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View Full Version : CASHCAR strikes again!!



HighRoller
06-24-2003, 10:03 PM
This is for all of you that love NASCAR.It seems that in 2004 the Winston Cup...err,I mean NEXTEL Cup cars will have two dates at California speedway.Good right?No,because the date they got was Memorial day weekend.In other words,NASCAR canned the Southern 500,a race that has been run for 50 years,so they could get a"larger TV market".How sad it is that NASCAR has totally and completely trashed its origins in the quest for more money.They spouted numerous reasons for the switch,none of them having anything to do with RACING.It was all about a larger audience,TV ratings,and making sure NBC had a prime time west coast date to make them happy with their BILLION dollar TV contract.Nevermond that the racing at Fontana is so boring it puts you to sleep.It's"all about pleasing our sponsors",so they say.This is proof that the France family will happily sell its soul in search for every last dollar.Now you can see why I have an extreme dislike for NASCAR and the negative effect they have on racing.Since when is racing about money?I know the realities of sponsor dollars and all that,but when it comes to all the priorities on NASCAR's list,racing is obviously at the bottom.It's all about the money.And to those who say I'm writing this because I'm jealous,yeah right.I've been involved in racing a long time.I can do the same thing any of those guys can do(drive a race car)without selling my soul to some big dollar sponsor.I hope one of these days these drivers will wake up and realize the pile of money has gotten so high it's obscured their view of the objective.Racing.

NorCal Gameshow
06-24-2003, 10:10 PM
it's happened in other sports,(not that it's right) why should racing be different? history is important, but if a driver says he won't drive they'll get another driver....

LUVNLIFE
06-25-2003, 03:57 AM
Yes, but tell that same thing to basketball, football and baseball players. They like to talk a line of crap that it's about the game but alot of it has to do with the dollar.

HOSS
06-25-2003, 05:18 AM
Hopefully all the drivers go on strike so I can get a seat! :p

rrrr
06-25-2003, 06:56 AM
I have no idea why so many people like NASCAR. Not trying to bash anyone's sports choices but the whole thing is becoming more and more like pro wrestling. Not only that, the on track decisions of the officials are inconsistent and show favoritism.
Their committment to safety is a joke. Don't even have a full time safety team, just use the local track guys, VFD, or whoever. Contrast this to the NHRA, CART, or the IRL. All highly trained pros, CART and the IRL have fully qualified doctors as part of the on track crew. When CART driver Alex Zanardi lost his legs in Germany two years ago, Dr. Steve Olvey and the crew saved his life. He had lost 70% of his blood, yet he's still with us today.
Allowing racing back to the line is gonna get someone killed. It also prevents the safety crews from approaching the accident scene. I forget who crashed the other day during happy hour, but it took over 30 seconds for the safety guys to get there because the whole field was going by. In the meantime the car was a burning inferno. If he had been unconscious it would have been ugly.
In the meantime, the overkill is everywhere. I saw a "3" sofa the other day. Jeez. Fox and NBC are losing their ass on the TV contract, so when it expires look for the fat ass Helton to announce that NASCAR is going to pay per view, they have already started the migration with the in car camera crap.
Try watching the IRL or CART. CART banned traction control so the racing has improved greatly, the drivers have to drive again. The IRL has kick ass oval racing. We are racing at Richmond International Raceway Saturday night, 3/4 mile track and the pole speed last year was 165 MPH; 40 MPH faster than the taxicabs. Check it out.

Phat_Kat
06-25-2003, 07:04 AM
It's just like motocross. Back in the day guys like malcom smith and the gang did it just because it was fun, not for money. Now it's "ricky rides for dunlop, you should too!" And now motocross has that stupid hat switching thing so they can pump as many companies as possible. Business sucks but it's life, so I guess life sucks too..... Hey that ain't a half bad quote. :D

big Doug
06-25-2003, 07:07 AM
rrrr:
I have no idea why so many people like NASCAR. Not trying to bash anyone's sports choices but the whole thing is becoming more and more like pro wrestling. Not only that, the on track decisions of the officials are inconsistent and show favoritism.
Their committment to safety is a joke. Don't even have a full time safety team, just use the local track guys, VFD, or whoever. Contrast this to the NHRA, CART, or the IRL. All highly trained pros, CART and the IRL have fully qualified doctors as part of the on track crew. When CART driver Alex Zanardi lost his legs in Germany two years ago, Dr. Steve Olvey and the crew saved his life. He had lost 70% of his blood, yet he's still with us today.
Allowing racing back to the line is gonna get someone killed. It also prevents the safety crews from approaching the accident scene. I forget who crashed the other day during happy hour, but it took over 30 seconds for the safety guys to get there because the whole field was going by. In the meantime the car was a burning inferno. If he had been unconscious it would have been ugly.
In the meantime, the overkill is everywhere. I saw a "3" sofa the other day. Jeez. Fox and NBC are losing their ass on the TV contract, so when it expires look for the fat ass Helton to announce that NASCAR is going to pay per view, they have already started the migration with the in car camera crap.
Try watching the IRL or CART. CART banned traction control so the racing has improved greatly, the drivers have to drive again. The IRL has kick ass oval racing. We are racing at Richmond International Raceway Saturday night, 3/4 mile track and the pole speed last year was 165 MPH; 40 MPH faster than the taxicabs. Check it out.

big Doug
06-25-2003, 07:25 AM
rrrr:
I have no idea why so many people like NASCAR. Not trying to bash anyone's sports choices but the whole thing is becoming more and more like pro wrestling. Not only that, the on track decisions of the officials are inconsistent and show favoritism.
Their committment to safety is a joke. Don't even have a full time safety team, just use the local track guys, VFD, or whoever. Contrast this to the NHRA, CART, or the IRL. All highly trained pros, CART and the IRL have fully qualified doctors as part of the on track crew. When CART driver Alex Zanardi lost his legs in Germany two years ago, Dr. Steve Olvey and the crew saved his life. He had lost 70% of his blood, yet he's still with us today.
Allowing racing back to the line is gonna get someone killed. It also prevents the safety crews from approaching the accident scene. I forget who crashed the other day during happy hour, but it took over 30 seconds for the safety guys to get there because the whole field was going by. In the meantime the car was a burning inferno. If he had been unconscious it would have been ugly.
In the meantime, the overkill is everywhere. I saw a "3" sofa the other day. Jeez. Fox and NBC are losing their ass on the TV contract, so when it expires look for the fat ass Helton to announce that NASCAR is going to pay per view, they have already started the migration with the in car camera crap.
Try watching the IRL or CART. CART banned traction control so the racing has improved greatly, the drivers have to drive again. The IRL has kick ass oval racing. We are racing at Richmond International Raceway Saturday night, 3/4 mile track and the pole speed last year was 165 MPH; 40 MPH faster than the taxicabs. Check it out. I like both, IRL and Nascar. But to bash Nascar and its safety is just wrong unless you have worked with the safety crew or was a driver. Nascar is continuing to improve safety all the time. Just because they lost one driver doesn't mean they are unsafe. I wish I could remember the busch driver that wrecked in practice. His car was tore in half and he walked away. I think that the drivers in Nascar are much safer. They have a lot more roll cage and protection than IRl. They do have some permanent safety crews that go to all the races. I am not bashing IRl! They both have a big following. Though Nascar only has 75 million fans. Have fun at richmond.

burbanite
06-25-2003, 07:31 AM
If you really want my opinion, Nascar will eat itself alive within a few short years........

rrrr
06-25-2003, 08:04 AM
big Doug:
I like both, IRL and Nascar. But to bash Nascar and its safety is just wrong unless you have worked with the safety crew or was a driver. Nascar is continuing to improve safety all the time. Just because they lost one driver doesn't mean they are unsafe. I wish I could remember the busch driver that wrecked in practice. His car was tore in half and he walked away. I think that the drivers in Nascar are much safer. They have a lot more roll cage and protection than IRl. They do have some permanent safety crews that go to all the races. I am not bashing IRl! They both have a big following. Though Nascar only has 75 million fans. Have fun at richmond. They only react to safety issues, and react slowly. When Kenny Irwin and Adam Petty were killed, nothing much was done to investigate the causes. Both of those drivers died after teams started building the front clip with .125 wall tubing instead of .090. No one considered the effect of putting a substantially more robust structure on the front of the car. But when Earnhardt died, the hoopla forced them to make an appearance of acting responsibly, and even that was a screwup. They managed to drag Bill Simpson through the mud, and he had personally told Earnhardt that the way his belts were installed was not right.
So it was either last year or this year that NASCAR finally required the use of data recorders so they could gather information about the G force experienced by the drivers in crashes, something CART and the IRL have done for years. They have no idea what forces killed those guys. A "hard hit" in the IRL is around 60-70 G's, think about 11,000 lbs. of force acting on your body in a few milliseconds. The IRL and Delphi have come up with a three axis accelerometer that is imbedded in the driver's radio earpieces, so when the driver crashes there is specific data about the G force loads on the driver's head; that's the kind of stuff that NASCAR has ignored for years. But hey, you can buy Ball Park franks, the official hot dog of NASCAR down at Von's.
Not only that, until recently most driver's seats were just aluminum with padding. In CART and IRL the seats are "poured" into a mold around the driver's body so it provides a complete energy absorbing structure supporting the entire torso. The seat assembly was the subject of literally years of testing.
Don't let that roll cage fool you. In certain types of crashes like G. Bodine's truck wreck at Daytona they are great. But for the most part the rigidity of the structure is far less capable of energy dissipation than a CART or Indycar. Think about the head injuries suffered by Ricky Craven and Steve Park. Remember too that open wheel cars are traveling at much greater speeds. Didja see that video of Mario Andretti's crash at Indy?
I'm not trying to argue about the merits of one car over the other, or if one series is better than the other. NASCAR has a huge fan base obviously, and even a casual fan knows the driver's names and faces.
My point should have been more clear; I have personally become completely disinterested with NASCAR because of issues regarding the quality of racing, the management of the series, and their tendency to overlook safety in the interest of "The Show". I know bazillions of people love it, but I just kinda got tired of it. I wonder if that won't be the case for more fans in the future.
[ June 25, 2003, 09:04 AM: Message edited by: rrrr ]

fear the turtle
06-25-2003, 08:09 AM
Recently....
Dale Earnhardt
Adam Petty
Kenny Irwin
Then again, maybe those 3 could of been prevented if they would of taking more aggressive measures after Neil Bonnett's death in 1994. Or numerous others....
Ooops didn't see the post above when typing this.
BTW - the Busch driver who's car was torn in half was actually Winston Cup Regular Michael Waltrip. Who also managed to survive a similiar crash years ago when he drove the yellow "country time lemonade" pontiac
[ June 25, 2003, 09:13 AM: Message edited by: fear the turtle ]

rrrr
06-25-2003, 08:59 AM
fear the turtle:
BTW - the Busch driver who's car was torn in half was actually Winston Cup Regular Michael Waltrip. Who also managed to survive a similiar crash years ago when he drove the yellow "country time lemonade" pontiac There was another one this year, and IIRC all three were because they hit the gate in the wall at Bristol. See what I mean? Uhhhhhh, you think we oughta do sumthin' about this?

gnarley
06-25-2003, 10:43 AM
I'm guna jump in here also,
I was a card carrying NASCAR member most of the 80’s & up to 94. I saw the sport building up & all the hype & had a dislike for the Frances then. Back then it was a good-ol-boy network & still is today, not what you knew but who you knew. I was at a NASCAR banquet when they first announced the Truck series & laughed about it & said what next NASCAR lawn mowers? They have tried to promote it as a family sport & to do that they needed corporate sponsors & what better place to sell Coffee & detergents to oil & cars?
There is a great brand loyalty & the corporations eat it up at the fans expense. Don’t forget though, the fans pay a healthy price just to go watch at one of the new fancy smanchy corporate sponsored venues also. NASCAR really isn’t about racing it’s about making money. They don’t care about safety or racing though they might have you believe that, they want it exciting, with drama & turmoil to keep the fans sucked in & dishing out more coin.
With all the technology that other sanctioning bodies have used to keep lives safe NASCAR has passed them up in the name of cost savings they say. They have said by making cars more technically advanced it will cost more to field a racing team. Who are they trying to fool? How much more could it cost to build safer cars on the cutting edge of technology rather than race cars that use 1960’s truck arm suspensions, pushrod engines & carburetors?
rrrr & Burbanite both have pretty good understanding what goes on. I would agree with Burb & think NASCAR will eat itself alive unless it makes some major changes. If you really like racing go to your local bull ring on a Saturday night that’s real racing!

little rowe boat
06-25-2003, 10:51 AM
It's true 2 events ay Calif. speedway yeehaa.Ill be working in the pitts as a firefighter,so I get to see the race up close and personal. :D

Boozer
06-25-2003, 12:29 PM
I "was" a long time fan of NASCAR.
I am and always will be a fan of Tony Stewart.
I have stopped watching Nascar ever since the Jesse Jackson donation. I despise that man and will not take part in any activity that supports him in any way shape or form. It sucks that I can't support Tony anymore but I refuse to watch Nascar after the Jesse thing.
I also watch pro moto cross and in a recent race (125 class) that took place in I believe Maryland I watched someone go from dead last to taking 1st place. The guy who took 1st place started the race dead last and the race leader was pretty far ahead of him. Personally I think this race was fixed. 1st place finisher is a DAMN good racer but so is every single person who was in that race and in my opinion it is not possible for someone to win a race like he did. There's always that freak possibility but it's highly doubtful. I think all sports are becoming fixed. Sponsor endorsement makes the sports happen so those who have the most endorsement win the races.
If pro wrestling has been fake for so many years yet still continues to watched by millions of people and generates billions of dollars in revenue why not fix all pro sports? If wrestling is something to look at and base your financial success off of then it's a good indication that even fake sports generate LOTS of revenue. Probably more based on the fact that people will spend more money to watch the sport if the favorite is always the winner.
This is purely my opinion and I really cant judge the fakeness of any sport because I haven't experienced the business aspect. But I can say that from what I have viewed as a spectator indicates to me that most professional sports are fixed in one way or another or at least "controlled."

rrrr
06-25-2003, 12:51 PM
Oh yeah, I forgot. When Jeff Green hit the end of a wall at Pocono a few weeks ago.... WTF is that doing there? :mad: It's effing unexcuseable that such a dangerous condition exists on a race track.

Seadog
06-25-2003, 01:27 PM
While this is a major NASCAR bashing effort, I think NASCAR will survive. I can remember back to the days of the superbirds. I can remember Ford developing a smaller snout nose for the Torino that beat the SB totally, but NASCAR changed the regs to disallow it. The Indy 500 is a staple for me, yet I have never liked it since they broke from CART and create that idiot IRL.
What has me mad at France and Idiots, Inc. is how they are screwing with the race to please companies and fans. The help DC field the new Dodges by giving them a bunch of breaks over everyone else. The Fords were dominating, but the fans were in love with Gordon and Stewart, so they adjusted the specs until the GM cars were more competive. Now the Fords have to push the HP so much that their reliability is out the window. If you don't believe me, compare how many teams were Ford two years ago to today.
I don't get too fustrated with the slow pace of safety changes. I used to be a SCCA corner worker and some of the safety devices could actually be more of a hazard than benefit. You find out that they are great in certain types of crashes, but killers in others. And don't be critical of the safety workers. They work the track, usually for nothing, and often pay for their training out of their own pockets. I had to be certified in specialized fire suppression and rescue. The dangers they face are great. Try putting out an alcohol fire and rescuing an unconscious driver. They bring one factor to the track that a traveling team does not, they know the track and how best to handle the risks. I do agree that the treatment of Bill Simpson was criminal.

rrrr
06-25-2003, 02:37 PM
Seadog:
While this is a major NASCAR bashing effort, I think NASCAR will survive.I'm not doing a major bash, I'm venting my frustrations that the guys in charge at NASCAR have their priorities screwed up.
Seadog:
I used to be a SCCA corner worker and some of the safety devices could actually be more of a hazard than benefit. You find out that they are great in certain types of crashes, but killers in others. I agree with that; Many Indycar drivers have stopped wearing the HANS device because it may play a role in compressive starburst fractures of vertabrae in certain collisions. However, to further prove my point, when it became apparent that the seat configuration in the IRL car contributed to the problem in conjunction with the HANS, the IRL ordered immediate modifications to the cars. NASCAR never does stuff like that.
Seadog:
And don't be critical of the safety workers. They work the track, usually for nothing, and often pay for their training out of their own pockets. I had to be certified in specialized fire suppression and rescue. The dangers they face are great. Try putting out an alcohol fire and rescuing an unconscious driver. They bring one factor to the track that a traveling team does not, they know the track and how best to handle the risks. I do agree that the treatment of Bill Simpson was criminal. No way was I criticizing the workers. They are risking their lives. But you said exactly what I was pointing out. Why the hell should a safety guy have to pay for training to provide support to the far and away best financed race sanctioning body in the USA?
With all the money that the France's take in it's effing stupid to not have a crack safety team with customized vehicles that are taken to every race. That's what the IRL, NHRA, and CART do. Besides, they race at the same tracks every year, so familiarity is gained. These guys are highly trained medical personnel. The regular track firemen are used in the IRL and CART, but the rescue stuff is done by guys that intimately know the structure of the race car and how to extricate an injured driver. As I said before, there are two MD's on both the IRL and CART crews. When Sam Schimdt crashed an IRL car in Florida in 1999 and was paralyzed, an emergency tracheotomy done while he was still in the car saved his life. It's doubtful a paramedic could have provided the skill needed to keep Zanardi from bleeding to death. It's serious shit out there, and NASCAR isn't doing all they can to protect the drivers and crews. That's wrong.
The deal with the IRL and CART creates ill feelings seven years later, but I think that the management woes of CART, the plunge of its stock price from $30+ to $2.50, and the frittering away of over $100 million in cash gained through their IPO shows that the IRL was necessary. After CART is gone (prolly next year) then perhaps the consolidation of sponsor money and the improving economy will give open wheel racing a boost.
I try to avoid the CART/IRL conflict. The people that want to argue about it will do so until hell freezes over, and I ain't got that much time.

twistedpair
06-25-2003, 03:36 PM
Boozer:
I also watch pro moto cross and in a recent race (125 class) that took place in I believe Maryland I watched someone go from dead last to taking 1st place. The guy who took 1st place started the race dead last and the race leader was pretty far ahead of him. Personally I think this race was fixed. 1st place finisher is a DAMN good racer but so is every single person who was in that race and in my opinion it is not possible for someone to win a race like he did. There's always that freak possibility but it's highly doubtful. The first place finisher you speak of is James 'Bubba' Stewart. The kid is an absolute freak of nature. If you saw the way he was hanging it out on that run, you'll see why he won. NO FEAR! I'll guarantee no one was sandbagging to let him by, he's just that good.

HighRoller
06-25-2003, 06:45 PM
To say NASCAR is proactive in safety is a joke.They are knee-jerk reaction artists.Since Big E died they have required the implementation of safety devices so restrictive that you now have to REMOVE YOUR GLOVES and take off your helmet to get out of the car.This is stupid!Any race car driver should be able to get out of the car within 10 seconds,because you only have 20-30 seconds of flame protection even in the best firesuit.They have had soft walls available for years.Where are they?On the shelf,because the clean up after an accident eats up precious TV time.Adam Petty and Kenny Irwin die at a track notorious for hard hits,and NASCAR does nothing because to redesign or eliminate the track would cost them money.The roll cages have become so complex and stiff that they transfer too much shock to the driver.And yes,the HANS device is actually dangerous to the driver in certain types of wrecks.Those straps may stop the head from moving but what about everything in between the shoulders and head?And don't even mention restrictor plates,which are supposed to keep car speeds down to a safe level but in reality cause 20 car pile ups!!!NASCAR has already begun to go down the road that almost led to the demise of CART.Within 5 years it will cost 20-30 million per car in NEXTEL Cup to be competitive.How many teams will get that type of funding?Not many I'm thinking.In the meantime the France family will keep laughing all the way to the bank.

playdeep
06-25-2003, 07:35 PM
The biggest cloud looming on the horizon is the impending legal battle between Bruton Smith who owns several Nascar sanctioned venues (Charlotte,Texas,Bristol) vs. The France family (Nascar).
Billionare vs. Billionare over race dates.
The ramifications from this lawsuit could lead to major changes in how Nascar does business...
btw,If you ever want to see just how good Tony Stewart is...try and catch him when he races at a local short track,the guy is a throwback to the days of A.J Foyt,Mario Andretti,Al Unser sr.etc.
When race drivers RACED anything on wheels.

HighRoller
06-25-2003, 08:16 PM
True Dat about Stewy.He raced a big block dirt modified last week,which is basically like a sprint car with a body,and took it to some of the best modified drivers in the country!!Passed Billy Pauch on the last lap to win the feature.He's wasting his talents driving that Home depot taxicab,I'd like to see him race with the outlaws.I love it when he hops out of the Cup car at Indy,goes to IRP and spanks the best midget and Silver Crown guys in the business!!I wish Jeffy would grow a pair and do the same.I'd LOVE to see Stewy and Gordon hook it up in a REAL race in REAL racecars.

playdeep
06-25-2003, 08:31 PM
HighRoller,
Those big Block modifieds are wicked machines...
Billy Pauch is legend in the east,where did they race?
I got to see T Stewart at the chili bowl in Tulsa(midgets)when he had to race as Smoke Johnson so that Joe Gibbs wouldn't find out that he was racing :D

rrrr
06-25-2003, 09:53 PM
I have seen Stewart run USAC, IRL, the Chili Bowl a couple of times, Turkey Night at Irwindale Speedway, and of course watched a few NASCAR races.
He is sumthin' else. I just wish he would become a gunslinger and show up wherever a race was being run and get after it.
Have you guys ever heard the comment about Kenny Schrader, "throw some dirt into the air and Kenny will want to run a race car through it"....
That's how Stewart seems to be, I hope he will turn his back on NASCAR some day and just go racin'.....

Boozer
06-26-2003, 04:51 AM
rrrr:
That's how Stewart seems to be, I hope he will turn his back on NASCAR some day and just go racin'..... I'm hopin the same. Tony dominates EVERYTHING on wheels. I think R. Gordon could too if he got out there and tried.

burbanite
06-26-2003, 05:29 AM
I am fortunate enough to have first hand experience working with Tony and I'll admit that before I met him I thought to myself " I hope I like him more after I meet him than I do now".
Within the first two minutes of talking to him I realized how wrong I was and how much genuine passion he has for racing, something you hear drivers say but hardly ever demonstrate. This guy is, as someone said, like a throwback, he will race anything you put under him and probably win with it.
A real pleasure to work with and a true race driver in every sense.

Boozer
06-26-2003, 05:36 AM
burbanite:
I am fortunate enough to have first hand experience working with Tony and I'll admit that before I met him I thought to myself " I hope I like him more after I meet him than I do now".
Within the first two minutes of talking to him I realized how wrong I was and how much genuine passion he has for racing, something you hear drivers say but hardly ever demonstrate. This guy is, as someone said, like a throwback, he will race anything you put under him and probably win with it.
A real pleasure to work with and a true race driver in every sense. All that and the fact that he has beat the crap out of Jeff Gordon in the garage on more then one ocassion makes him a modern day hero. I CANT STAND Jeff Gordon. He is the biggest candy ass in motorsports history.

big Doug
06-26-2003, 05:41 AM
playdeep:
The biggest cloud looming on the horizon is the impending legal battle between Bruton Smith who owns several Nascar sanctioned venues (Charlotte,Texas,Bristol) vs. The France family (Nascar).
Billionare vs. Billionare over race dates.
The ramifications from this lawsuit could lead to major changes in how Nascar does business...
btw,If you ever want to see just how good Tony Stewart is...try and catch him when he races at a local short track,the guy is a throwback to the days of A.J Foyt,Mario Andretti,Al Unser sr.etc.
When race drivers RACED anything on wheels. Tony's coming to St louis on Saturday at ken Schrader's track.

big Doug
06-26-2003, 05:43 AM
Boozer:
burbanite:
I am fortunate enough to have first hand experience working with Tony and I'll admit that before I met him I thought to myself " I hope I like him more after I meet him than I do now".
Within the first two minutes of talking to him I realized how wrong I was and how much genuine passion he has for racing, something you hear drivers say but hardly ever demonstrate. This guy is, as someone said, like a throwback, he will race anything you put under him and probably win with it.
A real pleasure to work with and a true race driver in every sense. All that and the fact that he has beat the crap out of Jeff Gordon in the garage on more then one ocassion makes him a modern day hero. I CANT STAND Jeff Gordon. He is the biggest candy ass in motorsports history. I agree Boozer, I have a real dislike for Jeff also. He wrecks more people than the bodines!