Is this a good hull? How does it compare to a Spectra or Schiada?

[djunkie]

You mean my Howard 23 offshore isn't really a Howard? :cry: Actually I've heard this already but couldn't remember who it was that was the original builder of it.
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center...02_099-med.jpg
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center..._river_062.jpg
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/6749boat.jpg

[Kim Hanson]

Crusader the most splashed boat? No fockin way. The most splashed boat of any era is the 16 Tahiti followed by the 18 Southwind, followed by the 20 Spectra. The Crusader is pretty far down the food chain when it comes to out right splashing.
The Howard 23 (skinny version) was a 'California Cool' boat and the molds were bought from the owner/designer/tooler, not splashed and the other 23 Howard offshore was built from a set of Hocking molds that the owners bought via Rudy Ramos. Had nothing to do with Crusader. Nor do they resemble in any way a Crusader. I rigged for both owners of both sets of molds before and after they were Howards.
If anyone needs to "step away form the bar", I think it might be you.
You seem to know your boats and I will ask again, mine has California Hot on the side of it....look! Any ideas?.......( . )( . )........... :frown:
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center...fornia_Hot.JPG

[old rigger]

Sorry bigkatboat,
Your wrong about the Howard, I was there when we took delivery of the molds from Hocking. It was a 23, ( actual length was 22) it was also later streched into a longer version at Howards.
Now Bahner's the most copied hull? I thought you said Crusader was? Which
is it. actually it's neither of those bosts, it's the one's I mentioned earlier.
You named 5 or 6 who splashed the Bahner (which is kinda funny because Rodney was known for his splashing abilities too, ie. the Rogers bottom on his 18) that's not many builders. When talking about splasing the Tahiti, Southwind and the Spectra, you get into dozens and dozens of splashes for each one. Not just a handful.
You're not going back far enough in history to know who splashed who. In the 60's you couldn't throw a stick in the water at the river and not bounce it off the deck of a 16 Tahiti or a splash of one. It's hard to even explain the impact that boat had on the boating industry, it was like the model T ford. Every one could afford, all the boat builders shifted gears and splashed it cause they wanted in on the market, and everyone either owned one, or knew someone who did.
In the 70's the Southwind had the same impact as well as the Spectra 20. The Southwind looked fast sitting still. That boat alone is the 'poster boat' for the gas guzzling 1970's. Going to the river back then it was all 4X4 trucks towing a Southwind or one of it's clones. Same with the Spectra 20. It opened doors so almost anyone could have a cruiser like Campbell was building. A campbell was pretty much out of reach for the average working guy back then. The Spectra 20 not only was a beautiful boat, it was within reach of most who wanted one.
I'm not talking about gross numbers of boats built by a manufacture, what does that prove. No builder's ever told the truth on how many boats they build a year anyway? That is total bullshit on the salemans part. To get real numbers that you can believe, you have to go to the engine suppliers and add the figures up.
I've know Smiley for years too, so what. Bob Sepulveda came to Advantage from Carrera when I was still GM At advantage. I know his history as a saleman too. Big deal.
Stan the man tooled up the skinny 23' years before he had his own Calif. cool. That was a short lived venture on his part. I still see him roaming around the LB swap meet now and then. Doesn't change the fact about the boat. The Howard came form this original design, and the other 23 was a Hocking, not the screwed-up story you told. If your talking about the Howard 20, then again, you have to go to Spectra. He was the first to splash the 20 Spectra back in the 70's later adding a Whaler deck and even later, straightening out the gunnales to give the deck a more Schiada look.
The skinny 23 by the way is the most out of plumb boat I ever rigged. One side of the boat is 1/2 inch longer than the other and the transom is kinda screwy too, although at this moment I can't remember what the problem is when laying out the transom. It'll come to me later. Fast boat though. Gene at Howard loved it.
You may well be right about what's gone on in the late 90's in the boat biz. I got out in 94 and haven't followed who's done what to whos boat. As far as Hawaiian splashing a Crusader? Never happened. I was there from the day they opened the doors to the day they closed them, and I can promise you we never splashed a boat that didn't even FOCKING exist for another 6 or 7 years. You should check yourself before you accuse me of twisting the truth. I was at Warlock too in the early 90's and we never splashed any Crusader or Bahner. We had my old friend Don Kirby running the glass dept and he tooled up all our plugs for us. His brother Bud was a rigger at Hawaiin back in the day as well.

[flat broke]

Old rigger, the Crusader 20'6", IS the Carrera 20.5, and the Commander and the Hawaiian. (and a few others) The 'Hocking' boats are the 'Howard 20'6", and the 22', NOT THE HOWARD 23'! Just ask Bob Sepulveda (of Advantage boats) he was selling those 23' Crusaders back in the early 1980's. Yes everyone 'splashed' the Southwind, (I'm old friends with Smiley) but Commander and Carrera made so many of those 20'6" boats that it is not even close. I've even got a poster of one of my boats on the wall, Rick Cline (call him on the phone and ask him) gave it to me. He took an unbelieveable photo of one of my boats, in the air. He was in a 23' Crusader (with the GOLD package) when he shot the photo. That was 1988, way before 'Calif. Cool' was ever in business. Did 'CC' make any original designs? Well maybe that really narrow thing that was all openbow. It's nice to "reminisce", but let's not twist the facts. Also, the Bahner 21 is WAY MORE copied than the Spectra 21 or 16 Tahiti. Eliminator, Ultra, Commander, Ultamate- Warlock, Caliber 1, Aftershock, shit only a few people didn't splash it. If you remember back a few years, a couple of companies started their ENTIRE LINE on 21' Bahner bottomed boats. By the way, Crusader built the original cats that Hawaiian is now doing, remember the "Arabian" and the "Stallion", off shore boats? I'm talking gross numbers of boats sold, not at a given time, but over all the last 35+ years.
BigKat? I'm curious, what year did that hull orrignate out of Crusader? I had always thought that the west coast 20.5 open bows (Carrera, Commander, etc.) orriginated from the Advantage 20.5 Classic. Then when I look at that hull compared to a 79 Tahiti 20 that's sitting in my dad's driveway they're identical. I know for sure it's a dead ringer for the 92 Carribean 20.5 he had before and that boat was the same as the Advantage in terms of the bottom. I'm just curious, not being a smart ass. It'd just be interesting to know which was the chicken and which was the egg
Chris

[old rigger]

Hardin tooled up the old 20.5 when they owned the Tahiti name. Advantage bought a set of molds from them. That boat has nothing to do with the Howard 20.

[old rigger]

Kim Hanson,
never heard of a California Hot. Sorry.

[Kim Hanson]

Kim Hanson,
never heard of a California Hot. Sorry.
It was a shot, thanks..........( . )( . )............. :frown:

[Lake Ape]

What went on here? I'm lost....LOL!

[Kim Hanson]

What when on here? I'm lost....LOL!
You are on ***boat.......( . )( . )............

[old rigger]

I saw this today bigcatboat and thought of you. Looks like Crusader even got it's start by splashing the ol' Tahiti 16. Imagine that!
! http://www.craigslist.org/eby/boa/65621501.html