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steve singhal
02-09-2004, 04:41 PM
The purpose of this thread is to let all Commander Boat owners know that I am personally dedicated to take care of Commander customers. Customer satisfaction is Commander Boats' top priority. This thread specifically address the issues why some boaters are making statements to the contrary.
Steve also addressed this issue on 02/07/04 at 12:07am, time appearing on the thread, "So is CommanderFan still on here?" He gave 4 reasons for the negative customer sentiments. I fully endorse them. I must elaborate more on reason No. (3). It is a fact that since our boats are priced very competitively, it does not mean that they are not built to be the BEST quality. Here are some supporting facts:
1. Because of our tireless scrutiny of rigging and details, the Commander quality is constanttly improving. The boats built today are better than those built previously. The proof is the
overwhelming PUBLIC response in the recently concluded L.A. Show.
2. An ex-commander owner, Ken of Wizzard Billet Engineering, who purchased a 100 mph DCB in 1997, before Commander came out with a CAT, is a strong beliver in our quality. He states that as an outside observer for many years, he can say that Commander prices are better because of my business-like approach. (I acquired the company 16 years ago to run it as a successful usiness and not a hobby) Ken is willing to share his belief with anyone who would like him to do so.
3. On the aforementioned web-thread, "bigg" stated, "As far as resale, I was able to sell both (boats) for what I paid for them," His second boat was 2000-24 Signature on which he got a good discount, being one of the first ONES to buy this boat model.
4. Good resale is a proof of good value. It is supported by the least number of used Commanders on sale in the Boat Trader, considering the number of boats we retail each year.
Yes, our customers have some issues with the service, but we are working on making improvements within the industry restraints pointed out by Steve in his thread. However, we can honestly say that with the ongoing improvements, our service department is better today hen before. The following paragraphs address specific service issues.
A. Commandergirl: To supplement what Steve has already addressed, it is unfair for her to call me a liar when I never lie to the customers. Even our worst critic "THATGUYJEFF" has stated, "Sy is actually a pretty honest guy." This is true. There has been a great deal of confusion due to the contacts made by her, her boyfriend and boyfriends' mother with us and Mercruiser. Especially, since the feed back she received from Mercruiser people was quite different from what we had actually done. It was due to our efforts, that their tech rep will be here on Tuesday and will stay here until her problems are resolved. May be he can talk to her and make her understand that I did not mislead her. Although, I was unable to say anything to pacify her until the latest Mercruiser development of assignment of their rep to solve this problem.
B. THATJEFFGUY: We recognize that he had issues with our service. Apparently, we were unable to make him happy. But, I can say with clear conscience that we made diligent efforts to take care of him. The last time his boat was here and he was not satisfied with the work done, we promised him to complete the work as needed and to bring his boat back to his residence, before he would commence his river trip (a few days later). We did keep our promise. Furthermore, eventhough it is the standard policy to have custoemrs remove their personnel belongings, from the boats left here for service, we fully reimburrsed Jeff for the items he reported missing from his boat. We are genuinely concerned about the problems he has had and we are willing to take care of him: including the boat-performance. It is surprissing that he has serious performance issues, especially since the performance of his boat model is outstanding. We would like to win him back.
If any Commander customer has problems, I can be reached directly. And yes, I am only a phone call away.

BoatFloating
02-09-2004, 04:48 PM
Steve also addressed this issue on 02/07/04 at 12:07am
According to the log on your Steve. You must be Sy then? Well hold on this should be good.;)

sy singhal
02-09-2004, 04:52 PM
Originally posted by steve singhal
The purpose of this thread is to let all Commander Boat owners know that I am personally dedicated to take care of Commander customers. Customer satisfaction is Commander Boats' top priority. This thread specifically address the issues why some boaters are making statements to the contrary.
Steve also addressed this issue on 02/07/04 at 12:07am, time appearing on the thread, "So is CommanderFan still on here?" He gave 4 reasons for the negative customer sentiments. I fully endorse them. I must elaborate more on reason No. (3). It is a fact that since our boats are priced very competitively, it does not mean that they are not built to be the BEST quality. Here are some supporting facts:
1. Because of our tireless scrutiny of rigging and details, the Commander quality is constanttly improving. The boats built today are better than those built previously. The proof is the
overwhelming PUBLIC response in the recently concluded L.A. Show.
2. An ex-commander owner, Ken of Wizzard Billet Engineering, who purchased a 100 mph DCB in 1997, before Commander came out with a CAT, is a strong beliver in our quality. He states that as an outside observer for many years, he can say that Commander prices are better because of my business-like approach. (I acquired the company 16 years ago to run it as a successful usiness and not a hobby) Ken is willing to share his belief with anyone who would like him to do so.
3. On the aforementioned web-thread, "bigg" stated, "As far as resale, I was able to sell both (boats) for what I paid for them," His second boat was 2000-24 Signature on which he got a good discount, being one of the first ONES to buy this boat model.
4. Good resale is a proof of good value. It is supported by the least number of used Commanders on sale in the Boat Trader, considering the number of boats we retail each year.
Yes, our customers have some issues with the service, but we are working on making improvements within the industry restraints pointed out by Steve in his thread. However, we can honestly say that with the ongoing improvements, our service department is better today hen before. The following paragraphs address specific service issues.
A. Commandergirl: To supplement what Steve has already addressed, it is unfair for her to call me a liar when I never lie to the customers. Even our worst critic "THATGUYJEFF" has stated, "Sy is actually a pretty honest guy." This is true. There has been a great deal of confusion due to the contacts made by her, her boyfriend and boyfriends' mother with us and Mercruiser. Especially, since the feed back she received from Mercruiser people was quite different from what we had actually done. It was due to our efforts, that their tech rep will be here on Tuesday and will stay here until her problems are resolved. May be he can talk to her and make her understand that I did not mislead her. Although, I was unable to say anything to pacify her until the latest Mercruiser development of assignment of their rep to solve this problem.
B. THATJEFFGUY: We recognize that he had issues with our service. Apparently, we were unable to make him happy. But, I can say with clear conscience that we made diligent efforts to take care of him. The last time his boat was here and he was not satisfied with the work done, we promised him to complete the work as needed and to bring his boat back to his residence, before he would commence his river trip (a few days later). We did keep our promise. Furthermore, eventhough it is the standard policy to have custoemrs remove their personnel belongings, from the boats left here for service, we fully reimburrsed Jeff for the items he reported missing from his boat. We are genuinely concerned about the problems he has had and we are willing to take care of him: including the boat-performance. It is surprissing that he has serious performance issues, especially since the performance of his boat model is outstanding. We would like to win him back.
If any Commander customer has problems, I can be reached directly. And yes, I am only a phone call away.

Tom Brown
02-09-2004, 04:56 PM
What's your phone number, Steve, Sy, or whoever is representing Commander on this? :)

sy singhal
02-09-2004, 04:57 PM
Originally posted by BoatFloating
According to the log on your Steve. You must be Sy then? Well hold on this should be good.;)
The thread, "Commander Prospective" was erroneously posted in the name Steve Singhal. This was a clerical error. I'am the aurthor of that thread. I apologize for the above confussion.
As stated in the aforementioned thread, "If any Commander customer has problems, I can be reached directly. And yes, I'am only a phone call a way."

Ziggy
02-09-2004, 05:43 PM
909-657-6917 for their shop where Sy is.
.
Sy and Steve,
If nothing else with the heated discussions recently I think it's a great thing that you spent the time to come in and address the issues...I hope you take the time to mingle with some of these people from time to time too because from what I have experienced 99.9% of them are all good people and hearing from you directly would improve your relationship and outlook with many. They're all boat enthusiasts and if you can show them your product is comparable with others I think many will put your brand back on the shopping list and at least give you the oppertunity.
Incidently, I had a discussion with another custom builder and he felt very badly because Commander(as well as other brands/equipment) gets alot of "unwarranted bad raps" on this website. We all know that bad news travels fast so this sort of forum atmosphere breeds bashing. He is a well liked builder around here and says you build a great boat and are straight forward kinda person, I could tell he meant it too.
Thought I'd throw that out there being it came from a direct competitor.

mbrown2
02-09-2004, 05:48 PM
Welcome to the boards Sy, I respect for coming on here and telling your side...
Hopefully any issues will get addressed...I have a neighbor at the river with a Commander and he loves it....thinks of trading in for new for the exact thing Ziggy mentioned...he would lose not much getting out of it and into the next one..

OGShocker
02-09-2004, 05:56 PM
Who's popping the popcorn? Extra butter please....
I have NO dog in this hunt, I just love the forums...:D

Jbb
02-09-2004, 06:01 PM
Welcome Sy....I think your boats have value.....Repeat after me...RD Sux..........:D

MRS FLYIN VEE
02-09-2004, 06:03 PM
whats a commander look like..:D ;)

hot_diggity_dog
02-09-2004, 06:03 PM
What can I say I own a CHEETAH!!!:eek!: :eek!: :eek!: :eek!: :eek!: ;) :D
I'm sure glad Cheetah Bob just sits in the background.
Hot (knew what I was getting into) Diggity Dog:D

Ziggy
02-09-2004, 06:06 PM
Originally posted by hot_diggity_dog
What can I say I own a CHEETAH!!!:eek!: :eek!: :eek!: :eek!: :eek!: ;) :D
I'm sure glad Cheetah Bob just sits in the background.
Hot (knew what I was getting into) Diggity Dog:D
Look at RD's other thread(is Commanderfan still here) and I made the mistake of bringing Cheetah up...well it wasn't a mistake but more like an honorable mention:D
.
did rrl go kaboom today?-can't get on now?

THATJEFFGUY
02-09-2004, 06:18 PM
Because I've had so many problems with Commander Boats in the past, I haven't decided to call Sy directly and put my trust back in them just yet. However, I think we should ALL commend Sy for taking the time away from his business to address the recent issues on this board...even after his son Steve had already cleared up some of the confusion. I think you'll agree, it's not often you see an owner come online to speak to their customers, or offer to take care of their customers' problems personally. Thanks again Sy...and Steve !

silver surfer
02-09-2004, 06:19 PM
We have 100 hours on our Commander Millennium and love the boat. It has been handling great, engine sound, and rigging fine. We have had a few issues with customer service but Sy corrected any problems. As Ziggy commented, the problem is communication between his staff and customers. As a matter of fact, Sy did not have time to personally repair a problem within my time schedule, so he reimbursed me when I had another shop correct the problem. Pretty damn good customer service on this issue.
As for resale, two of my friends sold their Commanders after seven to nine years of use, for close to what they paid for them new. No Bullshit.
As for getting what I paid for, I guess everyone is right. My Commander towed my friends 24 Hallett, across Boulder Basin, in four-five foot chop. Not a drop of water came over the bow to spoil my silver bullet. He was sure appreciative of my Commander that weekend. So much so, he and his family skiied and partied in in my boat for three more days.
Yep. I got exactly what I paid for-a reliable boat!

clownpuncher
02-09-2004, 06:25 PM
Originally posted by silver surfer
No Bullshit.
Ahh I'm callin bullshit. :p :D :p
Just kidding, couldn't resist. Carry on now.

Ziggy
02-09-2004, 06:41 PM
Originally posted by RiverDave
Ah C'mon Brian I didn't say anything "bad" necesarrily about Commander. I just don't understand why their priced at a value boat when their the best? Well with the exception of their deckboat.. that thing is priced pretty outrageously.. 75K with a 496?? You'd almost think it was a conquest or something for that kinda coin.
RD
Dave,
I'd intrepret Sy's comment of "Best" as a scale...you know: poor,fair,good better,best. He didn't say his is best in the market but his "best" quality referring to not shortcutting build quality of the boats.
Also-I mentioned it in your other thread, resale of my 10 yr old commander was $840 less than I paid new including paying a commission. Less than $3 for each hour of running useage including maintainence costs over the 10 yrs.

bigq
02-09-2004, 06:54 PM
Funny thought, little ol' Sy kicking RD in the junk. If you have seen SY picture that in your head.:D
Hot Diggity, I love the Cheetahs.:D

bigkatboat
02-09-2004, 06:55 PM
River Dave, what "industry leaders" are you talking about? The over priced boat builder that 'insults' new owners with problems and tells them to go back to their dealer? Or are you talking about the builder that has major problems with new designs and continues to take orders for that boat design? Merc. has GREAT PRIDE (oem prices) in their products, but boat prices (in my humble opinion) are out of control! Way back in the 70's and 80's a "billit hardware" rigging job was the 'norm'. Now all the BS is "billit BS" and the boats are not running any better than they did back then. YES boats are faster! But the motors are WAY bigger and the price tags are too! Write-ups in the magazines, and all of the "hype" seems to be overshadowing the actual product. Does the boat do what you want it to do? Was the salesman truthful about the boat's performance? Are there 'pieces' falling off of the boat? Can you RELY on it for your families safety and EVERYONES pleasure? It seems to me that many people buy boats today to impress others, and at home (in their own 'quiet space') they know that they paid too much for the PLEASURE they have gotten out of the boat. I'm not saying that all boat builders are "overpriced", I'm saying, "look at what the real product is"! Not the 'big shot BS name'. Are you 'over' paying for all of this BS? I'm not! If most boats have about the same "halflife" (use vs. useability) , and they use the same power, why are some better? ($$$) SERVICE???

OGShocker
02-09-2004, 07:25 PM
Anyone HAVE cheese powder?
Did I MENTION how MUCH I love THE forums?

SHAKE-YO-AZZ
02-09-2004, 07:55 PM
This is getting old, there's got to something better, I know how about Janets Tits :D :D :D

bordsmnj
02-09-2004, 08:38 PM
i didn't THINK very muchOF her TIT.:D
just kidding (actually not) soda anyone?:rolleyes:

SHAKE-YO-AZZ
02-09-2004, 08:47 PM
I

MudPumper
02-09-2004, 08:54 PM
I'm watching Blazing Saddles. Talk about a good movie. Now somebody go back and get a shitload of dimes!!!!!!!!!!!

hd&boatrider
02-09-2004, 11:48 PM
I don't know what the hell has happened while I was going for the past week with no internet but I have to jump in here:
1) I have a Commander 99 23LX, 454 Mag, apx 400 hours and have never had any major problems. I had to have some initial adjustments done on the swim step.
2) I don't take my boat to Commander anymore for service simply because it is not convinient for me and they are lacking in certain quality control issues. I believe Sy when he says they are working to improve service. I base it on what I know and he has never lied to me. They make probably 95% of thier money in making boats so that is where they have put the efforts into.
3) I was looking into buying a new boat a few months ago and decided against it because it did not make sense for me when it came down to it. I will tell you this....I was going to get the same amount of money on trade in as I paid for it. This was from a competitor of Commander. I looked at Commander, Magic and Conquest....Just an FYI
4) I get compliments on my boat all the time. I do not have the Commander logo and people come up to me to inquire about who made my boat. They look at the boat and not the name. They are just curious and some are quite surprised.
5) I have talked to Steve a few times and Sy many times. I have always been treated fairly and honestly. For me personally I do not have any problem at all with saying they are honest. hard working people with no intention of screwing anybody. Shit happens some time but I feel very comfotable that if something would go sideways with my boat and I needed Commander Sy would help me out. He has no warranty/maintenance committments to me except for the hull. I may be wrong about the hull but it is not an issue anyhow.
6) RD has been on my boat as well as others that post here. They know that my boat has held up under sometimes, shall we say...intense pressure...lol and still looks and rides excellant. By the way...give me a boat that weighs the same as mine, with the same setup (engine) and 9 times out of 10 I am going to smoke the other boat.
7) I do not know what all the problems as far as the owner/boat that got this all started but I will take a look at all the threads and post if I have anything to add to it. All I can say at this point is that I believe Sy will do the right thing to try to satisfy the boat owner.
8) Sy needs to be commended for coming on here and addressing this thread himself. If he didn't care he would not have taken the time to post anything.
That's my take for what it's worth. If anybody wants to talk off-line about Commander email me with your phone number to twint64235@aol.com and I will be happy to talk with you about my experience and Commander.
Tom

Freak
02-10-2004, 04:25 AM
Originally posted by SHAKE-YO-AZZ
This is getting old, there's got to something better, I know how about Janets Tits :D :D :D
The guy who writes for the NY Times did not think much of it - nor did I. His review basically said it was an average middle age breast. I agree. LOL.

Jungle Boy
02-10-2004, 05:51 AM
It hard to please some people no matter was the builder does. Sometimes it's just plain impossible. It's a lot easier for a pist off customer to publicly shoot down the builder and call him a cocksucker and a liar, but the builder can't do the same. They must maintain the high road for public perception. I'm good freinds with guys that build Eagle boats and I hear both sides of the story from this one guy. 99% of his BS is unfounded. He is never happy and is looking for something that ain't there. I'm sure Commander does what it can to support their product and customers. It's in their best interest as it is how they feed their families.

Essex502
02-10-2004, 07:15 AM
You can please all of the people - some of the time or some of the people all of the time, but never all of the people all of the time. I will second the many response that congratulate the owners of Commander coming here and openly responding. That's what this forum is all about.

coolchange
02-10-2004, 07:52 AM
I especially liked the part where they show up with a boat full of vests and ropes and skis and cans etc. Kind of sets the tone for the whole job right off the bat.:rolleyes:

SHAKE-YO-AZZ
02-10-2004, 08:36 AM
Originally posted by Freak
The guy who writes for the NY Times did not think much of it - nor did I. His review basically said it was an average middle age breast. I agree. LOL.
An average middle age rich tit :D

SHAKE-YO-AZZ
02-10-2004, 08:40 AM
Originally posted by coolchange
I especially liked the part where they show up with a boat full of vests and ropes and skis and cans etc. Kind of sets the tone for the whole job right off the bat.:rolleyes:
when i take my car to the shop, i'm always take out all my personal stuff, the boat is no different

Sandbar Mike
02-10-2004, 08:49 AM
I appologize Steve and Sy for a bit of my bad mouthing of your company.
It sounds like you guy are really concentrating on customer support which is deperatley needed.
When people come on this site and ask what we know about Commander boats and it just so happens that a good friend of mine got pretty screwed by you guys, what can I/we say, that it's a good boat go buy one, Hell no. I know you can't blame us.
I wont go into the full details of the situation between my friend and you guys as much as I want to. All I can say is my $36k 23' Cheetah was one hell of a GOOD TOW BOAT, for your $70K 26' Commander throughout the 2002 summer season. (after he paid you 12K to fix your problems)
Keep up the concentration of customer support, you guys are really turning this thing around.
All you satisfied Commander owners, I'm happy for you, and I'll bet you probably have some nice boats, it's unfortunite that a few of my friends didn't have as much luck.
:D :D :D

MRS FLYIN VEE
02-10-2004, 09:07 AM
I just have a few questions..
Why did it take this thread for the people at commander to get anything done.. is it because of the word of mouth that they are being bashed by certain owners?
Why are they just now trying to take care of their screw up with these owners?
If they wanted to please their customers it shouldn't of taken this to do it.. It should of been done in the first place..
just my 2 cents. with a couple questions that still have not been answered through this hole thread..
;)

SHAKE-YO-AZZ
02-10-2004, 09:19 AM
Originally posted by Sandbar Mike
I appologize Steve and Sy for a bit of my bad mouthing of your company.
It sounds like you guy are really concentrating on customer support which is deperatley needed.
When people come on this site and ask what we know about Commander boats and it just so happens that a good friend of mine got pretty screwed by you guys, what can I/we say, that it's a good boat go buy one, Hell no. I know you can't blame us.
I wont go into the full details of the situation between my friend and you guys as much as I want to. All I can say is my $36k 23' Cheetah was one hell of a GOOD TOW BOAT, for your $70K 26' Commander throughout the 2002 summer season. (after he paid you 12K to fix your problems)
Keep up the concentration of customer support, you guys are really turning this thing around.
All you satisfied Commander owners, I'm happy for you, and I'll bet you probably have some nice boats, it's unfortunite that a few of my friends didn't have as much luck.
:D :D :D
did have to tow because of hull problems or engine problems ????

Sandbar Mike
02-10-2004, 09:57 AM
Originally posted by SHAKE-YO-AZZ
did have to tow because of hull problems or engine problems ????
Engine installation problem, resulting in a hull problem which almost caused the boat to go down with 10 people in it.
Let me know if your interested in the full story, when I get a half hour of free time I'll post it. I know Sy probably wont like it.

Wicky
02-10-2004, 10:04 AM
Originally posted by MRS FLYIN VEE
whats a commander look like..:D ;)
Here ya go!!

MRS FLYIN VEE
02-10-2004, 10:09 AM
LMAO!! very funny.. maybe this is why they can't take care of the customers.. their arms are folded and say.. It's not in my job description.. :D :D :D

bigq
02-10-2004, 10:28 AM
Originally posted by MRS FLYIN VEE
I just have a few questions..
Why did it take this thread for the people at commander to get anything done.. is it because of the word of mouth that they are being bashed by certain owners?
Why are they just now trying to take care of their screw up with these owners?
If they wanted to please their customers it shouldn't of taken this to do it.. It should of been done in the first place..
just my 2 cents. with a couple questions that still have not been answered through this hole thread..
;)
I don't think they are just now trying to take care of there customers, I got the impression they were all in the works of being taken care of or at least talking with the customer to get it taken care of. He obviously felt the need to come on and tell his side of the story, I doubt he thought that since people are going ***boat.com and bashing him that maybe he should start fixing stuff. All manufactures have problems as stated many times, even DCB has had unhappy customers.;)

MRS FLYIN VEE
02-10-2004, 10:38 AM
Originally posted by bigq
I don't think they are just now trying to take care of there customers, I got the impression they were all in the works of being taken care of or at least talking with the customer to get it taken care of. He obviously felt the need to come on and tell his side of the story, I doubt he thought that since people are going ***boat.com and bashing him that maybe he should start fixing stuff. All manufactures have problems as stated many times, even DCB has had unhappy customers.;)
I hear what you are saying.. But from what I got from posts here.. there are alot more unhappy customers the there are happy ones.. and you are probably right about some unhappy customers at DCB but the customer to them is family and they are taken care of right away. and they or I should say most are happy with the out come.. they are not bashed because they hold their word. and take care of the problem. wether you have the smallest boat, a bigger boat or just thinking about the boat.. ;) :D

PlyaPlya22
02-10-2004, 10:44 AM
Originally posted by MRS FLYIN VEE
I just have a few questions..
Why did it take this thread for the people at commander to get anything done.. is it because of the word of mouth that they are being bashed by certain owners?
Why are they just now trying to take care of their screw up with these owners?
If they wanted to please their customers it shouldn't of taken this to do it.. It should of been done in the first place..
just my 2 cents. with a couple questions that still have not been answered through this hole thread..
;)
Better late, than never...:D

MRS FLYIN VEE
02-10-2004, 10:46 AM
so what are the answers.. LOL!! :D

PlyaPlya22
02-10-2004, 10:56 AM
Originally posted by MRS FLYIN VEE
so what are the answers.. LOL!! :D
Stepping up to the plate is step one. Now remember Rome was not built in a day...:cool:

MRS FLYIN VEE
02-10-2004, 10:57 AM
LOL!! :D I do give them credit for that.. :cool:

Ziggy
02-10-2004, 11:34 AM
Originally posted by RiverDave
BigKatBoat, simply put... (Being P.C.) I disagree..
You keep asking what makes them the best? To put it plain n simple... Reputation would be the word that I choose.
The reason why I'd choose "reputation" is becuase a reputation doesn't come out of thin air.. It is developed over time, and isn't something that advertising dollars can buy, It isn't something that can be swayed one way or the other by the mfg, it for lack of a better saying "Is what it is, becuase the boats speak for themselves."
If your wondering what seperates the industry leaders from the avg or lower line builders... Go throw some real HP in one and find out for yourself.. LOL
RD
And your "pick of the boat show" was: Hawian??? for its reputation??? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: No offence Dave but your talking in circles. You said it before, a boat is a boat, right? The reputation part has more to do with how you/they can deal with issues during and after a purchase. Otherwise so many boats are comparable and personal likes, tastes come into effect on choosing the brand one will want to purchase.
Industry Leaders are the brands that sell most, maybe because of designs or looks, features etc....or maybe because they have good/agressive sales forces, or maybe cuz they have a big shiney showroom where I was ignored(oops, did I say "I":D ) or a host of other factors.
I do agree with your saying that Sy is probably leaving money on the table by not charging more for his boats, if he did that then maybe he could afford to handle the odd situation with a little more expediency and people might have more pride of ownership.
You are also right about how reputation is built, it can't be bought, well not directly at least......and I think Sy gained some by coming in here and putting up his posts.

Ziggy
02-10-2004, 01:16 PM
Originally posted by RiverDave
Ziggy, Ziggy, Ziggy, Ziggy..... ;)
Actually No Ziggy.. My "pick" of the boatshow was the hawaiian deckboat for it's layout.. I mentioned there shitty reputation (quality as well) in that very post right after that. For me to build that boat, Hawaiian really wouldn't be doing much other then letting a crew of subcontractors use the mold, and or supervise those jackasses while their doing it. As far as putting HP to that boat, bottom of it is a 28 Warlock (proven bottom) so it shouldn't be an issue so long as they splashed it half ass well.
No your reading it in circles.. I wrote it pretty straight. ;) (I'll get into that in a second with the Sy leaving money on the table part)
Actually to be perfectly honest I believe it really doesn't have much to do with "minor" issues.. Many of the "industry leaders" are actually hard to deal with in some respects.. Others will take care of you like they owe ya something.. It has more to do with actual "performance" and or in most cases "scalable performance" (As an example get a Merc dealio and whipple it later.. contrary to popular belief you can't do that on every hull becuase of stability issues)
Once again I gotta go with the contrary... Most of the people that I'd consider "industry leaders" build far fewer boats then the "norm" or "average" boat builders..
I didn't say Sy was leaving money on the table.. I said if his boats were the best at a cheaper price then he would be leaving money on the table.. I don't believe they are "the best" and therefore not worth more then what he's currently charging.
I'd agree with that 100%... Up until 2 days ago I really had no interest in Commander boats on any level.. Now I am interested and if Sy holds true to his word on everything he wrote here, hell I'd even consider getting an "Entry Level" boat from him becuase when I buy my 1st new boat I'll on a pretty stringent budget.
RD
I understand your positions Dave--it makes sense.
Many others look at purchases with their back pockets too, thus the plethera of boat builders that fill each niche the best they can, we all knock Bayliner but it fills a need out there too.

OGShocker
02-10-2004, 01:21 PM
becuase when I buy my 1st new boat I'll on a pretty stringent budget.
RD
Ummmm? Hell, nevermind.

Ziggy
02-10-2004, 01:49 PM
Originally posted by RiverDave
Well I'll be on some sorta budget anyways... LOL
RD
Just not a Bayliner budget I hope;)

BADBLOWN572
02-10-2004, 03:49 PM
Originally posted by steve singhal
1. Because of our tireless scrutiny of rigging and details, the Commander quality is constanttly improving. The boats built today are better than those built previously. The proof is the
overwhelming PUBLIC response in the recently concluded L.A. Show.
Tireless scrutiny of rigging and details? When was the last time that you went under the dash of one of your boats and taken a look at the quality of the wiring? I can tell you from someone that was in the industry that it is CRAP! A bird's nest has more organization than the wires under the dash of the Commander boats. I had a friend who had a Commander and it was a decent looking boat from the outside until you got into the wiring and rigging. From there what a cluster ****! They used red and black wires for everything and there was no organization. We ended up taking out the wiring harness and re-building it to our standards. That way we could be sure that it was done right.
Originally posted by steve singhal
2. An ex-commander owner, Ken of Wizzard Billet Engineering, who purchased a 100 mph DCB in 1997, before Commander came out with a CAT, is a strong beliver in our quality. He states that as an outside observer for many years, he can say that Commander prices are better because of my business-like approach. (I acquired the company 16 years ago to run it as a successful usiness and not a hobby) Ken is willing to share his belief with anyone who would like him to do so.
As for your 100mph cat...what a joke. I drove and rode in the first one that was ever built with a big motor. I believe that it had either a 800 or 900SC engine with a #3 outdrive. I remember being out at Elsinore with my boat and seeing that boat out there. I went for a ride and the thing hit mid to high 90's. The owner said that the management of Commander gave their word that the boat would run over 100 all day long. The guy said that he had tapped 100 once and that was running out of lake. He said that he paid over 100k and said that for the money he paid he should have gotten a boat that was at least a 100mph boat.
I admit that it takes a lot of guts to jump into the fire here. Needless to say that Commander gets blasted freequently and for you to step up and admit that you have made some serious mistakes, I applaude you. However the word Commander and "best" should not be used in the same sentance. If Commander ever got their shit together, they would have a nice product, but in the current capacity, I would honestly look at Commander as a last resort. Take it for what it is worth, comming from a person who has been in or around the industry for 90% of their lives, something serious is lacking in both the quality and customer service over at Commander.

Catfever
02-10-2004, 05:58 PM
:) http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/522/25528sportcat1-med.jpg Hey, BaDBlown572 what did the boat look like you rode in? This one has a 5 drive and a Blown 572. Commander has never built one with a #3 drive, they have built afew with a #5 drive. :cool:

CARRERA
02-10-2004, 06:27 PM
This has all gotten very funny. Last week just about everyone was singing a different tune about Commander Boats.

MRS FLYIN VEE
02-10-2004, 06:34 PM
Originally posted by CARRERA
This has all gotten very funny. Last week just about everyone was singing a different tune about Commander Boats.
I'm still singing..;) :D J/K :D

CARRERA
02-10-2004, 06:37 PM
Who else is still singing?

LASERRAY
02-10-2004, 06:40 PM
Originally posted by CARRERA
Who els is still singing? There are six shirtless gay guys singing "Rally around the flag boys" on another thread.......................................!:D

Ziggy
02-10-2004, 06:40 PM
This crap is old---leave it alone.
.
I'm singing "I shot the Sheriff".

SHAKE-YO-AZZ
02-10-2004, 06:50 PM
ooooo no not another night

SHAKE-YO-AZZ
02-10-2004, 06:51 PM
MFV, for some reason i cant get the pics to show, the best i got was a "X" in a small box

MRS FLYIN VEE
02-10-2004, 06:57 PM
Originally posted by SHAKE-YO-AZZ
MFV, for some reason i cant get the pics to show, the best i got was a "X" in a small box
WHEN YOU RIGHT CLICK ON THE PICTURE DO YOU GET A BOX THAT SAYS PROPERTIES AT THE BOTTOM?;)

MRS FLYIN VEE
02-10-2004, 06:58 PM
Originally posted by titties and beer
my wife is screaming at me ,i just FARTED:D :D
now I can hear her from here.. LOL!! you get him girl.. she will get you back I have faith in her..:D ;)

SHAKE-YO-AZZ
02-10-2004, 07:00 PM
yes and i copy that address in the img box after i click it

MRS FLYIN VEE
02-10-2004, 07:01 PM
Originally posted by SHAKE-YO-AZZ
yes and i copy that address in the img box after i click it
o.k now you have to paste it in the box and hit o.k after that goto the thread you want to post in and click img and paste it in that box then click o.k ;)

MRS FLYIN VEE
02-10-2004, 07:02 PM
Originally posted by titties and beer
I KNOW SHE WILL X2:( I say X4 I feel she needs the pay back..:D

SHAKE-YO-AZZ
02-10-2004, 07:03 PM
http://C:\My Documents\My Pictures\000_0181
this is what i get an "X" but no pic

MRS FLYIN VEE
02-10-2004, 07:05 PM
now it should look like this
[img]your pic[img/];)

MRS FLYIN VEE
02-10-2004, 07:06 PM
Originally posted by titties and beer
SHE SAY SHES WORK'N ONE UP AS WE SPEAK:eek!: :jawdrop: BE AFRAID BE VERY AFRAID:D
that a girl.. I love her already.. Pay back is a biatch isn't it.. :D :D

MRS FLYIN VEE
02-10-2004, 07:08 PM
Originally posted by titties and beer
just enjoy the red x:D
enjoy this from your wife..http://www.riverratlife.com/forums/board/ubb/graemlins/fart.gif

SHAKE-YO-AZZ
02-10-2004, 07:09 PM
Originally posted by titties and beer
just enjoy the red x:D
no more beer for you

LAVEYSABRE575
02-10-2004, 07:17 PM
CARRERA is your name louie...derek

CARRERA
02-11-2004, 04:50 PM
Originally posted by LAVEYSABRE575
CARRERA is your name louie...derek
No my name is not Louie............

BoatFloating
02-11-2004, 05:01 PM
Originally posted by LAVEYSABRE575
CARRERA is your name louie...derek
Derek your thinking of the guy named Louie who bought Dennis's old 28 that looks like CARRERA's......

LAVEYSABRE575
02-11-2004, 07:53 PM
boatfloating your right, i see that boat at the springs alot , graphics look similar to carrera,s..... sorry carrera

hot_diggity_dog
05-16-2004, 06:34 AM
TTT
HDD:cool:

Mandelon
05-16-2004, 08:07 AM
HDD you are a Troublemaker.
Why did Sy only drop one post off then leave....:confused:

OutCole'd
05-16-2004, 08:07 AM
Originally posted by Mandelon
HDD you are a Troublemaker.
Why did Sy only drop one post off then leave....:confused:
His computer got repo'd

GlastronGuy
05-16-2004, 08:19 AM
Originally posted by SHAKE-YO-AZZ
http://C:\My Documents\My Pictures\000_0181
this is what i get an "X" but no pic
UH, the pic needs to be on the internet, not your hard drive,
:D
Upload them to here. (http://www.***boat.com/image_center/index.php)