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Ian
12-10-2002, 03:02 PM
My outdrive is turning white, I'm sure this is because I haven't installed a driveshower. My friend told me he cleans his drive with toilet bowl cleaner, have any of you heard of this. Also where can I buy a drive shower for the best price, it is an alpha 1

1stepcloser
12-10-2002, 05:34 PM
The white stuff is the minerals from the water being left behind as the heat from the drive "cooks" the water off. This is due to the the drive being elevated from the water during running. This excessive heat will also shorten the life of the oil, possibly leading to a failure.
Yes, a drive shower will definately help this problem, a quality shower can be had from the Simrek (http://www.driveshowers.com) company. They make full coverage showers for both the Alpha and Bravo series drives.
You can also find cool showers at Imco marine (http://www.imcomarine.com)
Teague (http://www.teaguecustommarine.com/) makes a pretty cool one also...

rivercrazy
12-11-2002, 10:08 AM
I think a drive shower provides cheap insurance and will extend the life of any stern drive.
There is ample evidence in published reports that it lowers the temperature of oil in the drive. The fact that it keeps the top cap of the drive cleaner is just a nice side benefit!

1stepcloser
12-11-2002, 10:49 AM
RiverDave:
I suppose they would have ya believe that a dark gelcoat needs a shower as well?
Unless your pumping some serious pony's (which we already know your not becuase your running an alpha) and running for long distances on plane (I.E. Poker Runs) then ya don't need one. Save your dinero and get some good cleaner.
Unless your just looking for another shiny piece on the back of your boat. (Which in fact is the only reason I'd ever buy one)Hmmph. :confused:

steve@kps
12-11-2002, 10:53 AM
kinda have to agree w/ RD.... the "white stuff" is mostly the alkai. It can be cleaned off w/ Zing or some sort of toilet bowl cleaner. Drive showers are meant to be a cooling device for the oil and gears in the upper drive. Since the u-joint has such a load on it, it's hard to keep it cool. In fact the upper drive actually has less oil in it than the lower unit. Most alpha's only use standard oil. You may want to replace w/ a good synthetic oil and make sure your anodic plates (3 of em') are in good shape and just do a little cleaning.
But, a drive shower does look cool,and will keep the upper drive running at a lower temp. I run a Bravo here and guess what........IT'S F"ING TURNING WHITE. w/ a drive shower. eek!
[ December 11, 2002, 10:59 AM: Message edited by: steve@kps ]

rivercrazy
12-11-2002, 10:58 AM
I run my boat over long distances (1-3 hours at a time) at decent crusing speeds. With the drive shower, the top cap is staying remarkably clean. No white buildup at all.

1stepcloser
12-11-2002, 11:28 AM
I'm gonna go with rivercrazy here on this one. I have benn running a Bravo for 8 years now, with Teague shower and the cap stays pretty clean. It requires minimal cleaning at the end of the season.
As an example though, last year, I was at Havasu for the first trip, and when the weekend was over and I retrieved the boat from the water, I noticed the top of the drive was covered with residue. Turns out a spider had made a home inside the shower tube, cutting off the flow of water.
I'm not gonna get into an argument over this, I'm just staing my opinion based on published tests, and my own experience.
I would not run an outdrive withoout a shower. They are a (relatively) inexpensive device that has been proven to do what they say.
One last thing...would you run your engine without an oil cooler? wink

steve@kps
12-11-2002, 02:52 PM
1step.
I totally agree w/ ya on the shower being a necessary item on the bravo drive. The lakes we run around here have a high salt content and could be the problem????
bottom line, the drive shower does what it advertises(cools the drive).

steve@kps
12-11-2002, 03:00 PM
quote from 1stepcloser
"One last thing...would you run your engine without an oil cooler? "
yeah, if the lake water would circulate around the motor......LMAO j/k :D wink

Desert Rat
12-11-2002, 03:34 PM
I use either ZAP (as seen on TV) or lime away. Both work very well but can discolor you prop if if gets on it.

rivercrazy
12-11-2002, 04:49 PM
Well since your pad is only a few miles away from Sundance and Foxes, I doubt a drive shower would be of much value anyway! :D :D :D
I think I read that the top cap of a drive under longer driving runs could top 200 degrees. Since the oil in the drive will thin when it heats up, it provides less potential lubercation and adherence to the gears. Gear oil is designed to be thick so it adheres better and longer than a thinner viscosity.
My .01 and humble opinion anyway....
[ December 11, 2002, 04:50 PM: Message edited by: rivercrazy ]

boatnam2
12-11-2002, 09:38 PM
i totally agree with rd and have done some testing on this matter ie: hanging off the back of the boat at speeds just to see how good they work.the few i had not very good.one thing that is rough on a drive is there is not very much oil in a drive and it get used up pretty quick under extreme conditions.

Ian
12-11-2002, 10:55 PM
I was unaware this topic would open up such a big can of worms. Thanks for all the tips. I was pretty sure I didn't need a shower, but they do look cool and I'm sure it won't hurt anything

1stepcloser
12-12-2002, 07:57 AM
Ian:
I'm sure it won't hurt anythingWell there you go then. :) wink :cool:

steve@kps
12-12-2002, 08:03 AM
NO WORMS HERE.............we are all just learning something new.... that's just the way things get discussed!
ALL IN GOOD FUN, GUYS. :p
NOW WHERE DID MY DARNED AVATAR GO, AGAIN????
[ December 12, 2002, 08:04 AM: Message edited by: steve@kps ]

rivercrazy
12-12-2002, 08:59 AM
Its all good in the hood RD. How many hours on the rebuilt Bravo do you have? :D
[QUOTE]Originally posted by RiverDave:
[QB][QUOTE]Originally posted by rivercrazy:
[qb]
Dave, I sincerely don't want to sound like a smart ass here but how do we know the engineers didn't take this into account and run tighter clearances on the gears? Maybe it's bad to keep that oil "thick." wink
After logging 360+ fairly hard hours on a Bravo with 385HP I can tell you that it runs fine. (By hard I mean lots of starting and stopping)
[ December 12, 2002, 09:00 AM: Message edited by: rivercrazy ]

steve@kps
12-12-2002, 10:32 AM
POOR IAN, he's probably sittin' there thinking....damn, why did i start this thread :rolleyes: j/k LOL
sorry, IAN, i just had too... :p
[ December 12, 2002, 10:50 AM: Message edited by: steve@kps ]

rivercrazy
12-12-2002, 10:33 AM
Just giving ya some crap RD. All in good fun. Someday I will probably also need to have something replaced on an outdrive due to where we boat most often...

rivercrazy
12-12-2002, 10:59 AM
Damn strait! Hats are cheap. O/D's are NOT

Jordy
12-12-2002, 11:26 AM
The outdrive fell off my boat... guess I don't need a drive shower now. :D

steve@kps
12-12-2002, 11:28 AM
wink
that tiger looks like it has fleas...LOL..
maybe it needs a "shower" j/k :D

rivercrazy
12-12-2002, 11:31 AM
LMAO. Or maybe Crabs.... J/K LOL! :D :D :D

rude235
12-12-2002, 09:20 PM
rivercrazy, don't let the numbers on a bottle of gear lube, such as 80w90 fool ya. it doesn't necessarily mean that the oil is thicker. the larger numbers were given to gear lubes to seperate them from automotive oils and avoid confusion. a good synthetic gear lube is highly recommended in somthing like an outdrive and has been proven to lower the operating temps. Amsoil all the way!

steve@kps
12-13-2002, 07:58 AM
:(
Well guys, i've been doing some research and talking to mechanics in the industry. We were all correct. :rolleyes:
Seems that the largest problem causing the "excessive" buildup is the fact that the "alkai" is essentially "burning" to the outdrive cassing. Some drives have the wrong oil and cause the drive to "overheat". And some drives simply build too much heat.
Since all boats are different. The only cure is to simply cure the situation by either adding (as i said) synthetic lube. And if that doesn't cure the problem then do what 1stepclosser mentioned. Add a drive shower to assist in cooling the outdrive!
This was a fun topic. And i know i learned something. I hope nobody got offended. :)
steve g.

1stepcloser
12-13-2002, 08:04 AM
Hey Steve,
I shot ya a fiver for your diplomacy... :D :D

steve@kps
12-13-2002, 08:10 AM
damn, i may have to run for governor....LOL

Infomaniac
12-13-2002, 10:21 AM
I read in Hot Boat a few years back about testing Prolong in an outdrive. It made the drive shift easier and reduced the operating temp quite a bit.
I put 1 ounce in my Alpha SS and the first time I put in gear it shifted like butter. I was sold. It did run much cooler also.
Heat good or bad for a drive? I am not a drive expert by any means. I have talked with technicians in the past about rebuilding a high time drive. The cases are cast aluminum. After many many thermal cycles, they are just not the same. You cannot get some of the tolerances back good as new because of this.
If there is any disadvantage to high drive temps, my opinion would be the fact of the much different rate of thermal expansion between the steel internals and the cast aluminum case.

Ian
12-13-2002, 07:22 PM
Thanks too all of you for all the info. Hey infomaniac, if your cougar ever comes up missing, it wasn't me. I just want you to know that now. That is one of the baddest boats I've ever seen, where do you run it? What kind of MPH you get out of it? My dad and I are partners on a blown gas Cole TR2, we run it up at Needles and the Kings River mostly.

Ian
12-13-2002, 07:29 PM
I shot you all a fiver for the good info.

Infomaniac
12-13-2002, 08:18 PM
Ian:
Thanks too all of you for all the info. Hey infomaniac, if your cougar ever comes up missing, it wasn't me. I just want you to know that now. That is one of the baddest boats I've ever seen, where do you run it? What kind of MPH you get out of it? My dad and I are partners on a blown gas Cole TR2, we run it up at Needles and the Kings River mostly.The Cougar is my Okie lake rocket. It can be seen at Ft.Gibson or Keystone lakes around Tulsa. I did take it to Texas once this year. Will probably do it again. It was radared at 134 there. Was running well that day.

Chaddyshack
01-18-2003, 01:55 PM
If this is such an issue with temperatures on the drive... why doesn't anybody ever put a gauge on it and mount it on the console so anybody can monitor it???
It seems to me that if this was such a "critical" item, that the manufacturers would mount the gauge right next to the oil pressure and water temperature.
I see both sides, but what kind of temperature differences are we talking about???
my .02

twistedpair
01-21-2003, 12:30 PM
Chaddyshack:
I see both sides, but what kind of temperature differences are we talking about???
my .02 I seem to recall a ***boat article on this from several years ago. I think they saw in the neighborhood of a 20 Deg. drop with the shower. The article also said cooler temps would help longevity of the drive.

78Eliminator
01-21-2003, 02:12 PM
Infomaniac:
It was radared at 134 there. Was running well that day. Good God!!!!! Are you serious? I think I'm gonna sell my Daytona and switch to the V-Drive world....

gnarley
01-21-2003, 04:13 PM
I was told by an OMC shop in the Midwest (forgot the name) but they worked with OMC when they developed the King Cobra drives and they told me to drain the oil and run 75w/90 synthetic gear lube in it & the temp would drop by 75 degrees! Why not? If synthetic is good in engines & used in auto racing gearboxes & diffs, why not in outdrives?

powerplay230
01-21-2003, 04:44 PM
First and I'm not going to get into this part but solve the problem of needing drive shower. But I do know for a fact snobol toilet cleaner will clean gel coat or anything else of stains and won't harm gelcoat, will harm your skin!!!! $1.19 cheaper and quicker than anything else, just pour it on and rinse off that's it. devil