meets these standards.
BTW, did you know your gus guzzler gets hit with a federal gas guzzling tax?

[Dave C]

Lets get real. the only way to get zero emissions is to not drive your car, even a clean one.
So we see where this is going.
If someone wants to drive a gas-guzzler then they should have to pay for the gas (& $0.50 in taxes) and not complain about the price. Its their decision and they should have freedom to do so, why should we stop them?
[ October 13, 2003, 04:11 PM: Message edited by: Dave C ]

[058]

Catmando:
There is a very simple solution; raise the CAFE standards. And KEEP raising them until the carmakers have to inprove technology. That's the only way mileage and emissions will improve. Spoken like a true left wing wacko liberal...make the govt. mandate what the auto mfgs do. Then they can raise the price of vehicles until only the top 1% money earners can afford. Great way to get us peons into mass transit, thats totally reliable and something we all can count on, right?
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Catmando]

The first segment was interesting too. Richard Scrushy owns the 40' Monopoly Skater.
[ October 13, 2003, 08:04 PM: Message edited by: Catmando ]

[MagicMtnDan]

That segment on 60 minutes started out about America's dependence on foreign oil and then moved into how SUVs use so much gas. Even though all these liberals talk $hit about SUVs, this is NOT about SUVs.
What I drive and how much gas I use is MY own business! Since when does anyone have the right to tell me I should/should not be driving, whether it's a moped or a 2,000HP funny car?!
My use of gasoline has nothing to do with this country's dependence on foreign oil. I repeat, My use of gasoline has nothing to do with this country's dependence on foreign oil. How can I say that? Easy. I PAY for the gas (and everything else I/we consume). If I can afford to pay for it and it's available then I can buy it (supply and demand).
If this country wants to have a sensible oil/energy policy and reduce its dependence on foreign oil (something I think would be very good since then we could hammer countries like Saudi Arabia, etc. for their support of terrorism) then it should get more oil here and even raise the tax on oil (I am NOT supporting that) like Europe and the rest of the world does. High gas taxes will reduce the number of SUVs, reduce dependence on foreign oil and kill our auto industry.
The government is responsible for an energy policy that helps American citizens. If they want the oil companies to drill for more expensive oil here than buy it at lower prices from over there (OPEC) then they'll make that policy.
In the meantime, all you anti-SUV, anti-combustion engine anything, hypocritical a$$holes can suck the tailpipe on my 8.1L big block.
[ October 14, 2003, 10:07 AM: Message edited by: MagicMtnDan ]

[Dr. Eagle]

Catmando:
There is a very simple solution; raise the CAFE standards. And KEEP raising them until the carmakers have to inprove technology. That's the only way mileage and emissions will improve. Simple...geeeeeze you are a Liberal Whacko of the first degree!!!!!!!!!
I for one do not see the Peoples Auto Distribution Bureau in my future, if it comes to that look for The American Revolution II the sequel. What the government needs to do is get the hell out of our lives and quit picking our pockets!!!! devil By the way its "Improve"

[Dr. Eagle]

MagicMtnDan:
In the meantime, all you anti-SUV, anti-combustion engine anything, hypocritical a$$holes can suck the tailpipe on my 8.1L big block. Ditto...you can add my 8.1L Big Block to the tailpipe suckfest.
And also one of the reasons we IMPORT so much is that the frigging oil companies have to get special dispensation from about 400 agencies to drill a new friggin well. Much of the known reserves cannot be tapped because of commie enviro nazi red tape. If we don't drill, we won't spoil the environment ...poppycock! We should be poking holes everywhere we friggin can to produce as much oil from our OWN RESERVES as we can. Just as California used to supply about 2/3 of our own oil...now down to about 20% as no new reserves are being developed and older ones expire.

[Dr. Eagle]

Oh and isn't 60 minutes on CBS (commie broadcasting system)?

[CAHotRodBoy]

Catmando:
There is a very simple solution; raise the CAFE standards. And KEEP raising them until the carmakers have to inprove technology. That's the only way mileage and emissions will improve. So you pull your boat with a Honda civic, right? Oh, and you must have removed the gas guzzling big block and installed a mast and a big sail too!?! :D :D :D
How can you complain about gas usage and own and operate a power boat?!? If you truely wanted to decrease US fuel consumption you would get rid of the power boat and own a blow boat that you keep in the water (no towing).
Unless you use your boat for commuting it is a completely frivolent device and you are contributing to the problem. But maybe I shouldn't be saying this. Next thing you know, you will start lobbying to have power boats outlawed! eek!

[HOSS]

I looked for the Honda Civic thread in Tow Vehicles and couldn`t find it. But it pretty much sums it up. :D

[Dr. Eagle]

Problem is, there are people that feel like this. My brother is a leftie and he thinks that EVERYONE should be driving a HYBRID car just like HE DOES. He wants the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT to tell EVERYONE what they are going to drive. We just had a very heated discussion last week and I told him if that's the way he feels...fine, obviously he has made his mind up and I am not changing it.
Worse still he BELIEVES that these CAPITALIST CORPORATIONS are PLOTTING to keep us driving gas guzzling SUVs. He said the dealer told them that they don't make much margin on the HYBRID.
That just fueled the flames...now he is SURE it is the CAPITALIST CORPORATIONS until I pointed out that the car companies make about the same margin on any ECONOMY car. SUVs are modern day luxury cars. The car companies make more money on them so certainly they are interested in selling more of them.
It is MARKET DRIVEN, not a CAPITALIST PLOT. Geeeezzzze where do people come up with this crap?????
He is about as far left as anyone other than my sister, who should be flying a red banner over her house as far as I am concerned. Like I told them both, think what you want but, Rest assured that there are 10 (OK maybe 5) people that do not feel that way for every 1 that does. As long as that is the case, we will be able to maintain our lifestyle. Soon as the socialist whackos make serious inroads like they have in California...freedom will disappear.
argue :confused: :D :D

[SchellSchock]

I think the environuts plan is to force the abolishment of SUV's followed by boats,PWC's etc, then that would lead to more support for the draining of Powell and meade etc. What a bunch of f**ken dumb asses. Problem is they are makining inroads so who knows where it is going to end

[gnarley]

Well as long as the BIG 3 don’t have to change they won’t! They didn’t want to change when those little Japanese cars showed up in the 60’s & 70’s & by the 80’s they were getting slammed by better quality & economy, and they cried foul. The competition forced the BIG 3 to build better cars that got better mileage & it has slowly increased but in the case of the big SUV’s has gone the other direction as of lately.
I am NO left wing liberal whacko but I think the CAFÉ standards should be raised to improve mileage, I think the BIG 3 can do it. I also think that the many thousands of SUV’s that are being driven around by owners who never have towed as much as a wagon behind one are helping to combine with the rest to use more fuel than should be.
Sure everyone has the right to drive what they want but if we drilled for more oil in the offshore areas & drivers of SUV grocery getters would drive something that was more fuel efficient maybe our oil reserves would be higher & the cost of fuel less! I’m not talking about those that really use them for towing or work, I’m talking about the people who use them for daily drivers and when combined with the all the others they are using more fuel & draining the reserves, which drives up cost.
Hell I am looking at buying a new tow rig next year & it ain’t going to be any Jap crap it will be Detroit iron :D (made in Mexico & Canada) but I want it to get the BEST mileage that is possible. Look at it this way, the better mileage all vehicles get the more that will be in the reserves which should drive prices down which makes it more affordable to tow & fill the boat!
Its supply and demand, if the reserves run low they raise the hell out of the price, so if you only had X amount of fuel to use what would you put it in? I bet most of you don’t remember gas rationing from the 70’s do you? It sucked! burningm I wasn’t a boater then but I could only imagine how much worse it could have been if we had SUV’s also. It was bad enough just trying to get gas to go to work I bet boating was pretty much non-existent during that time! IF they rationed gas again I bet SUV owners wouldn’t even think of driving them at 14-MPG average with a 30 gallon a week allotment and every car lot in America would be full of them.
ROZ:
Seadog:
The price of vehicles is dear now and they want to force adding several thousands of dollars of untried technology and parts onto that? That's how we ended up with MTBE in our gas...... Sorry you’re wrong, we ended up with MTBE to cut down on the pollutants, not to increase economy. Don’t get me started on the MTBE thing! That’s a whole other topic burningm

[Dr. Eagle]

Point well taken, most SUV drivers don't tow or haul much if anything but Kids to soccer. I never quite understood that.
As much as I hate the looks, you can't beat the utility of a minivan (no I don't own one (anymore at least)) for grocery getting and soccer hauling. And unless you live in the rockies or other cold snowy places...they don't need 4WD.
But I maintain that I will drive what the hell I want. New taxes or fees or insurance taxes or any of the other lefty driven gas guzzling social engineering ideas...them are fighting words.
Raise the CAFE standards reasonably...perhaps it is good to raise goals from time to time. Problem is who is deciding what is reasonable? How much is reasonable? Where is the science to support raising them? In other words does emerging technology support these higher goals without effecting driveablility, size, style, utility and so on? You may not be old enough to remember the cars we got stuck with in the late 70s and early 80s because the MARKET DEMANDED more fuel efficient cars. They were for the most part POS's. Gutless wonders that broke all the damn time because the auto makers had not gotten the bugs out.
Bottom line, I refuse to drive one of those damn SEWING MACHINES (HYBRID)!
Also point of note, Bush has proposed raising the cafe standard by 1.5 mpg as I recall.