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View Full Version : 1,000,000 Stupid Californians



Havasu_Dreamin
08-28-2003, 07:12 AM
From today's New Democrat, errr, I mean the LA Times:
SACRAMENTO — A coalition of labor, liberal and government reform groups presented state officials with 1 million signatures Wednesday for a ballot measure that they say would resolve the political gridlock that seems to annually haunt California's legislative budget process.
Opponents, however, say it would only result in higher taxes.
The state Constitution requires a two-thirds majority vote in both houses of the Legislature for taxes to be raised. The proposed Budget Accountability Act would lower the threshold to 55%.
Under the current makeup of the Capitol, that change would allow Democrats to increase taxes or institute new ones without a single Republican vote — and make it impossible for GOP members to block a budget, as they did this summer, by insisting that no taxes be raised.
The likelihood that the initiative will be on the spring ballot means that California voters face another heated contest revolving around the state budget and taxes on the heels of the current recall campaign.
In addition to lowering the vote threshold for new taxes, the measure would withhold lawmakers' pay when a budget was late, force them to work exclusively on adopting a budget once the June 15 constitutional deadline for doing so had passed, and require legislators seeking reelection to disclose how they had voted on state spending.
Business and conservative groups oppose the measure and have labeled it the "Blank Check Initiative." They warn that it would promote out-of-control spending, saying the supermajority requirement is all that kept Democratic lawmakers this year from raising taxes by $8 billion.
If state elections officials certify the signatures — only 600,000 voter signatures are required — the measure will appear on the March 2 ballot. That election is expected to have a heavily Democratic turnout because it coincides with the presidential primary. The certification process could take several weeks
Although the idea of lowering the threshold for tax increases or new taxes has been floated before and has failed to gain traction, supporters say voter anger over the budget this year has reached a boiling point.
"This is going to pass, because there is a tremendous level of frustration by voters about the fact that the Legislature is not doing their job," said Gale Kaufman, a Democratic political consultant working on the initiative campaign. "Voters have made it very clear that the status quo is not working."
As supporters campaign, they are downplaying the fact that the measure would allow lawmakers to raise taxes more easily. Instead, they are pitching the initiative as a reform package that would hold legislators accountable for not getting a budget signed on time.
"This measure sounds good until you hear the elements within it," said Al Lundeen, spokesman for Californians Against Higher Taxes, which was formed by business and other groups to fight the proposal. "The promoters want us to believe it is about punishing legislators for late budgets. What it simply is about is making it easier to raise taxes."
Foes cite a Field Poll taken last month showing that 45% of voters opposed lowering the legislative vote requirement for new taxes and 40% backed it. Kaufman countered that support for the idea grows when it is presented with the other reforms in the ballot measure.
California is among a handful of states that require a two-thirds vote for raising taxes. That rule is often cited as a reason that lawmakers can't reach consensus on a spending plan and miss their deadline year after year. The state has started a new fiscal year without a budget nine times in the last 13 years.
The inability to compromise has disrupted schools, local governments, road crews and others because it temporarily halts the flow of payments from the state.
Trudy Schafer, program director for the League of Women Voters, which supports the initiative, said the system forces the majority party to dangle enticements before minority lawmakers to get the votes to pass the budget. This year, Democrats added more than $260 million in spending to secure last-minute GOP votes so the compromise budget could pass.
Schafer said the league favors provisions in the initiative that would require establishment of a budget reserve and publication of how lawmakers voted on financial issues.
Democrats, as the majority party in both houses of the Legislature, stand to gain the most from the initiative. If it passes, they will be able to push through plans such as the half-cent sales tax hike they proposed this year that Republicans blocked.
Democrats had earlier announced that they would try to rescind the recent increase in the vehicle license fee — or car tax — and make up for the lost revenue with income and tobacco tax increases. They said the state Constitution would let them do so by simple majority vote because there would be no net increase in revenue collected. They are now backing away from that idea.
County officials have until Sept. 10 to count the signatures on the petitions and send them to the California secretary of state's office, which then has about six weeks to verify the counts. If the state concludes that 600,000 valid signatures were submitted, the measure will appear on the ballot.
How can 1,000,000 people be so clueless? And look at who sponsored the petition, "A coalition of labor, liberal and government" that should be a clear sign of who/what those groups look out for! :mad:

HighRoller
08-28-2003, 08:20 AM
There are at least a million people in Cali who don't pay taxes so you know who signed it.They should have saved themselves the trouble and just do what Nevada did.Get a liberal judge to set aside the constitutional requirement for a super majority long enough to vote in a new tax.

Mandelon
08-28-2003, 08:37 AM
Well screw that! I am going to send in an application to the state for a job. Automatic raises, tenure, awesome benefits, can't get fired, don't have to work hard, free office supplies, and fat retirement package.!! :rolleyes:

OGShocker
08-28-2003, 08:37 AM
Be carefull or you will have SummerLove in here telling you why high taxes and bigger government is better for all of us. Once you get him started you can't shut him off.... Kinda like Janet Reno's vibrator....Hmmmm eek!

summerlove
08-28-2003, 08:58 AM
OGShocker:
Be carefull or you will have SummerLove in here telling you why high taxes and bigger government is better for all of us. Once you get him started you can't shut him off.... Kinda like Janet Reno's vibrator....Hmmmm eek! No comment! (I don't want to get my ass kicked again) But, the idea of lowering the threshold from 2/3 to 55% is not necessairly a bad thing. You see the problem is that eveybody wants no government involvement, they want to lower taxes, reduce government jobs (or at least maintain the status quo), and they want to make sure that they have police and fire protection, decent roads to drive, nice parks to take their kids, clean beaches and lakes to recreate, toilets that flush, lights that go on, superior military defense, and list goes on and on. Just like any business (or household), every year the cost of providing services goes up, yet we must deal with the limitations of revenue generation that many businesses don't have to worry about - like raise prices/rates/fees a little to cover the costs - kinda like the gas companies!
I think that we need to take a step back at times and think about the demands the public places on government, yet they don't want to raise taxes or fees to pay for it. It's a fine line. I also agree that there is alot of waste in government, and unfortunately, that gives it a black eye. I will say, however, that to use the argument that government ought to be run like a business is OK with me! I'll take my 401K @125%/$ like my wife, bonus', fancy parties, company stock, and the corporate jet! Sure, I'd love to go to work for her company! Oh yea, they pay a hell of alot better than government also. What do we get, a little more stability because the services we generall provide don't go away, like Police, fire, parks, libraries, etc. and a very good retirement package (which I happen to contribute to). To say we never get fired is a crock - I see it all the time.
So much for staying on the sidelines!
I'm holding on tight, so let me have it wink

Havasu_Dreamin
08-28-2003, 08:59 AM
OGShocker:
Be carefull or you will have SummerLove in here telling you why high taxes and bigger government is better for all of us. Once you get him started you can't shut him off.... Kinda like Janet Reno's vibrator....Hmmmm eek! While I may not agree with some of Rick's, Summerlove, feelings/opinions about the above mentioned, and other political topics, he's a good guy so really no need to bash him. He has always been very hospitable to me and my family and friends when cross paths in Havasu and has actually provided me some good advice on some things.

ROZ
08-28-2003, 09:07 AM
Havasu_Dreamin:
From today's New Democrat, errr, I mean the LA Times:
SACRAMENTO — A coalition of labor, liberal and government reform groups presented state officials with.... You don't need to read any further than this to see a fleecing of our states tax dollars a commin...

summerlove
08-28-2003, 09:27 AM
Havasu_Dreamin:
he's a good guy so really no need to bash him. He has always been very hospitable to me and my family and friends when cross paths in Havasu and has actually provided me some good advice on some things. Yea, like he said! Thanks Scott :D

058
08-28-2003, 09:37 AM
And with all the far left socialist in state govt. now this would be a slam dunk for them. We may as well just hand over our paychecks and save them the trouble. The new state tax form would be simplified...Line 1- How much did you make last year?...Line 2- Send in amount you reported on line 1. What a lot of people do not realize is the govt. gets tax increases on a daily basis. Sales tax, when prices go up so does sales tax. Now that gas is selling for $2.20/gal and sales tax is 8.5% the govt. is making alot more than when it was selling for $1.50/gal. and this money goes into the General fund, not the roads and hiways. Property tax is another good example since its under attack now. Prop 13 benefits anybody that owns a house regardless when you bought it because it limits the amount the county can raise your property tax. and since houses are selling for more than 10 times what they did when Prop. 13 was passed that means the tax collector is collecting 10 times what he collected 25 years ago even though the tax % rate is the same. Now factor in all the new houses built since Prop. 13 and all the new tax revenue collected just on those new houses. Warren Buffet be damned....go back to Omaha. :mad:

ROZ
08-28-2003, 09:49 AM
summerlove:
But, the idea of lowering the threshold from 2/3 to 55% is not necessairly a bad thing. It's bad if the majority is over 55%(can easliy be done in most states) or over...That's exactly why 2/3's was implemented yeaaaars ago....
summerlove:
I think that we need to take a step back at times and think about the demands the public places on government, yet they don't want to raise taxes or fees to pay for it. It's a fine line. I also agree that there is alot of waste in government, and unfortunately, that gives it a black eye. Flip it....If there wasn't SO much government waste, there may not be such a demand for the citizen's hard earned money...er um TAX DOLLARS.
summerlove:
What do we get, a little more stability because the services we generall provide don't go away, like Police, fire, parks, libraries, etc. and a very good retirement package (which I happen to contribute to). To say we never get fired is a crock - I see it all the time.
So much for staying on the sidelines!
I'm holding on tight, so let me have it wink I don't think most have any gripe about the services provided by the state. We do have a gripe about the total lack of accountability for the mismanagement of appropriated funds for said services...
Example....The head of the San Marcos schoolboard (one of the smallest in the county) is one of the highest paid in the county....WE ONLY HAVE ONE HIGHSCHOOL! Some of the decisions this freak has made are totally absurd.

Havasu_Dreamin
08-28-2003, 10:08 AM
summerlove:
Havasu_Dreamin:
he's a good guy so really no need to bash him. He has always been very hospitable to me and my family and friends when cross paths in Havasu and has actually provided me some good advice on some things. Yea, like he said! Thanks Scott :D No problem Rick, I try to call it how I see it.

summerlove
08-28-2003, 10:17 AM
Havasu_Dreamin:
summerlove:
Havasu_Dreamin:
he's a good guy so really no need to bash him. He has always been very hospitable to me and my family and friends when cross paths in Havasu and has actually provided me some good advice on some things. Yea, like he said! Thanks Scott :D No problem Rick, I try to call it how I see it. Thanks, would have shot you a 5'r for the umpeenth time but I can't! So here it is...
*****
Also, I had a reply, to 058 and ROZ, and since there's no use in arguing, we all have our opinions, and we're all a little stubborn, so, with that, I junked it. I think, though, that yes, things could be run more effeciently in all aspects of life, government included. With that,
SL - OUT!

058
08-28-2003, 10:29 AM
Summerlove, bring on your arguement, I'll listen to it. And if your arguement is compelling enough I may just change my mind but so far nobody has had a good enough arguement to do that. wink

summerlove
08-28-2003, 10:49 AM
058:
Summerlove, bring on your arguement, I'll listen to it. And if your arguement is compelling enough I may just change my mind but so far nobody has had a good enough arguement to do that. wink I'll think about it.... I have a reputation on these boards for my political opinions, and that's not really why I'm here. I really didn't like being compared to Janet Reno's personal helpers, but I laughed just the same. I do jump in, so it's my fault :rolleyes:
In any event, I really don't want anybody to change their mind as much as I want them to understand a little more the difficulties we face every day in addressing the desires of a demanding public. The old saying goes, "unless you've walked a mile in my shoes...." This is certainly true in this case.

OGShocker
08-28-2003, 11:27 AM
Havasu_Dreamin:
OGShocker:
Be carefull or you will have SummerLove in here telling you why high taxes and bigger government is better for all of us. Once you get him started you can't shut him off.... Kinda like Janet Reno's vibrator....Hmmmm eek! While I may not agree with some of Rick's, Summerlove, feelings/opinions about the above mentioned, and other political topics, he's a good guy so really no need to bash him. He has always been very hospitable to me and my family and friends when cross paths in Havasu and has actually provided me some good advice on some things. I was not
bashing anyone. I just knew (because SL debates so well) he would step in on this topic. He might very well be the nicest guy in the word. He is just wrong when it comes his opinion of me paying more than my share in taxes and supporting others with those funds better spent at the lake.
Now I will be bracing for the impact :D
OGS
[ August 28, 2003, 12:59 PM: Message edited by: OGShocker ]

Over 18
08-28-2003, 11:41 AM
you all are right--the government is too big. we should eliminate public schools, infrastructure, agencies and services (such as the MVD), fire departments, police stations, and city halls. while we're at it lets get rid of the military too. that way we can completely eliminate taxes

OGShocker
08-28-2003, 11:44 AM
Over 18:
you all are right--the government is too big. we should eliminate public schools, infrastructure, agencies and services (such as the MVD), fire departments, police stations, and city halls. while we're at it lets get rid of the military too. that way we can completely eliminate taxes You on the otherhand are a complete/nonsensical BOOB!
When you can expell anything other than bile from pie hole I will listen.

Over 18
08-28-2003, 11:50 AM
OGShocker:
Over 18:
you all are right--the government is too big. we should eliminate public schools, infrastructure, agencies and services (such as the MVD), fire departments, police stations, and city halls. while we're at it lets get rid of the military too. that way we can completely eliminate taxes You on the otherhand are a complete/nonsensical BOOB!
When you can expell anything other than bile from pie hole I will listen. what are you, a socialist?!

Mandelon
08-28-2003, 11:51 AM
Now that's just silly. No one here is advocating that. But we have all been frustrated watching the Caltrans crews that have 6 guys and only 1 shovel.....that is the kind of waste we hate.
Paying thousands for specialty products when off the shelf will do, paying for computer systems that do not work. Paying $400,000 for an AIDS memorial......
That kind of crap. yuk burningm We all need Police, Fire, Schools, Libraries, etc.

OGShocker
08-28-2003, 12:06 PM
Over 18:
OGShocker:
Over 18:
you all are right--the government is too big. we should eliminate public schools, infrastructure, agencies and services (such as the MVD), fire departments, police stations, and city halls. while we're at it lets get rid of the military too. that way we can completely eliminate taxes You on the otherhand are a complete/nonsensical BOOB!
When you can expell anything other than bile from pie hole I will listen. what are you, a socialist?! No. I just stated my opinion that YOU ARE A BOOB!