arneson surface drives...

[bordsmnj]

anyone know about how much these go for? i'm thinking of the conversion kit they offer for a bravo to surface drive conversion its the small one. i just think that a ski boat that does 80 with a rooster tial would be cool.:D

[Bryan Rose]

going through the same thing now . I am considering converting the jet drive in my boat now to a surface drive. I spoke with the guys out at Arneson and the person I realy needed to speak with , his name is Rick is out until Monday . Seems to me the price is not that bad considering it can be cheaper than a typical outdrive unit that will survive under the same HP and torque the motor puts out.

[bordsmnj]

your post over in just jets is what got the wheels turning in my head. i checked out their web site. lemme know what yuh find out from rick:D thanks

[Havasu Hangin']

I looked into this awhile back. Other than some hydraulics needed, the stopper for me was some "flesh-unfriendly" hardware hanging pretty close to my swimsteps.
On my old, heavy boat...the performance gains probably would have neen minimal.

[rivercrazy]

Take out the stereo gear. I bet that would increase your speed by a few mph!:p

[Havasu Hangin']

Originally posted by rivercrazy
Take out the stereo gear. I bet that would increase your speed by a few mph!
Hey...I have my priorities!

[LaveyJet]

Originally posted by Havasu Hangin'
the stopper for me was some "flesh-unfriendly" hardware hanging pretty close to my swimsteps.
No $hit, looks like a Godamn meat grinder.:eek!: :eek!: :eek!:

[Jbb]

http://www.arneson-industries.com/

[Rivertoys]

Originally posted by Havasu Hangin'
On my old, heavy boat...the performance gains probably would have neen minimal.
You know, they (http://www.laveycraft.com) sell new boats! ;) :D :D
RTJas :D

[Jbb]

Originally posted by Rivertoys
You know, they (http://www.laveycraft.com) sell new boats! ;) :D :D
RTJas :D
And easily affordable on a moderators salary.................:D

[Bryan Rose]

http://arneson-industries.com/Rocker_Plate_Donzi.jpg

[Havasu Hangin']

Originally posted by JETBOAT BRIAN
And easily affordable on a moderators salary....
I do take bribes...you jackholes.
GEOO's ride:
http://www.arneson-industries.com/GD.jpg
and don't forget Gas Turbine's sled:
http://home.columbus.rr.com/n8wct/mvc-916f.jpg
How much is a Rolla these days?

[Infomaniac]

The pulse drive is a bit safer.
The shaft is supported by the swim step
The swim step hinges at the transom and the entire thing trims.
Steers with rudders

[AZKC]

I think the cost on the one for a 20-24ft boat was around 6 G's when I cked them out a little over a year ago. I will do one some day just to say I did. But I gota get the $$$ to piss away first.
KC

[bordsmnj]

thanks azkc. 6 g's sounds worth it untill the gf and wife find out about it. maybe i'll save up for a whipple sc then when the bravo drive grenades I can say hey lets get one a these instead??:D

[AZKC]

Good plan, sounds like one I've used a few times :D
KC

[Bryan Rose]

More of this Feature
• Part 1: Surface Drives
• Part 2: Surface Drives continued
• Surface-Piercing Drive Diagram
Related Resources
• Features Index
Elsewhere on the Web
• Twin Disc
Twin Disc has tested a pair of identical 53-foot Magnums powered by twin 1,080-hp diesel engines, one boat fitted with conventional inboards and the other with Arnesons. According to the company, the inboard-powered boat (weighing 57,500 pounds) reached a top speed of 45 mph, while the boat with surface drives (weighing slightly more at 59,500 pounds) was clocked at 56 mph. A similar test with identical 18-foot runabouts, each powered by a single 400-hp gasoline engine, compared a waterjet and an Arneson surface drive. The company measured a top speed of 67 mph for the waterjet boat compared with 88 mph for the surface drive boat. Twin Disc has no bias in such a test since it manufactures both surface drives and waterjet drives.

[BADBLOWN572]

Jason, if you want more speed I think that the Whipple would be the best bet. I think that the 6.2 with a whipple charget can get to approx. 500-600 h.p. That will get you going pretty well. Additionally, if you drive the boat concervatively you shouldn't have a problem with the drive. One thing that I would recommend is the use of an external steering system at that speed. Single ram systems are around $3k-4k depending on what system you run.

[Just Tool'n]

Originally posted by AZKC
I think the cost on the one for a 20-24ft boat was around 6 G's when I cked them out a little over a year ago. I will do one some day just to say I did. But I gota get the $$$ to piss away first.
KC
Was that a complete setup, the tabs & Hyd rams?
If so this is a hell of alot cheaper way to go than tricking out a bravo drive!

[spectras only]

Back in 1980 a buddy of mine had a 28' Steve Jones deep V offshore boat .It was equipped with a good [ bronze model] arneson drive, pushed by a twin turboed 460 cu into high 60's [ 68 mph] .It took some time to get on plane , hence the weight of this boat but once on plane it was a blast:D . With the recent hassles about safety on outdrives [ John's from Ultra boats] I would check with insurers first;) before installing them . PS; I would be more interested in the pulse drive [ I think Tempest boats used those with succes] Info mentioned. The less moving parts the better ;)

[bordsmnj]

Originally posted by BADBLOWN572
Jason, if you want more speed I think that the Whipple would be the best bet. I think that the 6.2 with a whipple charget can get to approx. 500-600 h.p. That will get you going pretty well. Additionally, if you drive the boat concervatively you shouldn't have a problem with the drive. One thing that I would recommend is the use of an external steering system at that speed. Single ram systems are around $3k-4k depending on what system you run.
...and don't forget the trim tabs to keep it in the water!:D with 500+hp my boat would be scary. as for the driving conservatively i don't think i could even kid myself about that. probably hafta at least change out the top bearing cap.
all this is suposition though cuase for a while i'm gonna be broke. it's looking like i might be able to get a house in the next year or so if i save EVERY penny........but damn i wanna be blown!
:cool:

[Craig]

Originally posted by Just Tool'n
Was that a complete setup, the tabs & Hyd rams?
If so this is a hell of alot cheaper way to go than tricking out a bravo drive!
I thought you guys were talking about that prop. Are you? The whole Arneson to Bravo conversion kit is about 13 grand as of a couple of months ago. I looked at it but would have to fill in the notch in my sponson to fit the transom adaptor on.

[BADBLOWN572]

Jason trust me I know the feeling, but let me tell you that speed is addictive and keeps getting more and more expensive for every mile per hour you want to go faster. It is amazing when you are considering spending an additional $1k for each MPH you want to go faster. I was an agressive driver until the second drive grendaded. After that, you learn to drive conservatively. Just don't hammer it off of the line or accelerate too hard and the drive should be fine. As for tabs, I think that they are about $1500 or so, but probably a worthy investment.

[Havasu Hangin']

Originally posted by Craig
I thought you guys were talking about that prop. Are you? The whole Arneson to Bravo conversion kit is about 13 grand as of a couple of months ago. I looked at it but would have to fill in the notch in my sponson to fit the transom adaptor on.
Yeah...I think $12K is about what it would have cost me.

[Just Tool'n]

Originally posted by Havasu Hangin'
Yeah...I think $12K is about what it would have cost me.
Now I know why guys are not going that way. Too much$$$$$
What does a new IMCO 4x4 cost?

[acatitude]

had 1981 carrera elite with arneson #6 drive, blown 468, ran mid 90's all day and never broke a drive in 23 years and drive is still on boat. Not much out of hole but from 30mph on it is a great drive. A jet with this conversion will see a big increase. hydraulic steering a must I would think. The main positive is you can throw lots of hp at an arneson and it will take it, no 2,3,4 grand for blowing drives. A good investment for long term . will try to post a couple pics if i can find them of drive. have boat pics

[Havasu Cig]

For a Havasu boat, or any boat where you will be in the water around the boat, it would be to dangerous in my opinion.
If I was just running in the ocean I would seriously consider the Arneson.

[BiggusJimbus]

There's nothing that makes this any more dangerous than any other prop boat. In fact, since the prop is at the surface and you can see it, It may be safer than a boat with a prop a foot or two below the surface.
Just my opinion.

[spectras only]

Originally posted by BiggusJimbus [/i]
[B]There's nothing that makes this any more dangerous than any other prop boat.
Just my opinion. BJ, I don't quite agree with you on that one:wink: My V-drive boat has the prop underneath the hull a foot forward the transom. My buddies Arneson was sticking out way past the transom but still under the surface while resting.Wich boat would you rather fall in at the transom accidentally ? My friend's boat didn't have a swim platform [ if I ever install an AD ,would make a platform 4' deep:p ]

[Craig]

Originally posted by Just Tool'n
Now I know why guys are not going that way. Too much$$$$$
What does a new IMCO 4x4 cost?
I heard it was going to be about 22 grand, anyone know for sure :confused:

[Havasu Cig]

Originally posted by BiggusJimbus
There's nothing that makes this any more dangerous than any other prop boat. In fact, since the prop is at the surface and you can see it, It may be safer than a boat with a prop a foot or two below the surface.
Just my opinion.
The Arneson's I have seen stick well out beyond the transom. If you are running cleavers it would very dangerous to swim around (most I have seen are running cleavers). I had a passenger in my O/B cat cut her ankle very badly on one of the cleavers. I could not imagine falling on one of these. :eek:

[Dave C]

You guys got me thinking. AD might be an option for a NEW boat, ESPECIALLY, if the new boat isn’t going to have a stock motor installed.
I know that the new XR plus HP Gimbal will run about $13,000 installed. ($9,000 + $3,000) plus at least $4,000 for the power steering. If you budget in $4,000 for the first “blow-up” on the Mercruiser, now your talking $20,000.
So if the AD can be had for this or less it makes sense.
Anyone seen one of these in person? or how they perform compared to a Mercruiser????

[Havasu Cig]

I have seen them in person, but have not been in a boat with it.

[spectras only]

DaveC , read my post on page 1 . They're slow out the hole, then hang on. Watch the video on that little Donzi with one .

[yomama]

Had a 30' Larry Smith Scarab with a pair of ASD6's, powered by small blocks through BW velvet drives. As has been said, not much out of the hole, given this is a larger boat. Mid and top were pretty good. Maneuverability, especially around the docks was less that spectacular. My .02..........with cleavers mounted and people around...they are an accident waiting to happen.
Unlikely any swim platform will stick out far enough to cover them. These drives were developed mainly with offshore in mind.
Awesome roster tail though :D :D

[acatitude]

All drives are dangerous with people jumping in and out of boat. The arneson does stick out past the swim step and I was continuiously advising people to be careful. I didnt let the kids jump in and out of my boat for that reason, but I never had anyone get hurt on my drive. Its not the drive, its the people around it and there condition that usually cause the problem.
Just depends on how fast ya wanta go and how many bravos ya want to peplace each year . my 2 cents

[Cole]

I am having a hard time trying to understand why it would be any more dangerous with an outdrive that hangs out a little further than the other.....equally as dangerous!!!You just need to stay clear of both of them!!
i would think the Arneson is so.....protrusive, that you would WANT to stay clear!!! damn that drive is awsome looking

[Havasu Hangin']

Originally posted by Cole
I am having a hard time trying to understand why it would be any more dangerous with an outdrive that hangs out a little further than the other.....equally as dangerous!!!You just need to stay clear of both of them!!
In my case, with the outdrive in the down position and the motor off, anyone swimming around the back of the boat would really have to try to hit the prop (with a vest on), as it's below the cavitation plate on the outdrive under the swimsteps. In fact, it's easier to get in my boat by stepping on the top of the outdrive (if you're careful).
With an Arneson, there's nothing between you and the prop, not counting the fact that it's a little shallower, and extending past the swimsteps- the farther past past the swimsteps...the tougher it is for feet to avoid (even with a vest on).
Also, I'd imagine it would be tougher to tend to a tow rope with a shallower (and farther back) prop position...not counting the rooster tail (that can't be trimmed down).
Like I said...everyone would have to weigh the plusses and minuses for themselves. We do alot of swimming/skiing/wakeboarding behind my boat, so I didn't pursue it.

[Infomaniac]

The Pulse Drive has a full swim platform and the prop is under it. The rudders flank the propeller and are behind it.
The swim platform pivots at the transom and the drive shaft is supported by the swim platform.
Bravo makes a pretty good roost if the "X" is optimum.
Poor pic (video capture)
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/211roost_2.jpg

[Boatlesss]

On the pulse drive there is cover, but the propellers are at the end of the cover not the beginning. Hence, you swim with it you get hurt by it.
The paradox here is that everyone wants a family boat that one can swim and sun and then go for a 200 mph pass.
Two different types of boats needed here.
I don't swim, stand on the back of a boat and I have never fell in the water from the transom, so I don't see any of this as an issue.

[SleekPanther]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Infomaniac
Snip.
Bravo makes a pretty good roost if the "X" is optimum.
snip
Are you referring to that Eliminator Daytona 23 with the whipples? if so, what is the X dim on that boat?
Thanks,
Paul
.

[Infomaniac]

Paul,
It is actually a modified Daytona. I think Wyatt bought the mold from Eliminator a number of years back.
I do not know what it actually measures. The drive is as high as it can go. It blows out pretty good getting on plane. After that watch out.

[Dr. Eagle]

Originally posted by spectras only
Originally posted by BiggusJimbus [/i]
[B]There's nothing that makes this any more dangerous than any other prop boat.
Just my opinion. BJ, I don't quite agree with you on that one:wink: My V-drive boat has the prop underneath the hull a foot forward the transom. My buddies Arneson was sticking out way past the transom but still under the surface while resting.Wich boat would you rather fall in at the transom accidentally ? My friend's boat didn't have a swim platform [ if I ever install an AD ,would make a platform 4' deep:p ]
I have been wanting to say something about this all along. I agree with you wholeheartedly SO. Being one who has argued with a prop and lost the argument, almost losing my leg in the process...I would not want that surface drive behind my boat...ESPECIALLY if I was using it primarily for recreation. It is an accident waiting to happen. And I will tell you that that single event has done more to change my life than anything that has happened to me before or since.l

[BADBLOWN572]

All of the Arneson Surface Drives that I have seen have been on larger boats, but from what I understand, they are all very similar. The drive spins a 17" prop which is coupled to a 2" shaft. The prop is a cleaver which is very sharp. With a bravo style drive, there is the prop protector which is immediately above the prop, which people typtically stand on or put pressure on. The Arneson drive does not have one at all. From the pictures, it appears that the prop begins at about 24" from the transom. I do not know of any swim step that will extend 24" from the transom. I would be extremely hesitant to put any one of these drives on a boat that I was planing on using for pleasure. The last thing that you need is someone swimming behind your boat and gets gashed by your prop. Not worth the hastle. If you are going to be pushing serious power, get a #6. If you are only going to be pushing medium power use a bravo or step into a B-Max. I know that I would not enjoy myself nearly as much if I was constantly worried about people hurting themselves around my boat. That would take any bit of enjoyment out of the picture.

[spectras only]

My buddy's boat was strictly for offshore use , and moored in a marina. If you put these puppies on a trailer boat ,you better have a prop cover on those meat cleavers to avoid a lawsuit by some suicidal moron;) . The earlier A/D models had a rooster eliminator on the upper fin but the cleavers would still cut you up if you bumped/swim into them .Back in the 80's big boats like tempest/apache etc.... had huge swimgrids above them .

[Dr. Eagle]

Originally posted by BADBLOWN572
With a bravo style drive, there is the prop protector which is immediately above the prop, which people typtically stand on or put pressure on.
The prop protector is actually an anti-cavitation plate, but it does cover the prop, if you have the drive trimmed down/under.
My unfortunate collision occured when I lifted the drives up and didn't think about how far they stuck out from the transom, or notice since I was in a hurry to keep the boat from backing into the beach. Toe hop, bang and life is now very different...
My own damn fault, but those Arneson Drives just look to be begging just such a nasty thing.
Really I am glad it was me that got hurt and not one of the 5 other people on the boat. I would have really felt like crap about that.

[Infomaniac]

Originally posted by BADBLOWN572
appears that the prop begins at about 24" from the transom. I do not know of any swim step that will extend 24" from the transom. .
http://pulsedrive.net/images/pleasure/004.jpg

[Dr. Eagle]

Originally posted by Infomaniac
http://pulsedrive.net/images/pleasure/004.jpg
I guess to each his own...
I think the platform ruins the boat's looks just my opinion, but far better that than dismembering the boats riders...
:D

[Infomaniac]

It's all give and take man. Does not look as bad on bigger boats.
Trims a lot farther out that distance from the transom. Can completely bury the prop for take off and have plenty of trim left.

[Dr. Eagle]

Originally posted by Infomaniac
It's all give and take man. Does not look as bad on bigger boats.
Trims a lot farther out that distance from the transom. Can completely bury the prop for take off and have plenty of trim left.
I can see that. Almost looks like a smaller version of the platform on the 33 baja that big anodized or powder coated metal thing...it would not look too out of place on an offshore boat. But I am pretty sure that the drives stick out farther on the bigger boat, don't they? They just scare me...that prop caused me too much pain to even begin to describe...

[spectras only]

here's a nice pair of blenders for you guys= http://www3.telus.net/spectrasonly/28086234_2.jpg

[Dr. Eagle]

Looks like it is set up to puree....ouch!:eek:

[spectras only]

here's the aluminum cat boat [50'] next to the meat cleaver boat[38'],built by the same guy [ another dream that didn't get finished before the bank got a hold of it:( ]. The arneson boat has twin 900 hp s/c engines:cool: , the cat boat will get a surface drive system
http://www3.telus.net/spectrasonly/50cat1jpeg.jpg
http://www3.telus.net/spectrasonly/50cat2jpeg.jpg
http://www3.telus.net/spectrasonly/50cat3jpeg.jpg
http://www3.telus.net/spectrasonly/50cat4jpeg.jpg
http://www3.telus.net/spectrasonly/50cat5jpeg.jpg
http://www3.telus.net/spectrasonly/50cat6jpeg.jpg
http://www3.telus.net/spectrasonly/50cat8jpeg.jpg

[Cole]

has ANYONE heard of somebody getting hurt with an AD? I havn't.
I like the idea on that HUGE yellow cat where they incorporate the "swimstep" persey over the drives.

[STVBOY]

The funny thing is that everyone thinks that you have to have a cleaver with a surface drive and that is not true. Most single engine boats need some bow lift and cleavers only produce stern lift. This is why Arneson has not had any success in there drives with a single engine because they have only used cleavers. Most outboards are pretty much a surface drive and usually use a cut chopper that gives bow and stern lift. A chopper can also be ran at the surface and perform very well. So those of you that are worried about safety with a cleaver don't run one it probably would be the wrong prop anyways.

[spectras only]

Arnesons were equipped with elephant ear type props for boats like searay , formula and other family type boats .

[Dr. Eagle]

Originally posted by spectras only
Arnesons were equipped with elephant ear type props for boats like searay , formula and other family type boats .
It was a Bravo 1 prop that did the damage to me....I don't think the prop type matters so much.
You don't generally hear about these kind of things when they happen, unless there is a fatality involved. Even then it is rare that you would hear about it. You just dont hear that someone had cut their leg off any more than you would if they got a paper cut on the manual.
That Aluminum boat looks damn cool. Is it being or has it been auctioned?

[spectras only]

DR Eagle,the cat and the V boat have been for sale for a couple of years at a local repo depot. [ the bank wanted high dollars for them] The cat was picked up just recently [ the bank wanted 100K cdn for it as is ].It's inside a hoop on this yard now ,being finished by a group to make it a poker run special;) .The finish is absolutely beatiful on both boats ,to me 100K sounds like a good deal for an aluminum boat this size ,knowing what tin boats going for nowdays.I think the other boat is still available [much higher price, since it's almost finished with running gear and upholstery] .I'll post the progress on the yellow boat ,since I'm around that yard often.

[Dr. Eagle]

Thanks SO, I like the look of the cat. I am not so taken with the V hull. The Cat's price seems reasonable especially if you came up there with US$, 100K for a (40'???) large cat hull doesn't seem out of line.
By all means keep us posted if you wouldn't mind.

[Boatlesss]

That yellow cat has some remarkable aluminum work.
Someone will have to cut that fixed pipe arrangement off the transom and install a real outdrive to make the boat work.
That boat will be impossible to dock with the current arrangement. A set of the Arneson’s would work great on that boat, one can make them steerable or use a rudder setup, but the rudder setup will be a nightmare for a pleasure boater.

[spectras only]

http://www3.telus.net/spectrasonly/OP_BragintonCapa.jpg Boatless , a guy I know here has one of these 42' Bragintons [motor boating pic] all white fiberglass without hot tub and woodtrim Triple engine setup ,and similar surface drive system to that cat.The rudders are like tunnels above the props and the boat actually handles quite good at the docks:cool: . He has the interior done up in birdseye maple . It's a huge banana boat;) and topspeed is only 60 MPH .I think there's only 4 of them made.