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Thread: New guy here with needed opinions.

  1. #21
    God Why would you go Backwards with a Panther. A Axial Flow Jet (Panther) is a High Volumn Low RPM Pump. It is Utilized to Keep Water moving at a low pressure high volumn. Great Pump for what its purpose of Design and application. A Mixed Flow (Berkeley,Aggressor,American Turbine Style) is a High Pressure High Flow Pump and when put with RPMs it increases its efficiency. By the same token a Axial is designed to run in the 2300 RPM range and increased Rs
    Decrease the efficiency. The pump will not respond at the same ratio of power in thrust out, as a Mixed Flow Pump.
    Just my point of view. Sorry
    Very Well said ! ,Good explanation Pops Thanks ! Tom

  2. #22
    bp
    WOW I may sound like a total idiot here, as said b-4 all I have ever owned is the past were prop boats. POP's you just went totally over my pea brained sized head!
    a pump is designated axial flow because the flow of water is straight along the shaft. in a panther/jacuzzi y-j, to visualize, think of a propeller in an enclosed case, discharging through a single volute to increase velocity. in industrial applications, this design of pump is used to move hundreds of thousands of gallons per minute, but at low pressure.
    the term mixed flow is sometimes used in reference to both designs, for different reasons. regardless, the berk/amt/agg/etc. design is a single stage centrifugal design. with this type pump, water enters the suction side near the center (eye) of the impeller, and is centrifugally forced outward throught impeller vanes, converting energy into velocity energy. the bowl volute sections convert a large amount of this velocity energy into pressure energy. the only limiting factors for this design are in maintaining an adequate water supply and structural design (strength) of the components; in other words, more hp will equate to more flow at higher pressure/velocity. in the axial flow design, a high enough difference between suction and discharge pressure will achieve shutoff head - no matter what the hp is, if discharge pressure becomes too high, the pump will not overcome it and flow is substantially reduced.
    there are many different types and designs of centrifugal pumps. in an industrial use, the berk design is exactly the same as a pressurized water reactor's reactor coolant pumps, although an RCP is significantly larger. pump suction and discharge lines are 40", with discharge pressures in the neighborhood of 2200psi. each commercial pwr utilizes four of these pumps that are normally operated 24 hours a day for 20 months (if they are shutdown, the reactor must be shutdown).
    simply, since force (thrust) = mass x velocity, the berk type design is preferable in hipo applications because it will flow as much mass as is needed, while continuing to increase pressure/velocity. through the efforts of many people over the years, this design in jetboat applications has continued to be refined for both performance and efficiency.
    this is not to say that in the application you are looking at, the boat won't perform to satisfy your stated goals. but, to go beyond that for a higher performance objective, the axial flow pump will be the limiter.

  3. #23
    a pump is designated axial flow because the flow of water is straight along the shaft. in a panther/jacuzzi y-j, to visualize, think of a propeller in an enclosed case, discharging through a single volute to increase velocity. in industrial applications, this design of pump is used to move hundreds of thousands of gallons per minute, but at low pressure.
    the term mixed flow is sometimes used in reference to both designs, for different reasons. regardless, the berk/amt/agg/etc. design is a single stage centrifugal design. with this type pump, water enters the suction side near the center (eye) of the impeller, and is centrifugally forced outward throught impeller vanes, converting energy into velocity energy. the bowl volute sections convert a large amount of this velocity energy into pressure energy. the only limiting factors for this design are in maintaining an adequate water supply and structural design (strength) of the components; in other words, more hp will equate to more flow at higher pressure/velocity. in the axial flow design, a high enough difference between suction and discharge pressure will achieve shutoff head - no matter what the hp is, if discharge pressure becomes too high, the pump will not overcome it and flow is substantially reduced.
    there are many different types and designs of centrifugal pumps. in an industrial use, the berk design is exactly the same as a pressurized water reactor's reactor coolant pumps, although an RCP is significantly larger. pump suction and discharge lines are 40", with discharge pressures in the neighborhood of 2200psi. each commercial pwr utilizes four of these pumps that are normally operated 24 hours a day for 20 months (if they are shutdown, the reactor must be shutdown).
    simply, since force (thrust) = mass x velocity, the berk type design is preferable in hipo applications because it will flow as much mass as is needed, while continuing to increase pressure/velocity. through the efforts of many people over the years, this design in jetboat applications has continued to be refined for both performance and efficiency.
    this is not to say that in the application you are looking at, the boat won't perform to satisfy your stated goals. but, to go beyond that for a higher performance objective, the axial flow pump will be the limiter.
    Nice Bob !! Thanks !

  4. #24
    Delta Runner
    Ok I get it now... whew, that was an awsome translation.
    But here is the deal, I bought the boat.
    It has no where near the hole shot of any prop boat I have owed (ok maybe the 14'er I had when I was a kid), but the ride is great, the rig looks good, well mantained, and my family will be way more comfortable on the chop that is the San Juaqin river. I think I was running appox 55 @ 4500. I can only guesstimate by the cookie cutter 45mph ski rigs that were in my vicinity ( I figure I was pulling about 7-10mph more than them.
    I am taking it on a week long camping trip starting tomarrow, I will report to y'all on what I think after that.
    Thanx again to everyone for thier input.

  5. #25
    Delta Runner
    Well, I took it to the lake for 5 days, ran the pi$$ out of it, it runs very nice. Like I said b4 it isn't quick like what I am used to, but I think we will be quite happy with it.
    Cas, if you don't mind I will take you up on the Panther manual. (PM sent).

  6. #26
    Cas
    JJ,
    emails sent
    what lake did you go to and how was the water level?

  7. #27
    Delta Runner
    Went to Rollins lake, been going there for the last 10 years (same week every year), the levels have been consistant. I recommend it!

  8. #28
    Delta Runner
    JJ,
    emails sent
    what lake did you go to and how was the water level?
    Cas, all 5 things you sent me were executables, what should I use to open them?

  9. #29
    Cas
    Cas, all 5 things you sent me were executables, what should I use to open them?
    oh boy, you almost got me on that one as I never had anyone ask before
    I used Irfanview, you can get it free at http://www.irfanview.com/
    We used to spend a week at Rollins oursleves up until we started the Tower Park deals in 2001. We were going to move our week to June but we went to Shasta for the first time in 2002....been going there ever since. Rollins is an awesome little lake, especially during the week
    check out the Past Outings area on this link. There's a couple of pages from 1 of the Rollins Lake trips-
    http://www.laidbackboaters.com/id2.htm

  10. #30
    Delta Runner
    oh boy, you almost got me on that one as I never had anyone ask before
    I used Irfanview, you can get it free at http://www.irfanview.com/
    We used to spend a week at Rollins oursleves up until we started the Tower Park deals in 2001. We were going to move our week to June but we went to Shasta for the first time in 2002....been going there ever since. Rollins is an awesome little lake, especially during the week
    check out the Past Outings area on this link. There's a couple of pages from 1 of the Rollins Lake trips-
    http://www.laidbackboaters.com/id2.htm
    That worked, thanx a million. The laidbackboaters site is pretty cool by the way, I will check it out more later when I have more time.

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