batteries....one more time

[nuboater]

Ok, last time I hope I have to post about this..
I am running 2 blue/marine optima's with a standard Mercuiser alternator..I have 2 fosgate amps running a single 12' Sub and4 pair's of 6x9's...my question's are...I know I shouldn't rely on the altenator, but...
1.How long does it take to re-charge the batteries by idling?
2.Is there any type of charger that runs off of the motor and charges the batteries while driving?
Someday I'll switch over to the 6 volt systems, but until then I'm stuck with the Optima's..

[Boozer]

nuboater:
Ok, last time I hope I have to post about this..
I am running 2 blue/marine optima's with a standard Mercuiser alternator..I have 2 fosgate amps running a single 12' Sub and4 pair's of 6x9's...my question's are...I know I shouldn't rely on the altenator, but...
1.How long does it take to re-charge the batteries by idling?
2.Is there any type of charger that runs off of the motor and charges the batteries while driving?
Someday I'll switch over to the 6 volt systems, but until then I'm stuck with the Optima's.. 1. Hard to say. Depends on the amperage that the alternator puts out. But prolly no more then 15-20 minutes.
2. That's what an alternator does.
Are you killing your batteries really fast or what? How are the batteries wired to the alternator? How many watts are you running amp wise?

[Hallett19]

If you already dont have one, get a perko switch and run it off of one battery then go to the other to start, then to both to run off of. I have 2 BIG interstate deep cycles and the other night running my neons,nav lights and stereo for almost 3 hours, went to start my boat, smoked one batter down so low, the 4ch amp turned off eek! Thank God I put it on one batter and started off the other :)

[77charger]

nuboater:
Ok, last time I hope I have to post about this..
I am running 2 blue/marine optima's with a standard Mercuiser alternator..I have 2 fosgate amps running a single 12' Sub and4 pair's of 6x9's...my question's are...I know I shouldn't rely on the altenator, but...
1.How long does it take to re-charge the batteries by idling?
2.Is there any type of charger that runs off of the motor and charges the batteries while driving?
Someday I'll switch over to the 6 volt systems, but until then I'm stuck with the Optima's.. 1-Depends on the amp out put of the alternator and batt size(amp hours)EX if you alt puts out 40 amps idleing and your battery is a 120 amp hour model and is completly dead it could take up to 3 hrs.I think the mercruiser alternator is a 55 amp model?
2- not that i know of but a high output alternator would be the best thing 100 amp or bigger.

[Boozer]

Hallett19:
If you already dont have one, get a perko switch and run it off of one battery then go to the other to start, then to both to run off of. I have 2 BIG interstate deep cycles and the other night running my neons,nav lights and stereo for almost 3 hours, went to start my boat, smoked one batter down so low, the 4ch amp turned off eek! Thank God I put it on one batter and started off the other :) Will this perko switch also work as an isolator as well?

[ROZ]

Boozer:
Hallett19:
If you already dont have one, get a perko switch and run it off of one battery then go to the other to start, then to both to run off of. I have 2 BIG interstate deep cycles and the other night running my neons,nav lights and stereo for almost 3 hours, went to start my boat, smoked one batter down so low, the 4ch amp turned off eek! Thank God I put it on one batter and started off the other :) Will this perko switch also work as an isolator as well? Cha Ching on the Perko...Not an Isolator. You can charge or discharge each battery seperately, or parallel when in the all position. Adding an isolator would be of benefit. No matter what position is selected on the perko, an isolator will charge all batteries.
Just like Aaron said, run the system off one battery and use the other battey for starting only. Just be sure to remember to turn the dial to the battery you're using at rest so you don't end up looking for a jump after you run em both down....
You can probably find one at Rex Marine...
[ May 30, 2003, 05:19 PM: Message edited by: ROZ ]

[nuboater]

I am runniong a Perko and what's happening is I run 1 until the amp's start clipping then I switch to the other...my problem is that I only have about 2 hours of playing time when the motor is not running.
I am running a Fosgate 1000.2 using only 1 channel..I think 700 watts?? The other is a Fosgate 800.4 I think that one is putting out about 800 watts.
I always thought you shouldn't use the alternator to charge the batteries??
Sould I add another Optima and a seperate starting battery?? Does that make sense?

[Eric455]

i'm running 2 group 27 marine batts. with a marine 110. alternator. i have 2 10" subs. (1500watts each) 4 6/9's 100 watts each. and i have no poblem leaving the system on for a good 0 ins before starting. just make sure ur alternator is charging. once you hit the peddle trust me ur batteies wil get filesup.
eric

[Eric455]

2 hours of play time!!! i wouldnt do that if i were you. at most an hour if you forget but run the motor every 45 mins to bring thing back to normal. no you dont need to add another batery for starting. thats just anther headace.
eric

[nuboater]

How can I tell if my alternator is charging?
Where can I pick up a high output alternator? How much do they cost?
If I am runniong the 2 Optima's just for the stereo how long should I run it and why..

[Tom Brown]

nuboater:
Someday I'll switch over to the 6 volt systems, but until then I'm stuck with the Optima's.. Optimas will do you long time, Joe. :cool:
There's no way you can recharge two flat optimas at idle in 20 minutes.
Here's a couple of options to think about:
cheap - get a (relatively) cheap starting battery and a battery isolator. Tie the two blue Optimas together and have them do nothing more than run the stereo. The battery isolator will do it's best to keep everything charged up.
- Get a third blue Optima, an isolator, and a Perko. This would be the same as the above setup, except you would have even more power to give to the stereo if you want to dip into your starting power reserves.
I would be surprised if your boat is keeping your batteries charged. Are you charging them at home before you go out for the weekend? You should be.
-- Tom

[Eric455]

i like that idea. and yes charge the batteries at home before and after the trip. its keeps them fresh. i do so.
eric

[Eric455]

almost forgot. how have ya been tom. hope ya felling good. are you gonna be at OP6C? take care
eric

[Fat Chance]

With your current set up, and not wanting to go the 6V route, I would run your two optima's in parallel to Bat. 1 of a perko for your amp and stereo, and run a third optima to Bat. 2 on the perko for your starting and running. You'll have good reserve for the tunes, and can isolate and charge what ever battery bank you wish.

[Fat Chance]

I would say though, for the price of one Optima, you could pick up a couple of Trojan 6V's

[mickeyfinn]

Well my understanding is that if yo discharge your battery you will NEVER recharge the battery completely by depending on the alternator. The alternator is meant to supply energy to devices using energy while maintaining your battery. Repeatedly discharging your battery and using the alternator to recharge them will shorten the life of both the battery and the alternator. The exception to this is if the battery which has been discharged is isolated from all electrical loads while charging. If you continue to place a load on the system while charging you will shorten the life spans. The best system is to have 2 batteries. When one is discharged allow the alternator to charge it while you run off of the other one.

[Havasu Hangin']

mickeyfinn:
Well my understanding is that if yo discharge your battery you will NEVER recharge the battery completely by depending on the alternator....Well, I'll have to politely disagree.
You are correct that the alternator is meant to maintain, but as a dedicated system, it is also meant to recharge. For example, when you start your boat, you have discharged the battery (even if it just a little). It is the job of the alternator and regulator to bring it back up and maintain it.
Bringing a battery down because of long periods of extended draw (mixing margaritas for the whole sandbar, playing the stereo, etc.) are just the same only on a larger scale.
I agree that multiple batteries are best in a boat, as most of us spend time in the boat without the engine running- how often do we do that in a car?
However, that gives you more storage...that's all. The alternator is more than capable of bringing a dead battery back up...but your right...the candle that burns twice as bright lasts half as long- the alternator will also generate more heat...shortening it's life.
So, IMHO, it comes down to HABITS.
How often do you play the stereo without the engine running, and how often do you run the engine afterward? The math is pretty simple.
What are the watts the amps are producing, and what class amps are they?
Keep in mind that Optimas do not like a quick charge- most guys will kill them by putting them on an automotive charger. Perhaps your Optimas are not happy campers.
Although some guys like the 6 volt trick, they do have drawbacks. Yes, they are cheaper than Optimas, but they are bigger an heavier. Two Trojan 6 volt 105's weighs about 130lbs, while 3 Optimas weigh about the same, but give you more volts (13.2 vs 12 volts). Keep in mind watts = volts x amps. More volts = louder stereo. Also, my boat still has scars from water (acid) leaking with my old lead-acid batteries...I can't imagine how much acid is given off during a quick charge on those Trojans.
We spend thousands on our stereos...why skimp on the stock batteries or alternator?
Just my opinion- I've been wrong before.
[ May 30, 2003, 09:18 PM: Message edited by: Havasu Hangin' ]

[nuboater]

I chargge them up woth a automotive type charger berfore every trip....Teh sub amp is class b/d and I'm not sure on the other one.
And as far as the habts go....jam up to the dam float down running the stereo (loud) the whole way ...go to Fox's then back to the campground (castlerock shores) then maybe later in the day make a final run down to the dam and back up.

[Havasu Hangin']

nuboater:
I chargge them up woth a automotive type charger berfore every trip....Make sure you don't heat them up..the slower charge will probabaly make them last longer. It may be time for some new ones, if they've lost some capacity...
nuboater:
Teh sub amp is class b/d and I'm not sure on the other one.How many watts?
I'll assume about 1000 watts on the sub amp, and 800 watts of slass a/b for the componenets.
At 80% efficiency, the sub amp probabaly draws around 91 amps, and an 800 watt class a/b at 60% effiency will draw around 97 amps (at clipping speed). So I would guess that you are drawing around 100-150 amps at ear-splitting levels.
nuboater:
...jam up to the dam float down running the stereo (loud) the whole way ...go to Fox's then back to the campground (castlerock shores) then maybe later in the day make a final run down to the dam and back up. Now, your poor little 55 amp alternator will probabaly put out 20 amps or so at idle. Without being a math major, you can see it'll take a long time to make a dent in those drained batteries.
Most guys try to get thier alternators re-wound 'cause it's cheaper. However, while it will give you more output, it will make less of an increase at idle. The larger high-output alternators have bigger rotors and stators, which generally give a higher output at lower RPMs.
For example, my 100 amp high-output marine alternator puts out around 60 amps at 1,500 RPMs.
Also, keep in mind that heat will make an alternator put out less amps. The resistance builds. Unlike a car, there is no air flowing over most boat alternators.
Based on how you use it, I'd increase your storage, and go with a bigger alternator (if you haven't already). The more batteries you add, the bigger load it is on the alternator.
Or go with the "unlimited battery"...a small generator!

[1stepcloser]

Yeah, what he said... :confused:

[nuboater]

What doies it put out say at 4000 rpm's?

[Havasu Hangin']

nuboater:
What doies it put out say at 4000 rpm's? Most alternators are probabaly putting out close to thier full capacity by 4,000 RPMs.
However, like I mentioned earlier, if your 55 amp alternator was bench tested at 75 degrees, and now it's up to 150 degrees, it won't put out 55 amps in the big heat- ever.
I've come to the conclusion that alternators are rated like stereo equipment. On a bench is one thing (temperature conditions), the real world is another.
So, if it were me, I'd consider a big alternator, and maybe another Optima. For how you use it, I would think the $600 (or so) you spend will be worth it in headache relief.
Everything is a tradeoff (added weight and lost space). Also, it won't solve the problem, but it will delay it. The only way to guarantee virtually unlimited strong batteries is with a generator- just don't run out of gas.
Talk to Partycat- I think he's putting a gererator in.
[ May 31, 2003, 09:56 AM: Message edited by: Havasu Hangin' ]

[TrojanDan]

Havasu Hangin'
Keep in mind that Optimas do not like a quick charge- most guys will kill them by putting them on an automotive charger. How many amps do you recommend charging the Optimas at? I charge my Optimas at 15 amps for about 6-8 hours each day I run my boat. The batteries are usually only around 1/2 - 3/4 drained. Not completely drained.

[Havasu Hangin']

TrojanDan:
How many amps do you recommend charging the Optimas at? On a charger, Optima recommends 10 amps max for 8 hours max. You can go with a boost charge, but only for 2 hours.
I'm not a battery expert, but over the years, it seems like heat kills my batteries. So personally, I just don't charge them at a rate that heats them up too much.
I use a 6 amp (3 stage) Guest marine charger, that puts a 1/2 amp trickle charge on them when they are full (indefinate maintenance). I really like that charger, because I can throw it on over night and forget about it.
Guest also makes a 10 amp model.
[ May 31, 2003, 03:48 PM: Message edited by: Havasu Hangin' ]

[77charger]

One thing i have seen is that people want to put 2 optimas and 1 starting battery.IMO if you are going to put 3 in your boat i'd rather put 2 6 volts in series(golf cart batteries)You can get 2 for the price of 1 optima but the amp hours will be more than 2 optimas and these battires are very durable can be drained to empty and recharged quickly

[Freak]

http://www.odysseybatteries.com/
Odyessey batts are military spec. They have one that is 1700cca's and it's deep cycle with a 10yr shelf life. No one else has anything close. Use one Opti for starts and 2 odysseys for your tunes.
Get a hd alt. 120amp. The alt will use a few more hp but it is worth it. I think I got mine from powermaster. Go with the slow charge HH is right the fast charge will stress the batts. Most of the better deep cycle batts come with charging instructions.
[ May 31, 2003, 04:47 PM: Message edited by: Freak ]

[nuboater]

I have credit at the Bass Pro Shops and need to get a marine type charger....If you get a chance to check out his link let me know which one you think would benefit me...I will need one that will charge a total of 3 batteries.
Bass Pro Shops.,..charger (http://www.basspro-shops.com/servlet/catalog.SubClass?hvarDept=200&hvarEvent=&hvarClassCode=3&hvarSubCode=4)
I saw this high output alternator on ebay for 60.00 let me know what you think about this too.x
Alternator on Ebay (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2931743490&category=1467)

[nuboater]

What should I use to measure the voltage in my batteries....a meter?

[spectratoad]

There was a pretty good battery thread on here awhile back and FroggyStyle gave a pretty good example of his set-up, diagrams and all.

[Havasu Hangin']

nuboater:
I have credit at the Bass Pro Shops and need to get a marine type charger....If you get a chance to check out his link let me know which one you think would benefit me...I like that XPS 5/5/5 charger. Pretty safe for Optimas. I ended up with that Guest portable ($59.99) because I wanted the flexibility of being able to pull a battery out and plug it in, even if my boat was in the parking lot of a hotel. With the permanant-mounted ones, it might be difficult to plug it in in certain cases (like on the water).
Once again, it depends on how you use your boat, and where you park it.
The cheapest 100 amp marine alternator I found was around $200...so that ebay one looks like a good deal. However, I'd check out the seller's claims very carefully.
A voltmeter will measure your battery voltage, but may not show if it's lost some capacity. How old are they?

[nuboater]

They are pretty new...around 3 trips and 3 charges.
If the Optima's can handle a 10 amp charge would the 10/10/10 $199.00 be a better/quicker charger?
what should I look for in a marine alternator??

[Havasu Hangin']

nuboater:
If the Optima's can handle a 10 amp charge would the 10/10/10 $199.00 be a better/quicker charger?According to the specs, if one battery is lower than the other, the lower battery has the potential to recieve more than 10 amps (say...5/15). That's why I thought the 5 amp would be safer. How long it would stay above 10 amps is the unknown.
Either one of those will probably require an overnight charge.
nuboater:
what should I look for in a marine alternator?? The output is most important. Ask about what it puts out at what RPMs, and what conditions (temp) those readings were taken at. The more output at lower RPMs the better. Also, I wouldn't change the pulley size to speed it up unless your top-end RPM is less than the maximum recommended.
When you change the alternator, don't forget to change to a beefy 4 gauge wire to handle the added amps.

[nuboater]

When wiring 2 batteries to one side of the perko does anything happen to the voltage....2 batteries hooked up = 24 volts? Can anyone post a simple wiring diagram?

[silver surfer]

switched to two stinger 1700 cranking amps, can handle the discharge, and they recharge quickly.I can run the stereo for 4-6 hours with little discharge. Got rid of the 4 six volt set up. No way the alternator could charge them. I run a full charge at 40 amps for one half hour and the batteries are good to go.

[Froggystyle]

Sounds like lots of good advice to me.
My .02 however... My Trojans that I am running now flat dust all of the Optimas that came before them. No contest... not even close. They are a little heavier, but well worth the weight. The amp hour rating makes Optimas look like hearing aid power. I have zero fluid leaks, and they don't heat up noticeably.
That being said, they also like a higher rate of charge. 25 amps per in fact. I charge my bank of 4 at 60 amps and it takes generally about 8 hours to fill them up from flat. These batteries are designed to be used in the manner we are using them. All the way down, and all the way up every day, and quickly.
Alternators on stereo batteries are for the most part useless. They will not be used for long enough to do any real charging, and running at full amperage is hard on them. In addition, you will be dropping the overall voltage on your charging system by adding in a dead battery. So much so, that your ignition system may not want to work properly, and your alternator may consider the 9 volt load a dead short and not charge to protect itself.
For the money you would spend on another Optima, get two Trojan 6 volts and a good automatic charger. I have yet to see this combination result in anything but smiles.
If you have any other questions, feel free to drop me an e-mail. I am not on here that much lately.

[Froggystyle]

silver surfer:
switched to two stinger 1700 cranking amps, can handle the discharge, and they recharge quickly.I can run the stereo for 4-6 hours with little discharge. Got rid of the 4 six volt set up. No way the alternator could charge them. I run a full charge at 40 amps for one half hour and the batteries are good to go. Hard to believe. A full charge at 40 amps is approximately 20 amp hours. My stereo goes through that in 15 minutes. If you can get them up to full capacity in 30 minutes at 40 amp/hours, that means your stereo is drawing... lets see... 4 hours, divided by 20 amps... 5 amps.
Dome lights damn near consume that much. Either you are not getting a full charge, or you are not pushing more than a walkman with those batteries.
RE-think the math. Small stereo systems draw 20 amps. That is about 30 minutes play time with your charge. My guess is, they are not topping all the way off, and by a long shot.

[woodster]

Hey Wes can u post that drawing u had on here before? Im switching over for sure. I killed ONe battery this weekend and switch over to the other and barley got the boat started. Thought i was gonna have to get towed. I think im going to go with 2 6 volts for the stereo and leave the 12 volt for starting.

[uvindex]

When wiring 2 batteries to one side of the perko does anything happen to the voltage....2 batteries hooked up = 24 volts? Can anyone post a simple wiring diagram? Even when both batteries are in use, they're wired in parallel (not series), and therefore still supplying 12V.
Perko, on their site, has several wiring diagrams for their switches. Go to www.perko.com (http://www.perko.com) and search by keyword "wiring diagram" to see some. Or, on the site you can go to Perko Catalog, Electrical, Battery Selector Switches to see the same thing.
Good luck. :)

[Froggystyle]

Havasu Hangin':
At 80% efficiency, the sub amp probabaly draws around 91 amps, and an 800 watt class a/b at 60% effiency will draw around 97 amps (at clipping speed). So I would guess that you are drawing around 100-150 amps at ear-splitting levels.
I know that the math is the math... but reality is reality. My 1400 watt system has drawn at it's very max 65 amps during heavy bass hits. At full volume, my amp meter I installed on the supply line from my batteries dances between 25 and 60 amps for the most part. I average the system at 40 amps/hour, and it adds up on the charging side. I get over 10 hours of play with my rig, and it takes between 6 and 8 hours to get all the way back up to full on all 4.
I don't know where all of the amp math with regard to wattage came from, but I have found even the most conservative ratings of 10 amps per 100 watts to be outlandish.
Just my experience...

[Froggystyle]

woodster:
Hey Wes can u post that drawing u had on here before? Im switching over for sure. I killed ONe battery this weekend and switch over to the other and barley got the boat started. Thought i was gonna have to get towed. I think im going to go with 2 6 volts for the stereo and leave the 12 volt for starting. Let me know. I can invoke the Frankenstein policy here if I want you know... I created that monster, I get to fix it!
BTW, check out Lightnings rig. It is probably exactly what you want to end up with. I dig the boxes we used on his.
[ June 03, 2003, 05:55 PM: Message edited by: Froggystyle ]

[silver surfer]

I'll rethink the math, but my seven triple A batteries help to recharge the "walkman."

[airtrapper]

Like "FREAK" said, I vote for the Odyssey batteries,the PC1700's. Forget everything else.
http://www.odysseybatteries.com

[Havasu Hangin']

Why don't you guys just go with 16 volt batteries? You won't have to turn it up so loud...
BTW...my Optima setup has never let me down. 2 deep cycles and a starting battery. 2,000+ watts of pure Tugboat raw polka fury.

[woodster]

Froggystyle:
woodster:
Hey Wes can u post that drawing u had on here before? Im switching over for sure. I killed ONe battery this weekend and switch over to the other and barley got the boat started. Thought i was gonna have to get towed. I think im going to go with 2 6 volts for the stereo and leave the 12 volt for starting. Let me know. I can invoke the Frankenstein policy here if I want you know... I created that monster, I get to fix it!
BTW, check out Lightnings rig. It is probably exactly what you want to end up with. I dig the boxes we used on his. Hey lightning if you read this can u please post some pics of your setup.I did a search but couldnt find the post.. Wes ill let you know. Can u PM me with a price? Im thinking i need to do it soon.. IM going on house boat 4th of july and wanna do it before then.. Thanks

[nuboater]

HH- with the set up you are running...How long can you run before they are drained? How loud are you you playing?

[Havasu Hangin']

nuboater:
HH- with the set up you are running...How long can you run before they are drained? How loud are you you playing? They are only two years old...I've never ran them down completely (even after a couple hours).
Then again, I don't use my boat as the "floating disco". Also, I usually don't stay in one place all day, either.
Medium to high volume...depends on the boats around me (someone is always louder).
If I only draw 65 amps...then I guess I wasted my money on 2 gauge cable.

[rivercrazy]

I just wire up 12 D cells in parallel and Im good to go all damn day! hehe
Im running about 1700 watts and 2 optimas have never let me down yet. And the batteries are over 2 years old
I treat them well though. 5 amp charge on a multi stage automatic charger and Im not afraid to drive my boat. I rarely take the 5 minute idle from the ramp to the beach and park it for the day

[XFactor]

airtrapper:
Like "FREAK" said, I vote for the Odyssey batteries,the PC1700's. Forget everything else.
http://www.odysseybatteries.com 2 PC1700's isolated for 4000 watts of stereo and I haven't killed them yet. I run them at 1/3 volume for hours and an occasional song at ear-piercing volume and then recharge fully each night. They are awesome....so far :D :D

[XFactor]

airtrapper:
Like "FREAK" said, I vote for the Odyssey batteries,the PC1700's. Forget everything else.
http://www.odysseybatteries.com 2 PC1700's isolated for 4000 watts of stereo and I haven't killed them yet. I run them at 1/3 volume for hours and an occasional song at ear-piercing volume and then recharge fully each night. They are awesome....so far :D :D

[ROZ]

Havasu Hangin'
If I only draw 65 amps...then I guess I wasted my money on 2 gauge cable. [/QB]Seems weird..We metered at more than that with 2 big amps...
Never heard of the 10 amps per 100 watt rule either, but now that I think of it JL's are rated like that...It must have been a Jeff scoon, PPI, Xtant, JL thing. wink ... something new every day....
I always thought it was watts/voltage = amps or amps x voltage = watts....er something like that... wink

[nuboater]

...Stupid question, but here goes
When I hook up my 2 batteries that are hooked up pos to ps & neg to neg and then to #1 of the perko, and then my 3rd battery hooked up to motor and to # 2 of the perko....How do the batteries get charged by the alternator??
If I have missed a wire or something let me know.

[Havasu Hangin']

Froggystyle:
I don't know where all of the amp math with regard to wattage came from, but I have found even the most conservative ratings of 10 amps per 100 watts to be outlandish.The math I use is pure voodoo...nothing more. That watts = volts x amps/efficiency or P=I*E (Ohm's Law) is very unproven in physics...
So, if I crack the old manual on my JBL 1200.1, it says a max current draw of 114 amps. Now, since that amp was bench-tested at 1,300 watts @ 13.2 volts, that would mean that the max current draw at 85% efficiency should be 115 amps.
Good god! Those idiots at JBL are also using that voodoo math too (ohm's law)! When will they learn....they need to use the Froggy math!
nuboater:
When I hook up my 2 batteries that are hooked up pos to ps & neg to neg and then to #1 of the perko, and then my 3rd battery hooked up to motor and to # 2 of the perko....How do the batteries get charged by the alternator?? Your alternator is wired to the positive side of the starter. Therefore, whichever battery (or batteries) your Perko switch is turned on, that's the one that gets charged.
I run 2 Perko switches, just because I'm a control freak.

[Froggystyle]

ROZ:
Havasu Hangin'
If I only draw 65 amps...then I guess I wasted my money on 2 gauge cable. Seems weird..We metered at more than that with 2 big amps...
Never heard of the 10 amps per 100 watt rule either, but now that I think of it JL's are rated like that...It must have been a Jeff scoon, PPI, Xtant, JL thing. wink ... something new every day....
I always thought it was watts/voltage = amps or amps x voltage = watts....er something like that... wink [/QB]Not saying anyone isn't pulling amperage obviously. I have no idea what people are running, or how much power it is pulling.
All I am saying is, that my system pulls a maximum draw of 65 amps at full throttle. And Roz, you have heard it. Not quiet.
BTW, that is with a digital amp meter rated for 100 amp load for testing welders. You bolt it straight in line with the batteries.
The benefit I see with 2 gauge is not in current handling, but in lack of resistance at a given load. By providing less resistance, you decrease the lag between bass hits. Bigger cable prevents need for a cap in my opinion.
I am completely talking out my ass here regarding cable size. I am running 2 gauge as well, but for the reason stated above. In any case, you get the idea.

[rivercrazy]

Power cable is the most important part of the wiring in mobile audio.
Too small and you loose power to the amps.
Its similar to water trying to move though a hose. The longer and skinner the hose, the less water can get through.
2 gauge is whimpy stuff. Get the 1/0! hehe :D :D

[nuboater]

So when it's on "all" both batteries are charging?

[Froggystyle]

nuboater:
So when it's on "all" both batteries are charging? Yes.

[Tom Brown]

Froggystyle:
The benefit I see with 2 gauge is not in current handling, but in lack of resistance at a given load. By providing less resistance, you decrease the lag between bass hits.http://www.havasubarney.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/eh.gif
Resistance inhibits current. Reducing the resistance will increase the current carrying capability and, therefore, power handling capacity of the cable. :)
[ June 04, 2003, 10:47 PM: Message edited by: Tom Brown ]

[Havasu Hangin']

Tom Brown:
Froggystyle:
The benefit I see with 2 gauge is not in current handling, but in lack of resistance at a given load. By providing less resistance, you decrease the lag between bass hits.http://www.havasubarney.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/eh.gif
Resistance inhibits current. Reducing the resistance will increase the current carrying capability and, therefore, power handling capacity of the cable. Tom...that sounds like voodoo math to me.
Maybe I should just use some 10 guage wire (to handle the 65 amp draw), and a couple farads in caps...then my bass will hit quicker!
Right? http://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies/happy/1/happy36.gif

[SD MIKEY]

nuboater:
So when it's on "all" both batteries are charging? Yes both are charging.
I dont ever connect batteries together,(unless bought at same time and wired together since new) which ever battery is the weaker one always brings the other one down. I have 4 batteries and 2 perkos. Just what I have been told, My .02 if thats worth anything?
[ June 05, 2003, 12:23 AM: Message edited by: SD MIKEY ]

[ROZ]

Wes, I know your system rocks. From the install to the output, I never said it didn't. You went above and beyond the call of duty in providing your music for the masses. Lots of things to take into account...impedance, voltage, bridged, fuse, ga wire, length of runs, etc. in getting the high current.
:)
Did you mean full throttle as in volume, or while running the boat?

[nuboater]

I think I am running into a problem....
I have always heard not to switch the perko while the motor is running...Do I wait until I park and then switch...When the switch is on the stereo side I can't start the motor.

[Havasu Hangin']

nuboater:
I have always heard not to switch the perko while the motor is running...Do I wait until I park and then switch...The Perko switch does not interupt the circuit when switching between batteries. However, if you accidentally hit "off"...then it will turn off the batteries, and will probabaly fry the diodes in the alternator. To be safe, you can switch it while parked.
nuboater:
When the switch is on the stereo side I can't start the motor. Sounds like the batteries may be wired wrong. Perhaps you have your starting battery and starter cable reversed.

[nuboater]

I have it wired this way...
2 batteries that are only for the stereo wired pos to pos & neg to neg with a wire going off of the pos on one directly to #1 on the perko..the ground from one of these batteries going to the 3rd battery that has it's positive going to the other side of the perko.

[Froggystyle]

Sounds like you need to ground the first pair of batteries to the engine block. What is happenning, from the description I just drew out in my head, is that when "both" is switched on the Perko, you have a complete, three battery circuit. When "2" is switched, you have a complete one battery circuit, but since your third battery is actually your path to ground as well, when you shut the circuit, something is going haywire with that ground as well.
I dunno. In any case, all batteries should go to a common, engine ground.
Actually, it should still work, but I would start there and troubleshoot from there.
[ June 05, 2003, 08:53 AM: Message edited by: Froggystyle ]

[ROZ]

http://www.perko.com/images/bat3.gif
Should be like diagram #1 only your #1 selector has 2 batts in parallel.
Hope this helps....

[H2on22]

Hey Nuboater,
I had the same questions about the batt set-up and I followed FroggyStyle's advice and he really hooked me up.
I run 2 Trojan 6 volts in parallel just for the stereo and 2 Trojan 12 volt deep cycle starting batts for the rest of the boat systems. I have them hooked up to the Perko and a Guest charger w/an offshore power hook-up. I run my ride to destination (10-15 min) then switch to the stereo batts and run them for 6-8 hrs. Then switch back and to start up and go home. At night I just plug it in the wall and she's ready to go in the morning. The Guest charger is the shit! Paid less than $300 for it and it is a 30 watt charger (20 to stereo batts and 5 and 5 to starting batts) It's a 3 stage charger that WILL NOT hurt your batts. Not a trickle charger. You can leave it on for as long as you like and it will maintain the charge. I leave it on for a week then take it off and on.
Big Props to FroggyStyle for the advice :D it worked out great.

[Tom Brown]

H2on22:
I run 2 Trojan 6 volts in parallel just for the stereo...You run your stereo on 6 volts?

[ROZ]

Tom Brown:
H2on22:
I run 2 Trojan 6 volts in parallel just for the stereo...You run your stereo on 6 volts? Don't get technical now Tom :p :D
I'm sure he meant to say in series...
H2, Parallel doesn't change the voltage only adds reserve capacity. Series is what bumps up the voltage. Wiring batteries and wiring apeakers to amps are 2 different beasts. Just like 6 6volt batteries looped in a golfcart to make 36 volts.

[H2on22]

Tom Brown
QUOTE]You run your stereo on 6 volts? [/QB]No you are right, series not parallel.

[Tom Brown]

Yeah, I was pretty sure that's what you meant. ROZ is right, I was just being weird.
It's all about good tunes on the water. :)
[ June 05, 2003, 11:51 PM: Message edited by: Tom Brown ]

[ROZ]

Tom Brown:
Yeah, that's what I thought. ROZ is right, I was just being weird. As long as you enjoy your system... :) LOL....you wierd?....lol :D
Glad to see you're keeping on top of things around here. Someone has to wink
[ June 05, 2003, 11:52 PM: Message edited by: ROZ ]

[nuboater]

H2--
Thanks for jumpin in....
Can you post some pics of the set up?
los, if you run batteries in parallel and hook up to a charger will they both automatically charge?

[Essex502]

Where can you get Trojan batteries?

[H2on22]

Essex502:
Where can you get Trojan batteries? Froggystyle hooked me up with...
Shane Smith of Sunbelt Battery
(800) 351-1600
He is in AZ, but they have a bunch of stores and I'm sure will ship out. Great prices and cool guy to deal with. Tell them Wes sent you (sure he won't mind)
They are the T-105 -6 volt golf cart batts for about $65 a piece.
As for pics... just lost my brand new digital camera but, here are pics from Froggy's boat.
Mind you that he used 4-6 volts and I am using only 2. He can run his shiznit all day and night w/out recharging. It's like a nuk plant or something :confused:
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/278battery_pics-med.jpg
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/278battery_diagram-med.jpg
Great diagram, but it's not mine...all Froggy's.
Hey Wes when can we see the new boat design?

[Essex502]

Good info! Checked Trojan's website and they have a dealer locator there. Thanks.