complete re gel coat

[victorfb]

chris, mixing the duratec in with the pigmented gel may give you a better shine than just straight gel, i dont know. havent tried that. basically though the clear duratech would just delute the pigmented gel a bit. by mixing the two you will still need to sand and buff. gel goes on with a rough texture. (orange peel effect). the duratec by itself is self leveling and dries to a very clear shine. spraying it over a smoothed out surface would give you a paint like clear coat effect with no sanding or buffing. also with the added clear coat i am able to give that very small sparkle effect by adding an extremely fine flake. (not metal flake) its a glass flake that is basically transperant untill the sun hits it just right. hense the sparkle. this can only be done with clear coats, adding it in the pigmented gel would not allow the flake to shine. too opaque. there are agents you can add to gel to thin it out a bit which will be easier to spray with a smoother outcome, but i havnt heard of an agent that allows the duratec to surface through the gel if mixed together. duratec is basically a very highley refined clear gel coat, so it would be a waste to mix it with your pigmented gel (IMHO). the professionals ive talked with seem very knowledgeable and i would think they would have told me about it if they had such a product. there is an agent that must be used for the final coat which is basically a wax to seal the gel so it can dry completely. gel will not harden completely if exposed to the air. (O2) by the way, i use the term "duratec" somewhat loosely. duratec is a company name and may in fact make a product that by adding to pigmented gel allows it to dry to a smooth shiney surface. i just havnt heard of it yet. if you have that info i would be very much interested in getting it from you if you dont mind. thanks. good luck with your project, id sure like to see it.

[245 LIMITED]

i have been reading alot of the post reguarding re-paint useing gel. i have approx 12 years in auto car painting , so i have a slight idea. all of you seem very knowledgeable on this and its good to hear your " what works what dont"
my question is: i have a 25 ft chris craft 245 limited. very clean boat. i want to re-paint the sides and re gel the white top. over years you can see fading. i have tried to buff the sides but gave me a blotchy cloudy look , to a painters eye.. what products and brand names is best to use: ive seen lots but most are for large boats and appear to roll on like underside paint. where do you get the good stuff ? im in cal near lodi. any thing you gan give me hear tips on what grit to prep and final buff? thanks dudes

[flat broke]

Vic, this is what I have from Duratec's site:
Duratec Polyester Clear Hi-Gloss Additive Product No.
904-001
Gelcoat Repair
Use Duratec Polyester Hi-Gloss Additive to repair clear or pigmented gelcoated FRP parts. The end result is a low porosity, smooth, high-gloss, hard surface that is similar in appearance to the original gelcoat surface. Duratec Polyester Clear Hi-Gloss Additive will reduce subsurface porosity and orange peel, increase impact resistance, improve gloss retention and heat distortion temperatures.
Application Conditions
The surface should be clean, dry and free from oil, grease, wax or other contaminants. Ambient temperature should be in excess of 60F 16°C to ensure a rapid and complete cure. Time calculations are based on temperatures of 77°F, 25°C.
Surface and Product Preparation
Thoroughly sand the area to be repaired to a 80-180 grit finish.
Blend and mix completely equal parts of Duratec Polyester Clear Hi-Gloss Additive and the gelcoat required for the repair or overspray. Catalyze at 2 percent with mekP catalyst (20 cc per quart). Thin 5-10 percent if necessary to a desired spray viscosity with Duratec Lacquer Thinner 39LAC-1.
Application Procedure
Note: Spray pressures should be 35-50 psi. If a pressure pot is used, provide 10-15 psi pot pressure.
Spray the entire surface to be repaired with a fine mist coat and wait 2 minutes for the solvents to flash off. Follow with wet coats, overlapping the surrounding area to ensure complete coverage.
Note: Do not inhibit the cure by adding wax surfacing agents. The combined gelcoat and Duratec polyester Clear Hi-Gloss Additive will air cure to a hard, glossy finish in approximately 1-2 hours. (Apply forced-air heat for a 30-minute cure time.)
Lightly sand the repaired area with 320-800 grit sandpaper, either wet or dry, and buff to the desired finish, ensuring that the newly gelcoated area is blended with the surrounding gelcoat surface. Use Aqua-Buff 1000-W Fast Cut Compound and Aqua-Buff 2000 Compound/Polish to achieve swirl mark-free finish.
SAFETY PRECAUTIONS: Duratec Polyester Clear Hi-Gloss Additive is extremely flammable. Do not apply near sparks, open flame or heat. Keep area ventilated. Do not smoke. Avoid continuous breathing of vapor. Do not take internally.
http://www.duratec1.com/ag07.html
Mexrunner here on the boards used something similar and mentioned that you didnt need to use PVA to seal te job. I've been asking questions on this stuff for a while, but have yet to see a boat done w/the additive
BTW Duratec makes a top coat and the additive version and has the spec on their page. Either way I don't think it would have worked for you, since you needed a clear coat to suspend the glass flake in.
Chris

[victorfb]

Lightly sand the repaired area with 320-800 grit sandpaper, either wet or dry, and buff to the desired finish, ensuring that the newly gelcoated area is blended with the surrounding gelcoat surface. Use Aqua-Buff 1000-W Fast Cut Compound and Aqua-Buff 2000 Compound/Polish to achieve swirl mark-free finish.
Chris
thanks chris, thats probably a good product for what you are doing on your project. i am useing the 904-045. as you mentioned i need a clear finish coat to suspend the flake. the 904-001 seems to be more of an addative to help keep the sanding process to a minimum, but from what i understand you still need to sand and buff. i would definatly talk with wallygator to see if he thought the addative is a big plus. that stuff isnt cheap, but im betting its worth the high price tag. in my case i needed a clear coat to cover the wood inlay aswell, so i went the top coat route. the colors have been sprayed on the bottom and im hoping to spray the clear this afternoon, so ill let you know how it works out. it definatly looked real good in the motor well when i sprayed it right over the unsanded white gel. keeping my fingers crossed. thanks again for the info on the duratec addative though. i may try that on the next project that doesnt require the clear finish coat.

[V1800J]

Smokin'
Was your red base coat, white gel coat that was tinted? In other words, how did you color match the red base coat to match the top half? Also, how much material was needed for your hull?

[victorfb]

i know you werent asking me but i thought id just add this. you need to start with either a clear or regular base coat gel to add pigment. dont use white (unless thats the color your looking for). adding red pigment to white will give you pink. and you dont want to add much pigment either, pigments are not a product that actually hardens, it just colors, so the more pigment you add the weaker the gel. hope you dont mind me butting in.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Like victor said, if you tint white with the pigments, you get pastells. I made red per the instructions by tinting red in clear gel, atop which I sprayed the red flakes in untinted clear gel. If I recall correctly, a gallon of gel covers something like 110 sq ft to .010", which is pretty damn close to the surface area of the hull of an 18' v-hull boat. Between all the layers, I blew 4 gallons of gel along with 4 gallons of clear gloss additive, and about a 1/4 cup of styrene way (last layer), all a 1qt siphon gun load at a time. 8 gal of material.

[victorfb]

if your fast enough i hear you can use a pressure pot, but i wouldnt try it. i am slower than shiat. i also seem to be wasting a bit of material as the project goes on, but thats normal im sure. one life saver for me was to use a devilbis gravity feed gun with the bag inserts. ALOT less cleanup between coats. pull the bag, clean the gun and tip, and move on. im still going through quite a bit of acetone though. i cant think to wonder if the local home depot thinks ive got a meth lab going.

[flat broke]

Vic,
FourQ was using the clear coat like you are and had great results on the small stuff he was doing. It looked like he'd just need to block it with 1000 or so then buff. If you can, shoot some before/after pictures of the clear process. Some pics of the the last coat of gel before sanding, after sanding, after the top coat, and then after the top coat sanded or buffed.
Actually, I'd be okay with the thought of doing the topcoat on the top of my boat where I want to do a color change. I'll probably do the additive on the bottom where I'm not gunning for max shine anyhow. The only thing that scares me away from the topcoat a little would be longevity. I keep hearing of clears failing after a couple of years. I know there are exceptions, but I have to store my boat outside for the time being, so I don't want to be looking at this type of project again in a couple of years.
Talk to you later,
Chris

[V1800J]

Smokin'
How did you figure the amount of metal flake? Is it trial and error. On bass boats for example it looks really dense, whereas on my 1975 baja it looks slightly more spread out where the base coat is a little more visable.