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VanDeano
08-02-2002, 03:58 AM
Has anyone had the same experince with after market stuff promising u better performace and better MPG?
I have a 97 Suburban K1500 5.7 with the Jacobs ign.($500) K&N Filter Kit,($275) Throttle body spacer,($95) Flow masters,($250) and Hypertec 160 degree set up.($285)
Everyone of those items promised better fuel mileage, NOPE not 1 bit of defference. If anything it is worse.
Performce:
Maybe there was a little the first couple of miles, but after that I honestly believe I lost performance. My buddy works for the GM, and he states that the OBD (on board computer) recognizes when u install after market parts.
And after a few miles of driving the computer will adjust what ever it takes to put the vehicle back to it programed state. That explanes why I may have notice a bit of better performce at the first couple of miles.
Since he told be that I put everything back to stock except for the mufflers and the K&N filter (with the stock housing). I couldn't be happier.
If you really think about, Don't u think if there was other ways of getting better gas mileage or better performce the GM engineers would have down it. That is just my 2 cents...........

NorCal Gameshow
08-02-2002, 04:07 AM
what the engineers come up with and what the bean counters in the office come up with can be two different things $$$$$$$$

WETDAWG
08-02-2002, 06:26 AM
The things that work best on my '97 "burb" and the RVRDAUG are the AIR Raid intake system and a Gibson Catback.
they really made a difference (in the sound mostly) but I like they way they perform
Keep all the other stuff in the box. :D

Rubths
08-02-2002, 06:39 AM
2000 Ford turbo diesel I put the TTS chip in and it added 80hp and 180lbs of toque to the rear wheels, most poeple dont believe it but after they ride in it they say thats got to be the fastest excursion anywhere. Ohh and if thats not enough I have 100hp shot of propane if needed to smoke em up

LaveyClay
08-02-2002, 07:00 AM
Look @ the info presented www.fastchip.com. (http://www.fastchip.com.) I let them reprogram my 97 burb 2500 7.4L. I had a K&N and performance exhaust before the programming. What a difference. The only draw back is you have to run @ least 91 octane fuel. I did the math on my truck and went from 10.5 MPG to 12. Even with the more expensive fuel cost, my cost per mile actually decreased. Check it out!

BowTie Rick
08-02-2002, 09:35 AM
Here is my take on your observations. I have been in the automotive aftermarket performance industry for my entire adult life and can offer some insight.
I have a 97 Suburban K1500 5.7 with the Jacobs ign.($500) K&N Filter Kit,($275) Throttle body spacer,($95) Flow masters,($250) and Hypertec 160 degree set up.($285)
Everyone of those items promised better fuel mileage, NOPE not 1 bit of defference. If anything it is worse.
Well, I can guarantee you that K&N does not promise better gas mileage as I work there. Gas mileage is determined by how you drive. Intake and exhaust have the greatest impact at mid to upper RPMs, especially throttle body spacers. If you drove conservatively before making changes you may see no gain or even lose some. You may even tend to drive harder to "feel" the increased performance which is not good for comparing before and after mileage. If you drove hard to begin with, then you get the big gas mileage gains. We lead foots can attest to that : )
_________________________________________________
Performce:
Maybe there was a little the first couple of miles, but after that I honestly believe I lost performance. My buddy works for the GM, and he states that the OBD (on board computer) recognizes when u install after market parts.
And after a few miles of driving the computer will adjust what ever it takes to put the vehicle back to it programed state. That explanes why I may have notice a bit of better performce at the first couple of miles.
Impossible. The computer is programmed to achieve the optimal air/fuel ratio and timing curve for emissions as well as performance. The increased flow is "read" by the mass air and/or O2 sensors and fed to the computer which adjusts the fuel mixture richer to compensate. If it didn't, you would soon burn pistons and valves and that does not ever happen. The increased fuel being burned results in increased performance. Why you think performance was better at first than now is simple, you got used to it and it is no longer a novelty; it feels normal to you.
_________________________________________________
Since he told be that I put everything back to stock except for the mufflers and the K&N filter (with the stock housing). I couldn't be happier.
Makes me think you drive conservatively and that torque off the line is more appealing to you than higher RPM horsepower gains.
_________________________________________________
If you really think about, Don't u think if there was other ways of getting better gas mileage or better performce the GM engineers would have down it. That is just my 2 cents...........
No, I don't think they would. They are in the business of selling vehicles. To do so, one must move units. In order to move units, one must be priced competitely. If you make all these type of upgrades OEM, your vehicle is too expensive and less apealing to mass sales. Ferrari and Lamborgini would be exceptions. They have all the goodies but you pay out the ass to have them. And how many of them do you see driving in town? You see way more averge Joes driving average vehicles.
________________________________________________
I am not trying to argue with you or put down your friend, but I happen to know that such OEM dealer bashing of high performance parts is common and far from the actual truth.

snappertapper
08-03-2002, 12:33 AM
i put flowmaster exhaust on my f 350 and i loved it, but the k&n ir system didnt do much for me!!

VanDeano
08-03-2002, 05:52 AM
Bowtie,
you maybe right, and then again u could just be blowing smoke. All what u said made sense just like what my buddy said to me made sense.
Dont take this personal and I dont want to have a pissen match w/ u....but it seems after market stuff is your bread and butter. And you talk like u know whats up. You probably could talk me into buying land on the moon. Just like how the others did by me buying all the useless after market shit.
But I know what I know, and with my own personal experence with the after market shit I bought, there was no difference, other then sound. Im sure there is others out there that may say different.
But you almost had me convince it might all be in my head, except what u said made me think other wise.
" Here is my take on your observations. I have been in the automotive aftermarket performance industry for my entire adult life and can offer some insight.
PS..... you maybe right that K&N does not promise better gas mileage, but they sure make u wanna believe they do by posting letters from there so called customers. Here is just 1 of at least 50 I seen....................
I recently installed a K&N replacement air filter on my 2001 Toyota Tundra (V8). I was anxious to try it out so my family and I took a trip not too far from town. After coming back (on one tank of gas), I refueled to calculate the exact amount of gas used by the vehicle, and then calculated my gas mileage. To my amazement I achieved a fuel economy of 22 mpg on the highway! I still had gas in the tank which would have left me at over 550 miles to a full tank. This mileage is unheard of in a V8 pickup truck. Thank you for helping me take my vehicle to the next level in economy and performance.

Sun burners
08-03-2002, 06:36 AM
Borla headers and cat back, and a chip. not night and day difference but can cruise over 100 mph if needed...

Rickster
08-03-2002, 07:55 AM
I had a K&N filter in my 94'F150 6cyl for over 130,000 miles....2 months ago I needed to clean it again so I put in a paper filter & tossed the K&N on top my tool chest...didn't clean it....took a trip and the powerless 6 chugged up New Mexico mountains in 3rd gear that would have been in 5th gear w/K&N , sucked! Got home...wife says "how do you like the way I cleaned up the garage"? ....you guessed it, she threw away the filthy K&N I neglected to clean! The biggest HP/fuel gain was to use BG's Oil in tranny, rearend and motor. That old straight 6 is like a dud but it sure has been reliable...192,000 miles and only uses 2 oz's of oil every 5,000 miles.

Rexone
08-03-2002, 02:16 PM
Having been in the performance parts business now for about 30 years i felt i could offer a little sound perspective on this topic. There is a myriad of aftermarket performance products on the market and determining which ones actually work and what to expect from them can be confusing at best. Being a K&N distributor for many years as well, I've been to the K&N factory and actually seen an actual flow test on k&N's product vs. a similar sized paper filter with my own eyes. While I can't quote you numbers, the difference in flow efficiency was astounding, not even close in favor of the K&N. This actually surprised me a little because I had always felt that paper flowed pretty good prior to seeing the test...not so.
Now the magic question, will K&N's or other products improve fuel mileage? That depends a lot on how you drive with the increased level of performance they will definately deliver. How you drive the vehicle pretty much predicates your fuel economy no matter what performance enhancement your debating. It's been my experience that in many cases the more power and performance a person has at his or her disposal, the harder they press on the pedal, which just doesn't yield any better fuel economy and sometimes can even yield less.
Another category i've seen many first hand increases in performance is exhaust systems. K&N FIPK's work very well too, basically intake and exhaust flow is where the main gains for your dollar will be made on stock vehicles. On all the trick ignitions out there, they usually don't do alot for a street driven suv or truck applications because today's ignitions are pretty good at the rpm levels most trucks run in. Where the MSD's and the like shine is at higher rpm conditions where stock ignitions start breaking down at a rapid pace.
One more product that works very well are the power programmers like Hypertech. Depending on application they'll deliver a few to a bunch of extra horsepower (with proper programming). When used in conjunction with intake and exhaust enhancements they're just that much better. Again fuel economy is generally controlled by the pressure on the right foot after the increased power is realized.
I also have to agree with BowTie Rick that aftermarket product bashing by OE dealers is quite common and widespread. They want to sell only their stuff, and replace their bad stuff with more of their stuff, not someone elses product. I've heard this often from our customers. It's not that the OE products suck (well some do) but many aftermarket products are just better in terms of performance. That's why the aftermarket exists. Think about it, if all aftermarket products were junk and didn't work or do anything positive, the customers wouldn't buy the stuff and the aftermarket companies that manufacture it wouldn't be around long.
Not trying to argue or put anyone's opinion down here, just offering my 2 cents on the subject. There's some good products out there that will definately increase performance and power. I'm confident there's some that don't do much too. Fuel economy is more a function of the driver though than anything else.
Mike @ Rex Marine
www.rexmar.com (http://www.rexmar.com)

VanDeano
08-03-2002, 10:13 PM
REX ONE,
Well said, I can live with that, I guess that is what Bow tie was saying. I guess I took it the wrong way.
I had no problem w/ just the K&N filter. It was when I went with the upgrade and replaced my air box. The problem was that everytime I would hit the gas to pass someone or hit the gas going up a upgrade, the trany would instead of kicking down 1 gear it felt like it was kicking down 2 gears. Put back the stock box and everything was fine. But that could just be my luck. (maybe getting to much air)
But as for all the other stuff (ignition, spacer, Hypertec,) no difference that I could tell. Like I said, that is just my experience. Maybe others had better luck. I was just curious if anyone else had same experience I did.
On the Hypertec I did notice shift firmness when I selected that. This may just have been coincidence, but my trany went out 2 weeks later with only 40 k. after I selected that. Lucky for me I purchased the extended warranty.
By the way REX ONE, I was just at REX MARINE last week and drop about 5 bills on some swim steps.
[ August 03, 2002, 11:22 PM: Message edited by: VanDeano ]

VanDeano
08-03-2002, 10:16 PM
[ August 05, 2002, 01:46 AM: Message edited by: VanDeano ]

Rexone
08-04-2002, 04:13 PM
Hey VanDeano,
First off, thank you very much for your business on the swimstep stuff.
I'm sorry to hear that your truck upgrades have caused you grief. On the passing gear subject it sounds like something definately isn't right...you'd have to be going really slow for it to normally kick down 2 gears. I'd definitely contact Hypertech's tech line for a discussion. I've heard nothing but good things on their products in the past. As far as the shift firmness as it relates to the trans breaking, my suspicion is that it may be just a coincidence that it died even though I know such things are a little difficult to swallow. Generally speaking, when you increase the shift firmness on most any automatic transmission, you are essentially applying clutch packs and / or bands more quickly, consequently causing less wear, not more. It's the soft long shifts that really wear the transmissions out more quickly because during that long soft shift, the clutch disks are sliding on each other, thus removing clutch material and creating heat, heat being the worst enemy of an automatic. I'm far from a transmission expert, this is just what I've picked up over the years from those who work on them daily and working on a few T400's myself several years ago. Bottom line is my guess is the trans was ready to croak anyway...just my guess.

Craig
08-05-2002, 06:07 AM
BowTie Rick:
Well, I can guarantee you that K&N does not promise better gas mileage as I work there. You ought to check your web page :D www.knfilters.com/filtercharger.htm (http://www.knfilters.com/filtercharger.htm) The very first bullet says it will improve gas mileage!

THOR
08-05-2002, 06:44 AM
Rex, Bowtie, anyone,
I have a 24' Eliminator, and am pulling with a 4.6L Expedition. First, dont laugh, second, I took over the lease from mom and dad, so it was a great deal to say the least. Got it for roughly half of blue book.
The expo pulls like $hit. It is a total dog. I dont want to hammer the thing by reving it out in 2nd gear all the time. How much will and exhaust or a chip or a filter kit or whatever help out on the 4.6L?
thanks

kevnmcd
08-05-2002, 10:50 AM
Hey Thor - You must have a thing for slugs... :D j/k I just couldn't pass up that dig. :p Good luck on the power upgrades.

HAVASU DCB
08-05-2002, 11:07 AM
Van Deano,
Try running all your ugrades but without the k&n filter(with stock). I've sone a lot of research on this stuff and the new vehicles dont like too much air being sucked it. The computer tries to compensate for the more air and starts dumping a bunch more fuel thus causing it to get bad mileage.

THOR
08-05-2002, 11:32 AM
Kev,
I walked into that one. My vehicle is a pig.
Nice ride BTW.

HM
08-05-2002, 11:58 AM
THOR:
Rex, Bowtie, anyone,
I have a 24' Eliminator, and am pulling with a 4.6L Expedition. First, dont laugh, second, I took over the lease from mom and dad, so it was a great deal to say the least. Got it for roughly half of blue book.
The expo pulls like $hit. It is a total dog. I dont want to hammer the thing by reving it out in 2nd gear all the time. How much will and exhaust or a chip or a filter kit or whatever help out on the 4.6L?
thanksI am in a similar boat, no pun intended but funny!
I have a Dodge with the 4.7. It runs good, but you have to rev the heck out of it. It would pull better if I had a gear in between 2nd and 3rd. If the motor could stay at 3000, it would pull the hills at about 60. I can pull the hills at 70 in 2nd, but @ 5000 RPM.
My buddy put a whipple on his 4.7, and it now pulls great, and about $8,000 later! I heard the Ford 4.6 works well with a whipple - if you have the kaysh!
I have been seriosly thinking about regearing the differentials (I have a 4X4, so twice the cost).
I don't think chips and other "bolt-0n performance" parts will help either of us. I do say that I enjoy the gas mileage of the 4.7, since I usually slow down to about 45 mph on the hills and enjoy the A.C. while the truck runs at optimal temp. So I arrive 30 minutes or so later than the rest?

BowTie Rick
08-05-2002, 12:26 PM
We at K&N make intake kits for both the 4.6 Expedition and the 4.7 Dodge. Check out this month's edition of Ford Truck World magazine. They did a test of K&N, Airaid, and Volant intakes. K&N made a peak gain of 7.5 HP, Airaid 2.5 HP and Volant 2.0 HP. Our testing gets a 7.3 HP increase on the 4.7 Dodge. These are done on stock vehicles. Havasu DCB brings up an interesting point. First, these kits, intake and exhaust, do not bring in any more air than the vehicle is already requiring. They do not force air in like a supercharger or turbo. As for too much air, not in our testing. I think what he may mean is that when you combine an intake that makes 7 HP with an exhaust that makes 6 HP, you do not get 13 HP. More than likely you will be in the neighborhood of 10 HP. The reason for this is the computer can only adjust so far, it becomes the limiting factor. Get a chip and yes, that will further open things up but you still cannot add together the individual gains. What that does is make the first mod seem to be the best and all subsequent ones less impactful. They all do help though so don't get me wrong there. As for newer vehicles being sensitive to too much air, sorry, can't vouch for that as we have no incidents of that occuring with our product line. Tube diameter is critical but if R&D does proper testing, it is not a factor. I cannot speak for the miriad of knock offs. We at K&N make filters and our kits compliment our filter line. Therefore we have the luxury of taking our time and testing thoroughly. Other companies only make kits and are more rushed to get product out and I believe testing gets neglected somewhat. As for the gas mileage improvement on the web site, I will get it removed. It was there once before and got removed and now its back, what the heck, job security wink The testimonials are just that, one person's opinion and should be viewed as such. You don't think we would put up bad ones now do you :p OK, enough from me nad this is NOT A SPAM eek!

THOR
08-05-2002, 12:36 PM
How is the 'kit' different from only the filter?
How much is the 'kit'?
Where can I look at one around the OC area?

BowTie Rick
08-05-2002, 12:52 PM
The "kit" replaces the entire stock intake tract from throttle body out. The filter goes inside the stock housing. Typical average gain is 2 - 4 % HP increase from filter only and 5 - 7 % from entire kit. Click on http://www.knfilters.com/wheretobuy.htm for local and on-line dealers. NOT A SPAM (again), just helping a fellow boater I swear!

Havasu_Dreamin
08-05-2002, 01:08 PM
BowTie Rick:
Ferrari and Lamborgini would be exceptions. They have all the goodies but you pay out the ass to have them. And how many of them do you see driving in town? You see way more averge Joes driving average vehicles.I saw what looked like to me a Lamboghini Diablo in Bullhead of all places this past Saturday! eek!

HAVASU DCB
08-05-2002, 01:16 PM
Bowtie,
That is what I meant. When people add all these mods to their vehicle the add up all the numbers that are claimed and then when it doesn't make 200 hp everyone is upset. Thats why I was saying try to do one at a time and feel if each does it's job. I didn't think you claimed mileage on you're products so if he removes it than he shouldn't see any difference in fuel. Hope everyone gets their issues resolved. See you on the lake.

Hustler
08-05-2002, 01:28 PM
Ok!! I have been following this thread and find it very interesting. I have a question for Bowtie Rick. I know the K&n filter flows more air but how does it do for protection against the sand (ie. Dumont, Pismo and Glamis) I have a few buddies that would rather run the papaer filter because they say it gives them more protection against the sand is this true?

BowTie Rick
08-05-2002, 01:57 PM
I hope you guys all know I am giving the honest truth here and no marketing BS. As far as filtration, nothing beats paper. The question is though, what is acceptable and what is not. A typical paper filter has a 99.29 % efficiency rating on an SAE dust test. K&N rates at 99.05 % on the same test conducted by an outside, independent lab (Southwest Research in San Antonio, Tx). Foam rates as low as 76% and as high as 98% depending on density which greatly affects flow rate. Our knock off competitors rate as low as 89% and as high as 97%. OEM minimum standard set by the Detroit 3 is a 96% efficiency rating. All that said, K&N exceeds minimum standards and is withing fractions of a percent of a paper filter. To sumarize, yes, they do just as good of a job. The pin holes in a K&N are due to the gauze media which has been treated by oil. The small fibers that cross these openings to catch the fine stuff are translucent. Spray WD-40 on a sheet of paper and you will get the same effect.

74Campbell
08-05-2002, 02:02 PM
What about the nylon skirts over the filters? I always ran K&N with the nylon Outfitters, and that seemed to be a good comb for Glamis. The nylon skirts helped keep the big stuff out of the filter.

BowTie Rick
08-05-2002, 03:25 PM
74Campbell:
What about the nylon skirts over the filters? I always ran K&N with the nylon Outfitters, and that seemed to be a good comb for Glamis. The nylon skirts helped keep the big stuff out of the filter.You bet. They are a great help. They do not stop the real small stuff but do keep the bigger chunks from ever getting to the filter and thus keep it cleaner for longer periods of time. Also, a thick enough of a build up of dirt can literally suck all the oil off the filter and a dry one does not filter nearly as well. In fact, that is a big time no no.

maxbowride
08-05-2002, 03:58 PM
It would pull better if I had a gear in between 2nd and 3rd. If the motor could stay at 3000, it would pull the hills at about 60. I can pull the hills at 70 in 2nd, but @ 5000 RPM.
Try a gearvendor trans. I just got home from a week at havasu and pulled a 3000 pound boat with a 28' motorhome 454 and never broak a sweat. splitting the gears is the only way to tow IMO.

HM
08-05-2002, 04:11 PM
maxbowride:
It would pull better if I had a gear in between 2nd and 3rd. If the motor could stay at 3000, it would pull the hills at about 60. I can pull the hills at 70 in 2nd, but @ 5000 RPM.
Try a gearvendor trans. I just got home from a week at havasu and pulled a 3000 pound boat with a 28' motorhome 454 and never broak a sweat. splitting the gears is the only way to tow IMO.Maxbowride,
I don't know what a gearvendor trans is. Could you esplain?
Thanks

maxbowride
08-05-2002, 04:44 PM
I don't know what a gearvendor trans is. Could you esplain?
Thanks[/QB][/QUOTE]
Gearvendors (http://www.gearvendors.com/)
What it does is add a trans. behind the stocker and lets you split each gear, first-first high, and so on. in a truck or car you could end up with double overdrive. For towing second gear is prime for hills but revs the motor to high, you can pull hills in a gear between second and third, 2hi.
[ August 05, 2002, 05:52 PM: Message edited by: maxbowride ]

VanDeano
08-05-2002, 04:59 PM
Is it true that the bolt on super-chargers wear out an engine twice as fast. I'm talking about a stock engine. One that is not set up for a super-charger.

HM
08-05-2002, 05:04 PM
Thanks max!
A little out of budget for this year, so I guess I will have to keep it 45 MPH on the hills!

HM
08-05-2002, 05:12 PM
VanDeano:
Is it true that the bolt on super-chargers wear out an engine twice as fast. I'm talking about a stock engine. One that is not set up for a super-charger.this is not totally true. A stock engine can handle 3-4 lbs boost without much trouble. In boats, you can get away with almost 7 lbs due to cooler running temperatures. It is the driver who puts his foot in it all the time that wears out the engine. A supercharged motor can actually last longer if driven the same way as the stock motor. When you get over 3-4 lbs of boost, then the engine will start to have problems such as pre-detonation that can cause catastrophic engine failer. It can also be hard on the on the driveline if the driveline was not made to handle the power.

VanDeano
08-05-2002, 05:20 PM
Holy Moly,
What are your thoughts about putting a super-charger on a 5.7 vortex with 75,000 miles. Do I need to run the high octane stuff?
Also, any suggestions on a manufacture? (Whipple, Paxton,........)

HM
08-05-2002, 05:51 PM
VanDeano:
Holy Moly,
What are your thoughts about putting a super-charger on a 5.7 vortex with 75,000 miles. Do I need to run the high octane stuff?
Also, any suggestions on a manufacture? (Whipple, Paxton,........)If the motor is good condition, I don't see why not. To me, 75,000 miles is just getting broken in! Other people see this as "time for a new vehicle".
I have heard good and bad things about every super charger on the market....most of it boils down to installer incompetence of the supercharger system. I have had several family members (5) who have put Whipples on the following vehicles:
Chevy 1/2 Ton Suburban 5.2 liter
Chevy 3/4 ton Suburban 7.4 liter
GMC Denali 1/2 ton 6.0 liter
Chrysler PT Cruiser 4 banger
Dodge Dakota 5.9 Liter
They have all worked very well, with the exception of my father-in-law who can't keep it below 75 MPH on the Grape Vine while towing his boat (he has the 1/2 ton Suburban with the 5.2 liter).
I reccomend contacting Whipple and ask for a reccomendation for installation. They can be very tricky to dial in especially for the smog legal systems if the installer is not familiar.
check Whipple out at Whipple Super Chargers (http://www.whipplesuperchargers.com/homepage.html)
As far as the other superchargers like Paxton, I know they can work real well. I think GM has a Vortex charger now. I am sure someone else will post some refferences to other systems.
Good Luck!

BlownCole
08-05-2002, 05:51 PM
VanDeano:
Holy Moly,
What are your thoughts about putting a super-charger on a 5.7 vortex with 75,000 miles. Do I need to run the high octane stuff?
Also, any suggestions on a manufacture? (Whipple, Paxton,........)I would sure have a mechanic check out the motor good before hand, compression, rod and main bearings, etc. This could be done with an oil analysis. I put one on a motor that had 48,000 miles, 6 lbs. of boost it handles it ok. Also make sure you use good 92 at least octane fuel and don't be driving with your foot in it all the time.

VanDeano
08-05-2002, 09:51 PM
Thanks for the info
:)

skeepwerkzaz
08-06-2002, 12:09 AM
Oil analysis are only effective in telling engine problems if there is a trend. i.e. you have been doing it for a bunch of oil changes. If you start making babbit all of the sudden it will tell you something. But if you just take one sample, there is no baseline of what your engine normally produces. Good luck.

Lightning
08-06-2002, 01:38 PM
Thor,
My buddy has a 4.6L Expedition and he tows a 21' boat with. He swapped to new gears and swears by it. If you want more details, email me.

CA Stu
08-06-2002, 03:17 PM
Hi folks, first time poster.
Had to chime in on this one. I had a 96 Dodge 1500 w/ a 5.9 V8 all the bolt ons, 12 mpg, lots of pinging under load, forget towing with it.
Traded it in for a 2001 2500 w/ the Cummins diesel, put a Banks Stinger kit on it, it will tow the freakin Queen Mary sideways up Rice Road in the summer with the A/C blazing and still get good mileage.
If you want a great tow vehicle, get a diesel.
My .02
CA Stu
(I get about 16-17 mpg around town, about 14 towing my 23 ft boat.)

THOR
08-07-2002, 06:02 AM
Lightning,
What gears did he put in there? Mine are no where near what I need. :mad:

VanDeano
08-07-2002, 06:07 AM
Yep, my Dad just bought a new Ford pick up with a turbo diesel. I was amazed how much power and top end it had. Was nothing like his 1985 diesel.
My only problem with his diesel is (I know I may get a lot of crap for this) that it is a FORD. :p
But then again, I have a Ford 460 in my boat. :D

63stevens
08-09-2002, 02:27 PM
My pull vehicle is a 1989 E350 class C MH. It doesn't pull the hills great(33mph on grapevine) but it has 65k on it and has never left me standing on the side of the road. If you want something that pulls great and gets mileage get a diesel. I don't know much about the duramax but the ford powerstroke get's the job done. That 496 in the chevy's with the allison does a great job too!

77charger
08-09-2002, 06:24 PM
hers my experience
89 burb4x4(a turd to begin with)(190hp)was stock a dog.now flowmaster hi flow cat(15-20hp)
,jba headers(10hp),chip(10hp) k&n,tbi spacer(5hp),msd(10hp)with all this claimed horsepower i should have felt more than a hole in the pocket!!!only difference was the hole in the pocket noticed very little if anything now all i have is the exhaust everything is now stock and very very little difference.
I have a cousin who believes in all this crap he has puts a filter,wires,plugs ,atc and tells me all this stuff is worth lots of extra hp well i have finished my beer and am still waiting at the sand bar for him to show.
I am a believer in the old cam,compression and carbueration makes hp.any everytime i have swaped cams,intakes,and carbs i have felt a difference.
Now if i can rebuild my burban motor soon and swap cams i hope it wont be a turd on the floor and if still is a vortec will be bolted on.BTW i saw a filter comparison in hrm lately and the difference in hp was 2 at the most between stock and aftermarket!!!!plus the KN i had always let dirt flow thru(yes it was oiled)BPOS
[ August 09, 2002, 08:20 PM: Message edited by: 77charger ]

cruser
08-09-2002, 08:44 PM
Just got back from a trip pulling my 23', 5500 lbs Sleekcraft(includes trailer) about 1000 mi. Also included is me, my wife and a few 100 pounds of gear. Total GVW is about 12K or so. Tow vehicle is a 98 Expedition w/5.7. Got about 11 mpg at between 65-70 using AC. Only issue I have with towing is that, as mentioned above, 2-3 are too far apart. Didn't find a hill that I couldn't go up at >60 mph, if I kept my foot in it and allowed it to shift down to 2nd, otherwise if I let up a little bit and kept it in 3rd, the lowest speed I got was about 55. We have a 6% hill in town that I can go up at >65 if I want to rev over 4000 in 2nd or, if I shift up I can only hold 55mph. When not towing on this hill, it runs @60 pretty easy.

VanDeano
08-11-2002, 02:50 AM
77 Charger,
I feel your pain! wink