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WHIPPED502
02-07-2004, 06:10 PM
I am in the market for a new stereo system for my boat. What I have now is a bunch of holes and cut wires were my stereo was before it got stolen.
What I had was a Sony CD unit, 2 sets of 6.5 2 way Infinity Reference Series mounted up high. One pair at front seats and another pair at back seats. 1 pair 6x9 2 way Infinity Reference speakers mounted 2 feet below 6.5's at back seats. 2 10" Access Technology Subwoofers mounted under back seat running free air. 1 Audiobahn 6x75 watt amp for the 6 speakers and an Autotek 2x250 for subs. (Not positive on sub amp but close)
I liked the Sony head unit in that it didn't skip much. I want to stay with the Sony so that I can add the wired remote.
1. When getting the new unit should I get one with dual preout
or dual with a sub preout
The Infinity's didn't sound bad but they didn't have the crisp clear sound I would like. They either had alot of air space behind them or they opened up into a storage area in the side panels.
1. Would it help to box them in from behind?
2. Would it be worth upgrading speaker and to what?
I like the subs in that they are marine and had a sturdy plastic grill. I listen to rock and alternative most of the time and I like the bass to fill and not overpower everything. I like a crisp bass not booming. I think I am going with the billet covers and don't neccesarily need the marine subs.
1.What subs and should I add 2 more?
2. Should I box them or keep them free air?
I liked the Audiobahn 6 channel amp. It never heated up. I liked that it had dual fans and a meter to tell me how many volts was getting to it. I am thinking of getting another Audiobahn for my subs. I like that they have a remote bass control. The price I can get these amps at seems right. I had this amp for only one season. What is the long term reliability of these amps? Pro's and con's of these amps.
Sorry for the long post and thanks ahead of time for any comments,suggestions and help.
John

Havasu Hangin'
02-07-2004, 06:29 PM
I'll throw my 2 cents in...
Originally posted by WHIPPED502
1. Would it help to box them in from behind?
2. Would it be worth upgrading speaker and to what?
I think you'll find that if you upgrade to the Infinity Kappas and ditch the 75 watts of Audiobahn for 100 watts per speaker of a higher quality amp, you'll be impressed.
Those speakers are not made for boxes, so you might be spinning your wheels to box them.
Originally posted by WHIPPED502
I like the subs in that they are marine and had a sturdy plastic grill. I listen to rock and alternative most of the time and I like the bass to fill and not overpower everything. I like a crisp bass not booming. I think I am going with the billet covers and don't neccesarily need the marine subs.
1.What subs and should I add 2 more?
2. Should I box them or keep them free air?
I would box them if you can. In the pedestal, instead of true "free air"...they may be in a very loose, very wrong-sized enclosure.
Two high-quality subs (in boxes) will outperform 4 cheaper subs (in the wrong enclosure). I'd go with a minimum of 300 watts per sub.
Loud, "boomy" or "overpowering" bass come from a loose nut on the controls. If you build a huge bass system...the only way it gets overpowering is by turning it up.
Originally posted by WHIPPED502
I liked the Audiobahn 6 channel amp. It never heated up. I liked that it had dual fans and a meter to tell me how many volts was getting to it. I am thinking of getting another Audiobahn for my subs. I like that they have a remote bass control. The price I can get these amps at seems right. I had this amp for only one season. What is the long term reliability of these amps? Pro's and con's of these amps.
Although I do not have any personal experience with Audiobahn...the couple I've heard were not really hard-hitting. They have a reputation with the "bling bling" "fast and furious" (Riverdave) crowd, but I think that the retail prices may have something to do with it.
I'd ditch it for it a dedicated class D sub amp and a dedicated component amp (or two). This will keep the bass hits from distorting your components.
That's what I'd do...but I'm an idiot, so consider the source.

RUCAV
02-07-2004, 08:32 PM
HH
Since you seem to know what your talking about, (Or can BS your way around anything), would you please tell me what you think about this system.
Pioneer DEH P7500 head unit
4 pioneer TS-A6970R 6x9 3 way
2 pioneer TS-A1670R 6.5 2 ways
2 Clarion 600watt Dual vocie coil 10's
1 Clarion 400.4 marine amp
1 Clarion 200.2 Marine amp.
Thanks

WHIPPED502
02-07-2004, 08:39 PM
Thanks Havasu Hangin. Originally I was going to go with the Kappas, but I was talked out of them. I have been worried about the set up of the subs. Under the rear seats is a big area and were alot of stuff is stored so the acoustics are always changing. I do have room to box them. Thanks again from one idiot to another

Havasu Hangin'
02-08-2004, 08:05 AM
Originally posted by RUCAV
Since you seem to know what your talking about, (Or can BS your way around anything),
RUCAV- It's more like I can BS my way around anything. Oh wait...since you caught me, I'll change that to "I can BS my way around most things...
Originally posted by RUCAV
would you please tell me what you think about this system.
Pioneer DEH P7500 head unit
4 pioneer TS-A6970R 6x9 3 way
2 pioneer TS-A1670R 6.5 2 ways
2 Clarion 600watt Dual vocie coil 10's
1 Clarion 400.4 marine amp
1 Clarion 200.2 Marine amp.
Actually, I more of an install guy...Roz is more hip on the equipment than I am.
Having said that, I will say that a friend of mine has those Pioneer components in his boat (not sure if they are the exact models), and they are really loud- he is driving them with Fosgate amps. Those things like alot of power...
Here's my personal opinion on marine audio...they are made for the salt water guys who leave their boat in the ocean.
If you just boat at the river (or most lakes) you shouldn't need it. Marine gear is supposedly more corrosion-resistant...if you boat at the river, your boat should never be wet for very long. If you're putting your boat away wet (with the cover on), you have bigger problems that the electronics corroding (like the interior rotting).
Which brings me to my second personal opinion on marine audio- the extra money spent on marine stuff can be used to upgrade to better car audio stuff.
I have never heard those Clarion subs...so I can't comment on how loud they are. Are they the marine ones? Which amp are you planning on driving them with?
So depending on the sub install, if you are giving those components 100 watts RMS each, my guess is that system will be loud, but lacking hard-hitting bass.
Once again...I am an idiot...so please consider the source.
Originally posted by WHIPPED502
I was going to go with the Kappas, but I was talked out of them. I have been worried about the set up of the subs. Under the rear seats is a big area and were alot of stuff is stored so the acoustics are always changing. I do have room to box them.
I hear ya...Riverlazy has the Kappas in his boat...that thing rocks. I think he just bumped them up to 150 watts RMS each...or something crazy like that. I personally think the Kappas sound much better than the Reference series.
Good luck on the pedestal- I think you will be VERY HAPPY with the right subs in right boxes.

rivercrazy
02-08-2004, 01:54 PM
I've heard the references, Kappa's, and Kappa perfects.
There really isnt any comparison between the References and Kappa's. They are a totally different speaker in every way. The Kappas will blow the references out of the water both on midbass and tweet volume and clarity.
I've been running a set of 6.5 Kappa perfect comps and a couple of pairs of Kappa 693.5i 6X9's. IMO they are all great speakers. I've been giving the 6X9's 90 watts each and the 6.5's about 125 each or so (best guess)
I also really like the JBL GTi6.5 comps but require a little more power than the Perfects. But they can easily take 150RMS each without breaking a sweat and IMO sound as good or better than Focals, MBQ's and the like.
Good luck with your choice and keep us updated.

SUPERCREWJOHN
02-08-2004, 06:54 PM
Originally posted by rivercrazy
I've heard the references, Kappa's, and Kappa perfects.
There really isnt any comparison between the References and Kappa's. They are a totally different speaker in every way. The Kappas will blow the references out of the water both on midbass and tweet volume and clarity.
I've been running a set of 6.5 Kappa perfect comps and a couple of pairs of Kappa 693.5i 6X9's. IMO they are all great speakers. I've been giving the 6X9's 90 watts each and the 6.5's about 125 each or so (best guess)
I also really like the JBL GTi6.5 comps but require a little more power than the Perfects. But they can easily take 150RMS each without breaking a sweat and IMO sound as good or better than Focals, MBQ's and the like.
Good luck with your choice and keep us updated.
rc - Did you use the Marine Kappa's or the regular Auto mobile rated ones? I have been occilating between the Kappa's or MB Quarts Marine .. Any thoughts on that? I am going to be using JL amps and JL subs 10v6v2 with a JL500 class D.

RUCAV
02-08-2004, 07:10 PM
HH
Thanks for the advice. As for the Clarion subs, there is a custom car shop in Los Alamitos that has a bunch of show cars and many of them have the clarion 10's in them. Im not sure if they are the same model but the owner of the shop said those cars have all won stereo competitions. Do you do installs professionally and if so, where? You can PM me the info if you dont want everyone to know but it might be good for business.
Thanks alot
RUCAV

rivercrazy
02-08-2004, 08:09 PM
Hey John. Hows the new boat coming along? Hope everything is going great.
I had the Infinity Kappa Marine 6X9's in my prior boat. They sound great. But I went with the non-marine ones this time around. So far they are handling the lake and ocean trip runs just fine. To me the only nicer thing about the marine Kappas is the one peice molded plastic contruction. They match white vinyl really well. The automotive speaker grills are little on the light side and dent fairly easily. But custom covers are available (I'm still running the infinity supplied grills with no drama)
Sounds like your planning on really nice system! No W7's? hehe

Havasu Hangin'
02-08-2004, 08:52 PM
Originally posted by RUCAV
HH
Thanks for the advice. As for the Clarion subs, there is a custom car shop in Los Alamitos that has a bunch of show cars and many of them have the clarion 10's in them. Im not sure if they are the same model but the owner of the shop said those cars have all won stereo competitions. Do you do installs professionally and if so, where? You can PM me the info if you dont want everyone to know but it might be good for business.
Thanks alot
RUCAV
Hey partner...I used to install (did a couple SPL cars...nothing like the guys today, though)...but I've been out of the business for a looong time.
These days, I'm reduced to working on my own stuff, helping my cheap-ass friends, and BS'ing people on the boards into thinking I actually know what I am talking about.
That'll be our little secret.
The thing to remember about shops is that they all will try to sell you what fits their needs...not necessarily yours. Kinda like how you'll never find a Chevy dealer recommending Fords.
Here's a good example- let's pretend there's a shop who is a "Fosbate" dealer. Now...he wants to sell you a system with a "Fosbate BD1000/1" amp. He's probably not going to tell you that you could go online an purchase a "JDL 1200.1" amp for a couple hundred bucks cheaper, that runs cooler, and has about 300 more watts.
He's gonna sell you what he makes money on.
As for the Clarions...I really don't know anyone using them. Try to hear a boat system with them in...what sounds good in a car, suddenly doesn't in a boat (no accoustics).

rivercrazy
02-08-2004, 09:42 PM
Originally posted by Havasu Hangin'
helping my cheap-ass friends
Hey! Watch your tongue cause I resemble that remark!! :D

ROZ
02-09-2004, 08:49 AM
Originally posted by rivercrazy
Hey! Watch your tongue cause I resemble that remark!! :D
I hear you're not the only one....Does Joe the amp you sold him installed yet? :D
HH is right on regarding the gear. We call it SWISS, or Sell What's In Stock Stuipd..... A lot of guys don't want you spending money at the competition if they think it has what you need/want, so they give props to the next best thing they stock in order to make the deal. Someone who wants to take care of you will special order what you want if he has access to it....

WHIPPED502
02-12-2004, 09:14 PM
Rivercrazy was there a sound difference between the marine and auto Kappas? I found some marine Kappas online for about $110.00 a pair. A friend has some new 10" Polk Momos he is willing to give up for about $100.00 a pair. Does any one know how they sound? They are rated at 500/1000 watts. Will the JBL 600.1 be enough to run them or should I use the 1200.1? The price for the 1200.1 is about $290.00. If I don't use the 6 channel Audiobahn can I power 3 sets of speakers with a 4 channel amp? Should I get 2-4 channel amps and power the subs and 6x9's on one and the 6.5 on another? If so what amps could I use that are reasonably priced?
Like it has been mentioned before, the guys at the stereo shops don't know crap about boats systems and want to sell you what they have because it is the best and the stuff they used to carry that was the best is now junk. Once again thanks for the help.
John

rivercrazy
02-12-2004, 10:03 PM
Tough call. Both 6X9's sound great but I would give the nod to the car 693.5i's. Better power handling and I really like the Emit-R tweeter in the car set. The marine set has a silk dome tweet that sounds great and is a little smoother but not as loud. The car set I'm referring to has a tweet and super tweet and comes with a seperate passive crossover. The marine set just has a cap soldered to the speaker as a crossover.
As for the subs, I've never heard those before but 500 watt RMS power rating is pretty good. Are they 4 ohm single voice coil? Dual voice coil? If they are single voice coil you could wire two subs in parallel for a 2 ohm load and the JBL 600 would put out 650-700 watts (or about 325 each or so). If you have dual voice coil subs you could wire it for a 1 ohm load and that amp is stable at that rating. But it wont put out any more power at 2 versus 1 ohm. I'd probably go with the 1200 cause it will give you more wiring options, it has more power, etc.
Assuming the 6 channel amp is full range on all 6 channels, you could wire 6 speakers to it. I wouldnt really recommend wiring 6 speakers to a 4 channel amp. You could wire two to two channels but then would have to wire 4 in a series wired configuration. That presents an unequal load to the amp and gives the 4 wired to two channels 1/2 the power. Ask HH and Roz though, I could be wrong here.
I would probably go with 2 component amps. A high powered 4 channel for 4 speakers and a 2 channel amp for the other 2. -OR- go with two 2-channel amps that are 2 ohm stable. Then you could effectively run up to 8 speakers wired in a parallel configuration. If you go that route, you might plan for some amplifer fans cause it will run warmer at 2 ohms.
But there are many ways to skin a cat. Keep asking for recommendations.

ROZ
02-13-2004, 09:08 AM
Originally posted by rivercrazy
But there are many ways to skin a cat. Keep asking for recommendations.
I think you meant that there's more than one way to kill a fish ;)

rivercrazy
02-13-2004, 09:27 AM
:D :D :D

payloan
03-07-2004, 10:04 PM
Just my .02 I'm working with a guy here in Brea "Advantage Audio & Alarm" the guys name is Jamie he relly knows his stuff , I think, (cause quite frankly I dont ) but anyhow I'm a Crossfire guy myself cannot beat the bang for the buck. Jamie is all about good quality without overkill I'm taking her over to him on tuesday to pick up where we left off (last year) In all the system will consist of, 1 600watt sub D amp (note this is all crossfire)
2 12" D3 subs
12 6.5" (marine by crossfire)
1 4x600 watt amp
1 4x400 watt amp
2 Odyssy baterries to add to my existing 2 deep cycles
Per Jamie he recommended 6.5" over 6x9's for the reason as we all know it "open air environment" your really not gonna get that little bit of base that comes with the 6x9's so you might as well get all the pure sound out of the 6.5". The subs will obviously be tucked up underneath the dash angled down at about a 45 degree angle to bounce off the floor, creating a better sounding base. Everything custom and through bolted (thug proof) so I think. By the way I'm still open for some advice afterall her date is not until tuesday, so any would be appreciated and comfort of knowing that this guy does know his stuff or maybe change my mind. It 's not over till the holes are cut. By the way is'nt this Timmys Thread

ROZ
03-09-2004, 12:26 AM
Originally posted by payloan
Everything custom and through bolted (thug proof) so I think. By the way I'm still open for some advice afterall her date is not until tuesday, so any would be appreciated and comfort of knowing that this guy does know his stuff or maybe change my mind. It 's not over till the holes are cut.
No "so I think"s... You need the heavey items through bolted or they WILL fall. Also make sure he uses stainless hardware...
Sounds like you have a good system ready to install. My only suggestion is that you take a good listen to their "marine grade" speakers before you have them installed... There are only a handfull of MFG's that make a marine grade speaker that both sounds and performs well. If there is a set of quality car speakers you like better, don't be afraid to use them...Just make sure they use a poly cone and have a rubber surround.. Grills and trim can be painted to match the boat or it's interior...
Good luck, and post before and after pictures!
Chris

hd&boatrider
03-09-2004, 04:50 AM
I think all of us need to pitch in and put Roz on some kind of retainer basis :).