Terrible Timing

[jroos]

I have just completed a full resto on my `75 Southwind 21' Berkly JG boat. It has taken 3 years, 1 fiance'(married now, but that`s another story) and right at about 20G to finish it.I did all the work myself and it looks great. First let me ask some advice. This is my first big block Ford(460). I can`t time the damn thing. It will not idle, and won`t zing past 4. This is when it starts dropping cylinders. I have the high fire 4c box and its set at 73 on the rev limiter. And no, the orange wire for the line lock is not hooked up. Unilite sparkler(electronic w/ mechanical advance) and mallory coil. I am running Lunati`s cam designed for jet jobs and a 4150 series 750 Holley(out of the box with choke butterfly removed). RPM performer with a Ron Sporal 2" spacer(1st " is 4 hole, 2nd " is dual plane). Stock compression, cast slugs, DIVE block, Dove heads with emissions "humps" ground out. Other polished goodies are all from original rigger "GUARDIAN". I bought this boat after an insurance job left a basketball sized whole where the foot went. The name painted on the back was BUCKIN` FUZZARD Fresno, CA. Any way I am gonna include a pick hopefully tomorrow. Now, Lunati grinds 4 degrees advance in thier cams, I used a 3 way double roller crank gear. I am almost positive that I installed the cam "straight up". I get some poppin` through the carb, and oddly, I get "blow by" through the breather on crank up. Popping is on crank up also. I do not believe that a spring is broken nor a valve is stuck. I do believe the cam itself is off. Any suggestions before I yank this mother out? Thanks, James jroos@bellsouth.net

[spectras only]

Hi, I see you haven't got any reply yet so I wandered if you rechecked your cam timing yet? I worked on quite few Fords and didn't have problem with setups for timing.It sounds like as you suggested the cam is out.I wouldn't yank the engine out yet before recheck TDC both intake and exhaust valves closed position.Just removing the valve cover on the right side at number one cylinder looking toward the front of the boat you sould be able to tell.If your distributor is out 180 degrees that's were all the backfire and spitting coming from.Another thing despite the fact lot of people put timing TDC I tried all variables on timing -4deg 0TDC 4ATC 6ATC {I did this same day ,took awhile doing timing cover removal each time}top speed was achieved at 6degrees ATC.Couldn't tell much difference in loss off hole shot speed since all jets reach full rpm almost instant.I guess if you into racing it's a different matter.My boat is a 20 spectra with a JG bowl AA impeller 429 cobrajet with the cast iron SCJ intake KB pistons fordmotorsport marine cam 493/502 lift 780 holley 72 primeries 85 secondary jets vacuum secondary.The boat is approx.3000 pounds,engine max rpm 4850 one person, tank one third full, 60mph on GPS at sealevel.I have tried Offy dual plane manifolds but the SCJ cast iron runs best despise the fact the intake opening is much larger on the cylinder head side.I think Edelbrock or weiand single plane is best suited for the big block fords.

[gmocnik]

if the ignition setup you describe has magnatic pickup in the distributer check to make sure the wiring to the ignition box is correct. i had a similar prob with an msd 6m box and an msd distributer. we went through everything (cam ,blower, springs, etc.)and it just would not time.. after hours of trouble shooting we hooked up a whole new ignition system and bypassed the other wiring and it ran great...crossed wires from the msd box...duh...
i hope yours is a duh and not a $$$..
gm

[spectras only]

Gmocnick could be right on that one about the msd system,altough the control box and distributor has matching plugin wiring.You can get an MSD catalog free at most speedshops that has every possible set up for all engines.I have the MSD system in my spectra 24 with the LS6 engine and runs great.

[jroos]

I haven`t done anything yet except pump the distributor another tooth. That makes five different teeth and not a damn thing different. Now if I`m not mistaken, #1 cylinder is on the left or passenger side and goes 1-4 on that bank and 5-8 on the other. The high fire box I always questioned with the wiring because my friend did it while I was doin` something else. But, he was a radar tech in the Navy and a tech with us now. I need to know the firing order of 460. I am currently using a small blocks. I am leaning towards the wire deal now because the re-stabs are not changing anything. It is impossible for the cam to be out 180. I have done that before and it makes a bomb, literally. This motor runs. I am gonna pull the valve cover to see if the valves are shut at TDC #1. Now, my sparkler is a Mallory, electronic, w/ the ceramic resistor. Maybe I have the wires wrong on it. When you pop the cap, there is an arrow on a red plastic block, what the hell is that for? Hey guys thanks for all the info, with ya`lls help I`m gonna run this old gal. Thanks again, James New orleans, LA

[spectras only]

Hi jroos,you only need the resistor on coil and points ignition to protect the points from burning up on starting the engine.I have the original prestolite marine distributor and an msd blaster coil with the resistor between ign and positive coil terminal.Your number one cylinder is on your left side if you looking at the harmonic balancer and the disributor.Chevy's have the distributor in the back and #1 cyl on your right.You can get a cheaper Haynes manual for reference on firing sequence to keep it in your boat in case someone decides to borrow your cables.he,he.

[gmocnik]

Originally posted by spectras only:
Gmocnick could be right on that one about the msd system,altough the control box and distributor has matching plugin wiring.You can get an MSD catalog free at most speedshops that has every possible set up for all engines.I have the MSD system in my spectra 24 with the LS6 engine and runs great.
you are right about the msd connectors unless somebody?????? cuts of the really nice msd connectors and uses other connectors that allow for a mix up....

[dropkeel]

What is the pushrod lenght?

[spectras only]

as dropkeel mentioned you have to know your deckheight[3 different heigths]and different pushrodlength.The 460 has nonadjustable pedestal type rockerarms.If you use the wrong pushrod length you develop coilbind.The best solution is to get the 429 DOVC-e cyl heads that you can put 7/16 RPM studs {stronger than the 3/8]and aftermarket roller rockers.Get 7/16 guides from Ford Motorsports and preferebly Rhoads antipumpup lifters.They require 0 clearence to set up.It should give you years of troublefree operation.The 429 heads will give you approx 9.3 compression ratio so you don't have to worry about pinging or detonation if you keep engine temp about 150-160 degrees.Not to mention the increase in horspower over the 460cyl head.The Lincoln MarkIII in 68-69 head those heads so should be easy to find at the wreckers for relatively cheap.

[spectras only]

as dropkeel mentioned you have to know your deckheight[3 different heigths]and different pushrodlength.The 460 has nonadjustable pedestal type rockerarms.If you use the wrong pushrod length you develop coilbind.The best solution is to get the 429 DOVE-C cyl heads that you can put 7/16 RPM studs {stronger than the 3/8]and aftermarket roller rockers.Get 7/16 guides from Ford Motorsports and preferebly Rhoads antipumpup lifters.They require 0 clearence to set up.It should give you years of troublefree operation.The 429 heads will give you approx 9.3 compression ratio so you don't have to worry about pinging or detonation if you keep engine temp about 150-160 degrees.Not to mention the increase in horspower over the 460cyl head.The Lincoln MarkIII in 68-69 head those heads so should be easy to find at the wreckers for relatively cheap.