How about a religious debate?

[centerhill condor]

let us pass on the debate over religion. How 'bout we take a live and let die approach to it.

[Kurtis500]

Please define materialism and naturalism in order to understand your statement. Evolution I understand. Thanks
Basically, it is a belief that the material/physical 'world' is all there is. It stems from a pre-big bang belief that the universe and all the laws of physics are un-changing and eternal. For example, it does not allow for the existence of conscience as a seperate entity from your physical brain, just as an example. Naturalism is a backbone belief of evolution. Only naturally known processes can be considered for somethings existence. I.e., no miracles. The theories go hand in hand, much like religious theories do.
Dont be scared guys, good dialogue can actually cause you/us to learn something. Just keep the hateful political crap out of it and have an open mind.

[Beer-30]

My wife was raised christian, but isn't real active with it. She believes in it, but I don't put forth any energy towards it. I am a see-it-to-believe-it guy.
I absolutely believe everyone has the right to believe in what they want and spend as effort toward it as they wish. As long as they don't bother me with it, it's all good.
If someone finds an ark with bones of 2 by 2 animals, I could believe. If some deceased family member started materializing and could tell me there was actually some type of after-life dealio, I could believe. If some power would all of a sudden come "down" and squash some of this war, terror, and terminal disease - I could believe.
However, I sure see proof, physical evidence, of cave drawings, spears, bones, and frozen cavemen. I recently had surgery on my tailbone, and did alot of research on it. Basically, it was our tail during evolution. It is de-generating with every generation. Your child's is shorter than yours; their children's will be shorter than theirs - etc.
So far, I have tested many of the myths with no result. I have said out loud that I don't believe. I have said many phrases and words that are supposed to get lightning strikes to hit you. No voltage thus far.
For me, there is just too much proof that we have evolved, and no proof of the other. I believe in taking care of my loving wife, my loving family, my friends and fellow boaters, and maintaining my career - that provides me a fun life.

[Kurtis500]

If someone finds an ark with bones of 2 by 2 animals, I could believe. If some deceased family member started materializing and could tell me there was actually some type of after-life dealio, I could believe. If some power would all of a sudden come "down" and squash some of this war, terror, and terminal disease - I could believe.
Seeing is believeing. Do you believe in things you cannot see? Is it unreasonable to believe that a person could be proven guilty of murder even though nobody was able to physically eyeball the event? Compiling a stream of evidence can re-construct past events. Evolution has asserted itself to explain the origins, yet does it fulfill this requirement to the extent that no other theory should be acknowledged?
However, I sure see proof, physical evidence, of cave drawings, spears, bones, and frozen cavemen. I recently had surgery on my tailbone, and did alot of research on it. Basically, it was our tail during evolution. It is de-generating with every generation. Your child's is shorter than yours; their children's will be shorter than theirs - etc.
I'm not sure how cave drawings and tailbones validate a theory. A real world explanation is in order, as well as evidence to back it up. The cambrian explosion presents a obstacle evolution has yet to address, even on the surface.
Over 100 (600+ lately) dissenters from Darwinism may have something to listen to. They are Ivy league proffessors and other scientists etc. Maybe they know something we don't?
So far, I have tested many of the myths with no result. I have said out loud that I don't believe. I have said many phrases and words that are supposed to get lightning strikes to hit you. No voltage thus far.
Not sure where that whole idea of getting hit by lightning comes from. Did you read that in the Bible?
For me, there is just too much proof that we have evolved, and no proof of the other.
The cambrian explosion, DNA, emergence of life from non-living matter are a few obstacles you place faith in which NO evelotionary theory or valid test have a single explanation for. If seeing is believing, you should see evolutions answer to the above questions before you believe it.
I believe in taking care of my loving wife, my loving family, my friends and fellow boaters, and maintaining my career - that provides me a fun life.
The American Dream

[Beer-30]

The American Dream
Out of all of that, this is the only real valid reply. You get to follow your beliefs. I get to follow mine.
God can sure come down here and get a job like the rest of us. He, she, it - has a right to the american dream just like you and me.

[Poster X]

God and traditional religion are very necessary. Some men have to have that fear of retribution, of the ultimate punishment, in order to do the right thing. Thank God <-- those people have religion. Others (I'm sure) are spirituralists and if there wasn't a God, they'd invent one. [I fall in there somewhere]. That's fine. However, the new (internet born) argument against carbon dating and evolutionary evidence only serve to detract from the believability of organized religion. It's faith based. I'd stay with that in lieu of arguing the fallacies of science in favor of immaculate conception, Noah's Ark, and other absurdities best left to the personal tenets belief affords. Before you get too upset I choose to believe there is a "thing" greater than the sum total of all parts of all men there has ever been. I just don't buy the traditional (or popular) Bible based religions. Parables are fascinating but if we've learned nothing, we've learned a common man can be shockingly accurate at predicting the future down to minute details based on the science of man and the inevitabilities of his character (or lack thereof).

[BOOGEYMAN]

Religin is for people who can't understand science.

[Beer-30]

Religin is for people who can't understand science.
I agree.
I have a friend who said/asked "so, you believe the bible was invented to keep the masses in order?"
I hadn't heard that before, but it is a completely logical explaination.

[77Woodbridge]

I just thank God that enough men and women believed in God to found this country so that people like you could enjoy the freedom to reject the fundamental beliefs of those that founded this country.
Economics aside. This country MUST be an english speaking, Christian society. The further we get from it the more de-evolved we become.
Can you honestly tell me that children - or adults should not salute the flag because of so called religous beliefs?
Don't be a pawn.
Have you served in the military, given to charities regularly (money or time), volunteer in your community, do anything to promote citizenship in your community? That means that your children are not menaces also.
It just seems to me that those that really contribute to this society understand the value of the Christian experience in America - agree or disagree.
I believe in God, hug a tree hugger until I catch him spiking a tree, fly my flag, tithe and tip 45% - I thank God that I am blessed enough to bless others, so I do so.

[77Woodbridge]

Oh and 1 last thing from a less than emotional response...why is it that atheist say that they are "good" people. They seem to always define their moral beliefs as some sort of divorced play on words with the 10 commandments.