Cracked impeller

Took my pump apart today just to check the health of the wear ring and back bushings and such. Well the wear ring and the wear surface looked pretty good. No chips or dings on the impeller blades anywhere. But on looking a bit closer there is a hairline crank in one of the impeller blades. :mad: It's an
Aggressor B almost a year old to the day. The date stamped on it is 2004 may 10. So I called Duane from HTP (which is where I got it) and let him know that I'll be needing to order another one. But apparently he doesn't have any in stock right now. I'm pretty God Damn sure the crack is not from abuse, but rather a weak spot in the casting. The crack is within an 1/8" of the ouside diameter where it connects to the inside of the wear ring surface. The visible crack is about 1" long but that whole edge looks pretty thin to me, like it's been ground out too much or something to remove casting flaws I suppose. But the damn thing looks great other than that. :mad: I'm sure I could have it repaired, but I don't think it's worth risking my pump for a $300 part. If that blade cracked, I'm sure another one could and will too.
Has anyone else had this problem with an Aggressor tenzaloy impeller? Should I look at another, like Berk, AT, or something? I'm a damn loyal customer when It comes to brands and such, but when I get burned once I have a hard time just slappin the same brand in again. That little crack could have been potentially fatal to the jet pump if I hadn't been bored and pulled the pump apart. :hammer2:
In any case, Duane said he might be able to discount one for me but he won't know till next week if he can get one shipped out. This sumbitch is going in the water come hell or high water next weekend. I'll have to get one before the coming work week is over. Any suggestions?
I need a berk A or equivalent. Help! :D
thanks for reading this piece of crap,
Nick
By the way, I'm not suggesting it's Duane's fault and he should replace it. No way in hell would I expect someone to warrantee a part that goes through god only knows what kind of abuse for a year. I just want to get the god damn boat back in the water. :squiggle:

A cracked Agressor impeller???????
NO! Say it isn't so!!!! :hammerhea
Should I look at another, like Berk, AT, or something?
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

A cracked Agressor impeller???????
NO! Say it isn't so!!!! :hammerhea
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Trust me I can appreciate the sarcasm. But I hadn't heard anything about Aggressor impellers cracking any more or any less that anything else. Have I missed something? Which brand would you suggest? I'd be willing to bet that you can get a shitty one from any company occasionally. The bad luck just happened to hit me this time. I really don't care at this point, I just need to get another impeller and wear ring.

My friend has a used stainless B impeller. I Am unsure what brand it is but I could get more info.If your ineterested, let me know.Chris

Like I said Nick, I do have Berkeley's , ATJ's and Dominator impellers in stock. If you'd rather have one of them, I can ship Monday. Really makes me no difference. I have had Aggressor parts on back order all year long. They are coming in very slowly. The reason I put you off till Monday, is because I could not get a hold of Aggressor today to see if the next order had been shipped yet. Let me know if you prefer something else.

Trust me I can appreciate the sarcasm. But I hadn't heard anything about Aggressor impellers cracking any more or any less that anything else. Have I missed something? Which brand would you suggest? I'd be willing to bet that you can get a shitty one from any company occasionally. The bad luck just happened to hit me this time. I really don't care at this point, I just need to get another impeller and wear ring.
The sarcasm comes from just the fact that these "cracked" Agressor impellers keep showing up. I'm not sure it's bad luck.
In answer to your question, I posted this answer to basically the same question on a previous thread asking about weather or not Agressor has a bad reputation:
Among certain people, absolutely. As for me, I have never had any personal experience with any of their products, but I've seen first hand, and heard second hand, of enough of their products failing for no reason except for what appeared to be poor quality control or manufacturing, that given the choice, I personally would neither use nor endorse their products. Please keep what I said in context. There are also a lot of their products out there that seem to work very well...you need to be your own judge.

Steelcomp, I know you don't like Aggressor, but I've had pretty good luck with them. 6 or 7 years ago when they were new in the business, we did have some cracked impellers. It was mostly from core shift problems. I think they have pretty well worked those problems out. I also have a lot of cracked Berkeley and some cracked American Turbine impellers lying around too. Does that mean they are all bad? I don't think so. All companies have parts that fail at some time or another. I remember when Dominator was the new player in the market. They had a terrible time keeping their bowls together, but they lived through it and made a pretty darned good pump. Legend had their problems too. I had a slew of their cracked impellers, but they too, solved their problems. So, all in all, I think the Aggressor Tinzalloy impeller is a pretty good value for the money spent. Some people don't agree. That's why we sell all brands.

It's not that I don't like them, Duane. I've tried to be real clear on the fact that I really don't have any first hand experience with them. I'm just relaying data. I thought it was a little ironic that just a couple of weeks ago someone was selling another Agressor impeller because of the same "cracks". Just a few weeks ago one of their brand new bowls blew holes in itself. There seems to be a pattern here, and if asked, I'll give my opinion.
Lets compare numbers, Duane. Out of how many Berk impellers sold do you think there are cracked ones laying around that weren't race hardened and/or abused? Now out of how many Agressor impellers sold are ones that have cracked prematurely or even failed brand new?? Lets do a little percentage comparison. Or not. I really don't care. The writing's on the wall.
Bad reputations AFA products are concerned don't come from no where.
Don't make this something personal, because I don't relate Agressor's rep to you or your business in any way, OK? :coffeycup Steelcomp, I know you don't like Aggressor, but I've had pretty good luck with them. 6 or 7 years ago when they were new in the business, we did have some cracked impellers. It was mostly from core shift problems. I think they have pretty well worked those problems out. I also have a lot of cracked Berkeley and some cracked American Turbine impellers lying around too. Does that mean they are all bad? I don't think so. All companies have parts that fail at some time or another. I remember when Dominator was the new player in the market. They had a terrible time keeping their bowls together, but they lived through it and made a pretty darned good pump. Legend had their problems too. I had a slew of their cracked impellers, but they too, solved their problems. So, all in all, I think the Aggressor Tinzalloy impeller is a pretty good value for the money spent. Some people don't agree. That's why we sell all brands.

Well, I sure don't want to start a flame Aggressor thread. I'm realistic, I do realize sometimes shit happens. I trust Duane's expertise and advice, he's been more than helpful to me in the past. I don't know the incidence of impeller failures of Aggressor as compared to AT, Berk, or anyone else for that matter, and frankly, I don't really care. I just need the boat together by next weekend. :crossx: Hopefully, this one will last me more than one season. The main reason I'm dissappointed is because I've been a good lil boy and really made a concerted effort to keep from abusing the pump. It's not always easy, but I figured it would pay off in the long run, well so far, my plan isn't working so hot.
Nick

fhi-prez how much HP are you running?

I remember when Dominator was the new player in the market. They had a terrible time keeping their bowls together, but they lived through it and made a pretty darned good pump.
Duane will you refresh my memory, I don't recall any broken bowls. ATM

"The main reason I'm dissappointed is because I've been a good lil boy and really made a concerted effort to keep from abusing the pump. It's not always easy, but I figured it would pay off in the long run, well so far, my plan isn't working so hot."
I'm not a good lil boy and my SS Berk B is not cracked after 14 years. Yours is one year old?
jer

No offense Steelcomp. I really couldn't really tell you the percentages one way or the other because I have no way of knowing the numbers. But I suppose it might lean towards the new kid on the block. I use them in a lot of applications because of the performance gains available. I like the way they pull out of the hole. You can go clear down to a "C" cut impeller, and still have a much better hole shot. Just my personal experience. I use a lot of the American Turbine impellers too. They are a quality piece. :wink:

ATM man, check your PM.

My friend has a used stainless B impeller. I Am unsure what brand it is but I could get more info.If your ineterested, let me know.Chris
check your pm's

fhi-prez how much HP are you running?
can't be over 450 with the 750 cfm carb. It runs about 68-70 mph. at 5100 rpm on a agressor B (berk A).

FHI, do you have a loader???? I was running a brand new agressor AL impeller with about 500hp and the boat would not go over 68mph. The impeller came apart after about 5 trips. Come to find out, with no loader in my boat I was having a high speed cavitation which led to the demise of the impeller. After talking with Jack at MPD, he told me that if you are running over 65mph you really should be running a loader. Maybe something to look into.

FHI, do you have a loader???? I was running a brand new agressor AL impeller with about 500hp and the boat would not go over 68mph. The impeller came apart after about 5 trips. Come to find out, with no loader in my boat I was having a high speed cavitation which led to the demise of the impeller. After talking with Jack at MPD, he told me that if you are running over 65mph you really should be running a loader. Maybe something to look into.
No I don't have a loader, but it something I have been thinking about. I guess it's possible that it is experiencing high speed cavitation. But, I'm inclined to think that's not the case as to why the impeller let go. I say this because I very rarely run it at full throtte. I use it for skiing and cruising primarially. I don't know if only a few short full throttle blasts could cause this but I'm no expert. I'll look into it further. I suppose my concern with running a loader is I'm afraid of debris getting into the intake. It seems to me that it would be pretty easy for a piece of crap to make it into the intake by a loader than by the stock rock grate. Granted any debris would have to be floating, maybe I'm worried about nothing, I don't know. I was planning on a shoe and ride plate. However, I don't know how much difference that would make at speed as far as loading the top part of the impeller. I appreciate the imput, I hadn't really thought of that. This is exactly why I don't want to rush to judgement on the product. I may have something off in my setup that's the culprit, not the piece itself. I must say tho, the impeller does look awful weak in the area it cracked. The other blades don't look the same in the same area, which is how I'm basing the "weak" statement.
I do think it's about time I spent some time and money on a shoe/rideplate, snoot or droop, and possibly a loader.
I'm pretty damn sure the boat is easily capable of late 70's speeds. The motor is being choked down pretty good by the 750 cfm carb. I know it's over cammed for that cfm. Good flowing aluminum heads, cam 244/254 dur @ .050 lift, and 588/614 lift. She could probably handle two small fours pretty well, but like I said, I use it for skiing, and more horsepower means more problems, I'd rather be on the water than in the shop. The new motor may have 20 hours on it, and it runs like hell with my bud's 850 demon on her. Some pump set up and moving the 28 gallon gas tank out of the bown and back by the engine would improve top end as well.
Pic of boat:
http://www.fordmuscle.com/pictures/p...pics%20006.jpg
Nick

No I don't have a loader, but it something I have been thinking about.
Nick
I will have to defend your aluminum impeller any boat that runs over 65 mph really needs some sort of loading device. I have seen suction housings broken in half due to lack of water. By the way I don't think you will have any luck welding on the blade. The welding process will cause the blade to shrink which will suck a dip in the wear-ring skirt. ATM

Nick
Some time ago, early last year, I was having major shake and knocking problems with my boat; the whole boat was shaking violently. Took the motor apart twice to try and find a source of detonation or something. It was either this BB or RJB that suggested cavitation in the pump; I was not yet running a loader but did have a shoe (1/2" at 3 deg) Remember I'm running in the same water as you. I took pressure readings at the suction and the pressures were all over the place. A little research revealed the top of the impeller was low on NPSH causing an imbalance (the hull shake) and the cavitation. I am turning an American Turbine 9.25 stainless with an AT bowl for the 9.25. The simple addition of the loader fixed all of the problems and I gained about 300 RPM.
I am sure that I would have destroyed an Aluminum impeller; maybe more.
Get the loader or for now baby the thing until you can get the shoe and loader.
BTW - when are you going to do the St. Johns; or is that where you have been???
Tom

I've tried to be real clear on the fact that I really don't have any first hand experience with them. I'm just relaying data. I thought it was a little ironic that just a couple of weeks ago someone was selling another Agressor impeller because of the same "cracks". Just a few weeks ago one of their brand new bowls blew holes in itself.
Funny when i had my boat a few years back there was always all this BS about how aggressor is no good, inferior, yada yada yada...but yet i had 700hp and ran an aluminum aggresor impeller and bowl for 3 seasons without ANY trouble what so ever. Never hesitated to mash the loud pedal either. What do you have to say about that steelchump?? Why not shut your pie hole until you try them eh?? They only ones on the inferior, subpar parts brigade are the ones who have never used it...like you for instance....why is that??? I can see if the parts arent warrentied or something but they are so whats the big deal??? Are you getting paid for this or something?? HBJet vanishes then you show up...whats up with that?? We went round and round for months on this stuff...seems like yesterday. You dont know cuz you werent around. I remember when i wanted some advice, pops at aggressor spent numerous times with me on his dime helping me out. Nice guy to say the least. Much less he was always talking about the racers and how he loves helping them. Do you see any the guys at berkeley or the others helping out or sponsoring racers??? Support the people who support you will ya! Gheesh!
There seems to be a pattern here, and if asked, I'll give my opinion The writing's on the wall.
Thats strange coffecup steelchump....who asked for your opinion??? I can't seem to find it here.. :confused:
Bad reputations AFA products are concerned don't come from no where.
Don't make this something personal, because I don't relate Agressor's rep to you or your business in any way, OK? :coffeycup
I dont see to much on his site to say otherwise but i thought the promotor sold strictly aggressor parts....with how much experience and "good guy" stature he has that should tell you something eh?? Whadiathink there steelchump??? Just my opinion but there sure seems to be alot more aggressor around these days more so then there used to be. Must work eh?? If i ever do get another jetboat again, i'll still look for the best price on parts though, just might not be aggressor sorry to say. Seems the berkeley is cheapest around now a days. Too bad CP sucks! :D
CHET

steelcomp I have an Aggressor pump on the Hydro that has been aired out many times with a blown 454.
No problems what so ever, even after 3 years of racing and lake uses.

Chet, Chet, Chet. Wadawe gonna do with your sorry ass. "Steelchump" LOL......did you think that one up on your own?? Pretty good for your mentality, but my bet is someone gave it to you, YDMF.
Thats strange coffecup steelchump....who asked for your opinion??? I can't seem to find it here.. That's because you're just a pissed off little troublemaker, Chet, and have nothing of any value to say what so ever.
This is from the thread starter FHI Prez: (Not surprised you missed it, though.)
Has anyone else had this problem with an Aggressor tenzaloy impeller? Should I look at another, like Berk, AT, or something? I'm a damn loyal customer when It comes to brands and such, but when I get burned once I have a hard time just slappin the same brand in again. That little crack could have been potentially fatal to the jet pump if I hadn't been bored and pulled the pump apart.
So, lets see, Chet. You ran ONE of their impellers with, woooooo!!! 700 whole HP! Man, that's a lot! Now you're an expert. ROTFLMAO!!
Still dosen't change the facts, Chet. After what I've seen, and what I've heard, not only have I never run an Agressor part, I never will., and with YOUR endorsement, it kinda seals the deal. And if the parts are warranteed, why hasn't someone stepped up here and offered FHI a new one? (Maybe they have...dunno, but I wouldn't replace junk w/ junk...know what I mean?)
Sounds like you're begging for donuts, Chet! I bet ol' Pops is real proud to have you in his donut box! Maybe YOU"RE the one being paid. I'm not endorsing anyone or anything here.
I dont see to much on his site to say otherwise but i thought the promotor sold strictly aggressor parts....with how much experience and "good guy" stature he has that should tell you something eh??
Yeah...Duane's an excellent salesman, and a good guy, but I bet he's getting tired of fielding problems with Agressor stuff.
Never hesitated to mash the loud pedal either. What do you have to say about that steelchump?? Yeah, Chet, we know...the loud pedal under your nose! Maybe you could have that sore sewn up. It's nasty!
Go crawl back in your cave, wierdo.

steelcomp I have an Aggressor pump on the Hydro that has been aired out many times with a blown 454.
No problems what so ever, even after 3 years of racing and lake uses.
Good for you.

Nick
Some time ago, early last year, I was having major shake and knocking problems with my boat; the whole boat was shaking violently. Took the motor apart twice to try and find a source of detonation or something. It was either this BB or RJB that suggested cavitation in the pump; I was not yet running a loader but did have a shoe (1/2" at 3 deg) Remember I'm running in the same water as you. I took pressure readings at the suction and the pressures were all over the place. A little research revealed the top of the impeller was low on NPSH causing an imbalance (the hull shake) and the cavitation. I am turning an American Turbine 9.25 stainless with an AT bowl for the 9.25. The simple addition of the loader fixed all of the problems and I gained about 300 RPM.
I am sure that I would have destroyed an Aluminum impeller; maybe more.
Get the loader or for now baby the thing until you can get the shoe and loader.
BTW - when are you going to do the St. Johns; or is that where you have been???
Tom
This is exactly why I don't want to rush to judgement on a bad or faulty impeller. I do maintain that the area that cracked doesn't look "the same" as the same areas on the other blades. But looks can be deceiving. I'd bet I need to do some set up work to the pump to make sure this doesn't happen again. I'm going to have to assume at this point that I may have some pressure fluctuations in the pump and go ahead and shoe it and load it. Both are relatively inexpensive and might even give me a more economical ride and just maybe a bit more top end. I don't stab it very often, but would be nice to gain some mph without just throwing more hp at it. But again, my priority is reliability, not WFO speed.
I've been in the Indian quite a bit, and in the St. Johns. Been doing some camping on the islands in the north Indian, almost to Hollover canal. But when it's time to ski it's the St. Johns. As far as when I'm heading to the St. Johns again.....the morning after I get my pump back together.
That reminds me, have you ever been to Lake Monroe on July 4th for the fireworks? One of the funnest runs I've ever done was heading back to Mullet lake park through all the twistie river bends in the blackness of night haulin ass, being led by a bunch of airboats with daylights lighting the path, and 50 other boats of all kinds giving chase. Was a bit unnerving at first, but I was laughing so hard I had tears in my eyes in a few minutes. I'll let you know when I get her back together, I really wanna see that twin turbo jewel you got floatin around. Don't want to race ya tho, I'd get my ass handed to me.
:notam:
Nick

All of the new impellers are excellent components regardless who does the final machining. Quite probably the same company does the castings for all; not uncommon in mass production these days. I think it comes down to the inspections before placed in stock; even though, one or two will get through the system with core shift or other defects. People like you and I have to assume the component is correct as we do not put twenty pumps together a week and don't know all of the quirks to look for. School of hard knocks..... Sounds to me like you are a victim of tolerance stackup whereas you have some cavitation a slightly out of spec impeller and enough HP to take it all over the edge - lesson learned. For years it was taboo to run aluminum impellers in anything over 500 HP and 5500 RPM; they have gotten much better as I don't see such disclaimers anymore.
When you are ready to cut the intake for the shoe let me know I have a Bridgeport and all of the tooling and can take you through it.
The other folks that are pitching in (SteelJetChet) seem to know impellers and pumps technically quite well. They probably build quite a few pumps, put thousands of HP and RPM on them and have undoubtedly seen it all. Take it off the tech. pages boyz......Let the man work his problem.

All of the new impellers are excellent components regardless who does the final machining. Quite probably the same company does the castings for all; not uncommon in mass production
I can assure you American Turbine and Dominator castings are not run at the same foundry as any of the others. ATM

All of the new impellers are excellent components regardless who does the final machining. Quite probably the same company does the castings for all; not uncommon in mass production these days. I think it comes down to the inspections before placed in stock; even though, one or two will get through the system with core shift or other defects. People like you and I have to assume the component is correct as we do not put twenty pumps together a week and don't know all of the quirks to look for. School of hard knocks..... Sounds to me like you are a victim of tolerance stackup whereas you have some cavitation a slightly out of spec impeller and enough HP to take it all over the edge - lesson learned. For years it was taboo to run aluminum impellers in anything over 500 HP and 5500 RPM; they have gotten much better as I don't see such disclaimers anymore.
When you are ready to cut the intake for the shoe let me know I have a Bridgeport and all of the tooling and can take you through it.
The other folks that are pitching in (SteelJetChet) seem to know impellers and pumps technically quite well. They probably build quite a few pumps, put thousands of HP and RPM on them and have undoubtedly seen it all. Take it off the tech. pages boyz......Let the man work his problem.
Yeah, the skool of hard knocks can be painful when you have to stay after class and get a brow beating. But, I'm still and always will be learning, so I have to take it in stride. The plan is to put the impeller in and add a loader along with a shoe. I really want to make sure the pump stays loaded and at least try to eliminate a cavitation problem. I've talked with a couple of pump gurus today and learned a lot. I'm not going to machine the intake per say, I'm going to put on a add a shoe kit as it will be better than nothing. The last thing I want to do is pull that damn E pump out of the boat. That is a whole can of worms I don't want to open. I really do appreciate the offer with the Bridgeport, and you can bet your ass I'll come beggin to use it for something
:crossx: But for now, a add a shoe, and a loader will keep me out of trouble for awhile I'm gathering. A droop will come soon thereafter to see how it affects the boat pertaining to speed and ride quality. Still want to see that twin turbo moose you're running tho. :cool:
I'll get a handle on this....sooner or later. :)
Thanks again,
Nick