PDA

View Full Version : F34 rollover facts



sandbagr
07-06-2004, 12:35 AM
I hope this helps clear up some rumours and speculations. The F34 (white with red and silver stripes and red hatches) left Nautical point approx 7:30pm. About half way to sight six approx. 80 to 85mph. A pontoon boat cut accross the lake and the flow of traffic into the F34's path. The F34 let off the gas but it was too late. The shoreline was on the right, the pontoon was straight so the F34 made a hard left. All five passengers were sitting in the back seat. The driver and 4 passengers were ejected, one passenger stayed in the boat as the boat rolled over upright. All people survived with bumps, and bruises with one passenger staying in the hospital for a possible bruised pelvis. The F34 was towed over by another boat to site six and the pontoon was not seen again.

SandbarScot
07-06-2004, 05:17 AM
Did either boat operator get hooked for duece?

GlastronGuy
07-06-2004, 05:34 AM
Anyone know how close the pontoon boat was to the F34?

MagicMtnDan
07-06-2004, 06:03 AM
A boat going 80+ MPH late in the early evening hours finds another boat in its path and rolls over in an accident-avoiding manuver. Given that information, it sounds like it ended up with perhaps the best possible results - five survivors, "only one" in the hospital for what sounds like non-serious injuries, and the boat ends up being towed back in. Sounds like everyone was lucky.

Danhercules
07-06-2004, 07:16 AM
I still think the driver of the F34 is a complete moron for making a pass that fast in front of site 6.

BoatFloating
07-06-2004, 07:18 AM
Originally posted by sandbagr
I hope this helps clear up some rumours and speculations. The F34 (white with red and silver stripes and red hatches) left Nautical point approx 7:30pm. About half way to sight six approx. 80 to 85mph. A pontoon boat cut accross the lake and the flow of traffic into the F34's path. The F34 let off the gas but it was too late. The shoreline was on the right, the pontoon was straight so the F34 made a hard left. All five passengers were sitting in the back seat. The driver and 4 passengers were ejected, one passenger stayed in the boat as the boat rolled over upright. All people survived with bumps, and bruises with one passenger staying in the hospital for a possible bruised pelvis. The F34 was towed over by another boat to site six and the pontoon was not seen again.
Where are you getting your info. Didn't the boat roll? It seems like 80-85mph you would have time to avoid a Pontoon since they aren't moving that fast. Just some questions that haven't been answered.

gmocnik
07-06-2004, 07:43 AM
Hmmmm.....
Reports from those at the Islander that witnessed the incident from the penninsula mentioned nothing about a pontoon.
Having experienced the water and traffic conditions on that part of the lake all weekend, an 80 mph pass in that area certainly was a poor decision and thankfully the consequences of that decision were not fatal and all will recover to enjoy another day on the water.
Some honest insight would be helpfull here:
1. In a twin engine setup, at 80-100 mph what happens when a drive or motor fails? Do you have time to react or does it just go left/right withourt a chance of compensating?
2. In a cat, how "extreme" of a turn can you make at 80-100 mph? Is it possible to make avoidance manuevers at this speed?
3. Having had a near miss on Sunday myself, I just can't imagine how a pontoon could have been going at a rate or direction that could not have been avoided well in advance of a panic manuever.
4. After spending Sunday evening watching the ramp antics (from shore) at site six, I am amazed that more people are not killed every weekend. There are simply way too many impaired and incompetent idiots on the water
With 34 footers rolling over, 28' deckboats throwing guys overboard, and dopes falling of the back of boats and drowning our days of being able to enjoy the sport we love without severe limitations are numbered in days.

Three Days Only
07-06-2004, 08:32 AM
ttt

Dr. Eagle
07-06-2004, 08:37 AM
Originally posted by gmocnik
Some honest insight would be helpfull here:
1. In a twin engine setup, at 80-100 mph what happens when a drive or motor fails? Do you have time to react or does it just go left/right withourt a chance of compensating?
Not sure on a cat, but on my 30 Eliminator the starboard engine blew at speed and I didn't notice much pull at all with the offshore twin ram hydraulic steering... just slowed down pretty fast.

Cole
07-06-2004, 08:48 AM
Where is site six?
Isn't 80 mph almost a cruising speed for a boat like this, not saying that it wasnt exessive...rather just easy to be going 80 and not think much of it.....i hope everyone is alright and that alcohol is not a factor!!!

Rvr2Bch
07-06-2004, 08:52 AM
We watched the whole thing from our place at the Islander. We heard the boat haulin ass in front of the park then all of the sudden heard a loud "whomp" sound and looked and saw about a hundred foot spray of water. It looked like everyone was ejected and that the seats had been as well. After looking through the binoculars, we saw that nobody was really panicing, so we figured that everyone was okay. It got harder and harder to see as the sun kept going down, but nobody was treating it as a real emergency. The next thing we saw was the boat being towed away by another boat, and the fire trucks coming into the Islander.

al cole'holic
07-06-2004, 10:06 AM
I am pretty sure that was the only red F34 out there...dude was driving like a mother ****er out there way earlier than that. I was heading to the lower sand bar with 10 people onboard around noonish, coming around that left turn bend he decided to pass me on the left forcing me into the path of another boat further forcing me into the weeds all while giving me a dual #6 shower.
Way to go, nice rollover....IDIOT ;)

Havasu Hangin'
07-06-2004, 10:34 AM
Originally posted by al cole'holic
...while giving me a dual #6 shower.
That's one heck of a trick if he has 620's and Bravos...

Ducatista
07-06-2004, 10:36 AM
Originally posted by gmocnik
Hmmmm.....
Reports from those at the Islander that witnessed the incident from the penninsula mentioned nothing about a pontoon.
4. After spending Sunday evening watching the ramp antics (from shore) at site six, I am amazed that more people are not killed every weekend. There are simply way too many impaired and incompetent idiots on the water
With 34 footers rolling over, 28' deckboats throwing guys overboard, and dopes falling of the back of boats and drowning our days of being able to enjoy the sport we love without severe limitations are numbered in days.
Big 10/4 on that. Days are numbered...... I also spoke with a person on the penninsula that saw it and no mention of any other boat close by. Although, there are a couple of nice big coves right there, and if he was close to the shore line that could have been a contributing factor. Pay your money and take your chances at 85mph....they are all lucky to be alive. I was told yesterday the driver was cited for OUI, but haven't been able to confirm it yet. Man we just got back from 11 days at Havasu. Glad it was nice & uneventful for us, after catching up on some of these threads.....damn.

al cole'holic
07-06-2004, 10:42 AM
Originally posted by Havasu Hangin'
That's one heck of a trick if he has 620's and Bravos...
..my point was how close he came to me, if it wasn't #6's but Bravo's then please accept my appology...douche bag!

SHAKEN Not Stirred
07-06-2004, 11:34 AM
My buddies and I went down to the dock to see the boat that evening. It was really messed up.
Starboard drive was broken off at the end of the extension box, structural cracks going vertical down to the bottom of the hull, horizontal cracks about 5' long from the rear toward the front.
Port engine hatch was ripped off, both canopies were damaged.
There was a guy in the boat cleaning it up and seeing if it was taking on water. He asked if we were with the boat and we said no. He then said the driver was taken in for suspected DUI. The hour meter showed 63 hours.....total.
Then......a guy walks up and says he was in the boat when it went over, said that a pontoon boat cut them off. I said how does a pontoon boat cut you off when an F34 considers them a stationary object ??? Too much gas, not enough brain !!!
Then the guy cleaning out the boat hands the guy that was in the boat a trash bag full of cans (don't know what type!!) and says.....get rid of these.....
Then the salvage guys showed up and caused a scene at the ramp by cutting in line.....Gotta love Site-6.
Oh yea......Someone said the guy's name was "Moe" , use to have a F29 and he was a Snap-On dealer out of Torrance........
Thats all I saw & know......
CJG

boatnam2
07-06-2004, 11:45 AM
hey jrocket sounds like your insurance may be going up again.

Three Days Only
07-06-2004, 11:52 AM
Sounds like alot of damage for a 85mph roll over.

Jrocket
07-06-2004, 11:54 AM
Originally posted by boatnam2
hey jrocket sounds like your insurance may be going up again.
I wouldnt doubt it!

Reaper1
07-06-2004, 12:00 PM
Originally posted by Christopher Gibbons
Oh yea......Someone said the guy's name was "Moe" , use to have a F29 and he was a Snap-On dealer out of Torrance........
Don't know if this is the same guy but my brother and I looked at a used Mach 26 in Torrance and the guy was a snap on driver. Said he was looking to upsize. Sounds like the same dude.:confused:

Havasu Hangin'
07-06-2004, 12:05 PM
Originally posted by al cole'holic
..my point was how close he came to me, if it wasn't #6's but Bravo's then please accept my appology...douche bag!
Hey Al...no need to get your edible panties in a wad...
...did I tell you about the 30SS that was parked next to me at Terribles?

al cole'holic
07-06-2004, 12:26 PM
Originally posted by Havasu Hangin'
Hey Al...no need to get your edible panties in a wad...
...did I tell you about the 30SS that was parked next to me at Terribles?
...freeball, no wads that way :D
No you didn't but Father's Day weekend I was two pumps over from you..you bailed out without coming over to fight...;)

syke-o
07-06-2004, 12:29 PM
glad everyone was ok... on a side note: do you think people will start talkin trash about DCB's rolling over now and tie it in with HTM roll overs??

al cole'holic
07-06-2004, 12:32 PM
Originally posted by syke-o
glad everyone was ok... on a side note: do you think people will start talkin trash about DCB's rolling over now and tie it in with HTM roll overs??
:D :D :D

Havasu Hangin'
07-06-2004, 12:43 PM
Originally posted by al cole'holic
...No you didn't but Father's Day weekend I was two pumps over from you..you bailed out without coming over to fight...;)
Actually, once I saw "Cole Caine"... I did come over to fight, but I guess you were cowering in a corner somewhere...:eek:
Not too many 30SS's out there. :wink:
I notice you didn't come over to beat up on little ole me? :confused:

Rvr2Bch
07-06-2004, 12:43 PM
Originally posted by Ducatista
Big 10/4 on that. Days are numbered...... I also spoke with a person on the penninsula that saw it and no mention of any other boat close by. Although, there are a couple of nice big coves right there, and if he was close to the shore line that could have been a contributing factor. Pay your money and take your chances at 85mph....they are all lucky to be alive. I was told yesterday the driver was cited for OUI, but haven't been able to confirm it yet. Man we just got back from 11 days at Havasu. Glad it was nice & uneventful for us, after catching up on some of these threads.....damn.
Sorry we missed you over the weekend. Tried to yell at you on Saturday night when you were crusin' under the bridge, but I don't think you could hear us. Hopefully we'll see you in a few weeks. Glad you had a nice long vacation!
-Rvr2Bch

al cole'holic
07-06-2004, 01:06 PM
Originally posted by Havasu Hangin'
Actually, once I saw "Cole Caine"... I did come over to fight, but I guess you were cowering in a corner somewhere...:eek:
Not too many 30SS's out there. :wink:
I notice you didn't come over to beat up on little ole me? :confused:
..you're too funny.

J540
07-06-2004, 01:09 PM
Originally posted by Havasu Hangin'
That's one heck of a trick if he has 620's and Bravos...
I have pics of the mess, boat is F,ed up. and no they are not 6s they were Bravos (imco/Teague) I had to tow their truck up the ramp, had know traction, dont have time now but put up more pics when i get back Wife wants to go to the mall:mad: :D :D
OH buy the way driver went to the jail house to answer some ??s And one of the guys that was tossed out of the boat told me there was 3 girls 3 guys girls were the ones hurt ribs mabe.

prosthogod
07-06-2004, 02:15 PM
I hear DCB's are prone to roll over, especially the ones with canopies, due to the high center of gravity.;) ;)

Kilrtoy
07-06-2004, 02:27 PM
WOW,
Rumors are out of control.
I was passing by site 6 earlier in the day when a pontoon came ripping out of the shoreline right in front of me flying out of the water, he was probably going 35MPH or so. Luckly it was so ruff I was probably going 20-25 MPH. I just let off the gas ass the wife cussed and screamed at the asshole.
Now to the story a pontoon came flying out at a high rate of speed and the DCB was going around 40.
3 options hard right into the shore
Hit the Pontoon
or the one that occurred hard left and flat spun the boat, ejecting all the passengers.
As for the driver that is his business I wont comment on what his status is.
There was an accident so of course the police are going to talk to you, maybe even back at the station....

boxscore
07-06-2004, 02:30 PM
Originally posted by prosthogod
I hear DCB's are prone to roll over, especially the ones with canopies, due to the high center of gravity.;) ;)
Really?.... where did you hear that. And the 34... did it actually roll or spin out?
If it rolled and ended up right side up, then that is friggen amazing.

Three Days Only
07-06-2004, 02:32 PM
Originally posted by boxscore
Really?.... where did you hear that. And the 34... did it actually roll or spin out?
If it rolled and ended up right side up, then that is friggen amazing.
No, thats called luck!!!! Its a 50/50 chance.

boxscore
07-06-2004, 02:35 PM
Originally posted by Three Days Only
No, thats called luck!!!! Its a 50/50 chance.
I meant "luck". I say less than 50/50 once that wet side sees sunshine.

Scream
07-06-2004, 02:36 PM
I'm confused :confused:
1. Was everyone alright
2. How fast was the Cat going, 40 or 80, cause my v will do 40 and not 80
3. How old were the pontooners and did they stop to help (gray hairs out for revenge or what)
4. The inside of that boat looked like my bachelor pad, that sucks
5. I'm still confused.

boxscore
07-06-2004, 02:39 PM
Originally posted by Scream
I'm confused :confused:
1. Was everyone alright
2. How fast was the Cat going, 40 or 80, cause my v will do 40 and not 80
3. How old were the pontooners and did they stop to help (gray hairs out for revenge or what)
4. The inside of that boat looked like my bachelor pad, that sucks
5. I'm still confused.
You're confused?....PERFECT... that's the goal of ***boat Reader Forums.... RAMPANT SPECULATION! :confused:

MagicMtnDan
07-06-2004, 03:32 PM
If the info posted is factual, I for one won't be surprised if the driver was under the influence.
I heard there was a fight in a different boat and someone in the boat "fell" (or was "tossed") overboard. And the rumor is he is still missing :frown:
None of this bodes well for the 'Zoo and for the law abiders who use the lake. How many more straws before the camel's back breaks? :confused:
Too many boozed cruisers makes it dangerous for everyone
http://www.ayianapa2002.com/pictures/cruise1.JPG

Jrocket
07-06-2004, 03:36 PM
Well the story I heard from a blind guy was,The driver was in reverse going about 80 and cranked the wheel trying to do a Rockford and rolled it over!:D
Alright how can there be so many people from the forums on that lake and nobody saw the whole deal,Start to finish?
That pontoon boat must have some good pick up to dart out and not be able to see it until the last minute,requiring a hard manuver from the DCB driver.

RiverDave
07-06-2004, 03:42 PM
So quick to blame booze.. It's almost as if there is no idiots in the world, there is just people that drink.
So those guys that cut people off, and are assholes on the freeway @ 8:00 in the morning on the way to work, they must be boozing it up too..
The stupid shit that happens out at the river genuinely has little to do with booze. Keep in mind I'm NOT talking about the guys in the DCB becuase I dunno what happened, they could've just lost a drive for all I know..???
My point is though, I've seen people do stupid shit on the water dead sober, and I've seen some pretty drunk asses come up with some clever shit and everything in between. Don't get me wrong, once again I'm NOT advocating going and getting sloshed and driving your boat, but to blame the slightest impairment for the most idiotic of maneuvers time after time just makes NO sense to me whatsoever. And time after time the people that do it, either A. Don't Drink or B. Don't goto the river.
DAMN NEAR EVERYBODY I KNOW drinks and drive their boats.. The ones that got clipped along the way would probably come back and tell you that it wasn't the booze if they could, just an extra ordinary set of circumstances that came together at once.
I will admit though for "team propoganda" there are some people that just flat shouldn't drink.. Liquid Courage, etc... We all know these people, and yes a few of them kill themselves and others behind hte wheel of anything (cars boats etc..) But for the most part, the problem isn't the booze.. The problem is them drinking the booze. I.E. the problem is THEM.
RD

MagicMtnDan
07-06-2004, 03:44 PM
I don't think anyone mentioned it but based on the approximate timeframe reported, it wouldn't take a "fast pontoon boat" (is that an oxymoron?) to cause a problem at that hour of day - the visibility might not have been very good especially if a high rate of speed is involved!

Liquid Courage
07-06-2004, 03:46 PM
Originally posted by J540
I have pics of the mess, boat is F,ed up. and no they are not 6s they were Bravos (imco/Teague) I had to tow their truck up the ramp, had know traction, dont have time now but put up more pics when i get back Wife wants to go to the mall:mad: :D :D
OH buy the way driver went to the jail house to answer some ??s And one of the guys that was tossed out of the boat told me there was 3 girls 3 guys girls were the ones hurt ribs mabe.
By the picture I'm glad to see they got the most important thing out of the lake.....The cooler!

RiverDave
07-06-2004, 03:47 PM
Originally posted by MagicMtnDan
I don't think anyone mentioned it but based on the approximate timeframe reported, it wouldn't take a "fast pontoon boat" (is that an oxymoron?) to cause a problem at that hour of day - the visibility might not have been very good especially if a high rate of speed is involved!
PlayCraft makes Pontoon's that damn near run 70mph.. They are up in the high 60's with a 496HO, and they are getting pretty common nowdays. Good alternative to the deckboat market.
RD

amw
07-06-2004, 03:50 PM
i like the guy who said dcbs are prone to roll due to high center of gravity thats great ha ha ha lets just bash the builder like they did htm no there were no cercumstances

UnionJack
07-06-2004, 03:56 PM
PROSTHOGHOD....
First sit in an F-26 and then tell me about the center of gravity in the F-decks....
***** The one thing that is killing me, is that we are looking at him like he did somthing so bad, my question "Is the pot calling the keddle BLACK" How many time have you had too much (SUN) and then driven your boat back to the ramp? Chances are that you even had your Friends and Family in there, is that cool, No and I think someday you kid will be going to the river with some dumb bastard that is doing the samething.
I am really glad that everyone is alright, but we have all been there, just lucky that nothing has happened to us.

amw
07-06-2004, 04:01 PM
hey shock wave bob u are probably right i suck at reading these threads i forget about the faces hahaha thanks he might have a dcb hahaha

Wet Dream
07-06-2004, 04:22 PM
Originally posted by BoatFloating
Where are you getting your info. Didn't the boat roll? It seems like 80-85mph you would have time to avoid a Pontoon since they aren't moving that fast. Just some questions that haven't been answered.
I've seen a few upper end pontoons move out pretty well. Now I don't know that lake at all or the situation, but I can picture a pontoon coming perpendicular to your line of travel and screwing things up in a hurry.

Liquid Courage
07-06-2004, 04:35 PM
This guy on the other thread saw it and explained it in great detail.....
I've got one on all of you. Not only did i see the boat launch through the air but so did everyone on my boat. Had to say this was a heart stopping experience. We were just pulling out of the Islander boat launch and man you could hear the thunderous roar coming!!! Being we were looking directly at the boat from the side we could not tell if it hooked left or right as some reports have stated, like losing a prop or final drive etc. I can tell ya this, he didnt lose an engine because it was strong never missing a beat untill the 2nd flip. You could hear the fuel shutting down with the fluttering of the engines. It rolled/cartwheeled then you could see some dark objects through the massive water spray/splash possibly people or ice chests then it came back down on the water skipped like a rock on what looked like the top deck and shot up again flipping and landing rightside up. This was such a spectacular seen wow! we almost had it on video. before we even saw the boat you could here it coming as we were getting the video out to shoot the boat he was already directly in front of us and then up he went. My first time at Havasu and first time on this site love them both.

Phat Matt
07-06-2004, 04:37 PM
Just to clear things up I was there this weekend and it wasn't and F34, it was a couple of F16's and only one of the was inverted but I see how people could confuse it with a rollover. Here's the picture I took off of site 6. :D
http://www.wubbledoo.com/_borders/f16_jpg.jpg

MudPumper
07-06-2004, 04:46 PM
OK, enough of all this Pontoon boat bashing!!!!!!:D In all seriousness though, Myself and Wrightnow were sitting on the shore at Big River Saturday afternoon and heard a boat that sounded like it was running pretty good. Definitely a big block in it. We look out at the river and to our suprise, it was a 24' or 26' Tri-Toon. It had to be runnin about 50mph. I couldn't believe it. It was movin out! So is it possible a pontoon pulled out in front of him, yes. Did it likely happen, probably not. This isn't your fathers pontoon boat! :D ;)

73kona455
07-06-2004, 04:54 PM
Originally posted by Phat Matt
Just to clear things up I was there this weekend and it wasn't and F34, it was a couple of F16's and only one of the was inverted but I see how people could confuse it with a rollover. Here's the picture I took off of site 6. :D
http://www.wubbledoo.com/_borders/f16_jpg.jpg
Wouldnt that be a F32?

Phat Matt
07-06-2004, 04:56 PM
Originally posted by 73kona455
Wouldnt that be a F32?
That's one way of looking at it. See how the story changes. ;)

Goodtime$
07-06-2004, 05:30 PM
Mudpumper..haha yah the big block TRI TOON. that thing cruised by my boat down river from you at like 50. Had sweet exhausty pipys coming out the back of it. It was big too, like 28footish Deckboat.
about the accident.
1. thank god no one was killed.
2. everybody enjoys a beverage on the river, stop thinking we are all holy.
3. Damn, destroying a DCB F34 has to bring you down a notch at the pearly gates. It should be a crime.
hahah tritoon..that thing was fast for a biggy pontoon

Goodtime$
07-06-2004, 05:34 PM
http://www.playcraftboats.com/xtreme.htm
infamous

MudPumper
07-06-2004, 05:51 PM
Yep, that's it. We just sat there and stared at it, then started laughing.:D It was pretty sweet.

Three Days Only
07-06-2004, 06:11 PM
The fact is that shit happens, no one but the people in the boat know why or how this occured. Whether or not alcohol was involved really doesnt matter unless the guy was plastered drunk, which im sure he would be smarter then that, at least I hope he knows such things as limits. Im sure all of us have driven our boats loaded not drunk but well buzzed at one time or another, I know that I have. Luckily during that period of time an accident didnt occur for my sake. You got to say one thing for the guy, no matter what occured, if a pontoon boat really did cut him off he saved everyones lives on that boat. Hitting the pontoon boat would have more then likely killed everyone on the floating twin hulled beer keg. He took the risk of a hard turn and unfournetly the boat hooked and rolled. I would say the speeds were much higher then 80 - 85 as stated earlier in this thread after hearing that this boat rolled over 3 times. It takes major speed to throw a heavy cat over three times in a row. At 80 mph my boat will turn pretty hard if im on the gas, and I would never think of hooking it at that speed it just seems to slow.
The other thing about this thread that is sort of irratating me is the fact that alot of people out here have never owned or even ridden in a boat of this size and caliber. They go on here and say that a 80 -100 mph pass on site six is crazy. The fact is at 80, 90, or 100 we are just crusing and the boats ride like they are on rails. They are not out of control on the edge, they are smooth as silk and designed to run those speeds comfortably and under control. I have blown by there on many many occasions and always stay towards the california shoreline, If theres alot of traffic I will slow down but other wise 95 to 110 will be the speed. I am guilty of this exact same excessive speed on the lake every weekend im there, Last weekend I had her up over 130 passing steamboat cove on friday afternoon. Why his boat hooked who knows, but luckily he didnt hit the pontoon and now one died, It could have been way worse, and in my opinion he did the right thing hooking it hard to avoid the other boat. If he was drunk off his ass and shouldnt have been driving the boat, then **** him, he's just an idiot, and he deserved it, but for some reason I think it was just bad judgement call and he was traveling way over 80 for that type of impact. I would guess way over a 100 easy.
My .02
3DO / Jeff

Havasu Hangin'
07-06-2004, 06:19 PM
Crap...I think I may actually agree with 3GO...:eek:

Three Days Only
07-06-2004, 06:24 PM
Originally posted by Havasu Hangin'
Crap...I think I may actually agree with 3GO...:eek:
Thats a shocker

SoCalOffshore
07-06-2004, 06:26 PM
I am sad to say your going to see more if this as people can afford more boat than they can safely drive. Just because a boat can go 140 or 160, doesn't mean the driver has the ability to handle it. Could there be a correlation to the high cat insurance costs to the number of accidents? I am glad to hear there were no life threatening injuries. I would be interested if there are any high performance boating education/driving programs available.

Havasu Hangin'
07-06-2004, 06:37 PM
Originally posted by Three Days Only
Thats a shocker
The bottom line is that we all have to rely on the other guy to be somewhat safe and aware.
I remember the time I was t-boned by a PWC while idling in Thomson Bay (the guy went to the hospital). I was doing a whopping 5 MPH.
Speed is just one variable....and like 3GO points out, some boats are much safer than others...like it or not.
Relying on other people to be safe (and aware) is becoming harder and harder these days- we are not alone on the lake very often anymore.

Three Days Only
07-06-2004, 06:40 PM
If you look at statitics there are more accidents with V-bottoms then there are with cats, purely due to the fact that there are most likely 2000+ V's for every cat nationwide including the ocean. Cat insurance is on the rise due to the expense of the boats, and the speed. The accidents make up a far less precentage when compared to V bottom boats. You cant insure a 150K to 200K boat for the same as a 75K dollar boat either. Alot of the cats on the lake are 120K+, there going to be more expensive to insure.

77charger
07-06-2004, 06:44 PM
Originally posted by Three Days Only
The other thing about this thread that is sort of irratating me is the fact that alot of people out here have never owned or even ridden in a boat of this size and caliber. They go on here and say that a 80 -100 mph pass on site six is crazy. The fact is at 80, 90, or 100 we are just crusing and the boats ride like they are on rails. They are not out of control on the edge, they are smooth as silk and designed to run those speeds comfortably and under control.
3DO / Jeff Aparently they dont ride on rails if they have been rollin over.Any speed where you cant safely come to a stop to avod accidents is too fast.IMO You dont go driving a vette in freeways in and out of traffic just cause they can cruise 120 easily do you. Lots of boats on the water is comparable to this.I have been on the water a few times this year and have seen boats blast by once they pass me(clear water ahead)And others coming head on full speed weaving in and out of traffic(topoc to havasu)And all size shapes of boats

Havasu Hangin'
07-06-2004, 06:48 PM
Originally posted by 77charger
Aparently they dont ride on rails if they have been rollin over.Any speed where you cant safely come to a stop to avod accidents is too fast.IMO You dont go driving a vette in freeways in and out of traffic just cause they can cruise 120 easily do you. Lots of boats on the water is comparable to this.I have been on the water a few times this year and have seen boats blast by once they pass me(clear water ahead)And others coming head on full speed weaving in and out of traffic(topoc to havasu)And all size shapes of boats
Uh...77discharger?
I was doing 5 MPH in calm, sunny conditions and I still got in an accident.
Speed alone does not cause accidents.

Three Days Only
07-06-2004, 06:53 PM
Originally posted by Havasu Hangin'
The bottom line is that we all have to rely on the other guy to be somewhat safe and aware.
I remember the time I was t-boned by a PWC while idling in Thomson Bay (the guy went to the hospital). I was doing a whopping 5 MPH.
Speed is just one variable....and like 3GO points out, some boats are much safer than others...like it or not.
Relying on other people to be safe (and aware) is becoming harder and harder these days- we are not alone on the lake very often anymore.
I couldnt agree more, I can not say that im unsafe behind the wheel of my boat, but I take chances while running high speed runs, after 110 theres always a chance of some sort of failure that could end up in a disaster. If the lake is busy, I will always slow down, and if the wife and kids are on the boat, at least the last couple of weekends I have been cruising around 60, and it sucks.
I still got that bottle of goose for you. She is all safe wrapped up in a towel under one of my back seats. The least you could do is get it from me one weekend!!!! Its not going to be a boat warming gift much longer, its just going to be a jesture of ????????

Havasu Hangin'
07-06-2004, 06:58 PM
Originally posted by Three Days Only
....its just going to be a jesture of ????????
"Affection"? Gee...I didn't know I was your type (v-bottom).
Ice it up...after some runs to the Yardhouse and Catalina I'm draggin' the pig back out there.

Jbb
07-06-2004, 07:04 PM
Originally posted by Havasu Hangin'
Uh...77discharger?
I was doing 5 MPH in calm, sunny conditions and I still got in an accident.
Speed alone does not cause accidents.
Make a note of it......Speed dont cause accidents......Jeff causes accidents.....:)

Three Days Only
07-06-2004, 07:05 PM
Originally posted by 77charger
Aparently they dont ride on rails if they have been rollin over.
Try turning a V bottom at 80 plus hard, you will end up like this guy. This fountain rolled ejected the passangers and continued up the shoreline.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/985fountain_2.jpg
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/985fountain_1.jpg
I have been on the water a few times this year and have seen boats blast by once they pass me(clear water ahead)And others coming head on full speed weaving in and out of traffic(topoc to havasu)And all size shapes of boats
Some people are idiots and some people have saftey in mind for themselves and you. I get in my wife's car and run it 120 down the freeway if theres no traffic, and I do the same with my boat. I do it with saftey in mind, but none the less I do it. Shiat in her new car maybe I can get this one up to 135-140 down the 5. Sure feels faster in a car then in a boat, I can tell you that for sure. We have made it from Santa Clarita to Vegas in 2 Hours 45 Min, down the 15 130 most of the way. The cars average speed was 122. There was no traffic would you say that was stupid, it was fun as hell.

Three Days Only
07-06-2004, 07:08 PM
Originally posted by Havasu Hangin'
"Affection"? Gee...I didn't know I was your type (v-bottom).
Ice it up...after some runs to the Yardhouse and Catalina I'm draggin' the pig back out there.
Yardhouse and Catalina, now thats my favorite stomping grounds. If you got questions call me, you got the number. Its hard going back to Havasu after having the freedom of the ocean. Theres no Morons out there, at least you dont see them often.
Jeff

motoboy913
07-06-2004, 07:19 PM
Try turning a V bottom at 80 plus hard, you will end up like this guy. This fountain rolled ejected the passangers and continued up the shoreline.
those are some crazy pix def dont wanna do that in a boat

cigarette1
07-06-2004, 07:25 PM
Everybody does NOT drink while out boating ... I don't and neither do many of my boating friends (some do, but I ain't thay daddy).
To put ypurself in a position to let a deckboat cut you off at speed is YOUR fault. Running 80-90-100+ past Site-6, so close to shore that a boat can come out of nowhere is irresponsible .. that's like driving 50-60 down a residential street, hoping no one comes out of a driveway. AS 3DO says, he runs closer to the Cali side and then slows when there's any traffic (one boat can be traffic if it can turn into your path). You MUST always expect the worst and hope for the best.
One more thing ... the reason you'll never learn the truth is because the person who knows the truth will be (kindly) asked to remove their info and shut the fu@k up because they will be interferring in the insurance claim. For example when a board member gave the details of an Apache ejecting occupants at the NYC Poker Run. Finally there was a case where people could learn something from someone who saw everything and survivors ... but Noooooooo ..... delete your comments, you're in my business. I can understand the Apache owners position, because I would probably ask the same. That's why relying on an internet message board for accident details is a joke. Just wait for an official report, if that ever comes out.
Run yo $hit in the ocean ... there's more room.
G

Kilrtoy
07-06-2004, 07:27 PM
We have made it from Santa Clarita to Vegas in 2 Hours 45 Min,
That is funny, I made that trip in the same exact amount of time from chatsworth to vegas and people say that it is impossible it takes me 5 hours......

superdave013
07-06-2004, 07:36 PM
Originally posted by cigarette1
To put ypurself in a position to let a deckboat cut you off at speed is YOUR fault. Running 80-90-100+ past Site-6, so close to shore that a boat can come out of nowhere is irresponsible .. G
Nuff said right there.

motoboy913
07-06-2004, 07:38 PM
i concur :wink:

77charger
07-06-2004, 07:44 PM
Originally posted by Three Days Only
Try turning a V bottom at 80 plus hard, you will end up like this guy. This fountain rolled ejected the passangers and continued up the shoreline.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/985fountain_2.jpg
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/985fountain_1.jpg
Some people are idiots and some people have saftey in mind for themselves and you. I get in my wife's car and run it 120 down the freeway if theres no traffic, and I do the same with my boat. I do it with saftey in mind, but none the less I do it. Shiat in her new car maybe I can get this one up to 135-140 down the 5. Sure feels faster in a car then in a boat, I can tell you that for sure. We have made it from Santa Clarita to Vegas in 2 Hours 45 Min, down the 15 130 most of the way. The cars average speed was 122. There was no traffic would you say that was stupid, it was fun as hell. Like i said if the road is open go for it. (just watch out for the chp)I have blasted to 160+ on my gsxr 750 a couple of times too(it will top out over 170 in stock form)even a couple of stand up wheelies to 105 mph.But that road is now open to normal traffic:mad:

cigarette1
07-06-2004, 07:52 PM
Originally posted by Three Days Only
Yardhouse and Catalina, now thats my favorite stomping grounds. If you got questions call me, you got the number. Its hard going back to Havasu after having the freedom of the ocean. Theres no Morons out there, at least you dont see them often.
Jeff
Dashwhat I'm talkin'bout :cool:

Misogynist
07-06-2004, 07:54 PM
I wonder if it had a horn that played.... " I wish I was in the land of dixie" ?.....:p

slowinhavasu
07-06-2004, 08:10 PM
Yes, the driver was cited for being impaird ?
Note the time of day, sunset. Boat heading, west.
High rate of speed in one of the busiest parts of the lake.
Hey hot dogs, WAIT till you turn the corner and head north west towards the middle of the lake,it's much wider and no coves for pontoons to sneak up on you.
It's the same old story, wrong place wrong time. I keep looking for some logic in this story,I can't find any.
I have to deal with this crap from spring break through Sept. Sunday through thursdays about the only time I feel we can go out with out somone running up our back. I take that back, coming back from the sand bar yesterday some A** hole had to run his Baja up my port side just cause he thought he was cool. He had plenty of room to move to the east, but no he ran right up to us.....give me a break......
Give way to the slow small guy, all were doing is trying to stay out of your way.
:(

Magic34
07-06-2004, 08:11 PM
and he was traveling way over 80 for that type of impact. I would guess way over a 100 easy.
My .02
3DO / Jeff [/B][/QUOTE]
I agree with this. For it to actually roll 3 times (if it did) is a lot for that size of boat. When watching offshore races, those rarely roll 3 times in an accident at 125 MPH.
However, an eyewitness on this site said it rolled at least twice. I would think 80 was a bit slow for that.

Magic34
07-06-2004, 08:18 PM
One more thing, about 2 months ago on the East coast, a guy was selling this 38 Top Gun (year 2000+) and was taking a potential buyer for a test ride. He rolled/flipped the boat at an estimated 80 MPH from a large wake coming from the side. It killed one of the 2 guys. If I can find the story, I'll post it.
When you get into high performance, the only thing stopping an accident is the driver no matter what bottom you have.
I feel safer in my cat than I did my V. Just my .02

Bense468
07-06-2004, 08:26 PM
Saw the boat several times this past weekend. Guys flew by us at going up to Topock. Boat was up there when we got up there and the guys were pretty young or looked it.
What time of day did this happen? In the evening running up towards site 6 at those speeds is crazy. You have the sun right in your face. I am sure he didn't see a boat coming out of a cove etc and caught it last minute. Regardless its just dumb to be running those speeds up that coast or any coast that time of day when everyone is sitting out in the water waiting to put them on the trailer. If a pontoon jumped out on him can you imangine what would have happened to the kid laying down on his standup.

Three Days Only
07-06-2004, 08:50 PM
Known of us where there and could not have made a judgement call like that unless you where behind the wheel.
I dont know why I am defending the speeding factor in this, most likely becasue I do the same thing all the time.
Someone mentioned do they have a school for Hi Speed Large Boats, Its called the Ocean, You will learn more about your boat after running it in the ocean, then you ever will on a lake. I feel extremely safe on the lake due to my ocean experience, I know exactly what my boat is going to do when it gets out of shape, and how to correct it. Out there it gets out of shape all the time, and you learn quick or you hook & roll, or stuff it. Two weekends ago we were running up around 115 in mixed up 2-4 afternoon windchop. A Nor-Tech was running over 120, its all driver experience. Knowing when to back off, and when to drop the sticks.
Whats done is done, we all just need to learn something from it, and take it for what it's worth. Lets let this be a lesson to all, it either that or the strong arm of the law is going to put a stop to all of what we go to Havasu for.

Three Days Only
07-06-2004, 09:04 PM
This was posted in the cats and tunnels section.
Kind of makes you think, he wasnt drunk .086, Im that way every day. .086 is like one or two drinks, who doesnt have that, and then drive home from dinner ocassionaly. Geez, thats only one good hard pull off a bottle of Goose.
Originally posted by margarita island
The guys name is Moe and he is a Snap- On dealer .His other boat was a f-26 and that last pic is him against his boat . He doesn't post on the boards. Said everyone is alright but boat is F$##ed. He did get a O.U.I. blew a .086 . He said the pantoon was headed toward him and at the last min the pantoon turned in to his path . He chose not to kill everyone on the pantoon, swerved to miss them and hooked the boat. The boat landed right side up and girls sreeming in the water . The expert captain of the pontoon left everyone floating with no life vests.NICE

Dusty Times
07-06-2004, 09:20 PM
Sounds like maybe the real drunk was in the pontoon boat.
Maybe thats why he fled the scene.
Don't know the facts. Just a guess and my .02

Wakker
07-06-2004, 11:23 PM
Originally posted by Three Days Only
Kind of makes you think, he wasnt drunk .086, Im that way every day. .086 is like one or two drinks, who doesnt have that, and then drive home from dinner ocassionaly. Geez, thats only one good hard pull off a bottle of Goose. Of course, and by .10 your even more sober, right?:rolleyes:

Kilrtoy
07-07-2004, 06:59 AM
105 mph is 140 ft per second
No you are wrong
it is 153.93 feet per second

Havasu_Dreamin
07-07-2004, 07:22 AM
Originally posted by UnionJack
How many time have you had too much (SUN) and then driven your boat back to the ramp?
Never. Don't drink when I'm out on the boat.

25 Eagle
07-07-2004, 07:30 AM
3DO keep your life insurance policy payed up.

Havasu_Dreamin
07-07-2004, 07:32 AM
Originally posted by Three Days Only
This was posted in the cats and tunnels section.
Kind of makes you think, he wasnt drunk .086, Im that way every day. .086 is like one or two drinks, who doesnt have that, and then drive home from dinner ocassionaly. Geez, thats only one good hard pull off a bottle of Goose.
Last time I checked anything above .08 was considered legally impaired so in the eyes of the law, yes, he was drunk. Everyone can debate the relevance of the .08 law all they want but in the eyes of the law he was drunk, plain and simple.

RiverDave
07-07-2004, 07:41 AM
Originally posted by Havasu_Dreamin
Last time I checked anything above .08 was considered legally impaired so in the eyes of the law, yes, he was drunk. Everyone can debate the relevance of the .08 law all they want but in the eyes of the law he was drunk, plain and simple.
Havasu_Dreamin, the law was set lower becuase as it turns out... Women can't drink. Not becuase "EVERYONE" is impaired at that level, but becuase "SOME" people are impaired at that level and the law for some reason has to be set at the lowest common denominator.
.08 isn't impaired for most people irregardless of what the law sais. Although you will hear officers that have listened to so many seminars saying that it is, they will even tell you that at .05!!! Your drunk off your ass!!
RD

Havasu_Dreamin
07-07-2004, 08:20 AM
Originally posted by RiverDave
Havasu_Dreamin, the law was set lower becuase as it turns out... Women can't drink. Not becuase "EVERYONE" is impaired at that level, but becuase "SOME" people are impaired at that level and the law for some reason has to be set at the lowest common denominator.
.08 isn't impaired for most people irregardless of what the law sais. Although you will hear officers that have listened to so many seminars saying that it is, they will even tell you that at .05!!! Your drunk off your ass!!
RD
Dave, I'm not about debate the merits, or lack of merits, of the .08 law. All I was trying to get across was that in the eys of the law he was drunk when someone said he was not. Whether the law is right or not is of no consequnce to the point I was making. The bottom line is the easiest way to avoid getting hooked up for OUI/DWI/BUI is to not drink and drive your boat. I will agree with you though Dave, an idiot uneducated boater is just as, and possibly more, dangerous than a boater who is at .08.

Jrocket
07-07-2004, 09:08 AM
Originally posted by RiverDave
Havasu_Dreamin, the law was set lower becuase as it turns out... Women can't drink. Not becuase "EVERYONE" is impaired at that level, but becuase "SOME" people are impaired at that level and the law for some reason has to be set at the lowest common denominator.
RD
Where did you get this?

Three Days Only
07-07-2004, 09:14 AM
Originally posted by Havasu_Dreamin
All I was trying to get across was that in the eys of the law he was drunk when someone said he was not.
.086 is not drunk, maybe slightly impaired, very differnt in my opinion. Out of everyone that has posted about this alcohol BS, how many of you actually drink zero amounts of alcohol out on the lake, I mean not even one beer!!!

WILDERTHANU
07-07-2004, 09:16 AM
Originally posted by Three Days Only
how many of you actually drink zero amounts of alcohol out on the lake, I mean not even one beer!!!
.....NOT ME...THATS FOR DAMN SURE!!!

al cole'holic
07-07-2004, 09:17 AM
Originally posted by Three Days Only
.086 is not drunk, maybe slightly impaired, very differnt in my opinion. Out of everyone that has posted about this alcohol BS, how many of you actually drink zero amounts of alcohol out on the lake, I mean not even one beer!!!
.086 is drunk as he said....

Jrocket
07-07-2004, 09:34 AM
Originally posted by Three Days Only
how many of you actually drink zero amounts of alcohol out on the lake, I mean not even one beer!!!
Me! When Im the driver,I dont drink even one beer.I cant risk it one bit.

Essex502
07-07-2004, 09:35 AM
Impaired is impaired no matter what else you call it such as "drunk". I know from the times I have had a drink or two out on the boat that it doesn't take much to affect the feel of the boat. Now, I almost always drink copious quantities of water while out and save the booze for later...Guess what...I'm never shortchanged on the booze - later.

Three Days Only
07-07-2004, 09:44 AM
Originally posted by hugh jascock
the problem here is not that the cats on havasu run over 100 mph. the problem is the speed diferential of all the boats on the water. when you get boats running vastly diferent speeds is when the probs occur.
Its not the speeds of the boat, its when im coming up 50-60 yards off your port side at 100, your traveling 60, and then you turn without looking over your shoulder to see if anyones coming. Its not the speeds, its the actions of the drivers in either boat. do you change lanes on the freeway with out checking your mirrors, people do that shit in boats all the time.
i personally dont like big boats on the lake running that fast, these boats belong in the ocean. You guys think your all macho running your 150,000 and up boats in a pond. grow some balls and go out in the ocean where all the technology you paid for was desighned to run.
Theres not that many large boats out there running over 100 mph. I can only think of a few large 34'+ cats that are out there every other weekend. If you consider a 29' cat too large and designed to be run in the ocean, your leaving back in the early 90's. The average size of the boats out there I would say is 23' -25'. My boat is much safer at 100+ then a 23 - 25' cat running those speeds so that just doesnt make sense. I dont think im Mr. Macho, and its guys like you that stereo type the people that own these large high dollar boats, just because we can afford them and choose to purchase them doesnt make us any better or differnt then you. Grow some balls, I got balls, and run in the ocean more then I run on the lake. What does it matter to you where I run my boat, You dont own it!!
if you wanna come to the lake then slow it down and respect the others that have as much right to the water as you.
All of a sudden big boats are bad, this is the first time, that I can remember one of these large cats wrecking on the lake. It seems all the accidents lately have been little slower boats, Jet boats, Pontoons boats, smaller V's. Lets really look back at what has occured out there, have you heard of any large cats killing anyone out there on the lake in years, I havent, and still havent. Alot of people sure have died the last couple of weeks, and they werent in large high dollar raceboats in sheeps clothing!!
you guys need to realize these are not PLEASURE BOATS, they are full on RACEBOATS with a few frills thrown in.
Mine is a pleasure boat, I dont race. a 36' cat is safer out on that lake then a 25' cat period. They take the water, and theres alot more boat around you if you get hit.
in a year or two you guys wont be able get insurance for these things and they will rot on the trailer just like what happened to muscle cars in the 70's.
As long as someone will issue me insurance, I will have insurance, I can afford to pay the higher rates. People that have 250K+ boats pay more, there boats worth more, and coverage is higher. Stastically there more accidents in smaller boats then large ones, only beacuse there are thousands of smaller boats for every large hi performance boat across the country.

Three Days Only
07-07-2004, 09:46 AM
Originally posted by Jrocket
Me! When Im the driver,I dont drink even one beer.I cant risk it one bit.
When did you get your DUI. HEHE LOL :D :D

Essex502
07-07-2004, 09:53 AM
Originally posted by Three Days Only
All of a sudden big boats are bad, this is the first time, that I can remember one of these large cats wrecking on the lake. It seems all the accidents lately have been little slower boats, Jet boats, Pontoons boats, smaller V's. Lets really look back at what has occured out there, have you heard of any large cats killing anyone out there on the lake in years, I havent, and still havent.
Wasn't the HTM 30 cat considered a large boat? Seems to me a couple of years ago it sank due to the actions of it's driver - not some other driver and boat. Killed all 4 aboard at the time.
Alot of people sure have died the last couple of weeks, and they werent in large high dollar raceboats in sheeps clothing!!
What do you define as "a lot of people"?

Three Days Only
07-07-2004, 09:55 AM
I got a BAC tester in my boat. I use it frequently to make sure im legal prior to driving my boat if I have been drinking. Only because when im legally impaired, I feel sober as can be. I would love to get everyone together, Drink one beer, or cocktail, wait 20 minutes and take your BAC. Most likely alot of you will blow .06 to .08, then you tell me if your legally drunk, or legally impaired. Impaired is a much better word. Im not arguing that fact that its illegal to be above .08, it is. But at .08 your no where near drunk. At .174 im pretty trashed. Boatfloatin blew a >.250 on my tester and he was really trashed, but not pukin, and still walkin.
You guys tell me when and where!!! I would love to see the outcome.

Three Days Only
07-07-2004, 10:01 AM
Originally posted by Essex502
Wasn't the HTM 30 cat considered a large boat? Seems to me a couple of years ago it sank due to the actions of it's driver - not some other driver and boat. Killed all 4 aboard at the time.
Im talking about lake havasu, and more about large offshore style cats. Theres been a few over the past couple years running in the ocean that have stuffed, or hook & rolled at excessive speed 130 - 170 mph. Im talking about the Lake, can you remeber any.
Not me!!
What do you define as "a lot of people"?
Anybody is alot of people, but the last couple of weeks, 1 person in front of crazy horse, 2 people down by steamboat, 1 person up on the river. I hear another in the channel, Every weekend there looking for bodies on that lake lately, and none of them where due to large offshore cats.

MagicMtnDan
07-07-2004, 10:03 AM
Originally posted by Three Days Only
...All of a sudden big boats are bad, this is the first time, that I can remember one of these large cats wrecking on the lake. It seems all the accidents lately have been little slower boats, Jet boats, Pontoons boats, smaller V's. Lets really look back at what has occured out there, have you heard of any large cats killing anyone out there on the lake in years, I havent, and still havent. Alot of people sure have died the last couple of weeks, and they werent in large high dollar raceboats in sheeps clothing!!
Sure, most accidents involve "little slower boats." That's because most boats are smaller and not as powerful as the big faster boats.
Debating alcohol use (for the umpteenth time) is unproductive. Alcohol use impairs the judgement of the driver who makes the mistake(s) that cause accidents. Those that drink risk more than their lives and the lives of those in their boats, they put everyone else on the water at risk.
If the boat operator has been consuming alcohol and is flying along at a high rate of speed late in the day when there's poor visibility (not to mention the question of judgement in regard to the location) he/she clearly is putting many others at risk. And based on what has been reported here these all contributed to the accident. Sure there may have been a UPB (Unidentified Pontoon Boat) but that's always a possibility on the water and the driver is responsible for controlling his craft while avoiding others.
<edit: removed duplicate word>

Pointerman
07-07-2004, 10:15 AM
Originally posted by Three Days Only
.086 is not drunk, maybe slightly impaired, very differnt in my opinion. Out of everyone that has posted about this alcohol BS, how many of you actually drink zero amounts of alcohol out on the lake, I mean not even one beer!!!
I don't. For that matter I never have a drink when I am out to dinner since I am generally driving my wife home. I don't drink ANY alchohol and drive my boat or car. I also don't get drunk, but that is another story all together.

Three Days Only
07-07-2004, 10:17 AM
Originally posted by MagicMtnDan
Sure, most accidents involve "little slower boats." That's because most boats are smaller and not as powerful as the big faster boats.
Debating alcohol use (for the umpteenth time) is unproductive. Alcohol use impairs the judgement of the driver who makes the mistake(s) that cause accidents. Those that drink risk more than their lives and the lives of those in their boats, they put everyone else on the water at risk.
If the boat operator has been consuming alcohol and is flying along at a high rate of speed late in the day when there's poor visibility (not to mention the question of judgement in regard to the location) he/she clearly is putting many others at risk. And based on what has been reported here these all contributed to the accident. Sure there may have been a UPB (Unidentified Pontoon Boat) but that's always a possibility on the water and the driver is responsible for controlling his craft while avoiding others.
<edit: removed duplicate word>
I agree with you 100%, There is no reason to drive any vechile impaired on any type of substance. Im not advocating to drink and drive, I just dont personally feel that this accident occured due to alcohol impairment, it was obviously a factor, and will be a the largest factor if he is prosicuted. I think the guy got scared and over reacted at the controls. but who really knows.
Before I dig a deeper grave then I already have. Im out. I was just giving my .02 and did not mean to offend anyone if I did.

572Daytona
07-07-2004, 10:21 AM
Originally posted by Three Days Only
Its not the speeds of the boat, its when im coming up 50-60 yards off your port side at 100, your traveling 60, and then you turn without looking over your shoulder to see if anyones coming. Its not the speeds, its the actions of the drivers in either boat. do you change lanes on the freeway with out checking your mirrors, people do that shit in boats all the time.
The navigation rules for boats and rules of the road for cars are not analogous When you are overtaking someone in a boat you are always the give way boat and you have the burden of steering clear. Most boats don't have mirrors, there are no defined lanes and there is no law that says a boater must look over his shoulder before changing directions.

Havasu_Dreamin
07-07-2004, 10:25 AM
Originally posted by Three Days Only
.086 is not drunk, maybe slightly impaired, very differnt in my opinion. Out of everyone that has posted about this alcohol BS, how many of you actually drink zero amounts of alcohol out on the lake, I mean not even one beer!!!
.086 is legally impaired in the eyes of the law. And yes, I drink ZERO alcohol when I'm out on the boat.

Desert Rat
07-07-2004, 10:25 AM
I guess this would be an F-36
http://www.blueangels.org/Aircraft/Hornets/bba10.jpg

RiverDave
07-07-2004, 10:28 AM
Originally posted by MagicMtnDan
Sure, most accidents involve "little slower boats." That's because most boats are smaller and not as powerful as the big faster boats.
Debating alcohol use (for the umpteenth time) is unproductive. Alcohol use impairs the judgement of the driver who makes the mistake(s) that cause accidents. Those that drink risk more than their lives and the lives of those in their boats, they put everyone else on the water at risk.
If the boat operator has been consuming alcohol and is flying along at a high rate of speed late in the day when there's poor visibility (not to mention the question of judgement in regard to the location) he/she clearly is putting many others at risk. And based on what has been reported here these all contributed to the accident. Sure there may have been a UPB (Unidentified Pontoon Boat) but that's always a possibility on the water and the driver is responsible for controlling his craft while avoiding others.
<edit: removed duplicate word>
Tell you what Dan... Let's do some Risk assesment here.
I won't be sitting in the drivers seat, but more or less driving my boat shitfaced drunk (standing next to and telling my DD for the night to please not run over the boat that's floating right in front of us)
And you and your whole family in a boat of your choice...
We'll run from Big Bend, to the Casino and back all night back and forth Saturday night of laborday weekend.
Garaunteed I'll survive the night.. will you? I wouldn't get into your boat if you paid me..
It ain't alcohol for the last time, it's common sense & experience.
The people that are getting killed @ dusk and at night 90% of the time are lacking in both. The other 10% is "usually" a convergence of extra oridnary circumstances that come together (sometimes caused by those mentioned above) at once ending badly.
RD

COELIMINATOR
07-07-2004, 11:25 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by RiverDave
[It ain't alcohol for the last time, it's common sense & experience.
RD, I have read many of your posts regarding alcohol. Your dedication in defense of said agenda is tenacious to say the least. My opinion is that common sense and experience should dictate that one only consume what one can without impairing ones judgement. Some people are unable to consume alcohol in even the smallest amounts without becoming impaired, henceforth causing poor judgement and slower reactions. Therefore alcohol IS a deciding factor if these people are boating.
RD, you could probably drink a substantial amout of alcohol and still be able to "boat" safely. In turn, many do not possess such abilities. To say alcohol "ain't it" is somewhat misleading. It is if it impairs your "common sense & experience". I am not trying to start an argument here, believe me I am not. Your statement is correct in at least the common sense & experience part. Sam

Larry Nebb
07-07-2004, 11:50 AM
I got arrested for drinking and driving (a car). I was flat out drunk no question. I blew a 0.81 and was shocked that it was that low as drunk as I felt.
Larry
BTW, I learned that night that the Redondo Beach PD will kick your ass if you ask for it just a little bit. :cry:

al cole'holic
07-07-2004, 11:55 AM
Originally posted by Larry Nebb
I got arrested for drinking and driving (a car). I was flat out drunk no question. I blew a 0.81 and was shocked that it was that low as drunk as I felt.
Larry
BTW, I learned that night that the Redondo Beach PD will kick your ass if you ask for it just a little bit. :cry:
..would .81 be considered dead?

RiverDave
07-07-2004, 11:55 AM
Originally posted by COELIMINATOR
[QUOTE]Originally posted by RiverDave
[It ain't alcohol for the last time, it's common sense & experience.
RD, I have read many of your posts regarding alcohol. Your dedication in defense of said agenda is tenacious to say the least. My opinion is that common sense and experience should dictate that one only consume what one can without impairing ones judgement. Some people are unable to consume alcohol in even the smallest amounts without becoming impaired, henceforth causing poor judgement and slower reactions. Therefore alcohol IS a deciding factor if these people are boating.
RD, you could probably drink a substantial amout of alcohol and still be able to "boat" safely. In turn, many do not possess such abilities. To say alcohol "ain't it" is somewhat misleading. It is if it impairs your "common sense & experience". I am not trying to start an argument here, believe me I am not. Your statement is correct in at least the common sense & experience part. Sam
I don't disagree with that at all.. It just seems like nowdays though even the smallest of BAC's are being blamed for the most idiotic of behaviors. that was the point I was trying to make.
RD

Larry Nebb
07-07-2004, 11:59 AM
Originally posted by al cole'holic
..would .81 be considered dead?
Opps, I still must be feeling it 12 years later.
That would have to be .081!

78Eliminator
07-07-2004, 12:01 PM
Originally posted by RiverDave
I don't disagree with that at all.. It just seems like nowdays though even the smallest of BAC's are being blamed for the most idiotic of behaviors. that was the point I was trying to make.
RD
Yep.
Alcohol made me do it.
The gun made me kill.
Drugs ruined my life.
The fast boat made me crash.
I don't know why, but as humans, we have a tendency to blame inanimate objects for all our woes. How about a little personal responsibility??

78Eliminator
07-07-2004, 12:02 PM
Originally posted by al cole'holic
..would .81 be considered dead?
From my understanding, and a little "investigative work" I had to do last Summer, .4 is dead......

mirvin
07-07-2004, 12:03 PM
Originally posted by 78Eliminator
Yep.
Alcohol made me do it.
The gun made me kill.
Drugs ruined my life.
The fast boat made me crash.
I don't know why, but as humans, we have a tendency to blame inanimate objects for all our woes. How about a little personal responsibility??
You are a tired old wh ore
mirvin;)

Larry Nebb
07-07-2004, 12:03 PM
Originally posted by 78Eliminator
Yep.
Alcohol made me do it.
The gun made me kill.
Drugs ruined my life.
The fast boat made me crash.
I don't know why, but as humans, we have a tendency to blame inanimate objects for all our woes. How about a little personal responsibility??
Dude, shouldn't you blame Ozzy for at least something?? :confused:
goin off the rails on the crazy train!

78Eliminator
07-07-2004, 12:05 PM
Originally posted by Larry Nebb
Dude, shouldn't you blame Ozzy for at least something?? :confused:
goin off the rails on the crazy train!
Sheesh, how could I forget that!? :D ;)
Ozzy made me do evil things to kittens and puppies......

Tom Brown
07-07-2004, 12:06 PM
Originally posted by RiverDave
It just seems like nowdays though even the smallest of BAC's are being blamed for the most idiotic of behaviors.
How many times do you have to watch your friends drink and get stupid before the link between alcohol and idiocy is made?

mirvin
07-07-2004, 12:06 PM
Originally posted by 78Eliminator
Sheesh, how could I forget that!? :D ;)
Ozzy made me do evil things to kittens and puppies......
Everytime you masterbate Ozzy kills a kitten.
mirvin;)

superdave013
07-07-2004, 12:07 PM
Originally posted by 78Eliminator
From my understanding, and a little "investigative work" I had to do last Summer, .4 is dead......
Not true, my friend's wife was over .4 and somehow got out of the hospital to try walk home. Along the way she broke into a house to steal more alcohol! My friend did say the doc could not believe it.
BTW, she did get caught and did over a year in the pokey. Seems that was not the first time she had done that!

78Eliminator
07-07-2004, 12:08 PM
Originally posted by mirvin
Everytime you masterbate Ozzy kills a kitten.
mirvin;)
That's a lot of dead kittens I have on my hands (no pun)....

mirvin
07-07-2004, 12:09 PM
Originally posted by 78Eliminator
That's a lot of dead kittens I have on my hands (no pun)....
Oh, the humanity.....
mirvin;)

78Eliminator
07-07-2004, 12:10 PM
Originally posted by superdave013
Not true, my friend's wife was over .4 and somehow got out of the hospital to try walk home. Along the way she broke into a house to steal more alcohol! My friend did say the doc could not believe it.
BTW, she did get caught and did over a year in the pokey. Seems that was not the first time she had done that!
No kidding? From what I read, anything over .35 and you are ready to get your stomach pumped. Maybe .5?
Let me look in to it again. I mean, if I find out the information on the net, it must be true, right? ;)

Tom Brown
07-07-2004, 12:12 PM
Originally posted by superdave013
Not true, my friend's wife was over .4 and somehow got out of the hospital to try walk home. Along the way she broke into a house to steal more alcohol!
What the hell kind of people are you hanging around with, Dave? :D

78Eliminator
07-07-2004, 12:15 PM
Here are some good statistics. Funny, I would have thought there would have been a lot more fatalities.
I am not saying that driving under the influence is not a bad thing, but there are a whole lot of things that kill people that probably deserve the same amount of attention...
http://www.hwysafety.org/safety_facts/fatality_facts/alcohol.htm

Seadog
07-07-2004, 12:20 PM
Anyone that operates any machinery after drinking, is being stupid. Even if you blow .079, you are not going to get away with anything. Civil court doesn't give a hoot about .080. To say you are not impaired with just a beer or two, is like saying that weed doesn't impair your driving. It makes for great fiction, but the only people that believe it are those who are looking for a reason to deny reality.
As for the accident, it sounds like there were two drivers who could use a remedial boating course. The past few years, I have gone from being blase' on the subject, to being militant about wanting mandatory training and licensing. At the very least, it would stop a bunch of the rental boats/PWCs fom being out there without a clue how to operate them. Can you imagine what the roads would be like if kids were allowed to rent 1000cc bikes without a driver's license?

78Eliminator
07-07-2004, 12:24 PM
SuperDave, you are wrong. Here is another fact sheet that states that "BACs higher that .40 cause death."
http://www.syndistar.com/product_media/pdfs/pbda90.pdf
Now, they didn't say they always cause death, but usually they do.
Alcohol also kills 100,000 peple every year. Pretty crazy. I have never heard of marijuana killing anyone, and that is illegal....
Time for more research.

dossangers
07-07-2004, 12:24 PM
Originally posted by RiverDave
I don't disagree with that at all.. It just seems like nowdays though even the smallest of BAC's are being blamed for the most idiotic of behaviors. that was the point I was trying to make.
RD What a bunch of SHIT! why try and justify drinking and driving? Why is it that when something bad happens boat accident,bar fight, car accident, sand bar fight alcohols always present? commen sense and judgement go out the window with alcohol no matter how little you drink! I dont give a SHIT how good of a boat driver you are and how many times you have gone up and down the river you need all your facultys!!! STAND UP AND BE A MAN DONT ****ING DRINK AND DRIVE AT ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If i see sombody out of control ill turn them in!!!! you can bank on it!!! thats all i have to say.

Essex502
07-07-2004, 12:28 PM
Originally posted by 78Eliminator
Yep.
Alcohol made me do it.
The gun made me kill.
Drugs ruined my life.
The fast boat made me crash.
I don't know why, but as humans, we have a tendency to blame inanimate objects for all our woes. How about a little personal responsibility??
Personal responsibility:
Don't pour that beer down your throat or take another hit off of the beer bong.
Don't pick up the gun when you're pissed-off and pull the trigger (unless it's pointed at your own head).
Don't shoot up in the men's room or take that snort of powder.
Practice safe boating and furthermore - quit giving sympathy to the misguided that think it is alright to mix any kind of intoxicant and machinery.
no offense to you intended.

78Eliminator
07-07-2004, 12:33 PM
Originally posted by Essex502
Personal responsibility:
Don't pour that beer down your throat or take another hit off of the beer bong.
Don't pick up the gun when you're pissed-off and pull the trigger (unless it's pointed at your own head).
Don't shoot up in the men's room or take that snort of powder.
Practice safe boating and furthermore - quit giving sympathy to the misguided that think it is alright to mix any kind of intoxicant and machinery.
no offense to you intended.
No offense? Why would I take offense when I agree with you? I don't think you get my point. My point is, blame the person, not the vice. Responsible drinking is not drinking and driving. That was my point.
But things like banning guns, and staring militias and limiting personal freedoms based on the idiot decisions people make LIKE GETTING BEHIND THE WHEEL DRUNK, are wrong. I guess I didn't come across like I wanted to.....

COELIMINATOR
07-07-2004, 12:34 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by RiverDave
[B]I don't disagree with that at all.. It just seems like nowdays though even the smallest of BAC's are being blamed for the most idiotic of behaviors. that was the point I was trying to make.
RD, I concur. On the other hand, you have to agree when one is shall we say "mentally challanged", and alcohol is consumed, the level of common sense drastically diminishes. Some should really consider abstaining from alcohol completely. I myself don't drink, therefore eliminating the possibility of diminished reactions. I need all my "facutlies" intact, not impaired. Sam

superdave013
07-07-2004, 12:35 PM
Originally posted by 78Eliminator
SuperDave, you are wrong. Here is another fact sheet that states that "BACs higher that .40 cause death."
http://www.syndistar.com/product_media/pdfs/pbda90.pdf
Now, they didn't say they always cause death, but usually they do.
Alcohol also kills 100,000 peple every year. Pretty crazy. I have never heard of marijuana killing anyone, and that is illegal....
Time for more research.
I not sayin you are wrong. She got taken there to get her stomach pumped before the night stay in the clink. But she did walk out of there on her own steam and she is still alive and kicking today.
Did over a year in the clink with no drink. Frist day out she got hammered! I don't know how or why my friend stays with her.

Tom Brown
07-07-2004, 12:38 PM
Originally posted by superdave013
I don't know how or why my friend stays with her.
Maybe she thinks semen is an intoxicant?

78Eliminator
07-07-2004, 12:39 PM
Originally posted by superdave013
I not sayin you are wrong. She got taken there to get her stomach pumped before the night stay in the clink. But she did walk out of there on her own steam and she is still alive and kicking today.
Did over a year in the clink with no drink. Frist day out she got hammered! I don't know how or why my friend stays with her.
That is awful. She is going to die if she keeps that up, or make your friend insane.
There is also information that states that people who drink on a regular basis have learning disabilities and do not grow mentally during times where alcohol is consumed on more than one occasion every week.

Essex502
07-07-2004, 01:01 PM
Originally posted by 78Eliminator
No offense? Why would I take offense when I agree with you? I don't think you get my point. My point is, blame the person, not the vice. Responsible drinking is not drinking and driving. That was my point.
But things like banning guns, and staring militias and limiting personal freedoms based on the idiot decisions people make LIKE GETTING BEHIND THE WHEEL DRUNK, are wrong. I guess I didn't come across like I wanted to.....
Actually, we agree completely. I am all for responsible use of alcohol and firearms. As a society we have let the lawyers run our lives to the point that personal freedoms are being taken away from responsible people BECAUSE of the irresponsible people. My belief is that when you misuse a right such as drinking alcohol or the use of a fiream then society should come down on your head like a ton of bricks. Much harsher penalties for the misuse rather than preventing the responsible use of these things.

Jrocket
07-07-2004, 01:06 PM
Originally posted by Essex502
Wasn't the HTM 30 cat considered a large boat? Seems to me a couple of years ago it sank due to the actions of it's driver - not some other driver and boat. Killed all 4 aboard at the time.
Was it the drivers actions or mechanical failure?

Jrocket
07-07-2004, 01:09 PM
Originally posted by Three Days Only
When did you get your DUI. HEHE LOL :D :D
Cant risk throwing away a career and good money for one beer.Plus one beer will put my little ass way over the limit! LOL:D

Essex502
07-07-2004, 01:11 PM
Originally posted by Jrocket
Was it the drivers actions or mechanical failure?
4 persons are dead due to the driver's actions. Period. No seats. No safety equipment. No safety personnel at all. Grossly excessive speeds on a small lake. Mechanical failure occurs in extreme endeavors. Smart test drivers or pilots plan the best they can for Murphy to rear his ugly face. This driver did not. Criminally negligent in my opinion. Since he's dead society can't punish him for his actions.

superdave013
07-07-2004, 01:11 PM
Originally posted by Jrocket
Was it the drivers actions or mechanical failure?
C'Mon, no life jackets / helmets and trying to bust 150mph. I would say that's driver error!

Essex502
07-07-2004, 01:12 PM
Amen.

RiverToysJas
07-07-2004, 01:13 PM
Originally posted by Jrocket
Was it the drivers actions or mechanical failure?
The Castaic incident was mechanical failure, combined with an improperly rigged boat, combined with and to a lessor degree, adverse weather conditions.
RTJas

superdave013
07-07-2004, 01:14 PM
Originally posted by Essex502
Criminally negligent in my opinion. Since he's dead society can't punish him for his actions.
In this case we are getting punshed by a big lawsuite against just about every company that had a part on the boat!

RiverToysJas
07-07-2004, 01:16 PM
Originally posted by superdave013
C'Mon, no life jackets / helmets and trying to bust 150mph. I would say that's driver error!
I totally agree they should have had them, there's no doubt, but in that case those things probably wouldn't have done anything but keep the body parts at the surface. Remember they hooked so hard, both engines went through the side of the boat!!!! :eek: They didn't have much of a chance under all the conditions they were in (boat's mechanical condition, they're safety equipment, and the weather). But that's just my opinion.
RTJas

Jrocket
07-07-2004, 01:17 PM
Originally posted by Essex502
4 persons are dead due to the driver's actions. Period. No seats. No safety equipment. No safety personnel at all. Grossly excessive speeds on a small lake. Mechanical failure occurs in extreme endeavors. Smart test drivers or pilots plan the best they can for Murphy to rear his ugly face. This driver did not. Criminally negligent in my opinion. Since he's dead society can't punish him for his actions.
Sad that 4 people did die,but nobody made them get into that boat.Still no evidence of what actually caused the crash.I wouldnt say Steve was to blame for it but thats my opinion.I do think it was wrong to have no lifeline jackets,safety equipment and interior in the boat but the people that got in there did it at the own free will.Nobody knows what really happened but Steve himself.

Essex502
07-07-2004, 01:17 PM
Originally posted by RiverToysJas
The Castaic incident was mechanical failure, combined with an improperly rigged boat, combined with and to a lessor degree, adverse weather conditions.
RTJas
Call it what you like, but the real cause was grossly bad judgement by the owner/driver for taking 3 people along on such a "cruise". Testing a new ANYTHING should be done in a controlled environment - not with passengers.

Essex502
07-07-2004, 01:19 PM
Originally posted by superdave013
In this case we are getting punshed by a big lawsuite against just about every company that had a part on the boat!
Yep, we'll be paying via increased boater's insurance, higher prices for the items sold by the litigated companies or through our taxes for many years to come. The maggots that crawl out from under a rock to champion a lawsuit or lawsuits like these make me sick.

Jrocket
07-07-2004, 01:21 PM
Originally posted by superdave013
C'Mon, no life jackets / helmets and trying to bust 150mph. I would say that's driver error!
How is that the drivers fault if everyone got in the boat on their own free will.You cant tell me that Steve forced them into the boat!They knew why the boat was there.Too get top speed numbers.

Essex502
07-07-2004, 01:21 PM
Originally posted by Jrocket
Sad that 4 people did die,but nobody made them get into that boat.Still no evidence of what actually caused the crash.I wouldnt say Steve was to blame for it but thats my opinion.I do think it was wrong to have no lifeline jackets,safety equipment and interior in the boat but the people that got in there did it at the own free will.Nobody knows what really happened but Steve himself.
The captain of a vessel is responsible for the safety of his passengers. In this case the driver/owner neglected his duty to his passengers. How is he NOT responsible?

mirvin
07-07-2004, 01:22 PM
Originally posted by Essex502
Yep, we'll be paying via increased boater's insurance, higher prices for the items sold by the litigated companies or through our taxes for many years to come. The maggots that crawl out from under a rock to champion a lawsuit or lawsuits like these make me sick.
You mean like Senator Edwards??
mirvin;)

Essex502
07-07-2004, 01:23 PM
Originally posted by Jrocket
How is that the drivers fault if everyone got in the boat on their own free will.You cant tell me that Steve forced them into the boat!They knew why the boat was there.Too get top speed numbers.
I would agree that the passengers do, indeed, share in the responsibility but the driver is not less responsible for their decisions.

superdave013
07-07-2004, 01:23 PM
Originally posted by Essex502
The captain of a vessel is responsible for the safety of his passengers. In this case the driver/owner neglected his duty to his passengers. How is he NOT responsible?
Really the registered owner is responsible. Trust me, I went to court because I was sitting in a lawn chair while my bone head friend was causing trouble in my boat.

Essex502
07-07-2004, 01:24 PM
Originally posted by mirvin
You mean like Senator Edwards??
mirvin;)
I can't comment on Edwards' lawsuits as I have no knowledge of them.

Essex502
07-07-2004, 01:24 PM
Originally posted by superdave013
Really the registered owner is responsible. Trust me, I went to court because I was sitting in a lawn chair while my bone head friend was causing trouble in my boat.
In the HTM case the register owner was the legal owner and the driver rolled into one.

mirvin
07-07-2004, 01:25 PM
Originally posted by Essex502
I can't comment on Edwards' lawsuits as I have no knowledge of them.
Look into it. Very interesting. Ambulance chaser at it's finest. Except he sued the doctors. I think he holds his states record for jury award in a malpractice suit. Something like 25 million dollars.......
mirvin;)

Jrocket
07-07-2004, 01:26 PM
Originally posted by Essex502
The captain of a vessel is responsible for the safety of his passengers. In this case the driver/owner neglected his duty to his passengers. How is he NOT responsible?
All Im saying is that NOBODY forced them into the boat.Wasnt it mechanical failure that casued the crash,not driver error?

superdave013
07-07-2004, 01:28 PM
Originally posted by Jrocket
How is that the drivers fault if everyone got in the boat on their own free will.You cant tell me that Steve forced them into the boat!They knew why the boat was there.Too get top speed numbers.
Just because they were fools still does not make it not the registered owner's fault.
And yes they did know why the boat was there that day. Schiada96 and I both told one of them he was going to get killed the day before it happened.

mirvin
07-07-2004, 01:28 PM
Originally posted by Jrocket
All Im saying is that NOBODY forced them into the boat.Wasnt it mechanical failure that casued the crash,not driver error?
It seems like the driver's error was to load an unsafe boat in an unsafe environment and then attemp unsafe speeds in an untested machine.
If the machine broke, I'd blame the driver for putting me in that situation.
mirvin;)

78Eliminator
07-07-2004, 01:30 PM
Originally posted by mirvin
If the machine broke, I'd blame the driver for putting me in that situation.
mirvin;)
Note to self: No boat rides for Mirvin.......

uclahater
07-07-2004, 01:31 PM
Originally posted by dossangers
What a bunch of SHIT! why try and justify drinking and driving? Why is it that when something bad happens boat accident,bar fight, car accident, sand bar fight alcohols always present? commen sense and judgement go out the window with alcohol no matter how little you drink! I dont give a SHIT how good of a boat driver you are and how many times you have gone up and down the river you need all your facultys!!! STAND UP AND BE A MAN DONT ****ING DRINK AND DRIVE AT ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If i see sombody out of control ill turn them in!!!! you can bank on it!!! thats all i have to say.
I was thinken the same thing:cool:
Rd Why do you defend drinking and driving a boat to the umpth degree:confused: What is so hard about being a responsible boat owner and having a designated driver, and that doesnt mean anybody. It needs to be someone who knows how to drive a boat:)
I understand that the only way most boaters have fun at the river these days includes drinking:(, but theres still some of us who enjoy taking our families out to wakeboard waterski and float,without drinking:cool: I would bet that 70% of the boats that come into the ramp at the end of the day have an intoxicated driver:mad:
Are there plenty of sober dip shits you bet:mad: but defending alcohol and thinking you drive just as good impaired is just stupid
Just my .02

Essex502
07-07-2004, 01:31 PM
Originally posted by mirvin
Look into it. Very interesting. Ambulance chaser at it's finest. Except he sued the doctors. I think he holds his states record for jury award in a malpractice suit. Something like 25 million dollars.......
mirvin;)
"Edwards became one of America's wealthiest trial lawyers by winning record jury verdicts and settlements in cases alleging that the botched treatment of women in labor and their deliveries caused infants to develop cerebral palsy, a brain disorder that causes motor function impairment and lifelong disability.
Although he was involved in other types of personal injury litigation, Edwards specialized in infant cerebral palsy and brain damage cases during his early days as a trial lawyer and with the Raleigh, N.C., firm of Edwards & Kirby"
Just a tidbit.

al cole'holic
07-07-2004, 01:31 PM
Originally posted by Essex502
...The maggots that crawl out from under a rock to champion a lawsuit or lawsuits like these make me sick.
..until your entire family is wiped out, I would like to see what kind of maggot you would turn into.

Jrocket
07-07-2004, 01:32 PM
Originally posted by Essex502
I would agree that the passengers do, indeed, share in the responsibility but the driver is not less responsible for their decisions.
I do unerstand what you are saying.In my boat I make sure that everyone has a vest and all my safety stuff is up to par,but in this situation,the 4 people wanted to go along to see what it could do.They knew what they were getting into is all Im getting at.I wouldnt of put one foot in that boat that day.Even if the boat had full safety gear and lifelines I would of backed down.Not while testing.steve was nown for pushing the limits on his boats,Im betting the passengers already knew that when they jumped in.
Sadly enough things went wrong and yes to some point we might all pay for it in the end.

superdave013
07-07-2004, 01:32 PM
Originally posted by Jrocket
All Im saying is that NOBODY forced them into the boat.Wasnt it mechanical failure that casued the crash,not driver error?
So you seem to know alot about this crash. What failed and what are your sources for this info?
Seems to me it was a racing mishap. Just like a tire going down at Daytona or driver error at Bristol. But that time it was not at a race track.

Essex502
07-07-2004, 01:33 PM
Originally posted by Jrocket
All Im saying is that NOBODY forced them into the boat.Wasnt it mechanical failure that casued the crash,not driver error?
I don't know nor does anyone else that the 'cause' of the crash was definitely mechanical failure but the 'cause' of the 4 deaths was driver error or negligence if you like.

mirvin
07-07-2004, 01:35 PM
Originally posted by 78Eliminator
Note to self: No boat rides for Mirvin.......
Let's not be hasty now........:D
Got that Sanger ready? You put a co-pilot seat for me right?
mirvin;) ;)

Essex502
07-07-2004, 01:35 PM
Originally posted by al cole'holic
..until your entire family is wiped out, I would like to see what kind of maggot you would turn into.
If my entire family were wiped out it would be only my wife and I and then I really wouldn't care much, now would I, since I'd be pushing up daisies.
What I am talking about is the ambulance chasing, BS lawsuits such as the HTM suits against GM, IMCO, et.al....
There are good and bad in every profession - include the law profession.

al cole'holic
07-07-2004, 01:38 PM
Originally posted by Essex502
If my entire family were wiped out it would be only my wife and I and then I really wouldn't care much, now would I, since I'd be pushing up daisies.
What I am talking about is the abulance chasing, BS lawsuits such as the HTM suits against GM, IMCO, et.al....
There are good and bad in every profession - include the law profession.
..my bad Essex, thought you were pointing that statement at the widow's left behind and the lawsuits they had against HTM. I really should not be in here talking about a) a lawsuit, and b) HTM...considering my current dilemna :eek:

Jrocket
07-07-2004, 01:39 PM
Originally posted by superdave013
Just because they were fools still does not make it not the registered owner's fault.
Two ways to look at it I guess.I just cant see saying,this is ALL Steves fault.If you shoose to take the risk and know down right that there is a huge factor of death in it then the blame should be on your own shoulders.
Im not hear to argue with anybody,just looking at it from both anlges is all.

bonesfab
07-07-2004, 01:41 PM
IT ALL COMES DOWN TO THE MOST BASIC PRINCIPAL.. STUPID PEOPLE SHOULDN'T BREED. AS FAR AS ALCOHAL, IT CAUSES AL SORTS OF PROBLEMS( PREGNANCY, JAIL TIME, HOUSE, MARRIAGE, ETC., ETC.,) YOU GET THE POINT.:D

superdave013
07-07-2004, 01:42 PM
Ok, I can go along with the fact that they knew what they were getting into.
BTW, you still did not answer the real question I have.

Jrocket
07-07-2004, 01:42 PM
Originally posted by superdave013
So you seem to know alot about this crash. What failed and what are your sources for this info?
Seems to me it was a racing mishap. Just like a tire going down at Daytona or driver error at Bristol. But that time it was not at a race track.
Ill keep my info to myself Dave.Ill just say it was a bad day for the families and leave it at that.
BTW,whats up with these fittings your try to push on us? PM me about it.

Essex502
07-07-2004, 01:42 PM
Originally posted by al cole'holic
..my bad Essex, thought you were pointing that statement at the widow's left behind and the lawsuits they had against HTM. I really should not be in here talking about a) a lawsuit, and b) HTM...considering my current dilemna :eek:
Well I don't think the husbands who died would agree with the widows suing the entities that are being sued...I was only talking about cockroach attornies.

78Eliminator
07-07-2004, 01:43 PM
Originally posted by mirvin
Let's not be hasty now........:D
Got that Sanger ready? You put a co-pilot seat for me right?
mirvin;) ;)
I am working something out that might get it ready sooner than later......

al cole'holic
07-07-2004, 01:43 PM
Originally posted by bonesfab
..AS FAR AS ALCOHAL, IT CAUSES AL SORTS OF PROBLEMS( PREGNANCY, JAIL TIME, HOUSE, MARRIAGE, ETC., ETC.,) YOU GET THE POINT.:D
This has to be the most brilliant statement of the week! :D :D

superdave013
07-07-2004, 01:48 PM
Originally posted by Jrocket
Ill keep my info to myself Dave.Ill just say it was a bad day for the families and leave it at that.
BTW,whats up with these fittings your try to push on us? PM me about it.
You sure you have a DCB and not a Skater? You sure are skating around the meat on this one. lol
My fittings are not push ons, they are re-useable compression fittings. :)
I'll PM you in a sec.

bonesfab
07-07-2004, 01:49 PM
WHY THANK YOU!!!!:D

al cole'holic
07-07-2004, 01:50 PM
Originally posted by bonesfab
WHY THANK YOU!!!!:D
..when are we gonna realize it's just plain B A D :D

superdave013
07-07-2004, 01:51 PM
Originally posted by Essex502
Well I don't think the husbands who died would agree with the widows suing the entities that are being sued...I was only talking about cockroach attornies.
My wife and I have talked about that very thing. I don't think she would sue anyway. But I wanted her to know that if I get killed doing some of stuff I do that it was my own doing. She agreed and then got me signed up for 1/2 mil of life insurance. :confused:

BROS&HOS
07-07-2004, 01:52 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jrocket
[B]Ill keep my info to myself Dave.Ill just say it was a bad day for the families and leave it at that.
Jrocket and myself must have known or talked to some of the same poeple. Steve was an awesome builder, they lost there head mechanic, the guy that was buying the boat and I'm not sure about the 4th. Was a bad day for the west coast boat builders.
Nobody will know, I beleive the boat was never recovered per Steve's wife's request.
An old time boat builder once told me a story about conventional boat building methods not being able to withstand the high horse power and speeds well above 100 mph. Can the standard glass handle the friction at those speeds and not come apart?
Why do they race boats for only a season or maybe two and build a new hull? Maybe there falling apart? Don't know, just one theory from an old time building.
That might be why all the big boys are using Kevlar.

prosthogod
07-07-2004, 01:54 PM
Everyone wants to talk about drinking and driving when you are all missing thePOINT. THOSE DCBs ARE PRONE TO ROLL OVER. WE ALL KNOW IT. AM I THE ONLY ONE WHO IS WILLING TO SAY IT OUT LOUD!:D

copperrat20
07-07-2004, 01:56 PM
The fiberglass can hold alot friction at high speeds depending on how thick it is. Also bulkhead thickness plays a large part in hull flex. Larger boat companys are going to a method of building where you vacuum bag the boat in the mold while it is wet to draw all of the air out of the glass and resin. Toolmakers have been doing that for a long time. Boat manufactures are just getting into it - mainly I think because of the price. It costs alot of money to make the bags and wrap the boats.

superdave013
07-07-2004, 01:58 PM
Originally posted by BROS&HOS
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jrocket
[B]Ill keep my info to myself Dave.Ill just say it was a bad day for the families and leave it at that.
Jrocket and myself must have known or talked to some of the same poeple. Steve was an awesome builder, they lost there head mechanic, the guy that was buying the boat and I'm not sure about the 4th. Was a bad day for the west coast boat builders.
Nobody will know, I beleive the boat was never recovered per Steve's wife's request.
An old time boat builder once told me a story about conventional boat building methods not being able to withstand the high horse power and speeds well above 100 mph. Can the standard glass handle the friction at those speeds and not come apart?
Why do they race boats for only a season or maybe two and build a new hull? Maybe there falling apart? Don't know, just one theory from an old time building.
That might be why all the big boys are using Kevlar.
That's full of shit.
They did get the boat. Had pics of it and a blown engine on the ramp in the local paper.
Race boats for only one season? There are lots of 25 year old S.S. , GN, K boats and drag boats running these days.
BTW, the 4th guy was Chuck Wiesman. He posted here as MR PumpsHTM. Seemed like a real nice guy.

Essex502
07-07-2004, 02:08 PM
Originally posted by superdave013
My wife and I have talked about that very thing. I don't think she would sue anyway. But I wanted her to know that if I get killed doing some of stuff I do that it was my own doing. She agreed and then got me signed up for 1/2 mil of life insurance. :confused:
My wife and I have the same opinion...I am heavily insured!

Havasu_Dreamin
07-07-2004, 02:13 PM
Originally posted by RiverToysJas
Remember they hooked so hard, both engines went through the side of the boat!!!! :eek:
RTJas
I hate to bring this ugly and tragic incident up again but has this been proven?

Essex502
07-07-2004, 02:18 PM
Originally posted by BROS&HOS
An old time boat builder once told me a story about conventional boat building methods not being able to withstand the high horse power and speeds well above 100 mph. Can the standard glass handle the friction at those speeds and not come apart?
Why do they race boats for only a season or maybe two and build a new hull? Maybe there falling apart? Don't know, just one theory from an old time building.
That might be why all the big boys are using Kevlar.
When a race team changes hulls it's probably due to "constant innovation" required to be competitive. The less competitive teams reuse their hulls until they can afford to change.
What were the materials used in the Miss Budweiser boat that went over 200 mph? Fibreglass? I don't think the materials come into play at these speeds but more the design and methodology of the build process. The excellent race teams use FEA and Fluiddyanmics analysis to validate their design long before the hull goes into the water.

RiverToysJas
07-07-2004, 02:19 PM
Yes, I just happened to talk to Greg Shoemaker shortly after he and other "experts" exmined the parts collected from the HTM accident.
I can't remember the details, but he said they found the exact source of the machanical failure. It was driveline failure on one side if I remember right. There were many other issues though, like improper motor mounts that contributed.
Also the photos of the photo clearly showed the holes made by the motors departing.
RTJas

Essex502
07-07-2004, 02:19 PM
Originally posted by Havasu_Dreamin
I hate to bring this ugly and tragic incident up again but has this been proven?
The picture I remember from the L.A. Times ...one motor was still in the boat and the other was at the bottom of the lake and still is sitting there.

Three Days Only
07-07-2004, 02:37 PM
Originally posted by Essex502
The picture I remember from the L.A. Times ...one motor was still in the boat and the other was at the bottom of the lake and still is sitting there.
That is the truth, One motor was in the boat, and the other is still at the bottom of the lake.

copperrat20
07-07-2004, 02:38 PM
Originally posted by Three Days Only
That is the truth, One motor was in the boat, and the other is still at the bottom of the lake.
Which lake? I'll split it with you! :D

Three Days Only
07-07-2004, 02:58 PM
Castaic Lake, good luck getting it up. Its in some pretty deep water. You would need to get some commercial divers to go down to hook it up with float bags. It was a nice motor though!!

copperrat20
07-07-2004, 03:05 PM
[True. My wife recounted a story about an ER patient that was brought in by the police for being drunk. He was .43. He was there all night and at 8am, decided he was going home. The police were there on an unrelated event, saw him trying to get into his g/f's car to drive home and told him he was under arrest. He fought with them and they busted his skull. He was readmitted to the ER and was still .21. [/QUOTE]
F**kin idiot!:yuk:

77charger
07-07-2004, 03:33 PM
Add alcohol and the post grow big.I agree .086 most will not feel it at all but the key word here is that you are over .08 there fore you are legally impaired no matter what according to the law.I have been caught at .09 and was taken away even though i was not buzzed but no matter what i was over the limit legally.
.05 and up is up to the officer to determine if you are impaired so if you had even one beer(and you are for sure under .08) i think shut up and just listen to the officer.Then when you get let off for whatever you were stopped for start the bitchen when he can no lomger hear you:D .

77charger
07-07-2004, 03:41 PM
Originally posted by Three Days Only
I got a BAC tester in my boat. I use it frequently to make sure im legal prior to driving my boat if I have been drinking. Only because when im legally impaired, I feel sober as can be. I would love to get everyone together, Drink one beer, or cocktail, wait 20 minutes and take your BAC. Most likely alot of you will blow .06 to .08, then you tell me if your legally drunk, or legally impaired. Impaired is a much better word. Im not arguing that fact that its illegal to be above .08, it is. But at .08 your no where near drunk. At .174 im pretty trashed. Boatfloatin blew a >.250 on my tester and he was really trashed, but not pukin, and still walkin.
You guys tell me when and where!!! I would love to see the outcome. You buyin ?tell me when i,ll be there:D

RiverToysJas
07-07-2004, 03:45 PM
Originally posted by 77charger
You buyin ?tell me when i,ll be there:D
We can do it at Speedzone, and then drive the Slicktrack!!! :D
RTJas :D

77charger
07-07-2004, 03:48 PM
Originally posted by RiverToysJas
We can do it at Speedzone, and then drive the Slicktrack!!! :D
RTJas :D We havent done that in a while when we going?

al cole'holic
07-07-2004, 05:52 PM
Originally posted by Three Days Only
That is the truth, One motor was in the boat, and the other is still at the bottom of the lake.
...I don't think there is a motor at the bottom of the lake.

73kona455
07-07-2004, 06:18 PM
Originally posted by Three Days Only
how many of you actually drink zero amounts of alcohol out on the lake, I mean not even one beer!!!
I dont....

J540
07-07-2004, 08:40 PM
Originally posted by Three Days Only
That is the truth, One motor was in the boat, and the other is still at the bottom of the lake.
Hay 3DO
the motor mite have been in it at the lake, but when i took pics of it at the tow yard right around the corner from (The Blower Shop) the motor was on the ground, and one valve cover had a hole in it from something hitting it i think. was'nt much left of the transom, drives were all F,ed up, iam trying to find the pics,
Hope to see some of those 130 mph runs on the way to topock:D I will be MIA. next two weeks, lost a lifter on the in, #2 cyl, oh yah cam too ;) ohwell 500gl+, just this yr,of fuel 15lbs boost,not to bad i dont think.:D but SHE will be back in two weeks sounding good as always.:D here a pic, roller pieces:D

Dr. Eagle
07-07-2004, 08:44 PM
Originally posted by 73kona455
I dont....
Me either... not a drop...

J540
07-07-2004, 09:01 PM
doing more want to see how this comes outhttp://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1062116-1629_IMG-med.JPG http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/506/1062116-1630_IMG-med.JPG

BoatFloating
07-07-2004, 09:14 PM
Originally posted by MagicMtnDan
Debating alcohol use (for the umpteenth time) is unproductive. Alcohol use impairs the judgement of the driver who makes the mistake(s) that cause accidents. Those that drink risk more than their lives and the lives of those in their boats, they put everyone else on the water at risk.
So why is it .08 and not .02 or.00. Nobody is perfect and the law is vague. You have 2 glasses of wine at dinner and you drive home and a guy runs out in front of your car and you kill him you tell me who's at fault?

Goodtime$
07-07-2004, 09:21 PM
Is that boat a complete insurance total? or can it be fixed?
i have no idea about these things with boats.
thanks
its a shame to see such a beautiful boat in that state. wow $$F34

superdave013
07-07-2004, 09:36 PM
Originally posted by J540
Hay 3DO
the motor mite have been in it at the lake, but when i took pics of it at the tow yard right around the corner from (The Blower Shop) the motor was on the ground, and one valve cover had a hole in it from something hitting it i think. was'nt much left of the transom, drives were all F,ed up, iam trying to find the pics,
Hope to see some of those 130 mph runs on the way to topock:D I will be MIA. next two weeks, lost a lifter on the in, #2 cyl, oh yah cam too ;) ohwell 500gl+, just this yr,of fuel 15lbs boost,not to bad i dont think.:D but SHE will be back in two weeks sounding good as always.:D here a pic, roller pieces:D
Now that sounds more like the pics I saw. The boat at the ramp and an engine on the ground at the ramp with a cop standing next to it. I can't remember the other engine for sure but I'm thinkin it was in the boat. Could very well be wrong about that one though.

bigkatboat
07-07-2004, 10:08 PM
Forget the BOOZE, and the BOAT DESIGN! Doesn't this tell all of us to THINK about WHERE AND WHEN we go FAST???? If I am running at (any) speed 50 feet off shore, could any boat , come out of a cove and 'block' my progress? Please "into the wayback machine" with me. Back in the 70's EVERYBODY wanted to get "right next to me" and race on the river. I always moved away, because lot's of mechanical problems happened, and boats would 'just turn' and cause an accident. We were so close at times that I could "touch" HIS girlfriend's BOOBS when we left. I would not go because I know that "S^#T" happens and always to me. We ALL need to think about what this HOT BOAT deal is to us and our families! You can be a "dead hero", or a "live party monster", it's up to you/us! YOU NEED ROOM TO GO FAST! 4th of July Havasu has NO ROOM! WHY GO FAST FOR NO REASON? Go out on Tuesday, or? Please yourself, don't showoff. If you are not happy "rockin' your boat" for your self, (in your own cove) then does it matter what we think???? I have met a number of GREAT people here, and I pray that they are safe, in their boating. I also hope that you all ENJOY your boating on the river! Leave yourself plenty of room!! You deserve it!

cigarette1
07-07-2004, 10:24 PM
Fu@k It ... I'm running from Newport Harbor to San Diego tomorrow morning with about 9 other responsible OFFSHORE powerboaters... dazz right, offshore in the ocean ... with Jaws and whatever other wildlife is out there. We got 2 Hustlers (1 w/1000hp's 1 w/800hp's) a Donzi ZR, the Tiger w/ 900's had to cancelat the last minute, Gladiator, Cafe Racer, 382 Fastech, 38 Fountain, me in my T/S TG and a few others I havent met yet.
After you run like that, speeding on Havasu means nothing ... when I do go to Havasu (been going for more than 40 yrs) it for relaxing and profiling.
:D :D :D
See Ya, Suckers
G

EliminatorJet
07-07-2004, 10:32 PM
I just found out my sister was in the dcb and got dropped off at the channel right before that run. Thank God she wasn't on it at the time.

beyondhelpin
07-07-2004, 10:36 PM
They had a pontoon at the boat show this year that ran 89 MPH. A 28' Playcraft with twin 300 Mercs hanging of of it. So much for the had to be slow pontoon.:eek:

Jrocket
07-07-2004, 10:51 PM
Originally posted by cigarette1
Fu@k It ... I'm running from Newport Harbor to San Diego tomorrow morning with about 9 other responsible OFFSHORE powerboaters... dazz right, offshore in the ocean ... with Jaws and whatever other wildlife is out there. We got 2 Hustlers (1 w/1000hp's 1 w/800hp's) a Donzi ZR, the Tiger w/ 900's had to cancelat the last minute, Gladiator, Cafe Racer, 382 Fastech, 38 Fountain, me in my T/S TG and a few others I havent met yet.
After you run like that, speeding on Havasu means nothing ... when I do go to Havasu (been going for more than 40 yrs) it for relaxing and profiling.
:D :D :D
See Ya, Suckers
G
Got an extra seat,ill go!:D

ACCEPTENCE
07-07-2004, 11:09 PM
Originally posted by Three Days Only
Castaic Lake, good luck getting it up. Its in some pretty deep water. You would need to get some commercial divers to go down to hook it up with float bags. It was a nice motor though!!
Hummm...ya think???
Yeah...it's do-able, it's only water.
It's just a matter of Side Scan Sonar, Deep Water Video System and Robotics.
Like the Staples commercial says "Yeah we got that"
The million dollar question is:
Is the motor worth the effort involved???

sorry dog
07-07-2004, 11:54 PM
Originally posted by Tom Brown
How many times do you have to watch your friends drink and get stupid before the link between alcohol and idiocy is made?
I think the same could be said of the bench racer section.

Tom Brown
07-08-2004, 12:08 AM
No question. One should not read or post in the Bench Racer section while operating a boat.
Actually, I'm not sure anyone who has ever read or posted in Bench Racers should be allowed to operate a boat, particularly those v-drive guys. It isn't safe for them to give each other facials while pounding out sub-nine second quarter miles.

Wakker
07-08-2004, 01:05 AM
Originally posted by Jrocket
Got an extra seat,ill go!:D me too me too...

Jrocket
07-08-2004, 05:09 PM
RD,
I see that you have your own idea of what drinking and driving is about.I can sit and go back and forth with you all day long and it wont bother me one bit.
Now do you really need to try and get your point acrossed to a guy who just had a major loss in life.Maybe you should try and prove your point to other people instead.Just a thought.
I know you didnt try to mean any harm in your post but dont try and push the issue with him.Doesnt seem right,or does it?

RiverDave
07-08-2004, 05:30 PM
Jrocket, reread the 1st couple sentances in my post..
I made it as non confrontational, and as sensitive as I know how to do.. Point in fact, I wasn't the one that engaged him in the conversation, it was the other way around?
What's suppose to happen here? Everytime someone that has experienced a loss of life posts on a subject everyone else with a different point of view is just suppose to shut up?
Incidentally Mr. Jrocket, something you should know.. Dossangers isn't the only one that has experienced a loss of life from extra ordinary circumstances on the water.
RD

Jrocket
07-08-2004, 05:35 PM
I dont need to reread anything Dave.Then a gain if you want to keep pushing your side,even if its insenseitive then go right ahead.

RiverToysJas
07-08-2004, 05:36 PM
Originally posted by RiverDave
What's suppose to happen here? Everytime someone that has experienced a loss of life posts on a subject everyone else with a different point of view is just suppose to shut up?
Yes, but only if the topic is related to how that person suffered the loss, it's called respect IMO.
RTJas

RiverDave
07-08-2004, 05:43 PM
Well then **** it.. I'll take it down, and save a copy if he's interested in reading it. In my most humble of opinions though, I did right it with RESPECT in mind, and the only thing making it look disrespectful on any level are you two guys saying that it is..
Having a differing opinion is not disrespectful..
I don't feel that he would get upset by anything that I wrote, becuase none of it was disrespectful to him or his situation in anyway???
Whatever though..
RD

Jrocket
07-08-2004, 05:48 PM
Originally posted by RiverDave
and the only thing making it look disrespectful on any level are you two guys saying that it is..
Whatever though..
RD
Exactly whatever!

waterboy
07-08-2004, 06:06 PM
make it 3 i find it disrespectful as well.

RiverDave
07-08-2004, 06:08 PM
Originally posted by waterboy
make it 3 i find it disrespectful as well.
did you even get a chance to read the post in question?
RD :confused:

waterboy
07-08-2004, 06:10 PM
yes i did it was a long one, im just not the quickest on the keyboard. i agree with what your points are just not under the circumstances.

Jrocket
07-08-2004, 06:19 PM
Originally posted by riodog
I don't think Dave meant any disrespect and in his own way was trying to be as gentle as he could be on this topic.
And I fully agree with you on this.

RiverDave
07-08-2004, 06:22 PM
Originally posted by riodog
Jrocket, and RTJ, while I wouldn't have engaged Dossangers in any type of conversation pertaining to the above, ( even having never met either, I feel their pain very intensely for reasons of my own), I don't think Dave meant any disrespect and in his own way was trying to be as gentle as he could be on this topic. 'Dave is Dave' and he is bound and determined that he'll get his point across on this subject-period!
Rio
Not bound and determined to the point of being disrespectful though.. (Importante)
Being that some thought it was I immediately removed it.
I'm still kinda shocked to be honest that the opinion was that it was disrespectful somehow, but being that some found it to be that way I did remove it.. It certainly wasn't intended to be in ANYWAY. I was just trying to show the other side is all.
Either way the post is gone, so in the words of RioDog, can we let it go?
RD

Jrocket
07-08-2004, 06:25 PM
Originally posted by RiverDave
It certainly wasn't intended to be in ANYWAY. I was just trying to show the other side is all.
RD
I beleive you.

RiverDave
07-08-2004, 06:27 PM
Well I beweeve you too..
Now come here and gimme a kiss.. :p
RD ;)

RiverToysJas
07-08-2004, 06:28 PM
Originally posted by Jrocket
I beleive you.
Me too. ;)
RTJas :D

Jrocket
07-08-2004, 06:30 PM
Originally posted by RiverDave
Well I beweeve you too..
Now come here and gimme a kiss.. :p
RD ;)
Whoooaaaa! Lets keep the gayness over at RRL...:D

waterboy
07-08-2004, 06:30 PM
one big happy family:D

LUVNLIFE
07-08-2004, 07:48 PM
Damn is this a group hug?:yuk: :D

cigarette1
07-11-2004, 07:15 PM
Originally posted by cigarette1
Fu@k It ... I'm running from Newport Harbor to San Diego tomorrow morning with about 9 other responsible OFFSHORE powerboaters... dazz right, offshore in the ocean ... with Jaws and whatever other wildlife is out there. We got 2 Hustlers (1 w/1000hp's 1 w/800hp's) a Donzi ZR, the Tiger w/ 900's had to cancelat the last minute, Gladiator, Cafe Racer, 382 Fastech, 38 Fountain, me in my T/S TG and a few others I havent met yet.
After you run like that, speeding on Havasu means nothing ... when I do go to Havasu (been going for more than 40 yrs) it for relaxing and profiling.
:D :D :D
See Ya, Suckers
G
It was Off The Hook

cigarette1
07-11-2004, 07:17 PM
Sunday morning

cigarette1
07-11-2004, 07:19 PM
Ready to run home

cigarette1
07-11-2004, 07:20 PM
fellas

cigarette1
07-11-2004, 07:21 PM
a few more

cigarette1
07-11-2004, 07:22 PM
one more

Jrocket
07-11-2004, 07:34 PM
What does that red n white Fountain say across the back?

Dusty Times
07-11-2004, 07:54 PM
"FEAR THIS"

cigarette1
07-11-2004, 08:13 PM
Leaving Mission Bay after lunch on Thursday

DrewDown
07-11-2004, 08:18 PM
I need A beer.

TCHB
07-11-2004, 08:25 PM
I sold my Howard boat recently and have been using our old Pontoon Boat. I goes 20MPH at best! This weekend I had more guys coming up on us from the back at high rates of speed and then turning at the last minute. They act like they are racing a pontoon boat??? People are driving way to fast with people in the open bow sections with no life vests. Kids up front flying along at 70 to 90MPH is nuts. One little mistake and the kids are out of the boat. A friend of mine hooked his 25 Eliminator Cat on the Parker Strip and was killed going 70MPH max. I am glad everyone is ok but still concerned about the high speed boats running within feet of each other.

Dr. Eagle
07-11-2004, 08:36 PM
Originally posted by hugh jascock
that looks absolutely awsome cigarette 1 !!!!! :) :) :)
Hey Hugh... where's
Ben Dover, Al Coholic and Phil McCracken?;)

Wonderboy
10-11-2005, 03:30 PM
Me Too! ;)
HDD :D
What's with all these old threads being dug up?