Bush on the Lincoln

[Catmando]

Those fine men and women just wanted to get back to their families, and Rove the Puppet Master pulled the strings and had Bush dancing on the deck running his mouth for hours.
39 miles from San Diego, and Bush got a FIGHTER PLANE to go to the carrier. Never in the history of the Air Force has an AWOL pilot been allowed back in a plane. ESPECIALLY not a wartime deserter like George W. Bush. :mad: :mad:

[Mandelon]

I'll grant you that it was a photo op of grand proportion, but I sure didn't see any grumpy faces on the men and women on that ship. They were proud to be there, proud of their achievement, proud of their country and pleased to have a chance to meet the president. A president that supports the military, unlike his predecessor who cut billions out of their budget.
Just imagine if Gore had been president during 9/11.......He would've made the French look tough.

[mickeyfinn]

I have heard others speaking ill of Bush for using a fighter to get on the carrier. Everyone forgets that Bill Clinton did the exact same thing and he is an admitted draft dodger.

[Catmando]

mickeyfinn:
I have heard others speaking ill of Bush for using a fighter to get on the carrier. Everyone forgets that Bill Clinton did the exact same thing and he is an admitted draft dodger. That's a LIE. See my post in the Dixie Chicks thread.

[Catmando]

Mandelon:
...unlike his predecessor who cut billions out of their budget.That's EXACTLY what Bush is doing now. And it is CLINTON'S military that went to Iraq this time. They did the job with HALF the manpower of Tree Bush's forces, and with better, more accurate weaponry.
CLINTON'S military. Remember that.
[ May 04, 2003, 03:02 PM: Message edited by: Catmando ]

[mickeyfinn]

Well,
Like I said before. Here is Cat's problem.
http://home.mindspring.com/~hypermarine/xcontortionist.jpg
You would probably feel better if you made that popping noise....You know the one. The noise that you make when you pull your head out of your a$$.

[Hal]

Maybe Catman needs one of these to chill out a little. :D
PENQUIN "BITCH SLAP"
http://www.strangecosmos.com/images/picturejokes/9590.gif

[Mandelon]

I try not to remember anything about Mr. Clinton. He disgusts me. I still can't believe his was re-elected. Shows how apathetic many Americans are. They knew he was a lying, cheating, philandering, draft dodger and still elected him twice. Although as I recall he got elected with less of a percentage than Bush....43% was it???
There are not that many politicians of which we can be proud. :( Bush has his skeletons too. But at least he has the sense to surround himself with qualified and capable people.
I bet you just can't wait till Hillary is President......maybe Gray Davis can be VP. What a pair.... :mad: :mad: :mad:

[HOSS]

Clinton`s military? How in the hell do you figure that? It was during Clinton`s reign that the government was privatized and remember that once he was in office the UN inspectors left Iraq! If he would have done his job, we wouldn`t be in Iraq NOW! Catboy you are blowing nothing but smoke. I`ll kindly ask you to shut the **** up.
That was me exercizing my right to freedom of speech.
Next I will exercise my right to act on will and kick your ass! burningm

[Kilrtoy]

That's EXACTLY what Bush is doing now. And it is CLINTON'S military that went to Iraq this time. They did the job with HALF the manpower of Tree Bush's forces, and with better, more accurate weaponry.
Yeah, America a pro basball team playing against iraq a t-ball team that I coach. Ok, that is a good assessment of the army they faced... we need to get back to a stronger, more kick ass take names military. We need to kick ass every once in awhile, so people dont forget that this tiger is not paper and will **** you up.....

[Wet Dream]

Cat, you're a ****ing moron.

[mike37]

Cat is one of those Internet marketers
That spam the heck out of your email
He wants you to join his pyramid scam so he can take your money
[ May 04, 2003, 04:03 PM: Message edited by: mike37 ]

[Catmando]

HOSS:
Clinton`s military? How in the hell do you figure that? It was during Clinton`s reign that the government was privatized and remember that once he was in office the UN inspectors left Iraq! If he would have done his job, we wouldn`t be in Iraq NOW! Catboy you are blowing nothing but smoke. I`ll kindly ask you to shut the **** up.
That was me exercizing my right to freedom of speech.
Next I will exercise my right to act on will and kick your ass! burningm Not only does that rant make no sense, it was STUPID. :rolleyes:
And as far as kickin' my ass, you ain't far from Texas, BOY. :mad:

[Dribble]

Quick, somebody call a wahmbulance for Catmando

[mike37]

Cat probably thinks that is was a hoax that we landed on the moon

[Mandelon]

Hoss, you better watch out for Cat-Man..... :D
http://www.internationalhero.co.uk/catman.htm
http://www.internationalhero.co.uk/catmanau.gif

[GlastronGuy]

http://home.attbi.com/~oldsmoboat/wsb/media/79189/site1085.jpg

[Seadog]

Cat lives in this little fantasy world, probably the same compound that the Dixie Chippies use. I have a really young nephew with the same grip on reality.

[HOSS]

Mandelon, are you sayin` catboy is a fellow action figure?

[HOSS]

And I`m still at 2 stars. WOW!

[I_C_E_Y]

Catmando ur a moron Clition CUT the militray look at the records of the past before you speak.

[mike37]

Hoss I gave ya five a wile back
you say what you want I like that
[ May 04, 2003, 06:19 PM: Message edited by: mike37 ]

[mike37]

any one think cat has a clue

[RiverToysJas]

Catmando:
Not only does that rant make no sense, it was STUPID. :rolleyes:
And as far as kickin' my ass, you ain't far from Texas, BOY. :mad: Grow up!
Looking at the interests listed in your profile, I can see why you like Clinton.....
"Interests: Boats, Babes, Billiards, Sex, Drugs, Rock 'n' Roll"
Hell, if not for the boats, you could be Bill Clinton!!!
RTJas :D

[Catmando]

I don't appreciate threats against my person, even if they're in cyberspace. :mad: And all you guys raggin' on me, it's because I don't believe the same as you about politics and religion. If I had kept my comments to boats and related issues, none of this shit would've hit the fan.
But guess what, your ad hominem attacks just prove that you have NO defense against what I lay out on the table, so you have to resort to personal put-downs.
I'm right about Bush and I can prove it. The only thing y'all are left with is Clinton, and he's gone. Want me to talk about George's daughters? Jeb's daughter? Maybe I should, the way you Clinton-haters talked trash about Chelsea Clinton(and don't tell me you didn't, I know you did). It was lies about her, but the truth about the Bush girls' drinking and drugging.
The Bush regime has got y'all bamboozled and brainwashed. Are we better off under Bush than when Clinton was president?? Compare the numbers and draw your own conclusions(if you still have a brain to do so).

[HOSS]

Not only does that rant make no sense, it was STUPID.
And as far as kickin' my ass, you ain't far from Texas, BOY.
Well you would think its stupid. Hell we might just meet up one day catboy. Never know which way the current`s travelin`. wink
Come on catboy. Look at who your defending. I`m stupid? Either your stupid or the guy your defending is. He did not know that a blow job and sticking cigars in a girls twat was sexual relations. Did he believe that or did you believe him when he said that? I`ll leave it at that.
[ May 04, 2003, 07:14 PM: Message edited by: HOSS ]

[vdrivenman]

CAT,
are u a native Texan ?

[RiverToysJas]

Catmando
And all you guys raggin' on me, it's because I don't believe the same as you about politics and religion. If I had kept my comments to boats and related issues, none of this shit would've hit the fan. You got that right!!!
But guess what, your ad hominem attacks just prove that you have NO defense against what I lay out on the table, so you have to resort to personal put-downs.I'd feel put down too if someone compared me to Clinton. wink
I'm right about Bush and I can prove it. Please do!!! :rolleyes:
(if you still have a brain to do so).Is that a personal attack???
RTJas :D
[ May 04, 2003, 07:37 PM: Message edited by: RiverToysJas ]

[HOSS]

You`re right catboy, I do apologize about the personnal attack. It was meant to be funny. But you have brought up some issues that appear to be totally unfounded and out of context. Even one sided. How can anyone debate with you if you are unwilling to see both the good and the bad.
Clinton did get rid of welfare! Outstanding! But he did drop the ball when it came to Iraq and the UN weapons inspectors. He was worried about the US economy and did great strides in making it strong. But most of his efforts were short term. And the falling of it at the end of his tenure proved that! Unquestionably. Maybe he should have been a little more global so as 9/11 MIGHT not have occurred. Maybe you should think of these things. Pointing out the negatives can be done by any idiot. Who and when is anyone giving Chelsea the benifit of debate or ridicule?

[mickeyfinn]

Smart money on the coon-ass.......

[mike37]

Hoss you better be careful this a$$ hole is psycho enough to hunt you down and kill ya

[HOSS]

Sounds good to me. He "might" be psycho. I`m for a fact ****ed up. That`s a guarrantee. :p

[mickeyfinn]

Hoss,
Not that you give a Chit but sending you five....Mainly just cause I don't like that sumbitch.

[HOSS]

Thanks bro. He`s just stirrin` everyone up a little. wink

[playdeep]

It looks like catmandoo is pulling the same crap here that got him kicked out of OSO...With this guy,it's never anything to do with boats or boating in general..
It's all about stirring up crap.24/7

[mike37]

The degree of one's emotion varies inversely with one's knowledge of the facts-the less one knows the angrier one becomes"
Bertrand Russell
Playdeep
I looked back over cats posts and your right not too much boat talk
He likes to get in to politics and rant about bush
He also has a problem with the pledge of allegiance
And he was kicked off two boards OSO and Fastboats

[Seadog]

Cat is a brainwashed mental midget. I see no criticism of Chelsea, yet he accuses us of doing so and uses it to attack Bush's daughters. I see cat putting out a lot of lies and no facts. Yet he manages to defend the low life clinton, who disgraced us for eight years. I sure the french adored clinton since he is as two faced as they are.
I am not a hard core Bush fan, but given the alternative, he will do. And he has done a good job so far. I just wish he wasn't with the religious right on so many things.

[Catmando]

HOSS,
You put that angry smilie at the end of that statement. How did you expect me to take it? I'm not a mind reader. If you guys want to discuss the good and bad of the Bush regime in a rational, low-key manner, that's fine. But to attack me personally, when I have not done that to any of you, just makes for hard feelings all around.
BTW, I accept your apology. :) I wish my boat had been ready in time for the Tickfaw Poker Run. :( I know some guys down there from OSO who I want to meet and ride with. I'll be there next year for sure. I'll buy the first round and we'll talk nothing but boats, how's that?
mickeyfinn,
You've never met me, so how can you say you don't like me?? Just because I don't like Bush. Well that's your problem, but anyone with an avatar like yours is not someone I'd want to have a drink with anyways.
Playdeep,
I'm all about boats. I live, eat and breathe boats. I take SEVEN boat magazines by subscription. Now I own my first performance boat ever, and I couldn't be more excited. But I learned more about boats on OSO than I ever did by just reading about them. When you've got Rich Luhrs, George Linder, John Tomlinson, Chris Reindl and almost all the APBA racers talking about boats and racing, you tend not to post unless you have a VERY intelligent question to ask.

[wsuwrhr]

Ummm,,,
Back on the subject....Can you imagine how nervous
the fighter pilot was flying the President over to the the carrier? Damn. A wrong move and he goes down in history in a bad way.
I have never heard the story the Bush was AWOL, is that true? Just curious.
Brian
[ May 05, 2003, 03:33 PM: Message edited by: wsuwrhr ]

[mike37]

Catmando:
Mandelon:
...unlike his predecessor who cut billions out of their budget.That's EXACTLY what Bush is doing now. And it is CLINTON'S military that went to Iraq this time. They did the job with HALF the manpower of Tree Bush's forces, and with better, more accurate weaponry.
CLINTON'S military. Remember that. Slick-Willie had no military
Bush jr. is building back what’s left of Bush sr. military
What’s left after slick-Willie tried to get rid of them
Bush mlitary thats the one that won in irac

[mike37]

cat wy were you kicked off OSO and fastboats ?

[NorCal Gameshow]

Catmando:
HOSS,
I'm all about boats. I live, eat and breathe boats. I take SEVEN boat magazines by subscription. if your are all about boats then keep your posts to boats,but then it's not like this is a boat forum... :rolleyes:

[haulina29]

The old puss on a roll,lol

[Trash]

The ship was far more than 39 miles out when they trapped. It was one of the reasons they did take a jet.

[Seadog]

Unlike cat, I have experience with the National Guard. In the early 70's, it was a loose organization. If a person had conflicts with attending, no one gave a shit. No penalties for missing meetings, you just called in and got off.
The NG has always been a very political part of the military because it is a state organization. Weekend drills were using sitting around taking classes or routine drills. Summer camp was spending one week getting the old equipment ready, a long weekend off, then 3 days of field experience and then clean up to go home. When I was sent to Prescott, AZ in 1972 to work a fire, the AZ NG was assigned to haul groceries. They could not keep the old dueces going enough to do that.
That has all changed. Because of the increased need for the NG to be an immediate combat force, they have up-to-date gear and cram the training of the regular army into two days a week and two weeks a year. Often leadership is asked to do unpaid attendance to get the job done. They have to maintain the same level of proficiency that a full-time soldier has, know all the technical information and maintain the same physical conditioning. This is done in the person's own time without the facilities available to the regular service and still working a full-time regular job and raising a family.
[ May 05, 2003, 06:17 AM: Message edited by: Seadog ]

[Catmando]

I worked 30 minutes on my reply to seadog, then it tells me I have to login. I lost it all. :mad:

[Catmando]

A lot of what I said is on WWW.awolbush.com. (http://WWW.awolbush.com.) In the 2000 race, McCain and Gore submitted their military records, as the law requires them to do, but Bush did not. He knew he would be forced to withdraw his name if his records were made public.
The RNC did not push him to disclose, and why the other candidates didn't either is beyond me. If I had been Al Gore, I would've made damn sure those records were brought to light.

[mickeyfinn]

[ May 05, 2003, 12:12 PM: Message edited by: mickeyfinn ]

[Ziggy]

This thread reminds me of a Parade....You got The Clintons out front making a mess of the street(aka US) and Bush pushing the cart with trash can, shovel and broom cleanin' house. Someones got to make up for all the crap that got left behind.
And I hate politics! :D
All in all, Bushes presence on the LIncoln was a great lift to many folks and great to see the happy Sailors returning to their loved ones.
[ May 05, 2003, 12:31 PM: Message edited by: Ziggy ]

[Catmando]

mike37:
cat wy were you kicked off OSO and fastboats ? On OSO, one of our members set up a discount muffler buy with a company. I jumped in because I was buying a boat without them. I volunteered to be the go-between handling the money. I found out that company didn't advertise on OSO, but I didn't realize the ramifications of that, so I went ahead. One of the guys in the buy told OSO, so I was out.
It also didn't help that a clique of whiney-assed right-wingers kept complaining to Steve about my political and religious posts. I never complained about THEM, and Steve let those guys rag on the board Liberals all they wanted to. Pussies :mad:
On fastboats.info, one of the members said in a post that he hoped Wolf Blitzer would step on a land mine in Iraq. I posted back that he should take that comment out, and was banned.

[mickeyfinn]

OK....I'm gonna try and explain it to you once again cat, so I am typing R-E-A-L slow. Your post explaining your removal from the OSO board sounds like you didn't think it was fair to be booted for expressing your views that everyone disagreed with...WELL GUESS WHAT?....IT ISN'T FAIR....Ain't it just the shits??? Thats the great thing about this country. You can say what you like and you won't go to jail...but that don't mean the people have to like it and just sit around and listen. We can take our own actions as long as we don't violate your rights in doing so. The last I heard the ability to post and be involved in these forums is a priviledge not a right. So either you are so ignorant as to not learn from your own history, or you are just trying to see how quickly you can totally remove yourself from all of the fun-loving people who are here because we share a love of boating. If you bring politics into the conversation and not only find that you are the minority view but you also express those minority views like a real a$$hole (sounding like you condemn anyone who disagrees) then you are just begging for trouble. Nobody here really cares if you change the way you view things but don't jump down everyone elses throat for expressing views that disagree with yours.

[Seadog]

Cat, you are a true democrat. It wasn't my fault. I had good intentions. The computer ate my homework. Bill Clinton was ambushed by his enemies.
The fact remains that the democrats would not have pulled any punches if there was any truth to your fanciful tales. As Governor of Texas and the son of a President, Bush has had his whole life in a fishbowl. They tried to pin drug charges on him, but they did not pan out because the only so-called witness was a low life that was trying to get a freebie from a Al Gore supporter. And even he could make any link, it was heresay. The whole charge was basically, he knew a guy who was at a party where drugs were used and GWB was at the same party, maybe.
However, it is documented that Clinton had rape charges lodged against him and the charges were not pushed because he was the state attorney general.

[Thunderbutt]

Catmando:
Mandelon:
...unlike his predecessor who cut billions out of their budget.That's EXACTLY what Bush is doing now. And it is CLINTON'S military that went to Iraq this time. They did the job with HALF the manpower of Tree Bush's forces, and with better, more accurate weaponry.
CLINTON'S military. Remember that. It is the Clinton military, including Gen.Tommy Franks. That is why they want to get rid of him

[HighRoller]

I think the term"Clinton's Military"is hilarious.I judge leaders by what they would do if they were totally unopposed.Clinton,unopposed would have completely scrapped the military and handed our weapons over to the U.N.I guess people have forgotten his letter stating unequivocably how much he"loathed"the military of the U.S.A. Drafted while he was in Moscow protesting against our country.

[HOSS]

Nobody here really cares if you change the way you view things but don't jump down everyone elses throat for expressing views that disagree with yours.
Yeah! That right is reserved for me. :mad:

[spectratoad]

I am going to go back to the beginning of this thread and start out where the conversation started.
I spent three years on a carrier and being 39 miles out is plenty of time for the Pres. to land do his thing and leave. Docking an 1100 foot peice of steel isn't quick. The rest of the airwing probably left a few days prior.
The S-3 Viking is not a fighter jet. It is a sub hunter, slow moving, twin turbo-fan (I think) jet. Flys low and slow to drop sonobouys and seek out to triangulate the position of subs.
As a military person I was never so pleased as the day when I was able to take down the pics of Clinton and replace them with Bush.
This administration has more class, morals, experience and pinache than Clinton's circus would ever have thought of getting. Clinton almost made it an outright embarrassment to be in uniform but thanks to the public they kept the spirit alive. I never heard so much people come up and tell me to keep smiling he will be gone soon or don't worry we still support you even though your boss doesn't and a myriead of other comment related to how poorly Clinton represented the office of the President and the Country itself.
So CAT I have always been proud to put my uniform on everyday, even when Clownton was in office but I am even more proud now that there is someone in the office who is as proud as I to be an American and knows what it takes to keep the memories of all who have given the most to make it ok for Clitmando to open his piehole and try to spread his his rhetoric. And you know Clit, I wear this uniform so that you can be assured that I will also protect your right to continue to voice your pathetic opinion and try to turn your lies into fact. So it's ok, continue your whining but try to remember that we are all protected by one Flag. :D
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/307clintons.bmp
[ May 06, 2003, 08:40 AM: Message edited by: spectratoad ]

[eliminatedsprinter]

Cat.
The word "Liberal" no longer has any meaning in todays politics. My dictionary defines "Liberal" as free thinking, open minged, and in favor of social change and progress. For the past 20+ years now, todays "Liberals" have been anything but that. Rather, they have been blindly goose stepping to a 70+ year old, failed, left wing, dogma that involves hyper-taxation and regulation of far too many aspects of our lives. Truly open minded people often resent busy bodies who run around asking the government to regulate more and more of our lives.
Many, if not the vast majority, of the people on this forum have invested a lot of their time, money, and hearts into an activity that is now under constant irrational attack from the political left. This quite naturally upsets them greatly and causes them (understandably) to despise the left. Most of us are not far right. We just value our freedom enough to be strongly anti-left.
When you stick up for a polititian, like for example Al Gore, who in the last election was to the left of and more authoritarian than even the socialist party candidate on most issues, you are going to draw some fire that from your perspective is going to sound very "right wing". It's not. From what I've read here about fast boats, beer, babes, and boogiing I'd say you were just as unlikly to find most of us at a "Moral Majority" or a Christian Coalition rally as you are to find us at a P.E.T.A., M.E.T.C.H.A., or Bluewater Coalition meeting. Most of us just want the busy bodies of the world to leave us alone. Many of us especially want OUR government to leave us alone the way OUR Constitution promises it will. That in my book does not make us a bunch of right wingers.
[ May 06, 2003, 10:56 AM: Message edited by: eliminatedsprinter ]

[eliminatedsprinter]

Hey Catmando
I saw on the news that Sen. Robert ("former" clansman) Byrd and Congressman Henry Tax** Oops I mean, Waxman are complaining about Pres. Bush's landing and speech. So, I guess you are not alone on this one. However, if I were you, I'd prefer a better sort of company..... devil :D

[clownpuncher]

spectratoad:
I am going to go back to the beginning of this thread and start out where the conversation started.
I spent three years on a carrier and being 39 miles out is plenty of time for the Pres. to land do his thing and leave. Docking an 1100 foot peice of steel isn't quick. The rest of the airwing probably left a few days prior.
The S-3 Viking is not a fighter jet. It is a sub hunter, slow moving, twin turbo-fan (I think) jet. Flys low and slow to drop sonobouys and seek out to triangulate the position of subs.
As a military person I was never so pleased as the day when I was able to take down the pics of Clinton and replace them with Bush.
This administration has more class, morals, experience and pinache than Clinton's circus would ever have thought of getting. Clinton almost made it an outright embarrassment to be in uniform but thanks to the public they kept the spirit alive. I never heard so much people come up and tell me to keep smiling he will be gone soon or don't worry we still support you even though your boss doesn't and a myriead of other comment related to how poorly Clinton represented the office of the President and the Country itself.
So CAT I have always been proud to put my uniform on everyday, even when Clownton was in office but I am even more proud now that there is someone in the office who is as proud as I to be an American and knows what it takes to keep the memories of all who have given the most to make it ok for Clitmando to open his piehole and try to spread his his rhetoric. And you know Clit, I wear this uniform so that you can be assured that I will also protect your right to continue to voice your pathetic opinion and try to turn your lies into fact. So it's ok, continue your whining but try to remember that we are all protected by one Flag. :D
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/307clintons.bmp Hooray for that last post Spectra. Let me buy you a few beers. Anytime you get to So Cal let me know. I have a good connection for some free beer and would love to git ya some.

[Catmando]

eliminatedsprinter:
Hey Catmando
I saw on the news that Sen. Robert ("former" clansman) Byrd and Congressman Henry Tax** Oops I mean, Waxman are complaining about Pres. Bush's landing and speech. So, I guess you are not alone on this one. However, if I were you, I'd prefer a better sort of company..... devil :D Having grown up in the South, I have major probs with Southern politicians. Byrd I don't much care for. Waxman I'm OK with.
As to Bush's tax cut plan, I got $600 last time he cut. :mad: How much did YOU get? And how much did the richest 1% get?

[Seadog]

Cat, how much taxes did you pay compared to how much the 1% paid? Would you rather be like some countries that tax the rich so much that they moved to other countries when they can afford to?
As for Waxman, he is responsible for more impossible and ridiculous environmental laws than any ten democrats. Most of which have wasted more tax dollars and have actually increased the risk from hazards.

[spectratoad]

Careful CP, I may take you up on that. I am trying to at least get to Havasu or something. If you are ever in the Reno area that offer is back to you. Kind of a standing offer for any wayward ***boater in my house. :D
I just looked at your location, Palm Desert, is it in the 29 palms or Joshua Tree area?
[ May 07, 2003, 06:57 PM: Message edited by: spectratoad ]

[clownpuncher]

Spectra, yeah it's real close to 29 Palms. I own Firemen theme restaraunt/bar here and get a few of the Marines in. Fun place. I am serious about you coming down and having a few beers. All the customers love the US military. Stay safe.

[JustMVG]

So everyone is complaining about the Pres. and the Carrier thing, so F-ing what if he did land on the carrier, and so what if it was close enough for the helo's to get him there instead, he's the Prez. Photo op, sure, so what, The man is THE COMMANDER IN CHIEF!!! He can do whatever he wants and has my blessing to do so, at least he did this for the Service men and women to say thank you,
Now does anyone remember a certain Ex-prex who needed a haircut so bad he sat on the tarmac in Air Force 1 waitng, WAITING for his special hair stylist to get to LAX to do Mr. Ex-Prez's F-ING Hair, imagine being told that you are going to be late into L.A. Because Bill Clinton needs a haircut, when the president lands at an airport it's a big freakin hassle for everyone involved, flights are not allowed in or out and the airport is essentially closed until he leaves, think of the cost's here, taxpayer money being spent for the A-Hole to get his haircut, now how can you get mad at Pres. Bush for wanting to give a thanks to the troops, and show his patriotism!!!!

[Mandelon]

Bush was scheduled to take a plane out to the flattop because it was further out when he was supposed to go. He either was delayed or the carrier arrived earlier. So the plane was already set up for him to use. Yes a helo would have worked but if the plane was fueled up and ready to go, what is the problem??

[spectratoad]

Clown, my great-grandmother had a ranch ther in Joshua Tree. My G-Grandfather used to grow artichokes I think. My dad has his 46 Willys Jeep that he bought brand new to drive around and water the farm. I loved going down there to visit. Have always wanted to go down there again and show my wife. May have to take you up on that. Her brother in law is a firefighter in Phoenix.

[eliminatedsprinter]

Catmando, pig_flyi I respect your Ideals, so please don't insult my intelligence with that tired, worn out, richest 1% non-sequitur. It is nothing but a phoney political slogan based on a statistical model that has no valid economic value.
I live in the San Fernando Valley and have 20 years in a job that takes a min of 6 years of college to get and my wife works full time in the medical clerical field. Out here we are scratching up at the bottem of the middle class. That $600 doller check and tax cut came at a time when it was badly needed, plus, I see enough more in my take home from it that, when combined with my small cost of living raise, it is of great help and was one of the reasons I was finally able to afford my 17 year old used outboard. IT HELPED ME A LOT. I don't care one bit that a wealthy taxpayer who pays a lot more in taxes gets more of his or her earned income back. They earned more, they paid, more, so they got more back duuuuuuhhhhh.
One of the LIES that left wing economics (an utterly phony concept indeed) is based on is the phoney notion that money is a fixed/non renewable resource and that when someone gets too much of it they are greedy hogs that are keeping more than their fair share and denying it to others. This, of course, is nothing but a looney idea that is spread by the left in stupid slogans (ie "Tax cuts for the rich") to stir up class envy and make what so many on the left call "the masses" easier to demagogue. It dosen't work on me. I have studied reasearch methods and design and I know how to evaluate statistics. The stats used to oppose taxs cuts and promote "targeted tax cuts" (right, targeted to hit as few people as possible) are so bogus that it disgraces those otherwise bright people who parrot them.
Keepin it friendly...

[058]

Least we forget the first thing Klinton did when he took office was pass the biggest tax increase in the history of this country and redefined the "rich" as anyone who made over $32K a year. Maybe one can live well in Mississippi on 32K but here in the Bay Area you can't get a place under a freeway overpass on that kind of money. And now the thought of Hillery running for president makes my blood run cold. When Bush returned $600.00 of my hard earned tax money, I was grateful and accepped it with a smile.

[eliminatedsprinter]

Seadog:
Cat, how much taxes did you pay compared to how much the 1% paid? Would you rather be like some countries that tax the rich so much that they moved to other countries when they can afford to?
As for Waxman, he is responsible for more impossible and ridiculous environmental laws than any ten democrats. Most of which have wasted more tax dollars and have actually increased the risk from hazards. Seadog
You have Waxman pegged. He's done no demostrable good to any individual taxpayers (other than perhaps his own bloated staff) or the environment and much harm to many.
[ May 08, 2003, 01:45 PM: Message edited by: eliminatedsprinter ]

[eliminatedsprinter]

058:
Least we forget the first thing Klinton did when he took office was pass the biggest tax increase in the history of this country and redefined the "rich" as anyone who made over $32K a year. Maybe one can live well in Mississippi on 32K but here in the Bay Area you can't get a place under a freeway overpass on that kind of money. And now the thought of Hillery running for president makes my blood run cold. When Bush returned $600.00 of my hard earned tax money, I was grateful and accepped it with a smile. [/b]
058 is correct. Around $30k a year for an indiviual or 60k for a combined family income and you are in the upper statistical quartile and according to the democrats "rich" and do not deserve a tax break. In fact, I have heard many on the left say they don't pay enough.
Catmando do you make more than 30k? Just ask yourself, (I really don't think I, or any others, have the right to know). If by some fluke you do think you should pay more taxes, then thank God, Mother Nature, or what ever fate put you in a part of the country that is not controlled by the political left. Because I'll bet if you tried to come out here to L.A. and start a business and buy a home you would wind up to the right of me in a hurry.

[Trash]

The rest of the airwing probably left a few days prior.
The airwing left the day prior.
The S-3 Viking is not a fighter jet. By Navy standards most would not call it a fighter. The airforce would though.
It is a sub hunter, slow moving, twin turbo-fan (I think) jet. Flys low and slow to drop sonobouys and seek out to triangulate the position of subs. It used to be a sub-hunter, it is not any more. That mission was removed in 1999. It is a twin turbo fan. Slow is a relative term. It has the ability to fly very slow for certain missions. It is not the slowest as far as top speed for all aicraft on the carrier. The airforce A-10 is slower. The S-3B does many missions, mostly tanker support, but has a full weapons capability to include Maverick, Harpoon, SLAM-ER etc. It is also fully acrobatic and extremely maneuverable.
[ May 08, 2003, 03:17 PM: Message edited by: Trash ]

[BlownCole]

Please do not judge all Texans by this intellectually challenged Cat man, what a dumbass :D

[MagicMtnDan]

Clinton military is an oxymoron which is a word you, Cat, probably don't understand. Don't confuse it with moron which is a word you obviously know well.
I don't mind your political bent (and it's VERY bent) but you're like so many other liberals who aren't really liberal at all. You obviously hate the US and think that this country owes everyone here something for nothing. This isn't Clinton's country.
As for "Clinton's military" I have one word for you - Mogadishu. If you don't know what that means, watch the movie Blackhawk Down and you'll see the finest example of Clinton's military. Our young men dying unnecessarily because of Clinton and his comrades unwillingness to have a military mission prepared. Sending our military iinto harm's way is what the Commander in Chief often does. But when he does it he damn well better do it 110% because anything less will result in a major F Up like the story detailed in Blackhawk Down.
I feel sorry for people like you who don't appreciate the huge risk President Bush took when he sent troops into Iraq. It was the riskiest, gutsiest move a president has made in our lifetimes. President Bush is to be commended for doing the right thing, freeing oppressed people and making the world a safer place.
If only you could see past your hatred of non-liberals (Democrats) you'd enjoy life a lot more.

[BlownCole]

MM Dan great rebuttal, shot you a 5 for that one

[BUSTI]

Cat you sound so angry when the Bush supporters react so strongly to what you say about the President. You act as if free speech is a right. WELL SPEECH IS NOT FREE IN THIS COUNTRY AND IT WAS NEVER INTENDED TO BE!!!! What the founding fathers provided us was the right to speak freely! There is a difference and most libs like you don't know the difference!. Once you have exercised your right to speak freely there maybe a price to pay on behalf of the person who spoke. The founding fathers did not provide us relief from being responsible for what we say. They said just we have the right to speak freely. The right to speak freely and say stupid things is protected by our constitution with freedom from government persecution for speaking freely. But its not free. In this country you have always been held accountable for what you say and do by your fellow Americans.
There are consequences to our actions and what we say may come with a heavy price to pay...maybe in a celebs popularity( Dixie Dits as exanple), a boaters credibility (yours as example) or a politician for something stupid or absolutely offensive and foolish in the eyes of his or hers community. We as Americans have the right to speak freely on almost any subject...but there are laws covering slander ect. If you open your mouth and utter something stupid ( as you have as example) don't be alarmed if you pay a price with the people you have spoken it to. They have right to speak freely and call you an idiot! Or they could just politely diagree but in any event I do not find your aguements inconsistent with libs that just hate to pay up for what they say and what they do...you are a fine example of libs in my opinion....angry you lost, puzzled with the reaction you get from people when you spew shit out of your mouth, confused about the difference between free speech and the right to speak freely, and reduced to Bush bashing over an obvious photo op that made a lot of service men and women happy along with their families.
REMEMBER THIS CAT! Speech is never free. Men and women wearing an American flag on their uniform have paid a terrible price for your freedom to speak freely! Your right to speak freely is secure because men like my son are in Iraq carring a gun and are prepared to die for your right to speak freely. But never think your right to free speech exists ITS NEVER FREE! And when you say something stupid like what you have said about the Presidents landing on Navy One be prepared to pay a price you jack ass! I don't care if are a boater or not if you can't say anything smarter than you have posted here shut the **** up! And this is not a rant its just me exercising my right to speak freely! Respond to my ideas with something nonlib if you can.

[HCS]

Catmando:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by eliminatedsprinter:
[qb] Hey Catmando
I saw on the news that Sen. Robert ("former" clansman) Byrd and Congressman Henry Tax** Oops I mean, Waxman are complaining about Pres. Bush's landing and speech. So, I guess you are not alone on this one. However, if I were you, I'd prefer a better sort of company..... devil :D Having grown up in the South, I have major probs with Southern politicians. Byrd I don't much care for. Waxman I'm OK with.
Any tax cut is better than no tax cut. Who's cares about Bush on the Lincoln. Clinton flew into L.A.X. and they had to shut down the whole freeking airport so he could get a damn hair cut. I didn't here anybody demanding he pay back the cost for that one. :p Byrd's a KKK blow hard and should move to some third world country where he would fit in better.
oops. kinda screwed that up the way I put that in there. But I made my point. :rolleyes:
[ May 08, 2003, 05:05 PM: Message edited by: HARDCORE-SKI ]

[HighRoller]

Why is it that every Democrat spews out how the rich get 10 times as much of a tax break but they NEVER state the other relevant fact.THE TOP 50% OF WAGE EARNERS IN THIS COUNTRY PAY 96.09% OF THE TAX BURDEN!!!THE TOP 5% PAY 49% OF THE TAXES IN THIS COUNTRY!!They are also the people who give most of you jobs,and if CatMando had his way he'd tax the so called"rich"75% of their income,then be crying tomorrow how he got"downsized"!!!The economy is not a zero sum game.You can't just tax the hell out of people and expect them to live with less money.If somebody has a choice between firing you to keep the same amount of money in his pocket every year or keeping you and swallowing the loss of a bigger tax burden,which do you think it's gonna be?Democrats do not want the dirty little secret out that tax cuts produce more revenue than tax increases.What happens every year when states have the"No tax"day for retailers?The stores are FLOODED!!!Do you think those retailers would have made nearly as much money if they had a"all products marked up 20%"day?Of course not,the biggest fear of every liberal is letting us keep more of our money because then we don't have to rely on their stupid social programs.

[Hal]

Wild Bill at his best (http://www.politicaltoons.com/flash/bill_pilot.cfm)

[Catmando]

Shrub Bush at HIS best;
www.awolbush.com (http://www.awolbush.com)
http://residentbush.com
WWW.buzzflash.com (http://WWW.buzzflash.com)
www.bushwatch.net (http://www.bushwatch.net)
www.truthout.com (http://www.truthout.com)

[spectratoad]

Come on Cat, show some interesting stuff. The whole liberal rhetoric is just anti-bush not anti republican or anti tax etc... All we hear is the anti-bush stuff.

[HighRoller]

CatMando is like one of those dolls with a string you pull.
ZZZZIPPP-Bush cuts taxes for the rich
ZZZZIPPP-Bush is gonna starve our kids
ZZZZIPPP-I hate Bush
ZZZZIPPP-Bush is a poopy head!!
ZZZZIPPP-Bush is a space alien passing out cigarettes to your children
ZZZZIPPP-Bush is a draft dodger and Bill Clniton is a war hero.
ZZZZIPPP-It's a right wing conspiracy
Thank you Cat,you're showing all the undecided that liberals have no issues of their own,they only know how to criticize the efforts of others.At least GW Bush is trying to do SOMETHING.All the Democrats are doing is standing in the way!!!!Can you say"Filibuster"?Let us know when the Democratic party comes up with some ideas of their own.

[XFactor]

As to Bush's tax cut plan, I got $600 last time he cut. :mad: How much did YOU get? And how much did the richest 1% get? [/QB][/QUOTE]
I've watched you post stupid comments for 2 days now. This is the dumbest! You are a typical democrat. How much did the richest 1% get? How much do you think the richest 1% contributes to this country? You are a complete idiot. Do us all a favor, read some of your 7 magazine subscriptions and come back to the boards when you have something intelligent to discuss.
burningm burningm burningm

[HCS]

The rich are the ones that create the jobs.

[058]

Tax cuts for the rich is one example liberals class envy. They can't stand to see someone like Bill Gates, Warren Buffet or even the middle class make money. Somehow they think if someone makes some money the government is entitled to a bigger and bigger share of that money, rob from the rich to give to the homeless, deadbeats, welfare cheats, and crack heads. Anyone who thinks the Democrat Party is for the working man has his head up his ass. If they were for the working people then why do they always want to raise the working people's taxes. They claim to be for the worker only because they are in bed with the Union bosses, not the rank and file.

[HighRoller]

I think the most hilarious example of what the Democrats are all about is when they insisted the stimulus package include extended unemployment benefits.Yup,nothing"stimulates"the economy like encouraging people to stay unemployed.

[Catmando]

XFactor:
As to Bush's tax cut plan, I got $600 last time he cut. :mad: How much did YOU get? And how much did the richest 1% get? I've watched you post stupid comments for 2 days now. This is the dumbest! You are a typical democrat. How much did the richest 1% get? How much do you think the richest 1% contributes to this country? You are a complete idiot. Do us all a favor, read some of your 7 magazine subscriptions and come back to the boards when you have something intelligent to discuss.
burningm burningm burningm [/QB][/QUOTE]
:D :D :D

[eliminatedsprinter]

Catmando.
The following are the highlights of a definition from a 1950s vintage Thorndike Barnhart Dictionary.
1. A strongly nationalistic movement in favor of government control of industry and labor and opposed to radical socialism and communism.
2. Any system of government in which property is privatly owned, but all industry and labor is regulated by a strong nataionl government.
Isn't this the democratic party platform?????
Are not all democrats always calling for more federal regulation of industry and labor?? Do they not always emphatically deny being socialists or communists???
In case your interested the word this definition is provided for is FASCISM.

[BlownCole]

Subject: Father daughter chat
A young teenage girl was about to finish her first year of college. She considered herself to be a very liberal Democrat and her father was a rather staunch Republican. One day she was challenging her father on his beliefs and his opposition to programs like welfare.
He stopped her and asked her how she was doing in school. She answered that she had a 4.0 GPA but it was really tough. She had to study all the time, never had time to go out and party and often went sleepless because of all the studying. She didn't have time for a boyfriend and didn't really have many college friends because of all her studying.
He then asked how her friend Mary, who was attending the same college, was doing. She replied that she was barely getting by. She had a 2.0 GPA, never studied, was very popular on campus and was at >parties all the time. She often wouldn't show up for classes because she was hung over.
He then asked his daughter why she didn't go to the Dean's office and ask why she couldn't take 1.0 off her 4.0 and give it to her friend who only had a 2.0. That way they would both have a 3.0 GPA. The daughter fired back and said "That wouldn't be fair, I worked really hard for mine and my friend has done nothing."
The father smiled and said: "Welcome to the Republican Party".

[beer hunter]

Blown Cole, great analogy :)

[Seadog]

The Friday paper always has some op articles from the Tulsa high schools. One ofthe kids in today's must be a nephew of cat. His long winded article is about how the feds, state and local schools are conspiring to deprive students of their constitution rights by forcing them to abide by a dress code, submit to drug testing for activities and undergo locker searches if a drug dog smells something. What else would he want, no grades? Free condoms and needles? No mandatory attendance? Maybe have the students grade the teachers. He will probably get mad because Harvard wouldn't take him with his D+ average.

[eliminatedsprinter]

eliminatedsprinter:
Catmando.
The following are the highlights of a definition from a 1950s vintage Thorndike Barnhart Dictionary.
1. A strongly nationalistic movement in favor of government control of industry and labor and opposed to radical socialism and communism.
2. Any system of government in which property is privatly owned, but all industry and labor is regulated by a strong nataionl government.
Isn't this the democratic party platform?????
Are not all democrats always calling for more federal regulation of industry and labor?? Do they not always emphatically deny being socialists or communists???
In case your interested the word this definition is provided for is FASCISM. This is why I don't like hearing the likes of Hillery Clinton, Chuck Scheumer, Dick Gebhardt, Al Gore etc... unfairly labeled as socialists or communists. I would prefer it if everyone strived for more accuracy and called them what they are, STRAIGHT UP FASCISTS.
[ May 09, 2003, 12:58 PM: Message edited by: eliminatedsprinter ]

[Catmando]

Oh yeah, the Navy Chief of Information, Rear Adm. Pietropaoli(good old White Anglo Saxon name eh?) said, "we're not doing the families any favors by tricking them and coming in sooner". EXCUSE ME??!!Just how would getting those tired and homesick Navy personnel home a day early be considered a "trick"?? :mad:
Yep, it sure would be a "trick" for those folks to get home a day early, see their families, go to a pub and have some brewskis, maybe get laid. Too much emotional trauma, they couldn't handle it eh? :rolleyes: :mad:
So the chickenhawk "warrior president" gets to go whoopee in a jet for the first time since he went AWOL in 1972, and the corporate pro-Bush media eats it up. devil

[HighRoller]

That's hilarious!!The"corporate pro-bush media"eh? When surveyed,82% of the staff members of the major print and television media outlets were REGISTERED DEMOCRATS!!!There's always an excuse Cat.Right Wing conspiracy in the left wing media.The liberals are just pissed because they have controlled the media for 30 years now and STILL can't understand why the don't rule the world.IT'S THE MESSAGE Cat!The American people are tired of liberals telling them Republicans are going to ruin the country.It's been a bad day for you Cat.The house just passed the tax cut,polls show the people favor the tax cut and Bush got nominated for the Nobel peace prize!He still has a ways to go to match Clinton's record of accomplishment.He only has 2 more years to perjor himself,get head from an intern and be impeached.GET BUSY GW!!!

[MagicMtnDan]

As Dennis Prager says, the problem with the liberal whine is their message - read on...
Dennis Prager - January 7, 2003
Conservatives may have talk radio...
The New York Times just published one of its most revealing articles in memory: "Outflanked Democrats Wonder How to Catch Up in Media Wars."
Apparently, the Democratic Party is gravely concerned that its liberal message is not being heard. And the reason Democrats give is that conservatives dominate talk radio, Fox News, and the editorial pages of The Wall Street Journal and The Washington Times.
Because of talk radio, two editorial pages and one cable news channel, liberals just cannot get their message across to Americans.
Full disclosure demands that I acknowledge a vested interest here. I have been a radio talk show host for 20 years -- 16 in Los Angeles and the last four in national syndication (through the Salem Radio Network). So I read with a big smile how influential my profession is perceived to be. But all this begs two questions: why is talk radio so powerful, and why is it dominated by conservatives?
The first question is particularly fascinating. That Democrats chafe at conservative dominance in talk radio is almost incredible -- because liberals dominate everything else.
Liberals dominate television: Aside from some Fox News shows (remember the conservative Sean Hannity is paired with the liberal Alan Colmes), the liberals dominate everything on TV (with the exception of John Stossel's specials on ABC). They dominate CBS, NBC, ABC, MSNBC and CNN news broadcasts, and they dominate all television entertainment.
Liberals dominate the education of our young: The ratio of Democrats to Republicans among liberal arts professors at universities is routinely 20 to one. And the deans, the presidents, the curricula, the speech codes and the campus newspapers are all liberal. Liberals also run the schools of education, the law schools, the high schools and the elementary schools.
Liberals dominate Hollywood: Are the Democrats unfamiliar with Barbra Streisand, Sean Penn, Jane Fonda, Robert Redford, Julia Roberts, and almost every other star who speaks out on political issues? Do Democrats not attend movies, which with almost no exception are liberal, if not radical, in their messages? Have you seen any movies recently with a businessman hero? Any with an affirmation of Judaism or Christianity?
Liberals dominate the public airwaves: National Public Radio has been dubbed National Palestinian Radio for good reason. And PBS has just produced and aired what even The New York Times called "an Islamic infomercial" in its special on Islam. Juxtapose that with its skeptical inquiries into the beliefs of Christian or Jewish believers.
Liberals dominate the biggest foundations: such as the Ford and Rockefeller Foundations.
Liberals dominate almost every major newspaper both in news coverage and editorial page positions: The Wall Street Journal editorial page is conservative as are and the editorial and news pages of The Washington Times. But the liberals have the rest, including The Boston Globe, The New York Times, The Washington Post, the Los Angeles Times, The Miami Herald, and the Chicago Tribune.
Liberals dominate virtually every professional organization: the American Bar Association, American Psychiatric Association, American Library Association, American Nurses Association, National Education Association, American Political Science Association, the Trial Lawyers Association, and, of course, every big labor union.
Liberals dominate much of organized religion: the mainstream Protestant churches and Reform and Conservative Judaism; while the liberal social message (with the exception of abortion rights) dominates much of the Roman Catholic Church.
Liberals dominate activist groups: the feminist, civil rights and civil liberties organizations as well as black, Hispanic, gay and Jewish organizations.
But according to Democrats, this domination of virtually all of American public life is not enough to get their message to the American people. Something must be done about the one TV news network, the two editorial pages and the radio shows they do not control.
Which raises the question -- why is it that liberals cannot dominate talk radio as they do virtually everything else?
I will answer this at length in a subsequent column, but the answer can be easily summarized -- liberals dominate where they cannot be intellectually challenged. It is effortless for a college professor to spout leftist rhetoric to naive young people who just graduated from high school. Let them have to defend their radical views in public and they wilt.
That is why many leftist professors refuse to come on my radio show -- they are unused to intellectual debate. They live with, work among, and relate to, fellow leftists. They almost never have to engage conservative ideas. We in talk radio, on the other hand, immerse ourselves in liberal newspapers, debate liberal guests and take liberal callers.
In short, the reason the liberal message is not being heard, despite liberal control of almost all public organs of communication, is that it is incoherent. The message, not a lack of messengers, is the contemporary liberal problem.
©2002 Creators Syndicate, Inc.

[R3v]

Catmando you are simply wrong. It is a thin and frail straw that people are grasping on to attacking the President for landing on the USS Lincoln. After a 10 month deployment visiting that ship is the least he could do. He owed it to those sailors to visit them.
As for flying in on a jet, that was probably the safest most efficient way to get there. Ever flown in a 46? They have about a 50/50 chance of splashing in to the ocean.
They slowed down the Boxer (big boat) so I could fly on board with 3 other guys and we flew 10 hours on a 53. I promise you that that cost three times what it cost for the president to fly on board.
What people seem to forget is that he is the Commander and Chief of the US military. It is tradition for Admirals and Generals to thank the troops. The president has every right in the world to fly on to a US warship.
Clinton almost destroyed the US military. While he was in office our Navy was almost ruined by neglect. Clinton was also the guy responsible for declassifying all of our SOP's. God only knows what kind of payoff he got for that.
It is unfortunate that you are so misguided and bear so much hate for President Bush. Especially since he is probably the reason you are alive today.
[ May 09, 2003, 01:42 PM: Message edited by: R3v ]

[MagicMtnDan]

Sorry for taking up so much bandwidth but one trick ponies like Cat deserve to hear the truth. Take this "test" Cat and be man enough to give us your answers!
Are You a Liberal? Do you believe the following?
1. Standards for admissions to universities, fire departments, etc. should be lowered for people of color.
2. Bilingual education for children of immigrants, rather than immersion in English, is good for them and for America.
3. Murderers should never be put to death.
4. During the Cold War, America should have adopted a nuclear arms freeze.
5. Colleges should not allow ROTC programs.
5. It was wrong to wage war against Saddam Hussein in the Gulf War.
6. Poor parents should not be allowed to have vouchers to send their children to private schools.
7. It is good that trial lawyers and teachers unions are the two biggest contributors to the Democratic Party.
8. Marriage should be redefined from male-female to any two people.
9. A married couple should not have more of a right to adopt a child than two men or two women.
10. The Boy Scouts should not be allowed to use parks or any other public places and should be prohibited from using churches and synagogues for their meetings.
11. The present high tax rates are good.
12. Speech codes on college campuses are good and American values.
13. The Israelis and Palestinians are morally equivalent.
14. The United Nations is a moral force for good in the world, and therefore America should be subservient to it and such international institutions as a world court.
15. It is good that colleges have dropped hundreds of men's sports teams in order to meet gender-based quotas.
16. No abortions can be labeled immoral.
17. Restaurants should be prohibited by law from allowing customers to choose between a smoking and a non-smoking section.
18. High schools should make condoms available to students and teach them how to use them.
19. Racial profiling for terrorists is wrong -- a white American grandmother should as likely be searched as a Saudi young male.
20. Racism and poverty -- not a lack of fathers and a crisis of values -- are the primary causes of violent crime in the inner city.
21. It is wrong and unconstitutional for students to be told, "God bless you" at their graduation.
22. No culture is morally superior to any other.
Those are all liberal positions. How many of them do you hold?
Are You a Liberal?
It is my belief that about half of the Americans who call themselves liberal do not hold the great majority of positions held by mainstream liberal institutions such as the New York Times editorial page, People for the American Way, and the liberal wing of the Democratic Party. So here is a test of this thesis to be given to anyone who believes he or she is a liberal. If you feel I have omitted a liberal position or have unfairly characterized any of them here, please e-mail me. This is still a work in progress.
Thank you,
Dennis Prager

[HalletDave]

Catgut,
Who are you trying to convince here, us or yourself. I'm convinced I wouldn't want to spend any time hangin' around you. Your posts bore me and confirm how closed minded yet gullible you are. Do people actually enjoy boating with you?
I think you are pathetic.
All you Hot Boaters, have a safe weekend. :D
Hallett (usually doesn't post like this, but felt compelled to do so) Dave wink

[eliminatedsprinter]

Damn Catman, you must really hate Bush if you are more willing to support fascists than him. Oh well, I guess politics really does make for strange bedfellows...

[Seadog]

On the positive side, a little controversy is always good, but in cat's case a little common sense would go a long ways.
If Bush had waited until the ship docked and then arrived for speech giving, I might agree that it unfair to the families, but he joined the ship in route and did not delay one family get together.

[058]

Liberals only support free speach when its something they want to hear. That said Demorcats have been heard grumbling about the effect "talk radio" had on the last pres. election and want to counter the few conservatives on national radio. Since I'm a fan of talk radio in an area well known for the liberal slant [KGO radio, San Francisco] There are two far left wing liberals that blather on about the advantages of liberalism and crusade against conservatives, Ray Talafero and Bernie Ward. Ward was among the several liberals who tried to go national and failed dismally, his national program was pulled from the market a couple of month after its beginning because of a lack of an audience. One of the other liberals who failed miserably was Jim Hightower from Texas, his program was on for about 6-7 months and it too was dropped. There must be a reason for the liberal message being silenced...lack of audience, nobody WANTS to hear what they have to say. yuk sleeping

[eliminatedsprinter]

Talk radio and 24 hr news are usually not left wing friendly evironments, because when subjected to lengthy discussion their emotion based arguments usually fall apart.
However, in the world of the nework TV 8 second sound bite, shallow emotion sells better than conservative or libertarian cold logic, which can seldom be explained in a quickie sound bite.

[Catmando]

eliminatedsprinter:
Catmando.
The following are the highlights of a definition from a 1950s vintage Thorndike Barnhart Dictionary.
1. A strongly nationalistic movement in favor of government control of industry and labor and opposed to radical socialism and communism.
2. Any system of government in which property is privatly owned, but all industry and labor is regulated by a strong nataionl government.
Isn't this the democratic party platform?????
Are not all democrats always calling for more federal regulation of industry and labor?? Do they not always emphatically deny being socialists or communists???
In case your interested the word this definition is provided for is FASCISM. Here's as good an article on Fascism as I've ever seen. Some of the words even I don't know, and I minored in English in college, so beware.
www.smirkingchimp.com/article.php?sid=11341&mode=nested (http://www.smirkingchimp.com/article.php?sid=11341&mode=nested)

[spectratoad]

Speaking of grasping at straws, I just read in our paper, the Reno Gazette Urinal (owned by Gannett) that the leading White House (can I say that Catmando) democrat Rep. John Conyers-Mich wants a full cost breakdown of how much it cost the Pres to fly out to the Lincoln. Give me a break. That is a desperate attempt to throw a cloud over a good happening. Just shows how desperate they are. wink

[spectratoad]

Trash, You are right about the weapons. I got out of the Navy in 93 and I remember they were just testing the weapons on the Viking about that time I think. I remember seeing them practicing out at Fallon and I was amazed to see a Viking blowing things up!! eek!
Are you ex-military?

[eliminatedsprinter]

Cat
That was a cruel joke. You got me!!!
I can't believe you got me to actually read through that incoherent pile of hysterical, psudo-intellectual, non-sequiturs. Jeeze, now I know the kind of stuff that those nuts who dress in all black and throw rocks at store windows during internationl trade conferences read...
An english minor, hmmm, no wonder your spelling and punctuation are so much better than mine.
By the way, Fascisim is far from far right. On the lame 2 dementional right vs left way of looking at things, Fascisim is a moderate left comprimise between capitolism and communisim/ socialism. In fact, the main reason fascists hated and sought to destroy commies and socialists was because they viewed them as direct compitition for control of the same frightened, desperate, depression weakened minds.
The only way McCarthy could be linked to fascism was by his fascist-like methods and conduct. Not the idiology he promoted or thought he was defending.
Now that I read one of your reccomended readings how about you read something a little more mainstream (since you were an english minor this probably should say re-read) like "Atlas Shrugged" or "The Fountianhead" by Ayn Rand. Or, if you would rather read something a little more light and fun, try re-reading George Orwell's "Animal Farm", you probably haven't read it since you were a kid and it might sink in this time....
[ May 09, 2003, 05:42 PM: Message edited by: eliminatedsprinter ]

[CA Stu]

spectratoad:
Speaking of grasping at straws, I just read in our paper, the Reno Gazette Urinal (owned by Gannett) that the leading White House (can I say that Catmando) democrat Rep. John Conyers-Mich wants a full cost breakdown of how much it cost the Pres to fly out to the Lincoln. Give me a break. That is a desperate attempt to throw a cloud over a good happening. Just shows how desperate they are. wink I heard that also, adn the result was that the jet cost $6559 an hour to operate, which is only $7 an hour more than the Pres's Chopper (Marine One?). The jet is a crapload faster than the chopper, therefore, it was a lot cheaper to fly Pres. Bush out there on the jet. Good old GW, saving the taxpayers money and strengthening the military (just like he said he would in his campaign) all in one fell swoop.
Four more years!!
CA Stu <-- Bush Lover :D

[Catmando]

Esprinter,
I tried to tell you about that guy. Jeez I couldn't BELIEVE some of those words. jawdrop
He sure went roundabout to get to the point, didn't he? :rolleyes:
As to Ayn Rand, I have all her works, and more by her "disciples". I have followed her Ethical philosophy all my life, but her defense of Capitalism will not work in the real world, because there aren't enough Hank Reardens, Francisco D'Anconias and John Galts to keep the rest of the greedy men honest.
Yeah Animal Farm, great little book. :) I like the pig marrying the chicken. :D

[Mandelon]

CA Stu:
spectratoad:
Speaking of grasping at straws, I just read in our paper, the Reno Gazette Urinal (owned by Gannett) that the leading White House (can I say that Catmando) democrat Rep. John Conyers-Mich wants a full cost breakdown of how much it cost the Pres to fly out to the Lincoln. Give me a break. That is a desperate attempt to throw a cloud over a good happening. Just shows how desperate they are. wink I heard that also, adn the result was that the jet cost $6559 an hour to operate, which is only $7 an hour more than the Pres's Chopper (Marine One?). The jet is a crapload faster than the chopper, therefore, it was a lot cheaper to fly Pres. Bush out there on the jet. Good old GW, saving the taxpayers money and strengthening the military (just like he said he would in his campaign) all in one fell swoop.
Four more years!!
CA Stu <-- Bush Lover :D Damn, You Go Stu.
What do they think? Pres should always stay in Washington? :confused: Since when did liberals worry about spending taxpayer dollars? Ooops, I mean their $$$$. I only work 6 months a year to pay for them, 6 months for my family. :mad: :mad:

[spectratoad]

Yeah but they say that Marine One went out any way for backup and there were one or two more S-3's with them and the COD (C-2), Carrier Onboard Delivery, for all the media etc...they want accountability dammit! :D wink
I wondre how much it cost for CliTon to shut down LAX to get his haircut. Or maybe we should see how often AF1 flew with Bill versus GW???? Lt me know Cat, I am sure you have some numbers handy from the Demo playbook. :D

[Trash]

there were one or two more S-3's with them and the COD (C-2) There were 2 S-3Bs. One the President was in and a wingman. The COD carried staffers (Nat. Sec. Advisory Rice and others).

[Catmando]

While we're on the subject, did anybody notice that the Unelected White House Occupant was wearing a UNIFORM?? No president has EVER worn a uniform at ANY government function, regardless of where it was , or for what purpose.
Saddam Hussein wore uniforms
Moammar Khadaffi wears uniforms
Kim Jong Il wears uniforms
All dictators wear uniforms. Bush has said twice, publicly, that if he was a dictator his job would be easier. Was he joking? TWICE??
Bush went AWOL during wartime. He does not DESERVE to wear the uniform of the United States Air Force.

[MagicMtnDan]

Enough of your bullshit Catmandoo. Just like all the other Bush haters you're making a mountain out of a molehill. People like you are only happy when this country has a moral degenerate and ethically bankrupt President like Clinton in the White House. It's time for your nap.
And about the bullshit AWOL charge:
Did George W. Bush go AWOL during his time in the National Guard?
11-Apr-2003
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Cecil:
Since you've already covered the Bush family's relationship to the Nazis (thank you), I thought maybe you'd also cover another timely topic. I've heard many times and in many places (but none mainstream that I can think of) that George W. Bush was AWOL for at least a year from the National Guard during Vietnam (after "jumping the line" to get a slot in the guard in the first place). For some reason (I'm not sure why), I have trust in the Straight Dope. Can you tell me/us if the person sending others to war in Iraq was really derelict in his military duties? How serious an offense would that behavior have been considered, generally, during the Vietnam war? Lastly, if George was actually AWOL, and that would have been the equivalent of a felony for most people, why haven't we been hearing about this issue? --Kerry J. Johnson, Bellingham, Washington
Cecil replies:
Yeah, the mainstream media have really kept a lid on this one. We wouldn't know anything about Bush going AWOL if it hadn't been for that obscure underground newspaper the Boston Globe, which broke the story nationally in May 2000. But you're right that coverage has been pretty thin. A few months after the 2000 election, former Bill Clinton adviser Paul Begala said he'd done a Nexis search and found 13,641 stories about Clinton's alleged draft dodging versus 49 about George W. Bush's military record. Why the disparity? We'll get to that. First the basics: Yes, it's true, Bush didn't report to his guard unit for an extended period--17 months, by one account. It wasn't considered that serious an offense at the time, and if circumstances were different now I'd be inclined to write it off as youthful irresponsibility. However, given the none-too-subtle suggestion by the Bush administration that opponents of our Iraqi excursion lack martial valor, I have to say: You guys should talk.
Here's the story as generally agreed upon: In January 1968, with the Vietnam war in full swing, Bush was due to graduate from Yale. Knowing he'd soon be eligible for the draft, he took an air force officers' test hoping to secure a billet with the Texas Air National Guard, which would allow him to do his military service at home. Bush didn't do particularly well on the test--on the pilot aptitude section, he scored in the 25th percentile, the lowest possible passing grade. But Bush's father, George H.W., was then a U.S. congressman from Houston, and strings were pulled. The younger Bush vaulted to the head of a long waiting list--a year and a half long, by some estimates--and in May of '68 he was inducted into the guard.
By all accounts Bush was an excellent pilot, but apparently his enthusiasm cooled. In 1972, four years into his six-year guard commitment, he was asked to work for the campaign of Bush family friend Winton Blount, who was running for the U.S. Senate in Alabama. In May Bush requested a transfer to an Alabama Air National Guard unit with no planes and minimal duties. Bush's immediate superiors approved the transfer, but higher-ups said no. The matter was delayed for months. In August Bush missed his annual flight physical and was grounded. (Some have speculated that he was worried about failing a drug test--the Pentagon had instituted random screening in April.) In September he was ordered to report to a different unit of the Alabama guard, the 187th Tactical Reconnaissance Group in Montgomery. Bush says he did so, but his nominal superiors say they never saw the guy, there's no documentation he ever showed up, and not one of the six or seven hundred soldiers then in the unit has stepped forward to corroborate Bush's story.
After the November election Bush returned to Texas, but apparently didn't notify his old Texas guard unit for quite a while, if ever. The Boston Globe initially reported that he started putting in some serious duty time in May, June, and July of 1973 to make up for what he'd missed. But according to a piece in the New Republic, there's no evidence Bush did even that. Whatever the case, even though his superiors knew he'd blown off his duties, they never disciplined him. (No one's ever been shot at dawn for missing a weekend guard drill, but policy at the time was to put shirkers on active duty.) Indeed, when Bush decided to go to business school at Harvard in the fall of 1973, he requested and got an honorable discharge--eight months before his service was scheduled to end.
Bush's enemies say all this proves he was a cowardly deserter. Nonsense. He was a pampered rich kid who took advantage. Why wasn't he called on it in a serious way during the 2000 election? Probably because Democrats figured they'd get Clinton's draft-dodging thing thrown back at them. Not that it matters. If history judges Bush harshly--and it probably will--it won't be for screwing up as a young smart aleck, but for getting us into this damn fool war.
--CECIL ADAMS
source: The Straight Dope - click here for the info (http://www.straightdope.com/columns/030411.html)

[spectratoad]

Hey Cat, that was a flight suit that he was wearing. They are full of live saving gear should the plane go down. So yes it is a uniform and it is a piece of flight gear that should be worn if you are in a aircraft partaking in the flight operation.
What part of that uniform said US Air Force? I honestly didn't look that close but I am just curious. Navy plane, Marine Helo, Navy ship?? I didn't see anything that was USAF. You really aren't that bright are you?
Your entire post is such liberal rhetoric. You all say the same thing and whine about the same stuff. Bush won the election, get over it. Bush served his country in the military and now as President. The military part is more than any dem I can think of at the moment has ever thought of doing.
[ May 10, 2003, 06:38 AM: Message edited by: spectratoad ]

[Too Old]

Cat, I see you're over here making new friends.

[Playn]

Too Old:
Cat, I see you're over here making new friends. :D :D :D

[Catmando]

Hey Fred wasup. I'm going to the Marathon race next wkend and will head up your way Monday. Boat is still in NC, so I'll help Martin rig it.

[Too Old]

You have my numbers. Give me a call if you pass near. I'd like to see the boat.

[eliminatedsprinter]

Catmando:
Esprinter,
I tried to tell you about that guy. Jeez I couldn't BELIEVE some of those words. jawdrop
He sure went roundabout to get to the point, didn't he? :rolleyes:
As to Ayn Rand, I have all her works, and more by her "disciples". I have followed her Ethical philosophy all my life, but her defense of Capitalism will not work in the real world, because there aren't enough Hank Reardens, Francisco D'Anconias and John Galts to keep the rest of the greedy men honest.
Yeah Animal Farm, great little book. :) I like the pig marrying the chicken. :D Point? :rolleyes:
Lets see if I get his point, or points...
Point 1. Bush Bad.
" 2. Republicans bad.
" 3. Capitolism bad.
" 4. Individual financial freedom very very
bad. We must give all money to government
and let it run our lives for us.
Pretty much sums up this deep thinkers ideas. In a nutshell, which is right where they belong.... :D
Capitolism dosen't work in the real world??? So the creativity and productivity of Americian industry is just a myth and it's the beurocrats and (what Ayn Rand calls) "the looters" that have kept this country going???? Give me a break. At least when a privite enterprise fails it usually goes out of business and goes away. When a gov beurocracy fails all the cummunitarian types want to do is keep throwing more and more money at it, so it can keep on failing forever. When a business fails and goes out of biz it often costs a lot. But removing a failed government is usually much costlier..
[ May 12, 2003, 12:33 PM: Message edited by: eliminatedsprinter ]

[eliminatedsprinter]

eliminatedsprinter:
Catmando:
Esprinter,
I tried to tell you about that guy. Jeez I couldn't BELIEVE some of those words. jawdrop
He sure went roundabout to get to the point, didn't he? :rolleyes:
As to Ayn Rand, I have all her works, and more by her "disciples". I have followed her Ethical philosophy all my life, but her defense of Capitalism will not work in the real world, because there aren't enough Hank Reardens, Francisco D'Anconias and John Galts to keep the rest of the greedy men honest.
Yeah Animal Farm, great little book. :) I like the pig marrying the chicken. :D Point? :rolleyes:
Lets see if I get his point, or points...
Point 1. Bush Bad.
" 2. Republicans bad.
" 3. Capitolism bad.
" 4. Individual financial freedom very very
bad. We must give all money to government
and let it run our lives for us.
Pretty much sums up this deep thinkers ideas. In a nutshell, which is right where they belong.... :D
Capitolism dosen't work in the real world??? So the creativity and productivity of Americian industry is just a myth and it's the beurocrats and (what Ayn Rand calls) "the looters" that have kept this country going???? Give me a break. At least when a privite enterprise fails it usually goes out of business and goes away. When a gov beurocracy fails all the cummunitarian types want to do is keep throwing more and more money at it, so it can keep on failing forever. When a business fails and goes out of biz it often costs a lot. But removing a failed government is usually much costlier.. Think it through Catmando...
Just because you agree with this guy on point 1 are you really going to buy into points 2,3, and 4 as well. The author of that rant obviously has some very serious problems controlling his eek! hysteria.
Catman, this might shock you, but I agree that this administration has allowed us to inch a little closer to fascism. However, the last administration moved us much closer and tried, in effect, to vault us straight there. Good lord, President Clinton even tried to use that lame "protectors priviledge" scam to turn the secret service into his own personal palace gaurd.
[ May 12, 2003, 12:35 PM: Message edited by: eliminatedsprinter ]

[058]

And to think that Clinton almost turned over our military to the UN. One world government? I think not. :mad:

[eliminatedsprinter]

Catmando
Remember filegate burningm , travelgate burningm , the above mentioned secret service scam : burningm , etc... How about the mass seizures of private land in Utah (I have an elderly distant uncle who had his family horse ranch stolen from him by Clinton/Gore in that one) burningm .
Under Clinton/Gore virtually all prominent conservitive oganizations and individuals were audited annually by the IRS, while all their counterparts on the left were left alone. The only other administration to be observed in such a pattern was the Nixon administration eek! .
Compared to Clinton/Gore, when it comes to fascism, Bush is indeed a lightweight.
[ May 12, 2003, 01:25 PM: Message edited by: eliminatedsprinter ]

[Essex502]

And don't forget the biggest B.S. of all...Gore invented the Internet!