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hd&boatrider
10-03-2003, 06:51 AM
VictimsÂ’ families retain CO specialists
By Brian Wedemeyer
The families of two Southern California men who drowned in Bridgewater Channel this past summer have retained a law firm that specializes in carbon monoxide poisoning from ski boats.
The Redlands, Calif., law firm Welebir and McCune confirmed that it has started gathering evidence for wrongful death cases against what likely could be several defendants, including Lake Havasu City, Mohave County and some boat manufacturers.
“We have just been retained, so we want to make sure that the defendants who are eventually named are the proper ones,” attorney Douglas Welebir said Thursday. “And we don’t want to miss any.
“A person who is enjoying the outdoors, just walking through or standing in the water, should not have to die because of his choice of recreation,” he said.
The law firm is representing the families of Mark Tostado, 31, who drowned in the Channel over Memorial Day weekend, and Timothy Eugene Heck, 26, who drowned over Labor Day weekend.
The Channel, which attracts hundreds of boaters on busy summer weekends, has been the subject of growing concerns about carbon monoxide poisoning from boat exhaust. Carbon monoxide has been linked to at least three deaths at or near the Channel since 2001.
An autopsy determined that carbon monoxide was a secondary cause of death in TostadoÂ’s drowning. However, a blood sample that could have provided more clues about HeckÂ’s death was destroyed in a Las Vegas laboratory, a medical examiner told TodayÂ’s News-Herald last week.
“It is difficult to believe that a forensic laboratory handling blood samples and other evidentiary matters could destroy or throw out evidence that is so important,” Welebir said. “We are only beginning to explore our options in that regard.”
Dr. Donald Nelson, who performs autopsies for Mohave County, last week said the color of HeckÂ’s skin and blood was not consistent with carbon monoxide poisoning.
“From a clinical standpoint, I don’t think carbon monoxide had anything to do with his death,” Nelson said.
Welebir disputes NelsonÂ’s claim, saying those are not factors in confirming the majority of carbon monoxide poisonings.
Robert Baron, a Phoenix doctor involved in a nationwide investigation of carbon monoxide poisoning from boats, also disagreed with NelsonÂ’s finding. He said red blood or tissues are detected in only a small fraction of carbon monoxide victims.
“... if you use redness to make the diagnosis, you will be missing 98 percent of the people who actually have it,” Baron said.
Welebir and McCune also represent the family of Stacey Beckett, who died of carbon monoxide poisoning at age 15 after “teak surfing” behind a MasterCraft ski boat in Mexico in July 2000. The family later filed a wrongful death lawsuit against MasterCraft Boat Co., attracting national media attention.
A Superior Court judge in San Bernardino County dismissed the suit, citing a law that prevents compensation for victims who die more than 12 miles off the U.S. coastline. The Beckett family has appealed the ruling.
The law firm also represents the family of 11-year-old Anthony Farr, who died from carbon monoxide poisoning while teak surfing on a lake near Sacramento, Calif.
In June, Welebir and McCune filed a class-action lawsuit against several boat manufacturers, alleging that they havenÂ’t done enough to reduce emissions or warn boaters about the danger.
“We cannot believe the manufacturers continue to fight against doing something as simple as putting a warning on the backs of their boats,” said attorney Richard McCune. “Both the Becketts and the Farrs have been boating for thousands of hours, and they had no idea of the danger behind their boat. That’s just not acceptable.”
Officials with the National Marine Manufacturers Association in Washington, D.C. could not be reached Thursday for comment.
At the request of a local emergency room doctor, the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health tested for carbon monoxide presence in Bridgewater Channel over Labor Day weekend in 2002. A report was provided to the city last December calling for more thorough testing.
In April, the City Council agreed to hire a private consultant to conduct a summer-long air quality evaluation in the Channel. The council is expected to review the consultantÂ’s final report sometime next month.
The city also started a public awareness campaign prior to Memorial Day weekend warning boaters about possible carbon monoxide poisoning.
McCune described the city’s efforts to warn the public as “woeful and inadequate.”
“Five thousand pamphlets for 40,000 people just doesn’t add up,” McCune said.
Earlier this month, a local radio news network published a copy of a report by the Arizona Department of Health Services dated June 18 — which determined that a public health hazard existed over Memorial Day weekend. That same weekend, a recreational diver discovered Tostado’s body.
City officials said they were unaware the state report existed.
“These families want some answers,” McCune said. “And the answers they are getting now are completely unsatisfactory.”
You may contact the reporter at bwedemeyer@havasunews.com.
[ October 05, 2003, 07:21 PM: Message edited by: hd&boatrider ]

HCS
10-03-2003, 07:03 AM
Centurion boats have come out with a new exhaust
called sideswipes.
The exhaust dumps out the side of the boat.
There's a pic in Waterski mag.
So now you can't swim next to the boat with the motor running. :rolleyes:
Maybe they should put platforms on the sides of the boat. boxed

HOOTER SLED-
10-03-2003, 07:06 AM
End result will be mandatory ugly stickers with warning to be placed on transom of all new boats I'm sure. Then they'll just all be peeled off by all hot boaters.
I feel terrible for the families that loss someone. But sometimes these lawsuits get ridiculous. If you know you are in an environment that exposes you to this danger, how about just be aware and careful?? Tragedy yes. But that's why they are called accidents. Don't serve these people coffee, they might spill it and sue. Look out Havasu, here come the regulations.

burbanite
10-03-2003, 07:25 AM
We (http://forums.***boat.net/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=006661) knew (http://forums.***boat.net/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=004051) it (http://forums.***boat.net/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=003895) was (http://forums.***boat.net/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=003924) coming (http://forums.***boat.net/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=12;t=001783) ... (http://forums.***boat.net/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=12;t=002292#000009) :rolleyes: frown

drbones
10-03-2003, 07:26 AM
I dont know about anyone else and I might get flamed...BUT who in their right mind would hang on to the back of a boat with the prop just inches away???
Sounds really scary to me...so I suppose when someone gets ate up by the prop they will sue the boat company for putting the prop on the outside of the boat...or when ppl run their cars in a garage with the door closed...can they sue the garage door maker?
How many stupid ppl does it take to make the world go around..LOL...

Mandelon
10-03-2003, 07:26 AM
Effing lawyers at it again.
“We cannot believe the manufacturers continue to fight against doing something as simple as putting a warning on the backs of their boats,” said attorney Richard McCune. “Both the Becketts and the Farrs have been boating for thousands of hours, and they had no idea of the danger behind their boat. That’s just not acceptable.”
Then I guess they are stupid. :mad:
They better put one on cars, motorcycles, and lawnmowers too, then. There is no sticker on the back of a car, and I bet waaaaaay more people have died from automobile produced c.o. than in boats.
In the time it has taken to read this thread, several dozen people have died various accidental causes all over the country. It happens. :(
Rest assured that more rules are coming soon to a favorite waterway near you. Here is the ***boat of the future, buoys and gulls. An electic boat. No pollutants, no noise, and not much fun!
http://www.duffyboats.com/products/images/h_d18_classic.jpg

mike37
10-03-2003, 09:09 AM
this is a link to there web page we all should file a lawsuit aginst them for messing up ore boating rights web page (http://www.wmj-law.com/contact.html)

Havasu_Dreamin
10-03-2003, 09:14 AM
Someone please explain to me how the bot mfg's otr the city of LHC and Mohave County are rsponsible for any of these deaths!?!?!?!? Oh yeah, it's the deep-pockets syndrome! Look, everyone that goes to the channel knows it gets really bad in terms of exhaust on the busy weekends. And who in their right GD mind would "teak surf" behind a boat only inches away from the prop! And hello, tht's where the exhaust is!!!!! GD, I'm so sick of this sh!t!!!! Take some GD responsibility for your own actions and use some GD common sense! This is a direct result of our litigiuos society! GD lawyers! Actually, it's the lawyers and the dipsh!ts that hire them!
C-Ya, you know that lawyers remark is not directed at your wife or those attorneys like her that actually do care about what they do as opposed to just going for the entity with the deepest pockets!
And incase you couldn't tell, yes, I'm in a bad mood and totally pissed at all sort of things right now one of which right now is all of GD politicians and the government in general! All a bunch of greedy SOBS!

Havasu_Dreamin
10-03-2003, 09:19 AM
mike37:
this is a link to there web page we all should file a lawsuit aginst them for messing up ore boating rights web page (http://www.wmj-law.com/contact.html) Well, I just e-mailed them this:
You ambulance chasing losers! How can you in good concscience file these lawsuits!?!?! While I feel for the families that have lost loved ones how about using some common sense and not teak surf behind a boat only inches from the prop and from the exhaust! That's common sense! Just another frivolous lawsuit filed on behalf of people that can't stand up and take some responsibility for their own actions!
A Concerned Boater

HavasuDreamin'
10-03-2003, 09:20 AM
Win or lose........the consumer gets screwed. How much was your boat insurance again???
"Yes.......and what were the BAC levels of the two deceased?" That is what I thought, case dismissed!
[ October 03, 2003, 10:23 AM: Message edited by: HavasuDreamin' ]

Her454
10-03-2003, 09:22 AM
I agree the lawsuits are getting ridiculous, but
the Carbon Monoxide issue does have some validity when it concerns "houseboats". Several children AND adults have died as a result of swimming under the rear platforms, or being on or around the general vicinity of the rear of the boat when the generators are running (something even I did as a kid). Its very dangerous and something victims families have tried to get the "houseboat" manufacturers to acknowledge since the mid 90's.
[ October 03, 2003, 10:22 AM: Message edited by: Her454 ]

Havasu_Dreamin
10-03-2003, 09:27 AM
Her454:
I agree the lawsuits are getting ridiculous, but
the Carbon Monoxide issue does have some validity when it concerns "houseboats". Several children AND adults have died as a result of swimming under the rear platforms, or being on or around the general vicinity of the rear of the boat when the generators are running (something even I did as a kid). Its very dangerous and something victims families have tried to get the "houseboat" manufacturers to acknowledge since the mid 90's. I agree with you 100%! We Systems Analysts' tend to stick together. wink
Edit: It's the teak surfing lawsuits and a lawsuit against LHC and Mohave County that annoy me!
[ October 03, 2003, 10:28 AM: Message edited by: Havasu_Dreamin ]

mike37
10-03-2003, 09:29 AM
Havasu_Dreamin:
mike37:
this is a link to there web page we all should file a lawsuit aginst them for messing up ore boating rights web page (http://www.wmj-law.com/contact.html) Well, I just e-mailed them this:
You ambulance chasing losers! How can you in good concscience file these lawsuits!?!?! While I feel for the families that have lost loved ones how about using some common sense and not teak surf behind a boat only inches from the prop and from the exhaust! That's common sense! Just another frivolous lawsuit filed on behalf of people that can't stand up and take some responsibility for their own actions!
A Concerned Boater I just sent that to them to they are in it to line there pockets not to help

Seadog
10-03-2003, 10:22 AM
Ask any lawyer, being stupid is profitable. Either for you or your heirs. It is just like the kid who got killed when his Mustang crashed. They sued Ford and the tire manufacturer claiming the tires failed. The jury ignored the fact that the idiot kid was drunk, had no seat belt on and was doing 150 mph! I would like to see the law state that a person cannot sue for damages that occur while committing a felony or when a person is under the influence.

Dave C
10-03-2003, 10:37 AM
Thats how it works with damn laywers. :mad:
If the government performs a study that identifies a danger or problem then they just handed over the rope that they will be hung by....
E.G. LHC identifies hazardous CO levels on the lake, now they will be sued by laywers using their own study.
It works the same way with "discrimination" lawsuits.
I wish I became a laywer, I would be richer than I am now......

Seadog
10-03-2003, 01:46 PM
Nah, its like those 10,000 minks that were released by ELF. They attacked everything in the area, including each other and were still starving. Lawyers are the same way.

Boatcop
10-03-2003, 07:38 PM
People will sue over anything. Where the hell is taking responsibility for your own actions? I remember the CO/drowning deaths in the Channel. C'mon people. They were drunk! eek!
A girl is suing MasterCraft (or one of the ski boat companies) from an accident down here 2 years ago.
They hit the rocks jutting out across from Castle Rock Shores in the middle of the night. She was thrown out of the bow, and then run over by the boat, getting some nasty prop cuts.
She lived, but is now suing the boat manufacturer because they should have had bow rails.
Aint that a crock! :mad: She should be suing the idiot that drove the boat into the rocks.
But, hell. She can't make any money that way. Go for the manufacturers with the deep pockets. :rolleyes:

257
10-03-2003, 08:15 PM
boatcop you have to be shitty me those people
were drunk, how could you be drunk when you
start drinking at 900am and never eat,just drink yourself into no common sense, next the
resturants in the channel will be getting sued
for not feeding the amateur drunks, and the lawyers that chase that stuff can kiss my ass
i hate the lawyers and politicans they need to
get a real job
god i feel better ready for a great weekend

novaguy
10-04-2003, 12:34 AM
I would have charged the parents with child endangerment at the very least. I could understand maybe the kids not knowing the dangers of "teak surfing", but a parent/adult should defineatly know the dangers and be held responsible. Because of their lack of common sense and irresponsiblity, they have sadly lost a child.

Rexone
10-04-2003, 01:11 AM
drbones:
Sounds really scary to me...so I suppose when someone gets ate up by the prop they will sue the boat company for putting the prop on the outside of the boatActually this has already happened and prop guards were under discussion. Not sure where that one is now in the process.
It's frivilous lawsuits like these that clog up the legal system, drive up insurance costs of all types to the moon actually driving businesses out of business for no reason, and making the lawyers nothing but money... big money. This is one area I think our government is really weak suck in both state and federal. This kind of crap should not even be allowed to be filed for suit.

DansBlown73Nordic
10-04-2003, 03:40 AM
Mike, I couldn't agree with you more. These lawsuits over Bull Shit is wrong. The rotten lawyers must go home nights and laugh as they count their money.
Thinking we screwed another poor Sap.
Another thing that drives me crazy is how insurace companys will just pay a claim.This happens alot with the trucking industry. A car will run into a truck. The guy will claim oh he backed into me. The insurace company will just pay them.
Then when its time to renew the policy they say you had this loss and that loss...... burningm
Sorry didn't mean to ramble..... frown

Rexone
10-04-2003, 03:56 AM
Shit I just choked on a peanut. I think I'll sue Planters for not warning me they are too big to swallow whole. No warning on the package stating you have to chew these little bastards up... not my fault. I'll sue the farmer that grew the peanuts too, and the guy that sold him his tractor and the guy that sells him water to grow the trees, and the guy that painted his barn just for the hell of it cause that's where he parks the tractor. They're all negligent as hell cause I can't chew up a friggin peanut.
The litigeous society is something I just can't understand. Why people cannot take responsibility when they f-up. Always blamin someone else. F-n drives me nuts this crap. The lawyers that take these cases should just be disbared and the judges that allow them in their courts too. This is a great country but this is one area that needs some serious revampin if it's gonna remain great IMO. :mad:

hd&boatrider
10-05-2003, 06:22 PM
Manufacturers say there is no technology to reduce CO boat emissions
By Brian Wedemeyer
A spokeswoman for the National Marine Manufacturers Association says there is currently no technology available to reduce carbon monoxide emissions from boats.
“At this juncture, there is simply no engineering fix that is available,” said Monita Fontaine, vice president of government relations. “Nothing to date has proven to be effective in a marine environment.
There have been 401 recognized carbon monoxide poisonings nationwide involving boats, including 99 fatalities, according to an active study. Carbon monoxide has been linked to at least three drownings at or near the Bridgewater Channel since 2001.
Welebir and McCune, a Redlands, Calif., law firm, filed a class action lawsuit against several ski boat manufacturers, alleging that they have not done enough to reduce emissions or warn boaters about the danger. The same law firm now represents the families of two men who drowned in the channel this past summer.
Although she declined to discuss any pending litigation, Fontaine said the association has taken the problem seriously.
“We’ve had educational campaigns on this issue for many years,” she said. “There are warnings in every manual with regard to carbon monoxide poisoning and warning labels in boats.”
Fontaine added that the association has been working closely with the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health and the U.S. Coast Guard to address the problem.
“We had a series of conferences on this issue,” Fontaine said. “Everybody has their sleeves rolled up and are working in tandem.”
Fontaine insists the problem is not the result of any boat defects.
“They are designed to the best possible standards that are available today,” she said. “When used properly, they do what they are supposed to do.”
The association has enlisted the help of Southwest Research Institute of San Antonio, one of the nationÂ’s top research and development organizations, to find ways to reduce boat emissions. Institute representatives could not be reached Friday for comment.
Meanwhile, Mohave County Supervisor Buster Johnson has placed an item on the agenda for MondayÂ’s board meeting in Kingman to discuss a medical examinerÂ’s investigation into the death of Timothy Eugene Heck, who drowned in the channel on Sept. 1. The board meeting begins at 9:30 a.m. at 809 E. Beale St.
Dr. Donald Nelson, under contract with the county to perform autopsies, told TodayÂ’s News-Herald last week that HeckÂ’s blood sample was destroyed at a Las Vegas laboratory. The blood sample could have been used to determine if carbon monoxide was a factor.
In July, Johnson opposed the boardÂ’s decision to renew the contract for Northwest Arizona Pathology Associates, which is under NelsonÂ’s direction.
“This first time I learned about this was in the newspaper,” Johnson said. “I just want find out how this could possibly happen and if there are more instances of this happening.
“There has to be some sort of documentation to explain what happened.”
Nelson said he did not believe carbon monoxide played a role in HeckÂ’s death because of his blood and skin color. Some officials claim those are not factors in confirming the majority of carbon monoxide poisonings.
You may contact the report at bwedemeyer@havasunews.com.

Racing Ray
10-05-2003, 07:57 PM
Anybody stupied enough to do this is wasting air to begin with. Great attempt to justify another BS lawsuit!

Dr. Eagle
10-06-2003, 07:17 AM
hd&boatrider:
Manufacturers say there is no technology to reduce CO boat emissions
By Brian Wedemeyer
A spokeswoman for the National Marine Manufacturers Association says there is currently no technology available to reduce carbon monoxide emissions from boats.
“At this juncture, there is simply no engineering fix that is available,” said Monita Fontaine, vice president of government relations. “Nothing to date has proven to be effective in a marine environment.
There have been 401 recognized carbon monoxide poisonings nationwide involving boats, including 99 fatalities, according to an active study. Carbon monoxide has been linked to at least three drownings at or near the Bridgewater Channel since 2001.
Welebir and McCune, a Redlands, Calif., law firm, filed a class action lawsuit against several ski boat manufacturers, alleging that they have not done enough to reduce emissions or warn boaters about the danger. The same law firm now represents the families of two men who drowned in the channel this past summer.
Although she declined to discuss any pending litigation, Fontaine said the association has taken the problem seriously.
“We’ve had educational campaigns on this issue for many years,” she said. “There are warnings in every manual with regard to carbon monoxide poisoning and warning labels in boats.”
Fontaine added that the association has been working closely with the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health and the U.S. Coast Guard to address the problem.
“We had a series of conferences on this issue,” Fontaine said. “Everybody has their sleeves rolled up and are working in tandem.”
Fontaine insists the problem is not the result of any boat defects.
“They are designed to the best possible standards that are available today,” she said. “When used properly, they do what they are supposed to do.”
The association has enlisted the help of Southwest Research Institute of San Antonio, one of the nationÂ’s top research and development organizations, to find ways to reduce boat emissions. Institute representatives could not be reached Friday for comment.
Meanwhile, Mohave County Supervisor Buster Johnson has placed an item on the agenda for MondayÂ’s board meeting in Kingman to discuss a medical examinerÂ’s investigation into the death of Timothy Eugene Heck, who drowned in the channel on Sept. 1. The board meeting begins at 9:30 a.m. at 809 E. Beale St.
Dr. Donald Nelson, under contract with the county to perform autopsies, told TodayÂ’s News-Herald last week that HeckÂ’s blood sample was destroyed at a Las Vegas laboratory. The blood sample could have been used to determine if carbon monoxide was a factor.
In July, Johnson opposed the boardÂ’s decision to renew the contract for Northwest Arizona Pathology Associates, which is under NelsonÂ’s direction.
“This first time I learned about this was in the newspaper,” Johnson said. “I just want find out how this could possibly happen and if there are more instances of this happening.
“There has to be some sort of documentation to explain what happened.”
Nelson said he did not believe carbon monoxide played a role in HeckÂ’s death because of his blood and skin color. Some officials claim those are not factors in confirming the majority of carbon monoxide poisonings.
You may contact the report at bwedemeyer@havasunews.com. Actually there is a pretty good fix for CO emissions and those damn manufacturers don't tell anyone. Use some common sense and STAY IN THE DAMN BOAT WHEN THE FRIGGIN ENGINE IS ON!
BTW The coast guard has had warnings about Teak Surfing on their web page for about 5 years now...
[ October 06, 2003, 09:11 AM: Message edited by: Dr. Eagle ]

Her454
10-06-2003, 08:07 AM
Off the subject....kinda, but it brings to mind the stupid B*tch that sued McDonalds because she
burned herself on the coffee she was served.....got lotsa money and pretty little lables on the cups now telling us the "coffee is hot"......... eek! eek! eek!

Essex502
10-06-2003, 08:27 AM
Where were the parents when their children were "teak surfing"? "Oh, no, it couldn't be my fault for allowing my children to be so stupid!"
Hang all the lawyers. Hell, my wife works for a law firm but I could do without her income if my insurance premiums would go down or products were cheaper due to the lack of bull$hit product liability cases like this. THe absurdity of suing the City and County...what next ... sue the McCulloch family because their patriarch was involved in digging the channel?
This should be thrown out of court and the lawyers sanctioned for presenting such a farce to the courts.

Dr. Eagle
10-06-2003, 08:32 AM
I feel sorry for all of those parents, spouses, other relatives and friends lost while Teak Surfing. That being said, it is about time people take responsibility for their own poor judgment.
I made a mistake when boating on my Eliminator boat about three years ago and nearly lost my leg. Not thinking where I was or where the drives were I stepped off the swim step, striking the prop on the way in the water. It cut my patellar tendon and about 1/3 the way through my knee. It was a heinous and damn painful injury.
Did I sue Eliminator, Mercury Marine, the Dealer, the Coast Guard, The Sheriffs department, Noah for inventing the ark? Hell no!!! I realized it was my bad judgment and lack of paying attention (euphemism for stupidity) that caused the accident. It took me two years to recover from it (mainly due to a Staph infection from a second surgery to remove hardware...another story), but I am back.
I have a problem with attorneys that pursue these kind of cases, and people that hire them.