Boat damage (not pretty)

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

B's and 396; Many people on this board climbed in every orifice I had when I referred to the older, inexpensive hulls as Potato-chip hulls, this term was NOT coined by me. These are known in the industry as early boats, made by mostly now defunct companys, made to enter into the marketplace and get established as a builder. Less weight=more speed and less materials=more profits. As stated by a major manufacturer; "who knew these boats would still be around after 30 years, we didn't expect them to last 10 years". Thats not what they were "designed" for. As stated by Dan:this area looks to be only about 1/4" thick. Many boats that we have worked on are 1/2" or more in that area, including my step-kid's Hawaiian. With an ultrasonic thickness tester,(we have one), its easy to tell what you have before you get into trouble. Potato-chip=light layup, whether built for racing, or economy when building. TIMM
Hmmm very interesting..............

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

I'd kinda like to know what boats those in the industry today consider to be 'early boats' or 'potato-chip hulls'. My friend runs one of the busiest glass repair shops in so cal and does repairs for most of the players in todays boat building biz and I'm not the least bit impressed by what's being built today compared to what we did back in the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s. (unless you're crawling around a new Schiada) In fact you'd be hard pressed to find a better lay-up today when compared to what Spectra, Rogers, Howard, Hondo and so on, were doing 25 years ago.
I am, on the other hand, impressed by the materials being used today, very cool.
A 1/4 - 3/8 inch of glass in the area of damage to squirts boat, the outer lifting strake to the chine, is normal for almost any 18 foot boat built in the 70's. I built Hawaiians and I can guarantee you that they weren't 1/2 thick in that same area. Squirts lay up does look to be on the thin side though, a skin of 3oz, a layer of roving and another layer of mat would barley be 1/4 inch.
By the way, using a Hawaiian for an example of almost any kind is not the smartest thing to do.
I'd also steer clear of any builder who said "who knew these boats would still be around after 30 years, we didn't expect them to last 10 years". Thats not what they were "designed" for.
That's one of the stupidest things I've ever read on this board. Even Hawaiian boats, who was the first to finance boats for 15 years, had more vision than that.
The only thing the boats weren't designd for back in the day is the amazing amount of horsepower you lucky bastards have avalable to you now.
Thats real talk right there

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

B's and 396; Many people on this board climbed in every orifice I had when I referred to the older, inexpensive hulls as Potato-chip hulls, this term was NOT coined by me. These are known in the industry as early boats, made by mostly now defunct companys, made to enter into the marketplace and get established as a builder. Less weight=more speed and less materials=more profits. As stated by a major manufacturer; "who knew these boats would still be around after 30 years, we didn't expect them to last 10 years". Thats not what they were "designed" for. As stated by Dan:this area looks to be only about 1/4" thick. Many boats that we have worked on are 1/2" or more in that area, including my step-kid's Hawaiian. With an ultrasonic thickness tester,(we have one), its easy to tell what you have before you get into trouble. Potato-chip=light layup, whether built for racing, or economy when building. TIMM
HEy timm, Were you at the races last month?? If so what did you run????

[TIMINATOR]

Old Rigger: AGAIN,THAT WAS NOT MY STATEMENT about longetivity of the early boats. If you call me, I will tell you who said it. 623-877-8553 The conversation that that statement was made in was off the record. P.S. regarding your Hawaiian comment, refer back to my earlier statement about the sonic tester (ours is a "nuclear industry grade" Krautkramer-Branson). Also to the rest of the followers not in the boat industry; boats are laid up one at a time, often by different individuals within the same company, although frowned upon by the owners and foremen, different people laid up hulls their own way. The older boats have MANY variances from hull to hull. Blanket statements about specific older hulls can only be made if many of them are inspected from different eras. Also, do to the same quality control issues, most of the companys that had these issues are no longer in business. The speaker of the statement in question is. TIMINATOR

[TIMINATOR]

Shop backlog kept us away from the races, also we are opening a race/perf shop in Havasu, we have little free time for much of anything, although I did run Lake Pleasant last Saturday and Sunday. We had 3 boats there for testing. TIMINATOR

[moneysucker]

I know that my old 73 Tahiti was one of the thickest boats I have ever seen. I hit a big rock at night hard and barely scuffed the Metal flake. My 81 southwind drag tunnel is a very light lay up but nothing compared to the C&H hydro I had which was definately a potato chip hull. I have heard the Term Potato chip hull before but not in a really negative way. It was meaning a light/ race lay up, that is all. ANd with any light lay up boat, precautions must be taken when driving in conditions other than smooth water that they were designed for.

[old rigger]

P.S. regarding your Hawaiian comment, refer back to my earlier statement about the sonic tester (ours is a "nuclear industry grade" Krautkramer-Branson). Also to the rest of the followers not in the boat industry; boats are laid up one at a time, often by different individuals within the same company, although frowned upon by the owners and foremen, different people laid up hulls their own way. The older boats have MANY variances from hull to hull. Blanket statements about specific older hulls can only be made if many of them are inspected from different eras. Also, do to the same quality control issues, most of the companys that had these issues are no longer in business. The speaker of the statement in question is. TIMINATOR
Not true. Every company worth it's salt has a strict laminating schedule that's followed by every laminator for each set of molds. Materials are measured out along with resin and so on. If there's any variance between parts out of the same mold it's very minor and would only be the amount of resin left in the material, some laminators squeegee out more making for a stonger lay-up others leave a resin rich lay-up. This would never amount to an extra 1/4 inch in the area of question here, unless you're talking about using a chopper gun, which Hawaiian didn't (except for the tri-hulls). The only other variance would be a custom ordered lay-up which we did now and then, even at Hawaiian.
As for you statement of a laminator laying up a part 'his' way instead of following the schehule, he wouldn't last at any of the shops I worked at. It just doesn't happen unless you have a forman who doesn't possess a spine or an owner who doesn't care.
By the way, most shops that aren't around from back in the day, that might have these 'issues', were done in by the energy crunch of the late 70's, were sold off because the owner wanted to retire, went out of biz because the owner died, closed the doors because the market changed and they didn't want to change with it. I can only think of one or two that went out of bussiness because of poor workmanship. I can think of many though that should have gone out of biz for pooor workmanship. lol

[EXTREMEBOATS]

Boy has this post started some shit!!!! What ever you do use, make sure the prep work is right... I really dont see you ever going back to do it over.... If so I can only say you didnt take the time the first time. West, Poly,Vinal..... Every one has its place but they ALL will fix your boat....
Mike :argue:

[bp]

This would never amount to an extra 1/4 inch in the area of question here, unless you're talking about using a chopper gun, which Hawaiian didn't (except for the tri-hulls).
just out of curiousity, what kind of variances would have been seen using the chopper gun approach? from just talking to people, it seems like there's a lot of variation just in the weight of the same hull out of the same mold..

[TIMINATOR]

BP; true story. At many of the old (and still in business) hull mfgrs. most any variance could and still can be had, sometimes for extra cash, sometimes free. I do believe that there is one mfgr that ADVERTISES, we never build two boats alike! TIMM