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THATJEFFGUY
10-30-2003, 02:38 PM
Hey guys..
Just wanted to show you one of our new designs. We're
in the process of doing a tribal design and flames on a top also. Let me know what you think !
http://members.aol.com/coolcovercanopy/canopy1 http://members.aol.com/coolcovercanopy/canopy2

Gman
10-30-2003, 02:59 PM
friggin bitchen man!!!!!! Now do you have one with shamrocks? :D j/k I had to ask.

MagicMtnDan
10-30-2003, 03:03 PM
What's the dealio with the German Iron Cross? I know it's popular in part because of HD cycles but I fail to see its value - it certainly is anything but a positive symbol as is intrinsically linked to Hitler and Nazi Germany.
In my opinion, you should abandon the cross and stick with the tribal stuff or flames.
The Iron Cross invoked memories of gallant Prussian warriors, the great victories of the Bismark era, and the brave soldiers of World War I. In the opening hours of World War II, Hitler introduced his political imagery to these memories. The Iron Cross then interlaced with the Third Reich, instantly becoming one of the most visually powerful and recognizable military award of all time. The Cross, which retained its original form as designed by Karl Frederich Schinkel, became for the first time a German award (in previous years it been an exclusively Prussian award).

Havasu_Dreamin
10-30-2003, 03:04 PM
Maybe it's just me but I don't see the big deal. But it looks nice, I guess.

MagicMtnDan
10-30-2003, 03:10 PM
Originally posted by Havasu_Dreamin
Maybe it's just me but I don't see the big deal. But it looks nice, I guess.
You're right. Maybe swastikas would be OK too, right?
Look, it's up to each person to decide what is right or wrong. To me, this is very wrong and I'm sure a lot of older, WWII era folks find this stuff to be offensive. Just cuz it's "cool looking" doesn't mean it should be on t-shirts, bikinis, or shade canopies, etc.
But hey, that's just me.
-Magic Mtn (just trying to make a point) Dan

superdave013
10-30-2003, 03:26 PM
Originally posted by MagicMtnDan
What's the dealio with the German Iron Cross? I know it's popular in part because of HD cycles but I fail to see its value - it certainly is anything but a positive symbol as is intrinsically linked to Hitler and Nazi Germany.
In my opinion, you should abandon the cross and stick with the tribal stuff or flames.
Well because that's the in thing right now (I don't get it myself) and he's smart enough to get on the band wagon. He's gonna sell a ton of them I bet.

Havasu_Dreamin
10-30-2003, 03:35 PM
Originally posted by RiverDave
The german Iron cross has been around LONG BEFORE Hitler and the Nazi's.. As the swastika has been around for centuries (reversed though) previous to the nazi's.
RD
I did not know it that these symbols have been around for centuries, but I also have no reason to not believe that statement by RD. However, I do believe that MMD has a point, whether right or wrong, most people may equate the iron cross with the nazi's. SD is right as well, for some reason it is the in thing, I suspect it has something to with WCC and their popularity, and if they want to make a buck selling it, then go for it. Those that find it, dare I say offensive, can just avoid it.

Rocket2003
10-30-2003, 03:38 PM
Wrong-O! It's the symbol for Kwicherbichen!:D
http://www.kwicherbichen.com/images/avatars/KB_av.gif

al cole'holic
10-30-2003, 03:38 PM
Originally posted by MagicMtnDan
In my opinion, you should abandon the cross and stick with the tribal stuff or flames.
..why stop there? Maybe you would like to see the new tribal stuff and flames in rainbow?? :D

mirvin
10-30-2003, 03:39 PM
Iron crosses are used so often that you probably don't realize it. Just being stylized a little rounder and not so "German-y" makes them much easier to look at. The old style Iron Cross (like the ones on Jeff's canapy) are much more - how you say- evil looking.
Look around at things like union logos', action sports logos', they're everywhere. I don't find them offensive because I know that they were around long before the Germans used them.
Isn't the iron cross a variation of the Celtic Cross?? Which are really just crosses?

wineguy069
10-30-2003, 03:44 PM
A suggestion, far more peaceful than the German cross .
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/907canopy2_copy-med.jpg

AZKC
10-30-2003, 04:00 PM
Thats awsome:D
KC

Bense468
10-30-2003, 04:22 PM
Where do I sign up at? How much are they. I could use one for glamis this winter.

jbtrailerjim
10-30-2003, 04:27 PM
Originally posted by wineguy069
A suggestion, far more peaceful than the German cross .
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/907canopy2_copy-med.jpg
No that is sweet! I just might buy one if it has that on it.:D

THATJEFFGUY
10-30-2003, 04:32 PM
Geez...sorry the iron cross pissed so many members off ! I'm not a Nazi or Hitler fan...I simply made this particular canopy design for a well known motorcycle company here in So CA...and they loved it ! You will notice that many different companies are using the iron cross design, simply because it's hot right now !

396_WAYS_TO_SPIT
10-30-2003, 04:37 PM
Originally posted by MagicMtnDan
What's the dealio with the German Iron Cross? I know it's popular in part because of HD cycles but I fail to see its value - it certainly is anything but a positive symbol as is intrinsically linked to Hitler and Nazi Germany.
In my opinion, you should abandon the cross and stick with the tribal stuff or flames.
I agree as well.(Being a black guy) I actually used to fight all the skinheads at school over that cross. I know what it means and I do "sometimes" take offense to it but now I just learned to deal with it because people are making money on it. I do like the flames and tribals idea! the rainbow idea is gay and sucks to me! But who knows you might be able to make a killing off the gay industry. 3/4 of them are rich and they do spend money.
But those are jusssss my lil ole' 2 pennies;)
396

TrojanDan
10-30-2003, 05:13 PM
Originally posted by MagicMtnDan
What's the dealio with the German Iron Cross?
Just read this thread. I too want to know what the deal is on these iron crosses I see everywhere? I know the first thing that comes to my mind when I see one is Nazi Germany, but maybe that's because I enjoyed history in school. That's just my observation which doesn't mean jack sh#t. :cool:
but on a side note, those canopies (fabrication and construction) look pretty sweet............

FingerTight
10-30-2003, 05:26 PM
FYI:
Long before WCC used it:
http://www.independenttrucks.com/
(For all those Thrasher punks in the crowd...)
:D

superdave013
10-30-2003, 05:42 PM
Originally posted by FingerTight
FYI:
Long before WCC used it:
http://www.independenttrucks.com/
(For all those Thrasher punks in the crowd...)
:D
I've ground down so many of those trucks back in the day. Those and a few sets of Full Trackers and some Gullwings!
Wooo Hooo, I'm gonna have to poach the lil skate park in Fullerton tonight! :D If I break my wrist (again) it's your fault. :rolleyes:

MagicMtnDan
10-30-2003, 06:00 PM
Look, I wasn't trying to pick a fight. The guy's got a great looking product and I commend him for making them and marketing them. I'm not trying to make an example out of him because (a) I know most people don't give a $hit what they do or buy these days - if it's cool they don't care even if it offends others, and (b) I realize that lots of companies are using the Iron Cross as part of their logos and marketing schemes.
I was simply trying to make a point and inform those who do care what they buy or what their kids buy or do. Sure the history of that cross goes back before Nazi Germany but no one is ever going to think about that - the reason these crosses are familiar to people is because of the Nazis, their uniforms and their medals. They've been in movies, books and pictures and they've been used by motorcylists (who seem to like the Nazi theme) and others (including Kwitcherbichen).
You're certainly entitled to agree, disagree, or not care about my viewpoint, that's your perogative. But there's no need to start spouting the gay and rainbow crap. Suggesting that someone you don't know is gay demonstrates your own insecurity and raises questions about your own sexual orientation not mine.

HOSS
10-30-2003, 08:09 PM
Its a ****in` pattern. Get on with it.

Rexone
10-30-2003, 08:31 PM
Originally posted by MagicMtnDan
What's the dealio with the German Iron Cross? I know it's popular in part because of HD cycles but I fail to see its value - it certainly is anything but a positive symbol as is intrinsically linked to Hitler and Nazi Germany.
In my opinion, you should abandon the cross and stick with the tribal stuff or flames.
I agree w/ya Dan, I don't dig the iron cross stuff, anywhere. Although it has a long origin, it's most recently associated with Nazi Germany so it ain't gonna appear on any of my shiznit. ever. but maybe that's just me. I'm kind a funny about that kinda stuff. I think maybe the younger gen just doesn't get the full Nazi connection dealio or maybe don't know what WW2 was really all about sometimes cause it looks cool and everyone's got it, its lost its association in their minds ...whatever. to each his own. I know for me though everytime I see that symbol, anywhere, I think of one thing. Hitler and the millions he exterminated, burned and killed. I never buy any type of product that incorporates any of these types of symbols either. But again its probably just me.
I think the guys got a great looking shade product. If I bought one it would just have somethin else on it that's all.

Rocket2003
10-30-2003, 08:49 PM
Originally posted by Rexone
I agree w/ya Dan, I don't dig the iron cross stuff, anywhere. Although it has a long origin, it's most recently associated with Nazi Germany so it ain't gonna appear on any of my shiznit. ever. but maybe that's just me. I'm kind a funny about that kinda stuff. I think maybe the younger gen just doesn't get the full Nazi connection dealio or maybe don't know what WW2 was really all about sometimes cause it looks cool and everyone's got it, its lost its association in their minds ...whatever. to each his own. I know for me though everytime I see that symbol, anywhere, I think of one thing. Hitler and the millions he exterminated, burned and killed. I never buy any type of product that incorporates any of these types of symbols either. But again its probably just me.
I think the guys got a great looking shade product. If I bought one it would just have somethin else on it that's all.
Mike, I never thought about it in those terms before. I can understand where your coming from though, My Dad was in WW2 & Korea.

MRS FLYIN VEE
10-30-2003, 09:01 PM
why does everything that people post have to be an :argue: would the views on this subject be the same if it were tits and ass or a christian cross or the star of david come on it is a symbol that people don't like (including myself) lets get over it and give the guys a break he didn't mean anything by it. I know he didn't mean to offend anyone here. he's just trying to get his product out with something popular that some people like. lets get over it and move on. just my 2 cents

Dr. Eagle
10-30-2003, 09:02 PM
Originally posted by wineguy069
A suggestion, far more peaceful than the German cross .
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/907canopy2_copy-med.jpg
Jbtrailerjim, love to ship you one of these beauties, but they are on BACK order....Arr Arr :D

Dr. Eagle
10-30-2003, 09:08 PM
Originally posted by MRS FLYIN VEE
why does everything that people post have to be an :argue: would the views on this subject be the same if it were tits and ass or a christian cross or the star of david come on it is a symbol that people don't like (including myself) lets get over it and give the guys a break he didn't mean anything by it. I know he didn't mean to offend anyone here. he's just trying to get his product out with something popular that some people like. lets get over it and move on. just my 2 cents
Mrs. FV,
I personally don't give a Rats Rear about the Iron Cross, it is still the symbol of the German State and the modern Luftwaffe today, notice the Iron Cross on the F4 Phantom in this photo.
http://teejee.mine.nu/f4fstart.jpg
or on this F104 Starfighter...
http://teejee.mine.nu/f1042301.jpg

MRS FLYIN VEE
10-30-2003, 09:18 PM
i don't give a rats ass about it either. i'm just saying it is a symbol that some would like to forget and it is a symbol that people like now adays alot of people have it like the iron cross mirrors for motor cycles, and so on and so forth. like i said just my two cents no need to be an ass about it. :D

Dr. Eagle
10-30-2003, 09:21 PM
Originally posted by MRS FLYIN VEE
i don't give a rats ass about it either. i'm just saying it is a symbol that some would like to forget and it is a symbol that people like now adays alot of people have it like the iron cross mirrors for motor cycles, and so on and so forth. like i said just my two cents no need to be an ass about it. :D
Sorry, I understand the point, enough already!. Not meaning to be an ass at all, (probably doin a good job as usual though). My point is just that it is still considered a state symbol of the FRG and the german air force. You would think perhaps they might want to forget its past as well...that's all. :D :D :D :D

MRS FLYIN VEE
10-30-2003, 09:26 PM
i am a dudette thank you very much and no harm done i agree with both views. to a certain extent. I do not like the symbol because of what the germans use it for but i like it because they look good on our iron horse. but also i can be an ass myself so now were even. :D :p :D :p

Dr. Eagle
10-30-2003, 09:30 PM
Originally posted by MRS FLYIN VEE
i am a dudette thank you very much and no harm done i agree with both views. to a certain extent. I do not like the symbol because of what the germans use it for but i like it because they look good on our iron horse. but also i can be an ass myself so now were even. :D :p :D :p
Sorry again, as you note I edited it when I noticed that the answer was from you Mrs FV... I was gonna change it to dudette, but decided not to . I understand peoples sensitivities to the symbol. The truly evil (my Opinion) German symbol was the Swastika. But that it just my .02 and now I hope we can just let these folks sell some canopies!

MRS FLYIN VEE
10-30-2003, 09:36 PM
you got it doc. like i said i can be an ass at times to so i too say sorry but the one with the g-string looks awesome i wouldn't mind having one of those. :D i also didn't notice your edit on the post. so harm done just havin some fun. :D

Dr. Eagle
10-30-2003, 09:39 PM
Originally posted by MRS FLYIN VEE
you got it doc. like i said i can be an ass at times to so i too say sorry but the one with the g-string looks awesome i wouldn't mind having one of those. :D i also didn't notice your edit on the post. so harm done just havin some fun. :D
Yeah, I think I'll order two of those in the G-string...oh that's right, they're on BACK ORDER....! See how good I am at being an ass??
:rolleyes: :D :D :D :D

j-rod
10-30-2003, 09:41 PM
Doc. "You Rock" I like you but you're crazy!!

Dr. Eagle
10-30-2003, 10:09 PM
Originally posted by j-rod
Doc. "You Rock" I like you but you're crazy!!
We all have our cross to bear...

MagicMtnDan
10-30-2003, 10:17 PM
Well there's no question that one very good thing came out of this thread - a terrific design for a sun shade! This thing is HOT! Make these things and you'll sell a buttload of them :D
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/907canopy2_copy-med.jpg

Dr. Eagle
10-30-2003, 10:39 PM
Originally posted by RiverDave
LOL... :D
I'm starting to think that Dr. Eagle oughta change his name to Dr. Evil. ;) :D
RD
Dr. Eagle is a play on Dr. Evil...just at the time that the second Austin Powers movie came out I had an Eliminator Eagle. And now you know.....the rest of...the ...story! It is also why my Sea Doos are named Mini Me 1 and Mini Me 2...:D

Dr. Eagle
10-30-2003, 10:42 PM
Originally posted by MagicMtnDan
Well there's no question that one very good thing came out of this thread - a terrific design for a sun shade! This thing is HOT! Make these things and you'll sell a buttload of them :D
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/907canopy2_copy-med.jpg
DUDE, LMFAO, butt, butt, butt, ..........that CRACKS me up! Guess it could be called the Philip McCracken model...or perhaps the Ben Dover special?

Waldo
10-30-2003, 10:49 PM
What about the Maltese cross? It is very similar and has a history dating long ago with fire fighters.

Racing Ray
10-31-2003, 03:45 AM
In today’s modern world the swastika is a universal symbol of genocide and oppression. It has come to represent hatred and bigotry, and few people would willingly allow it adorn any property that they own, let alone their person. This wasn’t always the case however. About three thousand years ago many different people commonly used the swastika.
Archeologists have found the symbol on many artifacts, like pottery and coins, dating from the time of ancient Troy. As time marched on tire symbol spread throughout the world and could be found in many cultures, including in China, Japan, India, and southern Europe.
By the Middle Ages it was widely recognized, if not widely used, and known by many different names. In China it was a wan for example, and in Greece a gammadion. American Indian tribes used it as a symbol of life. Some scholars even say it was used as an early symbol of Christianity. It’s cool though. because until Hitler saw fit to use the swastika for his own purposes it had a completely different meaning.
The word “swatstika” comes from the Sanskrit svastika - “su” meaning “good,”asti” meaning “to be,” and “ka” as a suffix. That’s right; until the Nazi party effectively redefined it, the swastika was generally a symbol of life, power, strength, and good luck.
Even into the early 20th century it still had this meaning. According to one source, the swastika was a common decoration that often adorned cigarette cases, postcards, coins, and buildings. During World War II the swastika could even be found on the shoulder patches of the American 45th Division and on the Finnish air force until after the World War II.

HOSS
10-31-2003, 05:04 AM
Anybody know what this symbol is?

nodigg
10-31-2003, 06:48 AM
I was accustomed to slamming anything with the iron cross on it as I too associated it with Nazi germany like so many of us do. That was until I started riding bikes again (Harleys) and was informed (and therefore enlightened) by my daughter that it was a symbol of heroism, bravery, freedom and most importantly for me now, FREEDOM, and for the pursuit of one's ideals. It is for me now representitive of freedom to express oneself. I had a hard time with it until I accepted that though it was used by Hitler, he did NOT invent it and does not hold rights to it. Now the swastica is a whole different thing. That is just unacceptable.
I used to fly the Dixie flag because I was from the south. For me it had nothing to do with slavery or backwoods thinking. I stopped a long time ago because it was taken wrong too many times. I now look at a Dixie flag and wonder if it is coming from a proud southernor or from a prejudiced peckerwood.
Interpretation is so much a part of what we see and display!
Now back to the canopy.................NICE!

HOOTER SLED-
10-31-2003, 07:59 AM
Originally posted by FingerTight
FYI:
Long before WCC used it:
http://www.independenttrucks.com/
(For all those Thrasher punks in the crowd...)
:D
Exactly, It's all about the Indies. This symbol has been used for a while now. It's just more mainstream now. Same with flames etc. This stuff gets too mainstream, makes it not cool. Pretty soon lightning bolts will be coming back.

Sublime
10-31-2003, 08:01 AM
this Iron Cross can also be defined as a Maltese Crosscheck it out..
http://www2.prestel.co.uk/church/oosj/cross.htm.
I thought this was pretty freakin wierd, that the same cross represents two totally differant ways of life.......
take this for what its worth. I myself think the Cross looks badass on the shade cover.... German or Maltese

HOSS
10-31-2003, 08:01 AM
What`s the matter with lightning bolts? I was gonna get one tatooed on the underside of my shaft.

burbanite
10-31-2003, 08:11 AM
Jeff,
we are still waiting on a decision from our sponsors on color schemes....:rolleyes: Doesn't seem that hard to me but there you have it, I'll let you know as soon as I hear something.
Steve.

Dr. Eagle
10-31-2003, 08:12 AM
Originally posted by HOSS
Anybody know what this symbol is?
Hoss,
I guessed what the picture was before I even opened it...you're getting too predictable!
:D :eek: :eek: :D

BADAXE
10-31-2003, 08:49 AM
Originally posted by Rexone
I agree w/ya Dan, I don't dig the iron cross stuff, anywhere. Although it has a long origin, it's most recently associated with Nazi Germany so it ain't gonna appear on any of my shiznit. ever. but maybe that's just me. I'm kind a funny about that kinda stuff. I think maybe the younger gen just doesn't get the full Nazi connection dealio or maybe don't know what WW2 was really all about sometimes cause it looks cool and everyone's got it, its lost its association in their minds ...whatever. to each his own. I know for me though everytime I see that symbol, anywhere, I think of one thing. Hitler and the millions he exterminated, burned and killed. I never buy any type of product that incorporates any of these types of symbols either. But again its probably just me.
I think the guys got a great looking shade product. If I bought one it would just have somethin else on it that's all.
I agree 100% with this. Anyone who uses this cross in any way (particularly to make money) shows total disregard for the horror that this symbol represents. you talked about the extermination of millions and you can add to that the MILLIONS OF AMERICANS WHO LOST THEIR LIVES fighting against what that symbol stands for. It really doesn't matter how long the cross has been around, it only matters what it means to most everyone in the world. All the skin heads are sitting back and laughing that their favorite symbol has made it into the mainstream. It's very sad and I'm very sad for the ignorent people that would choose to argue an opposing point. :frown:

OGShocker
10-31-2003, 10:50 AM
Originally posted by HOSS
What`s the matter with lightning bolts? I was gonna get one tatooed on the underside of my shaft.
Why didn't you? Did the tatoo guy tell you he cannot work on something the size of a human hair?:D

Screaming Pete
10-31-2003, 12:32 PM
Originally posted by wineguy069
A suggestion, far more peaceful than the German cross .
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/907canopy2_copy-med.jpg
Howcansomethingbe so wrong and totaly right at the same time??:D

topgun
10-31-2003, 01:01 PM
Original swastika is an egyptian symbol.

Bense468
10-31-2003, 01:27 PM
In my opinion, (since I have done research on this) The multise cross is not racist. Even the german Iron cross is a medal of honor. How is that racist? Is the purple heart racist to other countries? I run some billet shit on my banshee that has the cross in it. The market is calling for it, so why not go where the market is going. That is what marketing is all about. I think you should keep making them and I would take them out to the river, glamis, bike runs etc to show people what you got. Give them cards and sell the shit out of them.
I know I will be getting one.

MagicMtnDan
10-31-2003, 01:49 PM
Originally posted by HOSS
What`s the matter with lightning bolts? I was gonna get one tatooed on the underside of my shaft.
Wouldn't that make it a lightning rod? :D

THATJEFFGUY
11-02-2003, 10:20 AM
.

hislittleho
11-02-2003, 02:31 PM
What an intresting topic this has become. I hope you don't mind my 2 cents. I think too many people think this "cross" is cool looking.
I also think to many more people it brings a very painful past or history a major loss of loved ones . It's good to know that people still can look at this cross with compassion and sympathy for those lost to it. It's very hard for some to look at the cross as a profit. Well to each thier own. :confused:

MagicMtnDan
11-03-2003, 08:29 AM
Originally posted by RiverDave
Dan, how do you feel now that you've totally destroyed this guys marketing plan for his canopies?
RD
I don't know RD, how do YOU feel now that you've blamed me for "destroying this guy's marketing plan for his canopies" simply because I've expressed my opinion?
If expressing one's opinion "destroys someone's marketing plan" maybe it wasn't such a good plan?
And if expressing an opinion is a bad thing, that makes YOU the worst person to visit these forums.

MagicMtnDan
11-03-2003, 10:57 AM
I actually love the g-string canopy and hope he makes and sells the hell outta them!
(Since this is printed/text communications, humor and sarcasm are hard to discern unless hints like smilies are provided :) )
-Magic Mtn (didn't know you were only joking) Dan

cyclone
11-03-2003, 11:57 AM
iron cross= played out worse than chicks in hot pink cowboy hats at the sandbar.

cyclone
11-03-2003, 12:02 PM
Originally posted by RiverDave
Bring your boat back for more Bling Bling Mike... I got some great Iron Cross ideas. :D
P.S. Played out like your steering wheel Iron cross?? Or played out as in played out.. :D
RD :D :D
.
nah, my steering wheel is pimp as f$ck.
But i'm over seeing all these trend-biting 714/949/909 start up clothing, scooter, fabrication shop/ insert business type here/ companies using iron crosses on their logos. can't they come up with something original?

MRS FLYIN VEE
11-03-2003, 12:04 PM
Originally posted by cyclone
iron cross= played out worse than chicks in hot pink cowboy hats at the sandbar.
well mine is blue so i'm safe i guess. :yuk:

cyclone
11-03-2003, 12:08 PM
Originally posted by MRS FLYIN VEE
well mine is blue so i'm safe i guess. :yuk:
exactly. blue is ok, pink not ok.
If you like, i'll start making fun of instead of the cowboy hats..:D

cyclone
11-03-2003, 12:09 PM
Originally posted by RiverDave
But it's cool if you have it on your steering wheel?? LOL
I wanna be a part of that club, where if I have it it's cool.. but if anyone else has it, it's played out.. :D
Just messin with ya Mike. :D
BTW, do you know where I can get one of those in a smaller diameter? I'll PM ya.. I really don't want to have to make that if I don't have too.. LOL
RD
today its cool because i havent seen it on any other boats. the moment half of OC shows up at the river with iron cross steering wheels on their boats, then mine is coming off and you can have it. get my point?