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Can anybody post some pics of a "set back" berk pump. I am thinking of relocating mine while I have the boat gutted and want to see how it looks. Im wondering how the transom seal works when the bowl is all the way out of the hull.
any links would help too.........
"ADM sucks"
To switch to a set back pump will require removing and re-installing the shoe. A properly set-up ride plate and doop most likely will give you what your looking.
As for a transom plate they make one that is deeper or make your own. This is what I did.
[This message has been edited by wrightnow (edited September 22, 2001).]
1000 mhz, for pictures look in the classifieds, about 1/4 of the page down and you'll find an ad for my 19 ft daytona. Go to the third set of pictures ( Eliminator borrows the boat for their catalog), and you can see the jet. This berk is set-back so that the entire bowl and inspection/ handhole is completely on the outside of the transom.
When the pump is setup this way we do not use a transom seal. To do what you want to do you must, 1. remove and remount the intake in the bottom of the boat to the rear.(includes fixing the floor from where the intake was before). 2. cutting the transom to fit the new shape of the part of the pump that's at the transom. 3. cut/machine a "transom plate"( can be 1 piece or 2 pieces) that fits around the part of the pump at the point where it passes thru the transom. It is then assembled using silicone sealant around the pump and transom plate.
Can be quite a bit of expense, YOU must decide if it's really worth it and if it's going to "get" you anything.
PS. don't forget, you'll need a driveshaft, also lengthen steering and control cables, waterline, etc.
Hey Mark, you beat me to it! You gonna make it to the bash this next weekend? Spoke to Bill today and if he doesn't get his impeller by Tues gonna see about borrowing one for him. Which day you leaving on? I might need directions cause I lost my map.
Michael
the dog
riodog wouldn't miss it, I'm leaving friday right from work. I'm always up for a party nad this weekend I will be without the family, let the good times roll.... I mean I already miss my wife.
How about you, whats your plan?
1000mhz, I've been thinking the same thing on my 21 Daytona, my pump is not set-back...the bolts for the bowl are just inside the transom.I tallked to Jack from MPD. He said if I did set it back to leave at least 1 1/2 to 2" of hull under the boat (this greatly keeps the strength,integrity) of the hull! MPD has a neet transom plate,mounts outside but curves into the boat which allowes access to the clean out. My biggest broblem would be to properly address the new hole in front of the intake...there's a lot of water pressure on that part of the hull,especially when comming up to plane.If I felt 100 percent about that repair...I'ed move the pump back. There's no local boat shop's around here I could trust. P.S. If the pump went back so would the motor!!1 every inch in a boat is prime real estate!
[This message has been edited by phillyray (edited September 24, 2001).]
Just because you move the pump back, I would not move the engine back also. As your HP grows to need to start moving the motor forward.
Thanks Philly,
I also talked with Jack. He's the man!
The repair seems a little bit of a challenge but not a threat. Im somewhat cozy with glass work so im ready for that end. The part I dont get is the 1 1/2 to 2" for hull strength. So do you mean 2" from the transom? Some of those pics above (thanks Blown509Liberator) definately dont have that kind of clearance. But maybe im confused on the measurement. Jack also suggested just moving the BBC back a bit!
thanks again.........
1000mhz, the photos above are exactly what Jack (the man) was talking to me about.Although those pomps are set back, if ya look caerfully there's still about an inch or so under the pump at the transom as well as the hull,(underside). This setup puts the hand hole in the center of the transome but keeps the new intake location just inside the boat!...now some plates (bottom pics) make that clean out unuasable, but the top photo show's the curved in transom adapter.Also a good pic on MPD's site! Jack more or less said the pumps hanging way out the back are for all out race application, thats were the bottom of the hull and transom is cut out.That weakens the rear of the boat some and causes problem water leaks.In my Daytona, it looks like the pump will have to go back about 4" Thats what I'll see above, and moveing the power plant back also, will do no harm. More space for leg room. So tell me about your repair idea's....the bottom of a Daytona's not flat.
1000MHZ
What Phillyray is saying atthe bottom of the transom dont cut the wood just back the pump up to it. Leaving it one piece at the bottom gives it more strength and resist flexing. also The top plate is jacks plate very cool set up. not the hand hole is still useable.
MikeW
Hey guys clear somthing up for me. Why are you moving the pump back, for more room in the boat? This seems to be a lot of work for such a small amount of room.
But if your doing it for performance, then this is a differance game. As you know the reason for moving the pump back adding a ride plate is to help free up the boat. But as you add HP you will need to start moving the motor forward. You want the motor to drive the boat forward and reduce bow rise.
In your daytona were you running a drive shaft or just the u-joints? I would be willing to bet you didn't have the motor all the way back with that much hp (nice boat though).
Am I wrong in my thoughts
Wrightnow, I agree this project for me would be a major endeavor to say the least. As far as gains...well the extra room in the boat would just be a +. As far a performance gains,I feel that would be another + adding the shoe and rideplate. Not to mention the convevience of getting the bowl off without that damm transom adapter! Easer to try different impellers and the such.My boat dose not use a drive shaft,just 2 u-joints,3 point mount bell housing,with a top mount starter.I would back the motor up 4" thats the easy part!One last note....living in the East Coast(Philly area) its not like I could sell my 21 Daytona and just fall into another one that's already setup. These things are a rare find out here.So the money should be spent on this one.
21 Daytona is a great hull and one worth spending money on. While you have the shoe out have it machined for the ride plate. If you have an idea about how much HP your running call greg at GS or R&D (***boats new jettech) about far forward should the motor be for your HP. Has for the transome plate I made mine also. I made a cardboard template, bought some 1/8 alum., cut it ut with a jig saw, very easy and save me alot of money.
By the Bruce Herald Jr. of R&D just set a new world speed and E.T. record for blown jet this weekend at NJBS (not sure of the number, over 140mph)
Just a thought, but why not leave the motor in place and install a whirl-a-way in the space you gain in the driveline. If you are going to be running big numbers, rapid deceleration could cause a lack of control. Not to mention, you could run on the trailer without hurting the pump.
Chris
The problem with a whirl-a-way is it get very hot, very quickly. It designed for racing only not pleasure boating.
well I guess in a way I figured, performance wise, that setting back the pump would basically move the water line back thus taking more boat out of the water. The key here is to get these things out of the water(to an extent of course)as much as possible, creating less drag, right?? This in combo with a ride plate seems to be that key. I see this combo on every boat that beats me at the river. It cant just be for room. I never got into deep discussion about exactly how much performance you get, but I plan to do a lot of work over this winter and want to take advantage of each and every MPH possible (especialy the free one's). Now Im already blueprinting my hulls underside, It just seem'd that this would be convienant to do since I will have this thing apart anyway.
If im not gonna get some good results or if anybody feels this job is just not worth it, let me know. Im not here to argue, I use this forum for debate and good advice so speak up.
thanks again
Philly Im going to lay up the whole rear of the boat. Im not happy with the way Taylor desighned there hulls as far as the stringers (not glassed to the transom) and the solidness along the motor mounts. My repair idea is basically to slap that shit all over the place so just do some reading on the net and you will be a pro in about 10 min. make sure you do some extra good prep and you will be fine. Oh, and dont be scared!
hee hee
Performance wise moving the pump back and adding a ride plate is to create more riding surface behind be boat. Your right about freeing up the boat less drag. But if your balance is off (moving the motor to far back) this will create proposing and then you will have to push the nose down to correct it and in turn wetting more of the boat. The key is to find someone with a 21' daytona that is working great and get their spec. to get a starting place.
Also make sure you make the back edge of you boat as sharp as possible. This creates less drag when the water exit from under the boat.
100mhz I agree with you that I'm just voicing what I have learned and what has worked for me, I by no means an expert.
If anyone has any questions about setback pumps, motors, etc., call Greg, Jack, or Tom papp.
I was hoping it wouldn't come to this, BUT, If anyone has been reading the "Disappointed Boater", Omega, ADM, threads then you can see what I personally received from R&D Marine! Headaches, grief, procrastination, total bullshit. I put up with Harold's "crap" for 4 months a few years back and I don't wish that on anyone. I have already contacted Kevin and Brett on this issue and depending upon what they have to say, I will be MORE THAN HAPPY to reveal anything and EVERYTHING about my dealings with our new and hopefully "X" jet tech writer. I don't intend to make this into a "Marine 001" type bashing thread however I would suggest that if anyone has any thoughts of giving R&D Marine any of your business, you first contact any reputable boat shop and ask if they have ever heard of Harold Bruce.
If anyone (including Harold ) has a problem with what I've posted be advised that I can back up everything.
M.W.Fulton
RIODOG
Food For Thought: just because someone can make their boat go fast is no indication of how they are going to treat you as a customer!
Amen Riodog, I got butt slammed by ADM boatworks a while back, and have definately learned my lesson the $hard$ way.
Does anybody have anything to add to this thread as far as performance increase (mph) gains from setting back the pump??
riodog I need your help. I have a very good friend that's just about to spend big $$$ with R&D on a new motor. Could you e-mail me your number, I would like to talk to about what happen before my friend comments to R&D.
thanks...