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View Full Version : So, you want more American jobs, or what?



HOSS
09-11-2003, 06:29 PM
OK! I got this whole deal figurred out. We can`t illegally tax imports right? We can pay for scanners, manpower, and funds overseas for the check points of incomming goods to the US right?
Why don`t we get all our Congressmen/women a call to tell them about the "New Deal Revisited".
What I`m proposing is an all win solution to America`s problems. We are only going to scan imported goods and materials at our ports. And I do me ports we have before hitting the US. Sorta like weigh stations for truckers. Every container and box thoroughly inspected. "But HOSS, this will take too ****in` long". No shit dickhead. Won`t be too much shit getting in right. Well I guess our fellow countrymen/women will have to go back to work and feed their families, regain their dignity, and most of all give the finger towards their new widescreen tv when CNN is on while chewin` on a bigass drum stick and drinkin` a cold beer OR they could pay for everything to be inspected correctly. In the latter case major fines would be leveed OR inelligibilty to trade with the US.
Overseas countries will cry fowl. Just like we do with overseas labor. They will either step up to the plate or ****in` stand in a food line. But the beauty is that it ain`t my problem.
Write your congressmen tonight online!
Tell `em HOSS sent ya! :mad:

Tom Brown
09-11-2003, 08:09 PM
I need to drink more.

HOSS
09-12-2003, 04:08 AM
Not me. I`m sick of this depressing ****in` economy.

Blown 472
09-12-2003, 04:40 AM
No shit, thanks for the idea Hoss.

Boozer
09-12-2003, 05:05 AM
How about a different idea. Corporate America stops paying for these ****ing rag head ****s from India to get trained in things like MCSE, Cisco, Oracle, and other things and them bringing them over here on work Visa's to take over an engineering position that was paying some hard working American 6 figures and now pay them $13 an hour to do the job.
I see the shit everyday. My company probably has 1000's of these people doing this exact thing. It is total bullshit. It also sucks ass come lunch time when I'm in the elevator with all these ****s that smell terrible because they just ate some disgusting Indian cuisine.
To top it all off they don't even spend the money they make here. They will live with like 10 other people in a 2 bedroom apartment so that they can send all of their money home to India. How is this helping the economy at all? You give these ****ers American money that you are taking off the dinner table from an AMERICAN CITIZEN and they aren't even going to show the slightest gratitude by spending it here.
Let them have their Quick E Marts and Liquor stores but quit giving them good paying American jobs just to save a couple bucks.

drbones
09-12-2003, 05:46 AM
Boozer..I can only say one thing...!!
Bravo.....

HammerDown
09-12-2003, 06:23 AM
Boycot the F**KS...A local Wawa store was just changed into some Dot Head owned Food mart...and there was the F**k with he's head wraped in a Towel, and the smelly bastard was waiting for me to enter his store...I shook my head, gave the thumbs down and drove away.
I wont go in there Gas stations either.

HOSS
09-12-2003, 06:27 AM
Yeah Boozer I hear ya. But what I`m saying would work. Probably the only shot the US CITIZENS have of taking our lives back into our own hands.
Just send an email stating you don`t support any candidate who is for US tax dollars monitoring goods in other countries coming to the US for them to make a profit. If they can`t do it it don`t get in. PERIOD!
This is realistic people. We can`t monitor everyone and everything.If they won`t police themselves to make a profit then why should we do it for them.
Its like the bum on the corner. He will sit there and collect cash but won`t go work for it. And why should he. You keep giving it to him right where he sits!

Boozer
09-12-2003, 06:29 AM
I'm glad to see that I'm not the only person who despises those F****$
I hate doing business with them period. Especially when they start talking their high pitch squeely voices. Sounds like someone is doing a burn out right in your ear!

HammerDown
09-12-2003, 06:36 AM
Boozer:
I'm glad to see that I'm not the only person who despises those F****$
I hate doing business with them period. Especially when they start talking their high pitch squeely voices. Sounds like someone is doing a burn out right in your ear! Burn out in Ear=good. Towel Head RapCrap=Bad.

HOSS
09-12-2003, 10:39 AM
I can assure you RD that right here in Silicone Valley there are computer components that outclass anywhere else in the world. Honda and Toyota do not deal witht the same labor laws we do. And yes some of their shit is made here. But all in all they don`t. And I can promise you that the sheetmetal is not the same gauge as ours. But I do agree that they build a better car bang for buck.
And yes let that shit sit somewhere on the docks! Sooner or later they will play by our rules or they will not import anything. How much you wanna bet they auntee up.
We can`t just keep pumping out cash and little returning. I have now figurred out how the US plans on making a global economy. Since none of the other countries will meet us in labor costs, the US is just gonna bleed the working class down to them.
HINT: If your family ain`t wealthy, then too ****in` bad for you!

Her454
09-12-2003, 11:18 AM
HOSS:
I can assure you RD that right here in Silicone Valley there are computer components that outclass anywhere else in the world. Hoss, its pretty frustrating when you work for one the Silicon Valleys Pioneer Companies and they are laying off by the thousands (A company that NEVER had layoffs prior to 2000) and sending all our work to India! burningm

BUSTI
09-12-2003, 11:19 AM
RiverDave is correct. Any attempt by government to regulate import/export, design, price of a product or service always results in higher prices for the consumer. And always means the product and or service is inferior. Its called econ 101. The government by way of control only makes business worse. The government does not create anything in business but less business that is always more expensive or inferior...PERIOD!
Boozer when your company gets Indians, with out coerision, to do the same job for less money that Americans are willing to do the job for... a basic corner stone of Capitalism has just been achieved! That is that through the free market system of free bartering the job value has now been redefined to $13.00 per hour. That is a great thing for your company, the employees and a great thing for the country!. First of all the managers of your company have an ethical and paramount obligation to make money and maximize profits(legally obviously) for their shareholders. Not to keep the employees employed.
When your company increases its profits, by making lets say the Indian $13.00 decision, your company has more money for land, equipment, other employee benifits, higher managers wages, and expansion of the business. Not to mention greater dividends for the shareholders (who lets not forget are the company not the employees).
Now lets examine the effect of greater dividends to the shareholders.Wwhat that means is that the shareholders now have more money. When they earn more money on their investment there are only three things they can do with the money ...ALL GREAT FOR AMERICA!. First they can spend it, secondly they can save it, or better yet they can REINVEST IT!!!! When they spend it that creates more jobs for everybody. When they save it or buy bonds with it that results in lower interest rates for homes and cars and other consumer purchases. And finally if they reinvest it they provide funds for new and or struggling companies that need the venture capital! ALL GREAT FOR AMERICA AND THEMSELVES. ITS CALLED THE VIRTUES OF SELFISHNESS AT WORK AT ITS FINEST!!!!!!!!! :D
As far as the Indians go...immigrants are the back bone of American capitalism. They have been since our country began. Have we forgotten that this country was created exclusively by immigrants.
Run away from any company who believes that its primary reason for existence is to keep it's employees employed. Instead of making money for it's sahreholders. Because it will most assuredly go out of business!!!

Blown 472
09-12-2003, 11:27 AM
Reinvest it in what?? more overseas manufacturing?? how does that help us??
RD better quality?? that is funny, I work in a manufacturing plant that they are looking at chinese junk, yeah it is not as good as what we make but it is cheap to make cuz they dont pay their people shit and they live on the grounds of the plant and work 12 hour shifts 7 days a week.
When there are no good paying jobs to buy their stuff then maybe ceo's will take a look a how they are selling us out.

HOSS
09-12-2003, 11:28 AM
Busti, hate to bust your bubble, but you need to read this post from the beginning. I am not disputing labor rates. But I am disputing that we need to pay for inspection leaving (only example) India`s ports. They should be doing this. If they can`t TO OUR STANDARDS, then we don`t accept it. GET IT? I don`t wanna pay anymore shit. Unless it adversely affects the safety of my country. We can safely control shit coming here. Why can`t they. It wouldn`t cost as much for us if they did. We would also be more effective at catching things. Again, why do I Joe Taxpayer have to pay for these asssholes xray equip, labor, training, etc for them to not even do the job thats payed and still worry about shit coming here to smoke me!
What the **** do the Indians and Business economics have to do with that? I`m talkin` about jobs that would be created here. Factories that were closed would reopen. Yeah it would take time. But time we are gettin` short of at our expense.

BUSTI
09-12-2003, 12:17 PM
Hoss I did read your oeiginal post and i didn't make myself clear. I objected to Boozer complaining about his company employing Indians being hired to do same work for less money. I agree with you that our government in its attempt to control or inspect trade in foriegn ports can only be a waste of time and money. i firmly believe that inspections should be the primary responsibility of the shipper/reciever company that handles the goods. My basic complaint is with Boozers assertion that American business managers are selling us out.
How is any company making decisions to be more profitable selling us out. They do not have an obligation to keep you employed!. I am 53 and i have heard this crap since I was a young boy. my father was a furniture mfg. And the jobs that go over seas are the jobs America doesn't want. We want the jobs on the cutting edge of technology not the iron smelting jobs that any country can do. Let the lower tech jobs go over seas america doesn't need them nor want them.
Would you rather have the steel business back in this country? Or have Microsoft and all its employees here in America. Its the choice we have made and that is the jobs that can easily be provided by other countries at a cheaper price should be sent over seas and the more high tech jobs we want here in America. If the average Anerican soesn't like it. Tough shit! They are to stupid to see the future and left up to them we would still be making buggy whips because it keeps people employed. and you comment Boozer wait till the CEO's of this country have no body to buy their products ...is a pile of crap sour grapes based in a lack of real knowledge of how our economy works.
My message to anybody that thinks their job has been unfairly sent over seas and you are feeling like you have been screwed. tough shit get off your ass go back to school and retrain yourself to keep up with the times or find a different field to work in. Or better yet start a business and meet a payroll every week and pay yourself out of your prifits. And then come tell me if you believe you are business to keep youe employees employed or to make money. Because with out profits nobody is employed for long. Except government wokers that live off the taxes of those that are smart enough and work hard enough to make a profit.
Hoss overall my point related to your post is what ever results in lower prices of products while all the while preserving the safety we should do. Usually the expenditures of tax dollars over seas is a bad idea. Related to Boozer I don't see how companies making themslves more profitable is selling out our country.

Blown 472
09-12-2003, 12:23 PM
huummmmm you seem to think everyone is going to get a high tech job?? and the stupid shit jobs should be sent overseas??? interesting, so what do we do with all the folks that used to work in manufacturing and dont have the smarts for a high tech job, **** em to stupid anyway??
You wouldn't happen to be a lobbiest would you?
[ September 12, 2003, 01:26 PM: Message edited by: Blown 472 ]

Boozer
09-12-2003, 12:26 PM
BUSTI:
Hoss I did read your oeiginal post and i didn't make myself clear. I objected to Boozer complaining about his company employing Indians being hired to do same work for less money. I agree with you that our government in its attempt to control or inspect trade in foriegn ports can only be a waste of time and money. i firmly believe that inspections should be the primary responsibility of the shipper/reciever company that handles the goods. My basic complaint is with Boozers assertion that American business managers are selling us out.
How is any company making decisions to be more profitable selling us out. They do not have an obligation to keep you employed!. I am 53 and i have heard this crap since I was a young boy. my father was a furniture mfg. And the jobs that go over seas are the jobs America doesn't want. We want the jobs on the cutting edge of technology not the iron smelting jobs that any country can do. Let the lower tech jobs go over seas america doesn't need them nor want them.
Would you rather have the steel business back in this country? Or have Microsoft and all its employees here in America. Its the choice we have made and that is the jobs that can easily be provided by other countries at a cheaper price should be sent over seas and the more high tech jobs we want here in America. If the average Anerican soesn't like it. Tough shit! They are to stupid to see the future and left up to them we would still be making buggy whips because it keeps people employed. and you comment Boozer wait till the CEO's of this country have no body to buy their products ...is a pile of crap sour grapes based in a lack of real knowledge of how our economy works.
My message to anybody that thinks their job has been unfairly sent over seas and you are feeling like you have been screwed. tough shit get off your ass go back to school and retrain yourself to keep up with the times or find a different field to work in. Or better yet start a business and meet a payroll every week and pay yourself out of your prifits. And then come tell me if you believe you are business to keep youe employees employed or to make money. Because with out profits nobody is employed for long. Except government wokers that live off the taxes of those that are smart enough and work hard enough to make a profit.
Hoss overall my point related to your post is what ever results in lower prices of products while all the while preserving the safety we should do. Usually the expenditures of tax dollars over seas is a bad idea. Related to Boozer I don't see how companies making themslves more profitable is selling out our country. I would have no problem with it if more profitable meant more money for management and other employees. But that's not the case.
I have seen this company lay off over 2,000 people in the time I have been with them. As far as my job security goes, I'll have a job tomorrow and the next day and the day after that because a stupid f*ck from India can't do what I do.
However, I have seen many friends get replaced by Indians and are now out of work. From makin 75K+ a year and not a worry in the world to now losing their homes. It sucks to see. Fortunately enough for myself I have taken on a trade that will never be obsoltete and there's always going to be a job out there for me if I really need one.

BUSTI
09-12-2003, 12:42 PM
Then Boozer you have made my point! You are one of the Americans that understand that keep up or get passed by. And Blown I think more of the average American than you do. I am convinced that the vast majority of americans can do almost anything they put their minds to. Given the right choices these Americans can and will make the right choices for them and their families. Hell Americans are the most resilient people on the face of the planet! They wil get retrained or pick a new field to work in. Thats why overall unemployment has been virtually the same over the last 30 years given adjustments for business cucles. Americans have adapted. Boozer right in your home town in Denver the Tech Center has experienced massive layoffs in the .Com industry.
On Labor Day I was there arranging and participating in a lease of over 75,000 square feet of office space that MCI has sitting empty. The new company a new national headquarters for a a commercial real estate lending company. Do you know why my partners and I have picked denvers tech center...because we are aware that there is a huge employment pool of high tech well educated unemployed homeowners in Denver. Our first employment fair attracted 1,000 job applicants all willing to start at the bottom and work their way up. That means more profits for us! Change is good have faith!

Her454
09-12-2003, 01:03 PM
BUSTI:
And the jobs that go over seas are the jobs America doesn't want. We want the jobs on the cutting edge of technology not the iron smelting jobs that any country can do. Let the lower tech jobs go over seas america doesn't need them nor want them.
My message to anybody that thinks their job has been unfairly sent over seas and you are feeling like you have been screwed. tough shit get off your ass go back to school and retrain yourself to keep up with the times or find a different field to work in. Or better yet start a business and meet a payroll every week and pay yourself out of your prifits. First of all, thats a pretty righteous attitude, and to each his own but let me say that I am one that has seen co workers get "screwed" all around me. Getting off your ass and re-training is not as easy as it sounds, especially when a layoff comes unexpectedly after being reassured that your job is safe. Some of these people have been at their jobs for over 20 years to come in with as little as a weeks notice of a layoff. Sure, you can re-train and find a new career, but in the interim, myself being a single parent of a teenager would find that extremely difficult to do and still keep my home, boat, etc. Not all of us are in the position to own our own business and profit from that either. BTW, I hope you run your business better than you spell.

BUSTI
09-12-2003, 02:10 PM
454 quit sounding like a victim! And give yourself more credit than you do. You could and would adapt or you would get passed by. And of course your slam about my typing is a personal slam...because you really can't offer any real ideas of your own other than " I couldn't do it and I see my friends get screwed all the time". React and offer counter points to my ideas. Not petty comments about my typimg and spelling skills.
For your information a cerebal hemmorage left me without fine detail movemnet in my left hand so I hunt and peck with my right hand only. And as result of these hemorages I need a CCTV to read what I type. I can't see detail of printed material very well with in 24 inches of my face. My special monitor is 25 inch CCTV that iluminates and enlarges computer images up to 14 times their original size.
I am legally blind as a reult of macular degeneration and with implants in my etes I just now learned to drive because I have monovision only for things far away. So I can read street signs fine but cant read the gauges in my car. I carry a legally blind card. I know something about retraining because as a result of this vision disability 15 years ago I had to sell the family furniture mfg. business. At the Braile Institue I learned to type with one hand even with limited vision. Today I am a CA Real Estate Broker and through the gift of modern medicine and 6 eye operations I function quite well. My typing sucks I know.
I did all this with two young boys as a single parent. My wife left me after my strokes, I was 38 when this happened. I owned a home so I didn't qualify for government aide. I wouldn't have accepted it anyway. So don't tell me people can't retrain themselves...I did and I assure you most people can if they need to. I am no smarter than most of you...but like many of you I never quit and I am convinced my life will be as good as I make it!

Her454
09-12-2003, 02:24 PM
BUSTI:
454 quit sounding like a victim! And give yourself more credit than you do. You could and would adapt or you would get passed by. And of course your slam about my typing is a personal slam...because you really can't offer any real ideas of your own other than " I couldn't do it and I see my friends get screwed all the time". React and offer counter points to my ideas. Not petty comments about my typimg and spelling skills.
For your information a cerebal hemmorage left me without fine detail movemnet in my left hand so I hunt and peck with my right hand only. And as result of these hemorages I need a CCTV to read what I type. I can't see detail of printed material very well with in 24 inches of my face. My special monitor is 25 inch CCTV that iluminates and enlarges computer images up to 14 times their original size.
I am legally blind as a reult of macular degeneration and with implants in my etes I just now learned to drive because I have monovision only for things far away. So I can read street signs fine but cant read the gauges in my car. I carry a legally blind card. I know something about retraining because as a result of this vision disability 15 years ago I had to sell the family furniture mfg. business. At the Braile Institue I learned to type with one hand even with limited vision. Today I am a CA Real Estate Broker and through the gift of modern medicine and 6 eye operations I function quite well. My typing sucks I know.
I did all this with two young boys as a single parent. My wife left me after my strokes, I was 38 when this happened. I owned a home so I didn't qualify for government aide. I wouldn't have accepted it anyway. So don't tell me people can't retrain themselves...I did and I assure you most people can if they need to. I am no smarter than most of you...but like many of you I never quit and I am convinced my life will be as good as I make it! LMFAO!!!!!! Rest assured Busti, Im not whining, Im a survivor also, although I have not had near the trauma you have endured.....my sympathies.... wink Im just tired of seeing good people lose their jobs who have dedicated alot to the company. Life does go on........ :)

TahitiSteve
09-13-2003, 01:37 AM
Excellent posts Busti,
I tend to favor free trade, and my belief in it rests on the same principles you have stated. Though you seem to have a more thorough understanding of it than I do.
Free trade is obviously overall the best policy, for the freedom and prosperity of the world (the whole). I still question though whether it is necessarily the best, at any given time, for the parts (in particular the US).
We have high standard of living and high expectations for compensation relative to most of the world. Companies can find cheaper employees outside the US, and yes that will lead to lower prices for the goods, but also makes the US unattractive for running a business.
Wealth=production, and free trade produces the most wealth for the whole. I question whether cheap foreign labor pulls so much employment from the US (until capitalism raises wages in the poor countries) that it tries to pull us down to their level. A company with high costs relative to its competition, goes out of business.
In the long run free trade is the best policy for all, but can it impoverish us (through unemployment) in the short run?
Yes, the long run is what's important, but for instance building up an immunity to a poison, taking it all at once would kill you. Is foreign competition something that we need to build our immunity to, or (aside from safety/security concerns) is complete free trade always the best for the whole and the parts?
[ September 13, 2003, 02:46 AM: Message edited by: TahitiSteve ]

HOSS
09-13-2003, 05:26 AM
Boy aren`t you guys way off course. Reading too damn much into topic of thread. No one is questioning free trade. Some of you ****s sound more interested in the world as a whole instead of your fellow Americans.
Hell, I ain`t ever bit my tongue yet so I`m not gonna start now. Busti, I`m sorry for your mishaps in life but I just gotta ask, "Did you walk 10 miles in the snow without any shoes just to get your kids to school?". No one here has ever questioned your struggles or abilities in life. But to take out your angers on the rest of us is for the shortsights you`ve incounterred is ****in` pathetic. Even if what handicaps you describe are true (and I am sorry for your sufferring) you must also take into account that MOST people don`t come from a family with some wealth (own a furniture business) to sit back re-group and then attack life again. Instead most people are working class. Like the people that helped make your family rich by working for your family business. Maybe some of them actually believed in your family dream. Maybe they thought they were doing something. Its ****in` pukes like you that have turned the American worker around. You know the I DON`T GIVE A **** ATTITUDE. Unappreciated ****in` rich punk.
Damn Busti, too bad you weren`t in office back during the Great Depression. You had a simple answer for everyone`s question. Just get off your ass and re-train. You had to. Why not everyone else! **** you bro.
I agree with business profits. Let me see you answer this. Business owners must make a profit or there is no reason for business. Agreed. Working class doesn`t make as much as business owners. Agreed. Workers cannot save as much as a business owner. Fact. Worker gets laid off and has little in bank. Fact. Workers bills still keep coming. Fact. Former business owner can sit back regroup and go to school because of profits from business that worker helped build. Fact. Business owners (for the most part) have no loyalty to workers. Fact. Everyone cannot be a business owner. Fact. THE LABOR FORCE IS NEEDED IN AMERICAN (or any) ECONOMY. Fact. Your point again Busti?
So basically my point is this thread isn`t about overcoming obstacles in life, more about unnecessary obstacles that are created against our own people by our own people. And why? Why not look out for OUR future? Jobs that no one wants? **** bro. Better ask all the employees on the floor of Wal Mart. Especially the ones that use to work in plants that shut down. Or the person who worked at Boeing building aircraft sections. Re-train for Wal Mart?
Basically Busti there are many more factors than just get off your ass. The most important of which is a question from the worker. Why in the **** am I retraining? Where is my job now? Why is my government allowing this to happen to me? I pay my taxes and work hard.
Whatch it Busti you selfish ****. Your families money maynot last for generations to come. But hell by that time there will be someone else telling your grandkids to get off there ****in` asses and re-train. Even if they are already in the gutter. And you know why? Because at that time they will be the ones with the money!
Re-read the thread topic. Sorry for the rant Busti but you are just coming off like a one sided little rich boy.
Diversity and choice are great. But at what price to the American people.

VillainDave
09-13-2003, 06:13 AM
Well how about if corporations are taxed heavier for sending their parts out of the country to be manufactured..
I used to work for a company that sent jobs out of the United States just so they didn’t have to pay the higher wages.