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Thread: HTM Crash

  1. #21
    Something to throw out there. Steve and crew had hundreds, probably thousands of hours running 24' single engine rockets.
    Running a 30' twin engine rocket is a different animal. Safety equipment would have been critical. Would've been like driving a car in England after living in the US for 40-50 years.
    I think we've seen a good example of what not to do here. We don't have all the facts, but it seems evident that all of the clues point towards a situation of poor judgement and lack of experience in craft safety preparation.
    One of the questions asked by insurance companies for performance boat insurance is "How much time in comparable watercraft"?
    Running 24' single engine rockets may have made them feel like they could "Handle anything".
    It's a sad situation we hopefully all can learn from. Engage brains before starting engine(s).

  2. #22
    HauliAZZ, why would safety equipment be critical in a 30 and not a 24? and what makes you think that was the first time or first 30 foot boat that steve and ken had run.
    Theres nothing evident or any clues to anything so far that led to this tragic accident.
    How bout the best of parts can fail,engines blow,props throw blades,drives braking,a Fu*&kin bird hit him in the head.
    [This message has been edited by DMB (edited January 18, 2002).]

  3. #23
    I love how everyone becomes an expert on what NOT to do. Get off your soapbox, go to the corner of your room, stare at the wall and think about what you did that was wrong...and be quiet.
    Four men who loved boating died doing what they were passionate about. Enough second guessing and let it go. There isn't an expert among us who can say exactly what happened.
    Mr. Earnhart died last year in a tragic accident, who can say Dale wasn't an expert at racing? Shit happens, I have been riding motorcycles since I was a kid. I graduated to very fast street bikes, crashed a few times, and I am still here. When it is your time, it is your time.
    Space Shuttle, even the best engineered vehicle failed with HUNDREDS, even THOUSANDS of experts behind it.
    I can't believe adults bickering over what SHOULD have been done, or what COULD have happened. How would you feel if YOUR loved one had passed away and you were reading these boards...what would you be thinking?
    These men all had families and people that loved them that are now left alone and behind. We need to be thinking of these people. When I get my boat wet come spring in Havasu this year, I want to meet all these people I read about, and I want to see memorial stickers an the sides of everyone's boats.
    Anything over 100 on the water if f-ing fast, I have to respect anyone pushing the envelope. These people make the boats we all drive safer at any speed.
    In 1950 would anyone envision a Corvette,Viper,or liter class Motorcycles doing 200 mph stock? I think not.
    EVERYTHING we do in life is a risk, EVERYTHING. Some embrace it...

  4. #24
    Wsuwrhr, VERY WELL STATED!!!!

  5. #25
    I second that, very well said. Hope to meet you to...

  6. #26
    Who said safety equipment isn't a good idea for running blistering speeds in a 24'? What I said was, running a NEW craft (30' with twins) speeds RARELY seen made safety equipment CRITICAL. The 30' only debuted last year with a single engine (although Mills was a twin). Unless I've been asleep in a cave somewhere, you can count on 1 hand the 30's that have been built and none of them have been capable of chasing 150 MPH mark.
    I've owned flatties, jets and cats over the years. Every one of them took 100+ hours to become comfortable driving them. Several times I wore a rated PFD while testing.
    People come out of boats at blistering speeds all the time wearing jackets, brainbuckets and shorts and a great number of them wave to the cheering crowds.
    If anyone honestly says what happened last week was an example of safe boating (even from an R&D perspective), please post where & when you're going boating so I can go someplace else.
    I'm sure the results of the official investigation will be known in the coming months.

  7. #27
    "I'm sure the results of the investigation will be known in the coming months."
    EXACTLY! That is why I have not even attempted to introduce any theories concerning the cause of this tragedy. I'll admit to a few debates on the speeds these boats are attaining today; but at no time was I attempting to pinpoint this as a direct cause. If my posts came of that way, I sincerely apologize to the loved ones of our "boating brothers", as well as any of you on this board. It's sad that it takes something of this magnitude to get us talking about some of the things that have and are being discussed, but it's human-nature to put this kind of thing in the back of our minds with all the other stuff that "will never happen to me!".
    Now, on to my point of this post. The statement I quoted at the opening of this post says it all in volumes! I know it's natural to speculate as to the cause, but the only theory that will carry any weight here is are the results of the "official investigation". I blindly jumped in on the debates without much thought of how our speculating might affect those involved in this event or the fact that something taken either verbatim or out of context, could be misconstrued and detrimental to the findings of the cause of this tragedy. I think it is time for us to remember "our brothers" and stop the speculation. Talk among yourselves, but quit putting it out in the open air for everyone to read. Our words could be hurtful to more than just the loved one's of Steve, Ken, Chuck,and Nelson. God rest their souls and bless their loved ones.
    Please don't take this as a reprimand; it is not meant as one. Just a statement of MY feelings. Besides, who am I to reprimand any of you?
    HTMLady and the other loved ones, thank you for sharing your information and feelings with us. For many, it is the only viable connection to this occurrence. It takes alot of intestinal fortitude to step up and talk about this during your time of loss. Or as we might say on the water, "YOU GOT GUTS!"
    May God bless and always keep you in his heart! You surely will be in ours!

  8. #28
    Doug The Jeweler
    I believe you are wrong.The speculation and discussion are things rarely talked about in regular boating conversations.The speculation helps drivers and passengers to understand what can happen and to correct the problem before it becomes a problem.It is a real wake up call,also It gives all of posters time to grieve out loud about the people who lost their lives while boating.Do you think that the families are the only ones who might need to grieve about this.The main reason I put these post is to give an opportunity for anybody who needed to speak out and feel that they could contrubute their wisdom or to grieve out loud ,could do so.If you would like to silence your self as your way of grieving that is your privledge.So speculate away............Sincerely Doug TJ

  9. #29
    step up
    just a reminder they were going out testing new props!On tuesday or wednesday that boat ran 149 on a gps and what ken lane wife told me they had saftey gear on when they ran 149.Friday was just a fluke , i don't know if anyone has ever watched off shore racing.Dual motor boats is a different world when it comes to boats flipping.Lets all be thankful that all the bodies have been found and god bless everyone

  10. #30
    I guess my point wasn't taken so I'll explain it a little better.
    What happened was tragic to say the least.
    I have a performance rig that runs triple digits and have no desire to have ANYONE tell me how fast to go. I try to do it responsibly so I can enjoy it for many years to come.
    Sit down and ask yourself why there are so damn many speed, seat belt, PFD, etc,etc laws on the books????? It's because people get hurt in high profile crashes! AZ had a law on the books a few years ago called "Reasonable & Prudent" for highway speeds. The problem is too many people know what that meant and too many people got hurt. It got removed from the books!
    Let's not speculate. We'll just state what's known.
    We had 4 people in a boat not wearing PFD's or Helmets running a boat somewhere between 2-4 times the LEGAL speed limit on a short narrow lake during a high wind advisory. They aren't coming home again!!!
    You're absolutely right, plenty of people are going to read this board. They'll see plenty of posts (From the performance boat community)favoring pushing the envelope and flaunting danger. What happens next??????
    The Bureaucrats will decide we need more laws to protect ourselves from our lack of reasonable and prudent judgement. The speed limits will spread accross the waterways (Havasu)and next they'll put HP restrictions on boats, etc, etc. Wake up!!!!!!
    I don't want to trade my rig in for a pontoon boat, but if this is the image that we're going to promote, wait and see what happens.

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