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OMEGA_BUBBLE_JET:
565edge:
I believe ya doghouse,Bye the way how big is your motor?How big of cam?What heads?Oh thats right you have dart 355 cnc ported that flow 60 cfm or better than hbjets 990's and another 100 inches on the motor and a bigger cam? :) glad to see someone else realizes that cubic inches is the easiest way to make hp/torque. Don't compare a 572 or 588 monster engine to a 496. So doghouse how many cubes is your engine? And more important-is it making 1.47hp per cubic inch. If not maybe you need a new builder. wink If so what can I say. I guess we just don't know how to build em in Texas. So show us what you are working with. :rolleyes:
Omega Omega, just curious as to why you would bypass all the other (and theres lots since your last post) info thats been posted and address this comment? Is it because it fits into your "hater" theories? Or that you just have no use for facts that others have posted that go against it? Im not gonna bag on you for voicing your oppinion, but when others post valuable info thats conflicting with the point your trying to make (if there really is one???????) mabye you should address them as well? :confused:
[ July 14, 2003, 07:02 AM: Message edited by: BK ]
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DogHouse:
Yeah Omega, you're the only genious that knows it's easy to make tq/hp with cubes. Hopefully you also know that engines are not linear devices, and that all the parts have to come together in the right combo to get an engine to perform in a certain way. If one is making more hp/cube, then maybe it's parts combo and tuning were chosen to satisfy a different application, perhaps at the expense of a broad torque curve or idle quality. You made a blanket statement about not being able to make over 700 hp on pump gas. I'm just here to help show you that you can. You can either choose to learn from what has been done by other builders, or you can stick you head back in the sand and continue to believe that you know everything there is to know about making power. okay if we go back real far. In the beginning.......this all started out by me saying that 1.47hp/cubic inch was unattainable on pump gas. In this particular scenario that is 732hp out of 496ci. Twist it the way you want and say all you want. I dispute it. The way that randy's boat performs backs up my theory. He is not putting 732hp to the pump. I have nothing against any of these guys. I am just simply disputing what has been claimed to be fact and enjoy watching people try to back it up. Everything has to be backed up in the businees of engines. The fact that these engines are putting 150-200 hp less to the pump then they were to the dyno is irrelevant? I just question what is presented before me. I do not claim to be an expert on pumps or engines but I am no dummy either. Just because someone MEASURED your hp to be whatever doesn't mean it's happening on the water where it counts right? I don't know where the hater mentality came from. I have no hate for none of you guys. I enjoy this debacle.
Omega
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Omega, where do you boat because it seems to be the only place in the world with perfect conditions. So, if you dyno'd your motor the way it is, and then ran it on the water, do you think you would be making the exact HP at any given RPM when on the water?
BTW, aren't you going to guess the HP at the selected RPM I put up since you two want measured numbers?
HBjet
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BK:
OMEGA_BUBBLE_JET:
565edge:
I believe ya doghouse,Bye the way how big is your motor?How big of cam?What heads?Oh thats right you have dart 355 cnc ported that flow 60 cfm or better than hbjets 990's and another 100 inches on the motor and a bigger cam? :) glad to see someone else realizes that cubic inches is the easiest way to make hp/torque. Don't compare a 572 or 588 monster engine to a 496. So doghouse how many cubes is your engine? And more important-is it making 1.47hp per cubic inch. If not maybe you need a new builder. wink If so what can I say. I guess we just don't know how to build em in Texas. So show us what you are working with. :rolleyes:
Omega Omega, just curious as to why you would bypass all the other (and theres lots since your last post) info thats been posted and address this comment? Is it because it fits into your "hater" theories? Or that you just have no use for facts that others have posted that go against it? Im not gonna bag on you for voicing your oppinion, but when others post valuable info thats conflicting with the point your trying to make (if there really is one???????) mabye you should address them as well? :confused: No, I just grow tired of voicing the same thing over and over again. I think it well known how I feel about the HUGE hp numbers. And I look forward to seeing these numbers backed up by action on the water. Everyone seems to ignore the original intent of the question here. Why is an engine that produces 708hp at 5600rpm only putting 514hp to the pump? there is no problem with a 200 hp loss from dyno to water. This is not about hating. This about asking questions. I have no problem with these guys and would love to drink a beer and shoot the shit with them someday. :) At this point I am willing to give them time and see how this all turns out. As it stands right now I still think 732hp is way blown up. Like it has been said earlier I have been proven wrong before and am fully prepared to be proven worn again. Until I am, I will refute this subject with no intent of personal damage to anyone or their ride. As said previously both guys have great rides and no doubt produce impressive numbers. Now what is the harm in questioning these numbers???
Omega
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HBjet:
Omega, where do you boat because it seems to be the only place in the world with perfect conditions. So, if you dyno'd your motor the way it is, and then ran it on the water, do you think you would be making the exact HP at any given RPM when on the water?
BTW, aren't you going to guess the HP at the selected RPM I put up since you two want measured numbers?
HBjet hell no it ain't perfect. The water may be smooth. The weather here is hot also believe it or not. Except we have one extract factor. Relative humidity. Do you know what effect humidity has on an engine? We average 95+% humidity in the summer here. So, the answer to your question is no. I don't expect an engine to run the same. I do however think that a 200hp loss is a bit extreme. WAY extreme. As for the guessing.... :D I think you know that it is impossible to do that. 2 engines built exactly the same side by side would not produce the same exact numbers so how the hell could I GUESS yours.I think your measured numbers might be a little closer to what you are making on the water and maybe more interesting. Oh what the hell I'll play. 5600rpm measured power.......575+/- 25hp. How did I do?
Omega
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Omega, can you build a 514hp motor to turn 5600 rpms giving a speed of 92mph in a 19' 600-650lb hull with full interior and 20 gallons of gas? Oh, and all steel motor, no alum.
HBjet
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HBjet:
Omega, can you build a 514hp motor to turn 5600 rpms giving a speed of 92mph in a 19' 600-650lb hull with full interior and 20 gallons of gas? Oh, and all steel motor, no alum.
HBjet I can build a 76 heavy as hell glastron that will run 75 at 5000 rpm, with full int, sunbrella, chairs, cooler two large men and a woman. Your boat has a great set up to run the number. I think my boat wet weighs in bout 1200 lbs and I have a "b" cut legend.
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uh oh...look kids, same boat, same motor, but more rpms! how can that be?
[img]http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/45IMG_0576-med.JPG[/img]
I wonder if the drop in air temperature (it was only 85 degrees at Elsinore last night)had anything to do with it? Certainly the water conditions were no conducive to making speed runs (wind blow chop and wakeboard boats in the vicinity)and the motor combo has not changed. Non-believers please note the water in the background of the photo, that HB Jet's bowlights are on and if that's not enough proof for you, i have video of him coming off plane and hitting the recall button on the tach. Getting closer to 6,000 rpm with his "514hp" motor.... :D
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oh wait this motor's got too much bling so it can possibly make 700+hp...
[img]http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/45IMG_0561-med.JPG[/img]
hmmm. looks like its running good too...
[img]http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/45IMG_0571-med.JPG[/img]
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HBjet:
Omega, can you build a 514hp motor to turn 5600 rpms giving a speed of 92mph in a 19' 600-650lb hull with full interior and 20 gallons of gas? Oh, and all steel motor, no alum.
HBjet dunno? I could probably build an egine to make 514hp and turn 5600 rpm. but the 92mph would vary greatly on the design of the hull and the weight aboard. But you knew that already. You never told me if I was close on my guess for measured power. :(
Omega